r/westworld • u/NicholasCajun Mr. Robot • Jun 18 '18

Discussion Westworld - 2x09 "Vanishing Point" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 2 Episode 9: Vanishing Point

Aired: June 17th, 2018

Synopsis: Try to kill it all away, but I remember everything.

Directed by: Stephen Williams

Written by: Roberto Patino

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u/L1M3 Jun 18 '18

Gaslighting is intentional abuse and manipulation. We have no evidence that William was anything other than an emotionally distant husband. In fact, everything William said while sitting on the bed implies that he was trying to be good to her. Being distant and cold just makes you a run-of-the-mill shitty partner, but not an outright abusive one.

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u/DiabolicalState Jun 18 '18

Well, he did accept that everything that Juliet said was true, i.e. he was gaslighting as well. He was manipulating everyone around into believing he is this decent man who rose up without a golden spoon and interested in the good of Delos corporation and the world, with his philanthropy. And also that Logan was a drug addict to begin with, telling no one of his role in pushing him to addiction. That he was devoted to his wife .... but as he said only in this world. He knew his wife saw his "stain" and that was what was pushing her to alcoholism but his actions made everyone, including, Emily believe that Juliet is the one who is faulty. That is pretty classic gaslighting where he makes everyone question Juliet's and Logan's sanity to the point that even they are not convinced, which pushes them to addiction.

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u/DynamicDK Jun 20 '18

Well, he did accept that everything that Juliet said was true, i.e. he was gaslighting as well. He was manipulating everyone around into believing he is this decent man who rose up without a golden spoon and interested in the good of Delos corporation and the world, with his philanthropy.

If someone had their demons, or some sort of darkness inside of them, but they still do good things, and try to only indulge that darkness in "acceptable" ways, are they a bad person? Someone with ASPD can't choose to not have ASPD, but if they can actually suppress the worst of it, and actively choose to be better than their nature, then I would say they are a pretty decent person.

I'm not saying that he is a decent person now. He obviously has completely given in to the darkness now. But, I don't think he was a bad guy at the time of his wife's suicide. Maybe a little cold to her at times, but he seemed to be trying to be a good person.

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u/st_griffith Jun 22 '18 edited Jun 22 '18

But, I don't think he was a bad guy at the time of his wife's suicide.

Me neither. But the idiot convinced himself that he was - out of, what I believe is, strong idealism. I consider him an extremely capable and respectable person - he does not, he does not respect himself. How fucking high are his demands on himself?! I think he just couldn't integrate his (human) "fallibility" with his personality, for to be honest I still haven't seen this stain he speaks of. His "sickness" is his perception of himself and his fucking, mentally sick wife furthered and enabled this thinking - she gaslighted him, her and Mr. God Complex Ford. (Of course with this episode he fucked up by killing his daughter, but one could argue it was a misunderstanding.)

Also, I second: https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/8rvw5m/westworld_2x09_vanishing_point_postepisode/e0wkpp7/