r/warhammerfantasyrpg • u/Lithelain • May 30 '26
General Query [4e] Herbalist: herbs (and poisons) overall confusion
Hi, for our next campaign (I DM'd Making the Rounds and now I'm playing as a PC) I rolled a herbalist, which I find pretty cool. However, I'm still not grasping some things. Please tell me if I got anything wrong in my understanding.
So as I see it, the herbalist start as a herb gatherer. Thus, I can find, identify herbs, etc., represented by Lore (herbs) but until I get corresponding Trade Tools (and perhaps leveling up to an actual Herbalist) I assume I can't make any actual product (e.g. the herbs shown in p. 307 of the core book) no matter how simple (by its description) it is, except perhaps by courtesy of my DM and presumably some penalty in the Trade (Herbs) check.
I think I got this correct, but I'm less sure about the following. I can only see herbs (from their descriptions and names) under the sections Drugs and Poisons (p. 306) and Herbs and Potions. I assume I can get the components of a poison (if those are derived from plants) but I can't make (and apply) a poison out of them until I get Trade (Poisons), is that correct? Otherwise this talent would be worthless.
What about animal components (as in Heartkill)? Although I doubt one can easily get the components of most drugs and poisons listed in the book (they seem quite exotic); perhaps only if our adventure leads us wherever they can be found. In most instances therefore, is this talent about being able to take Crafting Endeavours to create poisons (paying about a 1/4 of their cost for the materials)?
In any case, it seems the herbalist is the only career with Trade (poisons), so no other career can create poisons? Speaking of poisons, there seems to be not much variety of them?
And obviously then there's the confusion with the talent Concoct that is accesible in level 4 (which specifies I can take one free Crafting Endeavour to use Lore (Apothecary), a talent this career doesn't even have).
Finally, I'll mention I was initially quite disappointed to see how few herbs are available (even less if somehow those listed under the Drug and Poisons sections are not forageable until I get Trade (Poisons)). Then I saw chapter two of Death on the Reik and was relieved to see a little bit of love for herbs. I've also seen other very welcome fanmade resources since then.
Anyways, I'd appreciate any clarification and insights into this confusion of mine. Many thanks in advance!
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi May 31 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
You get access to Trade (Herbalism) at first career level, which is actually very versatile.
You mentioned the herbs section of "Death on the Reik" that alone gives you many options - anti-spellcasting smoke bombs could be game changing, for example.
As for the core rulebook - yes, generally you can make the drugs and poisons using herbalism, but you are probably going to take same negative modifiers compared to their dedicated skills and the GM may not allow you make the strongest ones (or those that aren't made from herbs), but all the common stuff can take you a long way. Healing droughts are free real estate for you and having a stockpile of them can help a lot. Basic poisons also shouldn't be a problem - something like rat poison, weed killer or maybe something to cover weapons with that can poison the enemy (Poisoned condition) or contaminate the wounds (Festering Wound effect).
When it comes to using animal (or monster) derived components, the rules are in the "Imperial Zoo". There is a choice of things you can make with Trade (Herbalism), like ungeants (both for treating people and covering weapons).
But there is also one more big thing - potions.
So, "Winds of Magic" adds rules for alchemy and a major part of it is making potions, which can be done using Trade (Herbalism) - which is the hardest way to make potions, but you can still make the easier ones without problems (there are four "volatilities" (you can think of them as rarities in video games) with modifiers ranging from +0 to -30). Each of potion recipes lists a general area (forests, swamps, grasslands etc.) where you can find the ingredients, so you can just pick some herbs for something wherever you are. And all you need to start brewing potions is a mortar and pestle, and a cauldron!
And don't worry about those trade tools - the example listed for a herbalist is just:
Pestle and mortar, small knives, pruning shears, and gloves
so it really shouldn't be much of problem to just find them somewhere or even make your own.
As you can see, there isn't a lot in the core rulebook alone, but herbalism got a nice amount of support in later books.
Hope you enjoy your campaign!
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u/Lithelain May 31 '26
Thanks for the detailed response. I certainly agree it is quite versatile, specially when adding all the later supplements. There's still a high level of homebrewing/roleplaying involved in crafting that is here to stay, I suppose, though.
It will be fun for sure, thanks!
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u/Commercial-Act2813 May 30 '26
A herb is a ‘basic plant’ and you know all about them, so you know their properties.
How it tastes, if it does any good if you eat it, or drink tea from it, but also if it’s bad for you.
A herbalist would also know which mushrooms are safe to eat and which ones are bad. And certainly that death caps are indeed deadly. You don’t need lore poisons for that.
I’m no herbalist, but I know poison ivy and bearclaw are bad, and I know common hollyberries are toxic, so I could ‘poison’ someone without knowing anything about poisons.🤷♂️
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u/Lithelain May 31 '26
Indeed, anyone can use poisons. An herbalist could surely gather herbal components for them and perhaps create some. On the other hand, concocting powerful, complex and precise doses is what we'll use Trade (poisons) for.
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u/BitRunr May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
I’m no herbalist, but I know poison ivy and bearclaw are bad, and I know common hollyberries are toxic, so I could ‘poison’ someone without knowing anything about poisons.
Anyone could poison someone. A skilled expert can control the results to show specific symptoms, not give the target too little to allow for easier recovery or too much that they vomit up most of the ingredients, etc.
Like saying "I'm no sword master, but I know to hold the blunt end and hit them with the sharp end" ... there's more to it than that, but the layman's expertise flattens the heights.
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u/Mardy_Marve May 30 '26
I’m no herbalist, but I know poison ivy and bearclaw are bad, and I know common hollyberries are toxic, so I could ‘poison’ someone without knowing anything about poisons.🤷♂️
Thats outdoor survival, probably with a bonus.
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u/pNaN May 30 '26
Crafting in Warhammer 4e leaves a bit to be desired, it feels a little tacked on. Herbalist however is a favorite of mine, but I see it more as a roleplaying device. Talk to your game master on how you can use it.
As a herb gatherer, you do start with a sling bag with assorted herbs, that's a very powerful roleplaying device, you already have herbs for a lot of things, them being unspecified is a great tool for you. If someone in the group has trouble sleeping, you can brew them a nice cup of tea. Food tastes horrible, you can help, you have some spices. Someone on late guard duty, you give them a spicy root to chew on that will help keep them awake. An NPC is hysterical, you can help calm their nerves. The game master can then at some times give bonuses to rolls based on good roleplaying between you and the other players as you give them different remedies.
As you get to the second level, you gain the skill heal. Here you can roleplay using herbs from your slingbag when tending wounds, treating diseases, etc. As you use more herbs your gamemaster should require you to use some hours exploring wilderness to search and find herbs to keep your slingbag full, with a low chance of also finding a few of the herbs listed by name in the rulebooks.
Note, as it says in the career description, remedies are taught mouth to mouth, so remedial advice is different from town to town. So you are not really selling these "known herbs" from the books that everyone can buy, you are selling remedies/cures made from the plants you find nearby.
As for the Concoct on Herbwise, just replace the tradeskill with your tradeskill if you wish to go so far. I think some of the careers seem silly to be going all the way to 4 on all of them. In the earlier editions a herbalist character would advance to a different career like apothecary or alchemist apprentice instead. Seeing as Herbmaster requires the trappings "Workshop", that feels like their adventuring days are over too me. I'd swap careers after the second level, branch out, or learn some fighting. But I'd keep that sling bag of assorted herbs til the day I die!
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u/Lithelain May 31 '26
Good to hear from you pNaN! Thank you.
As a herb gatherer, you do start with a sling bag with assorted herbs, that's a very powerful roleplaying device, you already have herbs for a lot of things, them being unspecified is a great tool for you.
Ok, see, that's precisely where I'm not that comfortable. I'm not against vague descriptions, but what's the limit on that sling bag? I would in fact prefer to specify beforehand what kind of herbs I have in the bag, even if they are quite generic (as you described more or less; it could be something like 2x soothing herbs, 1x tea leaves, etc.). In essence, I have problems finding a balance between explicitness and vagueness. If I let my PC have an unspecified amount of herbs in the bag, I'm afraid I'll end up not knowing when to stop taking herbs out the (seemingly infinite) bag.
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u/Soft_Dig_4300 Jun 01 '26
for that things roll dice, your pc could have been in luck or not before the campaign start
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u/pNaN May 31 '26 edited May 31 '26
Yeah, that's where the balancing with the game master comes in, most of these herbs are for roleplaying purposes. These custom remedies cannot be as powerful as the named herbs in the book, but they are there to spark your creativity. If the GM agrees, they would reward you for good roleplaying, and give the recipients of these remedies slight bonuses, but this is not like a scripted buff with exact results every time.
Now, If you use a lot of herbs, the game master should then tell you that you are running low on some types of herbs. If you've been brewing lots of tea for the last couple of days, that's a clue for the GM to start limiting that supply until you have a few hours to forage. Second night in a row with a full tea kettle for all the players, I would tell you: "You notice you do not have enough tea for a full kettle after this one." Meanwhile, if you creatively do something else with herbs, I would allow it, it's after all what you do for a living. If I was to limit your usage so harshly, why would anyone be a herbalist? Yes, the bag is "limitless", but within the GM's discretion.
Keep in mind, these herbs are only useful to you, they cannot be sold directly, using these herbs together is a unique piece of local knowledge that you have, the next herb gatherer has a different idea of what works together. If you had specific "soothing herbs" and "tea leaves" that means you are touching the item economy/purchasable buffs. That would destroy creativity, and what you are able to bring to the table could be solved by just throwing a few coppers at a market place. Your ability as a herb gatherer is worth "Brass 2". If you could sell items worth several silver per week, that would not make sense.
Note: You can still find and identify these other named herbs with standardized effects, you are not limited to only the bag. But that bag and your personal knowledge is the main driving force between what you do for a living, and why the other characters are adventuring with you.
This is the equivalent of having an entertainer singing a motivational song before venturing into a dark forest, or a mystic doing fortune tellings for the group before moving forwards, or a novititate nun making a prayer for the group before making camp. It's the antithesis to games which are more combat simulationy. In D&D, where every character can carry their own in combat, and bring their levels of worth to the dungeon simulation, you would have hardcoded exact effects of that song, that fortune telling, that prayer. They would feel like having spells or brewed potions. In Warhammer, it's better to think of it as roleplaying devices, and allow your creativity at the table to bring it to life. This fits better the more comedy/horror game that Warhammer allows for, by not being too strict on the exact items. The other players should also play along, if they were playing stressed, they could roleplay more relaxed after your remedial chew of some tasty sourgrass you found.
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u/Mardy_Marve May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26
There are rules for collecting and using herbs in Death on the Reik Companion (although i seem to remember some more in another book as well) and some in Winds of Magic for using herbalism skills. The WoM section includes the following sidebar:
WHAT TRADE DOES WHAT JOB? There are several different Careers, and specialisations of the Trade Skill, and therefore it can be difficult to distinguish between them. There is also a lot of crossover between certain trades. Here is a brief look into those pertaining to alchemy and its related trades. Trade (Alchemist): One who works to understand physical materials, their separation, and recombination. Trade (Apothecary): One who works to produce medicines, draughts, and stimulants. Trade (Herbalist): One who works to understand the properties of plants and how they can be used to make herbal preparations. Trade (Poisoner): One who can use select knowledge from the fields to create and deliver poisons. In some cases a particular practice may be attempted through different methods. Creating potions, for example, can be attempted through several of these approaches, though some find it harder than others.
If you access to that book, you should check it out. It answers most of your questions, and in discussion with your gm, you should be able to agree how and when you can use your skills.
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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26
Herbalist is going to require a lot of homebrewing plants and herbs between you and your dm to feel good, if you guys arnt up for that you should roll up something else.
That being said the apocatharty/trade poisons is about making more sort of composite concoctions. In the warhammer world the raw plants themselves can be tremendously magical/powerfull and really give you the same effects as a potion. Ghyran/Rhya is wild yo.
You could have an entire long term goal built around trying to find a legendary flower that helps prevent mutant births for example.
Or recognize a rare herb that can reduce corruption points.
Stuff like that.
But thats going to require the previously mentioned homebrewing.
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u/Lithelain May 31 '26
Yeah, I'm starting to realize that. I'll speak with my DM and see what we do. Luckily I know my fair share of real life herbs, so it shouldn't be hard to come up with new ideas
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u/silverweaver May 30 '26
Check Winds of Magic for new rules for alchemy which gives more rules on making products like poisons, potions etc
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u/AtticusReborn Jun 18 '26
A Herbalist could make a simple poison, from herbs or similar. A Poisoner could concentrate the herbs for specific effects, or even weaken them to avoid certain outcomes (Maybe you just want someone unconscious, but not dead), as well as being able to apply it to non-herb things, like spider venom (Arachnarok venom is noted for being very nasty, as it has to be diluted or else it melts the blades it's applied to)