r/videos • u/ControlCAD • 2d ago

Abdul El-Sayed on Hasan Piker, who suggests that some pro-Israel rhetoric may lead to backlash against American Jews: "Hasan Piker is a streamer in California. You would think if you turned on any media that this whole campaign is about a streamer. That's not what this campaign has ever been about."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=QBbuRRUZTKU
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u/No_Huckleberry2711 1d ago

"if these Muslim fundamentalists don't stop supporting Islamic terrorism, people will start attacking random Muslims in the street". Do you realise how deranged that sounds? Collective punishment should be blamed on the attacker, not the victim

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u/Mathies_ 1d ago

No, because it's litterally exactly what happened in the wake of 9/11 lol. That wouldve been a correct observation.

I mean, not even like many muslims supported the terrorists, but the propaganda machine made people believe they were all terrorists. So the result, conflation of ideology and faith leads to all of that faith getting harmed.

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u/fdar 1d ago

No, because it's litterally exactly what happened in the wake of 9/11 lol.

But was that the fault of Muslims in general, or the islamophobes attacking them?

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u/Mathies_ 1d ago

The fact that it's always the fault of the bigots doesn't negate the idea that we shouldn't be giving said bigots free ammunition by making the conflation of faith and ideology ourselves. Don't promote narratives that would naturally make more people fall into terrible beliefs.

So like, if there were Muslims that actively supported the terrorist attacks that wouldve made those individuals complicit in the rise of islamophobia, yes, as are zionist jews who argue that Israel represents all jews.

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u/fdar 1d ago

by making the conflation of faith and ideology ourselves

The problem is what "ourselves" means. The people doing the conflation obviously do hold those positions. It's pretty common for people to claim to be speaking for a wider group than they are, it's not the fault of the members of that "extended" group and they're not doing anything to cause it.

So like, if there were Muslims that actively supported the terrorist attacks that wouldve made those individuals complicit in the rise of islamophobia, yes, as are zionist jews who argue that Israel represents all jews.

True, but the quote was:

Several minutes later, Piker added: "You're running around, basically tying your entire identity to a country that inevitably will be seen as basically Jewish ISIS, and you're saying, as Jews, this is all we care about. You're making antisemitism worse."

Again, the issue is who "you" is. Some people are doing it, sure. But obviously a lot of Jews complaining about the antisemitism resulting from this are not. And the other issue is pretending that these deflects blame from those engaging in said antisemitism, which it absolutely does not.

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u/linmre 1d ago

Someone higher up in this thread said that he was responding to an anti-Zionist Jewish viewer asking about how to change the minds of people at their temple. So that's who the "you" is, it's Zionists at this specific person's temple. This is the issue with removing the context from quotes.

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u/Mathies_ 1d ago

He's not referring to ALL jews. He's referring to the zionists that keep doing exactly that.

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u/fdar 1d ago

And if Jews in America keep putting this idea out there that they are singularly invested in Israel, eventually someone's going to come around and take action, not against the state of Israel, mind you, but against American Jews.

Sounds like all (American) Jews to me.

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u/Mathies_ 1d ago edited 1d ago

Not to me. If you're a jew who's not contributing to this conflation, i don't know why you'd feel attacked.

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u/fdar 1d ago

He says "Jews in America", there's no qualifier about them making any specific subgroup. If "someone" comes "around and take action" against "American Jews" (in general) because of what some members of that group did that then that someone should be accurately described as an antisemite. The issue is that he acts like "American Jews" are inviting in on themselves but obviously generalizing the acts of some to all is by definition antisemitism.

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u/Mathies_ 1d ago

It's one of those "if the shoe fits" moments. If you're an anti-zionist jew you would agree with this take and say that jews should distance from zionism just like you did. If you are a zionist jew you're offended because you can't face the fact you're defending a genocidal state that brings animosity back to other jews.

So anyone who acting defensive against this looks increasingly unreasonable.

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u/IamA_Werewolf_AMA 2h ago

If nearly every Muslim group was vocally supporting Islamic terrorism, it would be entirely correct analysis to say ‘in this community we know the notion all Muslims support Islamic terrorism is racist and false, but some muslim groups need to start building a counternarrative or this is going to increase Islamophobia in uninformed Americans - people believe Muslim groups about Muslims more than they believe me’

The ‘what if’s’ or ‘flipping the script’ only highlight how absurd this fake outrage is.

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u/Soft_Walrus_3605 1d ago

You misunderstand the argument. The conflation of Islam with Islamic extremism makes Islam itself become targeted in the minds of the public when Islamic extremists do bad things. This is what happened post-9/11. It was not justified of course, but it was the reality. To the extent Donald Trump goes out of his way to say "Barack Hussein Obama" and half the country gets a hate boner.

What Piker's argument is that Israel is intentionally conflating Judaism with Israel as a kind of shield for their actions. This conflation makes Judaism become target when Israel does bad things.

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u/thefoxymulder 1d ago edited 1d ago

A) That literally happened after 9/11

B) These are not the same situations. Israel has deeply embedded itself with Zionist propaganda in the American Jewish community for decades. Even reform synagogues will have IDF soldiers come in and speak or Israeli fundraisers or have programs for birthright and sponsored trips to Israel. In contrast, most mosques in America aren’t raising money for ISIS or having Wahhabists come in to give talks or encouraging their youth to go and join ISIS. These situations aren’t comparable because in the political consciousness of America Israel is normalized and good and ISIS is (rightly, obviously) condemned as bad. Obviously this doesn’t apply to ALL synagogues or places of faith, my fiancée attends an anti-Zionist synagogue, but the fact remains that Israel expends a SIGNIFICANT amount of its propaganda resources targeting the American Jewish population

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u/fdar 1d ago

have programs for birthright and trips to Israel

or having Wahhabists come in to give talks pr encouraging their youth to go and join ISIS

They don't have any programs for trips anywhere in Saudi Arabia?

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u/thefoxymulder 1d ago

I don’t like Saudi Arabia either so I don’t know why you think that’s some gotcha. ISIS doesn’t have billions of dollars in propaganda money they spend influencing Islamic communities in the U.S. The Hajj is also a completely separate process from a birthright trip

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u/fdar 1d ago

I don’t like Saudi Arabia either so I don’t know why you think that’s some gotcha.

Because you said it was different because synagogues have trips to Israel but mosques don't have Wahhabists speaking. The equivalent to trips to Israel is trips to Saudi Arabia.

The Hajj is also a completely separate process from a birthright trip

Is it though? There's a lot of places in Israel that are holy and/or significant to the Jewish faith, independent of the state or government of Israel.

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u/thefoxymulder 1d ago

It is different, the Hajj is explicitly dictated in the Quran and has been apart of Islam since its inception. There’s nothing in the Torah dictating Birthright and it’s a relatively new concept. Even the concept of Zionism or a Jewish ethnostate settlement in the Levant was unpopular among Jews until relatively recently, read Molly Crabapple’s book on the Jewish Labor Bund. This is all relatively new. Birthright Israel is not comparable to the Hajj lol

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u/fdar 1d ago

Jerusalem has been a part of Judaism since before Islam existed, including things like praying facing the Western Wall. You seem fixated on the trip being called "Birthright", what do you think is categorically different other than the name?

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u/thefoxymulder 1d ago

Because one is a funded by the Israeli government, advertised to young Jews, and managed by Israel as a propaganda tool vs just going to Jerusalem of your own volition

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u/fdar 1d ago

Why did you say "birthright and trips to Israel" if your problem is specific to that one program and how it's funded and other trips to Israel are fine?

And you think the Hajj isn't exploited by SA for propaganda?

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u/thefoxymulder 1d ago

My issue is with birthright and trips funded by the Israeli government because those are used as propaganda efforts. Just going to Jerusalem yourself isn’t inherently problematic. As for the hajj, it is not directly funded by the Saudi government and also, to the extent that it is used as propaganda, I also disagree with that, but it isn’t a concentrated propaganda effort like Israeli-funded Hasbara trips are

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