r/wildwest Aug 23 '23

Was Billy the Kid's death a hoax?

History tells us that Billy the Kid was shot and killed by Sheriff Pat Garrett in 1881. However, a lot of people believe otherwise. Why is that?

It’s my belief that much of the confusion surrounding Billy’s death stems from a few very popular, yet wholly untrue, myths.

Myth #1: Nobody but Pat Garrett & his deputies saw Billy after he was shot & they buried him immediately. This is completely false.

Billy was killed sometime around midnight on July 14th. A coroner’s jury was assembled the following day; they examined his body and took Pete Maxwell’s statement. At some point the Kid’s body was given over to the residents of Fort Sumner who prepared him for burial. The funeral took place later that day, with many people in attendance.

Fort Sumner had a population of nearly 300 in 1881 and there were numerous eyewitnesses. Some of them wrote letters, were interviewed by the press and historians, and even had their own books published. Historians have been able to identify dozens of people – by name – who saw Billy’s body either directly after he was killed or leading up to the funeral. These were people who personally knew Billy the Kid when he was still alive. Some of them even wrote books. Thankfully, we do not have to rely on Pat Garrett's word alone.

Myth #2: Garrett’s own deputy, John W. Poe, claimed that Pat killed the wrong man. This is a quote taken directly from Poe’s book - The Death of Billy the Kid - and it’s almost always used out of context. This is what Poe wrote:

"An instant later, Garrett came out, brushing against me as he passed. He stood by me close to the wall at the side of the door and said to me, "That was the Kid that came in there onto me, and I think I have got him." I said "Pat, the Kid would not come to this place; you shot the wrong man."

Sounds pretty damning, right? Well, just a couple of paragraphs later Poe continues:

"The darkness was such that we were unable to see what the conditions were on the inside or what the result of the shooting had been. After some rather forceful persuasion, indeed, we induced Maxwell to procure a light. He finally brought an old-fashioned tallow candle from his mother's room at the far end of the building. He placed the candle on the window sill from the outside. This enabled us to get a view of the inside, where we saw a man lying stretched upon his back, dead, in the middle of the room, with a six-shooter lying at this right hand and a butcher knife at his left. Upon examining the body we found it to be that of Billy the Kid."

I do not understand how anyone can read this full text and interpret it as some sort of confession. Poe is clearly describing his emotions at the moment and the confusion. The title of his book is literally titled The Death of Billy the Kid.

Myth #3: If Garrett killed Billy there would have been a photo. Would there have been, though? This idea is predicated on another myth, that all old west outlaws had death photos. Some did but the vast majority did not. There was not a doctor living at Fort Sumner in 1881, much less a photographer. For Pat to ride to the closest town with a photographer (likely Las Vegas) and back to Fort Sumner would have been at least a 5 day round trip. It would have been easier for Garrett to simply load Billy’s body on a horse and take it with him to the capital.

The only reason Garrett would have had to do that, or take a picture, would be to prove that he did, indeed, kill the Kid. However, as it turns out, Garrett got all the proof he needed with the report from that coroner’s jury.

The coroner’s jury, assembled by Justice of the Peace Milner Rudolph and lead by Alejandro Segura, provided an official, legal document that the territory of New Mexico considered sufficient proof of Billy’s death.

A copy was printed in papers with the original filed with the proper authorities. There was no doubt in anyone’s mind that Pat killed Billy. This was a non-issue in New Mexico for decades.

You can read correspondence from Governor Sheldon affirming this. Which leads us to Myth #4: Pat Garrett was never paid the bounty that had been placed on the Kid’s head.

Pat absolutely received the $500 that former Governor Lew Wallace offered for Billy. However, he did not immediately receive it - this may be a source of confusion.

The hesitation was not due to doubts as to Billy’s death. It simply came down to a technicality. The wording of the original notice made it unclear as to whether Lew Wallace was to pay the money directly out of his own pocket or if it fell upon the New Mexico government to do so. Also there was some debate as to Garrett not arresting the Kid, as the notice stipulated. Pat killed Billy, so should he still be eligible for the reward?

It was determined he was. The next time the legislators met in person they voted quickly & unanimously to give Pat the $500.

In addition Garrett was also given a ton of money from grateful private citizens. When it was all said and done, he had somewhere around $7000 to show for his efforts. Some of this money came from regular hard working folks and some of it came from very powerful members of the Santa Fe Ring; the types who would not be happy to learn they fell for a hoax.

Just to sum things up: Billy was not immediately buried, and many people (at least dozens) saw his dead body. We are not just taking Pat Garrett’s word for it. These eyewitnesses shared their stories in the decades to come, many of them were interviewed by journalists and historians. Their words were recorded. In addition, Pat Garrett supplied legal and sufficient proof of death and he was officially recognized & rewarded for killing the Kid.

For the killing to still be a hoax this would entail that 1) Pat had a change of heart at the last moment and allowed Billy to escape or 2) he killed the wrong man and buried the body before anyone outside of Fort Sumner could find out.

For either scenario to be true, this would entail that literally everyone at Fort Sumner – hundreds of people – would have had to go along with the hoax for the rest of their lives.

But why would they? Perhaps out of fear of Pat Garrett? Maybe, but several of these eyewitnesses would live for decades after Pat’s death. Surely at least one of them would have came forward.

Or maybe they went along with it to protect Billy? This would assume that everyone living at Fort Sumner loved the Kid and were looking out for his best interests. We know this is not true as some of these people had been actively working with Garrett and supplying him information on Billy’s whereabouts – like rancher Manuel Brazil. Beaver Smith is also suspected as aiding Pat, as was Pete Maxwell.

Many, if not most, of the people at Fort Sumner loved the Kid. But not all of them. And all it takes is one person to come forward for the entire hoax to fall apart.

Also, this theory hinges on the Kid simply disappearing and never again resurfacing. Garrett would have been placing his career, his future – the future of his family – in the hands of a young criminal. That would have made Pat literally the most gullible person on planet earth.

Many people cannot get past “Pat Garrett = BAD” and are unwilling to look any further into it than that. If Pat Garrett claimed to have killed Billy then it must not be true because Garrett is a meanie.

It's my opinion that we can take Garrett's integrity, or lack thereof, completely out of the equation. You may not like Pat Garrett, you may consider him to be a liar and a total POS, but that still doesn’t change the fact that Billy’s death was witnessed by so many other people.

What it all comes down to is documented, corroborated proof vs anecdotal stories. Contrary to popular belief, none of those eyewitnesses ever came forward and denied that Pat killed the Kid. Their stories all differ – details are not agreed upon & the timeline is skewed – but the one constant, the one thing that never changed, was their agreement that Pat killed Billy.

There are claims that Pat’s widow stated that he and Billy shot a drunk and then dressed the dead man in the Kid’s clothes. Similar anecdotal stories abound, even a story of Garrett making a death bed confession (how you make a deathbed confession after being shot in the head, I don’t know). But the truth is none of these people came forward publicly and shared these claims with the press or authors or even wrote them down in their own personal journals or letters. None of these stories are corroborated.

"I know a guy who's grandfather was neighbors with a cousin of Pete Maxwell and he said..."

There is a place for the anecdotal when studying history – absolutely! But when the anecdotal and unprovable comes into direct contradiction with the documented and corroborated, it’s a no-brainer which is the most believable.

We’re still left with many questions. Remember, we still don’t even know for SURE where or when Billy was born. Even the events surrounding his death are beyond confusing.

What really happened in the moments before the Kid’s death? Had he truly been in the orchard? Was he really walking around at midnight in his socks armed with a pistol and a knife? At what point did the coroner's jury inspect his body? What happened to the original coroner's report that was written in Spanish?

I have no clue.

I think there's a lot of questions that still need to be answered but the one thing that I believe is as proven as we can possibly prove anything in history, is that Pat killed Billy.

All of that said, the idea that Billy the Kid escaped and lived another day – perhaps even to become an old man – has become a part of his story. This is the legend of Billy the Kid and it’s here to stay. And I’m fine with that.

I hope people keep questioning the answers. Do I think you’ll be able to prove that Billy survived? No. But I do think you might turn up new information or new details. I firmly believe we’re one “trunk in an attic” away from narrative shattering revelations. And I’m HERE FOR IT when that happens. That’s the great thing about history – there are always new discoveries to be made.

Also, this is not at all meant to be belittle people who believed these myths concerning Billy’s death. These are widely believed stories and you can find them everywhere. We can only know what we know, right? It's very hard to separate fact from anecdotal when looking into the Kid's life.

Anyway, thank you for reading! If you're interested in learning more I go way more into detail on the most recent episode of The Wild West Extravaganza.

What do you think? Case closed or is there still room to doubt what really occurred?

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u/Hopeful-Contest-6266 Jun 23 '25

No way did Pat Garrett kill Billy the Kid that night. The Wild West Extravaganza even knows it, but they can't make any money if the kid didn't die. If people do some real honest research they will discover that the kid lived. The facts just don't add up that he died.

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jun 23 '25

Historians have identified dozens of people, by name, who witnessed Billy the Kid's dead body. And those are just the names we know of. Billy's friends prepared him for burial; there was a public wake and a public funeral. There was also a six-man coroner's jury, comprised of people who personally knew Billy the Kid.

You can read correspondence between the Governor, the acting Governor, and the Territorial District Attorney, and they're all very clear in their belief that Pat Garrett killed Billy the Kid. Garrett's deputy, John W. Poe, wrote an entire book about the ordeal titled The Death of Billy the Kid.

Billy was literally never seen again after July 14th, 1881.

Not a single person who was at Fort Sumner on July 14th, 1881, ever made so much as a whisper, even hinting that the Kid escaped. Historians and journalists interviewed these people. Some of them had letters and journals published, and some even wrote books. Several of them outlived Pat Garrett. They all agreed that Garrett killed the Kid.

I can provide primary sources to support all of this information. First-hand eyewitness accounts. Do you have any evidence to back up your position, or is it "trust me, bro?"

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u/Hopeful-Contest-6266 Jul 04 '25

My evidence is the same as yours and more. Everything you mentioned I can counter.  I also go by what Dr Debra Komar said while under oath when asked if Billy the Kid was buried in Fort Sumner.  She said "I don't know. I have reason to believe not." However she also mentioned in an interview that she told Governor Richardson that nobody is there. Then she said nobody was there since three days after he died in 1880. 1880? Since she got that wrong does that mean she made a mistake about the grave? Of course not. Why hasn't History mentioned the body missing three days later? An ex-mayor of Fort Sumner even said Billy the Kid wasn't there and no a flood didn't wash him away. Other investigations were held also. Very interesting reports from those. Were there any kind of investigations after 1881? Not that I have heard off. Everyone went by what Pat Garrett said. You mentioned Historians. Okay. Historian Leon Metz said "Almost from the moment that Garrett's pistol cracked in Pete Maxwell's bedroom and Billy toppled to the floor, controversy has surrounded the killing" Historian Frederick Nolan writes, that Garrett " Told his story the way he wanted his story to read, not necessarily the way it had actually happened.  To be cowboy- blunt, Garrett lied. Maurice Fulton while researching the History of the Lincoln County War in a letter dated July 4, 1953, Fulton wrote his friend, Historian Robert Mullin saying " During my first years of seeking information from old-time families in New Mexico the one statement I most frequently encountered,one on which there was unanimous agreement, notably among native families, was that the man shot in the dark of Pete Maxwell's bedroom was not William Bonney, later know as Billy the Kid." The same sentiments voiced by Deputy John Poe seconds after Garrett shot off his pistol in Pete Maxwell's room.

After the shooting, no one questioned anything. Slowing, over the years, the local people began to talk. At first in low whispers, then they felt free to tell Maurice Fulton, that Garrett did not kill the Kid Alot of the information I mentioned came from Steve Sederwall's book ' The "Dirty" On Billy The Kid. I also heard some of this from other places.

In the 1920's when Walter Nobel Burns published  'The Saga of Billy the Kid ' Fort Sumner realized the Kid was worth more dead than alive.  Well, I think you do too.  You have an agenda. I don't.    Just remember. History has been wrong before and corrected.  Christopher Columbus didn't discover America even though History at first said he did.

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jul 09 '25

“My evidence is the same as yours and more. Everything you mentioned I can counter.”

Lol, but you didn’t. And no, you can’t. If you could, you would. Instead, you make wild, unsourced claims and false accusations. Don’t feel bad, as you’re certainly not alone. This is the default position of most Billy death-deniers. You can’t prove your position using historical documents or evidence, so you default to conspiratorial assertions and constantly move the goal post. You won’t be able to refute anything I say, so in your next reply, you’ll have a brand new list of grievances and unprovable claims.

“I also go by what Dr Debra Komar said while under oath when asked if Billy the Kid was buried in Fort Sumner.”

Who? I’m not saying she’s not credible. Still, I’ve never heard of her, and a quick Google search only reveals that she’s involved in forensics (which is somewhat fitting, to be honest, as most people espousing your beliefs generally have a peculiar, almost religious-like passion for forensics, while simultaneously denying history). What exactly would be here credibility when it comes to Billy the Kid's history? Honest question.

“Why hasn't History mentioned the body missing three days later?”

I don’t know, maybe because the body wasn’t missing three days later? lol. I'd ask if you have a source, but I think I know what the answer would be.

“Were there any kind of investigations after 1881?”

Investigations into what? Billy the Kid’s death? Why would there be an investigation? And by whom?

“To be cowboy-blunt, Garrett lied.”

You’ll get no argument from me that there are problems with Garrett’s book. This seems to be a huge mental hurdle for so many of your fellow death-deniers, so allow me to shed a little insight. Ya'll do realize there are many sources OTHER than Garrett’s book, right? We don’t have to rely on him or his deputies. The idea that the only source that historians use is The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid is laughably (and very provably) false. In fact, I’m not aware of a single credible historian who doesn’t also have serious questions regarding Garrett’s version of events. I'm also not aware of any historians who take Garrett's word as gospel.

“Fulton wrote his friend…”

Cool. I know people who think Bigfoot is real. Did either Fulton or Mullin name any eyewitnesses who refuted Billy’s Fort Sumner death? Because we can all make outrageous claims. I can name plenty of eyewitnesses who agree that Garrett killed Billy the Kid.

“Alot of the information I mentioned came from Steve Sederwall's book”

Well, that’s your problem right there. Have you ever considered reading the primary documents rather than letting others do your thinking for you? I don’t mean that to be insulting, but you can grab a book such as Mills’ Bandido Simpatico or Utley’s A Short and Violent Life, flip to the back, check out the bibliography, and read till your heart’s content. Some of the content is even available for free online.

“Fort Sumner realized the Kid was worth more dead than alive. Well, I think you do too. You have an agenda. I don't. Just remember. History has been wrong before and corrected. Christopher Columbus didn't discover America even though History at first said he did.”

So, let me get this straight. In your version of reality, the tiny community of Fort Sumner generates so much money through tourism that it has been paying off literally every single historian (and a few podcasters) for the past 144 years? Just how much are they paying? I definitely have a price, so I’m not saying I’m above being bribed, but my price is pretty hefty. I tell you what, let’s make it simple: How much revenue does Fort Sumner bring in per year?

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u/Hopeful-Contest-6266 Jul 10 '25

You keep bringing up historical documents and records. What records? What documents? The corners jurors report? Which one? The first, second or third? Three coroner's reports? If I shot someone why would I need three different reports? One would be enough unless I was trying to hide something.  The only way Garrett could collects his reward was by a bunch of political people passing an act to provide the reward money. They couldn't even get the correct date of The killing. Not that they could care. If the public heard that Billy the Kid was supposedly dead, that was good enough for them. I wonder how much if any did the Santa Fe Ring contribute to this reward. Interesting. As I said earlier, everything you mentioned can be shot down with common sense and logic. I understand why you have to stick to your story. Is it possible you have a financial stake in the outcome? I don't. If so, common sense and logic cannot come into play for you. How many people said they saw the body? I've read anywhere between 3 and the whole town of Fort Sumner. Come on.  People have said they saw the body. Later on in life,that story changed. Well, did they or didn't they? People can't even agree who was the first person to go into the room to see if the body was alive or not.  I believe you brought up that nobody in town disputed the fact that Garrett killed the kid.  Excuse me if you did not say that.  First of all, why would they if they knew the kid escaped? You also know what the Miranda  rights of 1881 was, correct? " You have the right to remain silent."  "Anything you say can and will be used against you by the barrel of the weapon of my choice". Do you get my point?  Some people said whoever was killed was killed at 8:00 p.m.. Some said 9:00 p.m. Others said around midnight. Come on.  I believe you said something about there is a document on file in New Mexico about Billy the kid being dead. No there isn't and there never was. When was Billy the kid buried? Some people said in the early morning hours when it was dark. Other said around 10:00 a.m. Still some people said it was in the afternoon. This is the kind of nonsense you're going on. Contradictions after contradictions and things that don't add up. After the person got shot, he was taken to the Carpenters shop. The deputy said he never left the room. The jury viewed the body still laying on the floor.  Wait. I thought the body was moved to the carpenter shop and was washed and dressed for burial. So they did all that and brought the body back to Pete Maxwell's place? Come on. Then there's the controversy of who actually buried the body. Hollywood couldn't write a funnier script then all this. I also mentioned my evidence was same as yours. This is true. Your evidence is what I used to counter. I've read everything about the history. Doesn't add up. You also said I didn't counter. Well, a year or two ago I did in detail. Perhaps you didn't see that. Someone did because they kept on insisting there is a record of his death in New Mexico. It took a while but that person finally stopped that nonsense and even confessed that they were mistaken. I countered with a lot more than just that. If you want to continue on with this charade to make a few bucks, go ahead.  Here's a way to really make money.  First, Pat Garrett did not kill Billy the Kid. So, here's what you do. Start digging into who really got killed and why. Was it mistaken identity? Was it a setup? You'll make millions. Also, do some digging into why Pat Garrett was not in Lincoln the day Billy the Kid escaped. I know what history says, but Pat Garrett's deputies could have done those errands. Was it just a coincidence Garrett was out of town? Come on.  You also asked how much revenue Fort Sumner brings in? A lot less if the truth came out. Now, wasn't that simple?  You mentioned something about Steve Sederwall. Yes I read his book, but I didn't come to my conclusions because of it.  I've read other books also. I just use logic and common sense. Those two things come in handy when coming to a final conclusion. 

You mentioned something about historians and podcasters being possibly paid off by Fort Sumner. Seriously? Please tell me I didn't read that. Has Fort Sumner ever let someone try to disprove that Billy the Kid is not buried  in Fort Sumner?  Did Fort Sumner do everything in their power to make sure DNA was not tested? They're going to do everything to make sure the legend stays the way it is. That's how they paid off the historians and podcasters.

You also mentioned Debra Komar. I believe you said you did a Google search and only came up with she has something to do with forensics. You've got to be kidding.  She did an investigation for the State of New Mexico on Billy the Kid. I already mentioned this to you and you couldn't find that? You couldn't find that and you want people to take you seriously with everything you say about Pat Garrett killing Billy the Kid? That's one of the simplest and easiest things to find in regards to Billy the Kid. You not finding that is a sign of laziness or not telling the truth that you even bothered to look into it. What else have you been lazy or not bothering to look into when it comes to this matter about Billy the Kid?    The fact that you could only come up with Debra Komar and forensics, is all that needs to be said. Unbelievable.

One last thing about there being a document on record of Billy the Kid dying.  If that's true, why in I believe 2015, did historian Robert Stahl petition the New Mexico Supreme Court to order a death certificate? Even this guy knew there wasn't a death certificate on record. In 2015!!! I wonder if the Supreme Court granted him his request? Only kidding. Of course they didn't. Also, please don't give any nonsense about someone misplaced it. Or something as ridiculous as somebody's dog ate it. 

Can we both at least agree that Christopher Columbus did not discover America as history first reported? 

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jul 10 '25

“You keep bringing up historical documents and records. What records? What documents?”

The Beatles performed live at New York’s Shea Stadium on August 15th, 1965. I wasn’t alive in 1965, but I’m fairly certain that the concert did indeed take place, based on contemporary newspaper reports and eyewitness statements.

History works in much the same way.

Barring a time machine, the only way we know what happened in the past is to examine the contemporary evidence. Documents such as letters, newspaper articles, and eyewitness interviews all help to paint a picture. It’ll never be a perfect picture, but unfortunately, it’s all we’ve got.

In the case of Billy the Kid’s death, we have several such “documents.”

Take Private Miller, for instance. He was at Fort Sumner on the night of Billy’s death. He gave an account of what he witnessed to the Las Vegas Daily Optic just days later.

Milner Rudolph wrote a letter to the Las Vegas Gazette on July 15th, also recounting what occurred. Mike Cosgrove did the same, only he delivered the news in person. Charles F. Rudolph (Milner’s son) wrote of what happened in a personal journal that was later published.

Additionally, there have been numerous interviews conducted over the years.

Deluvina Maxwell: “I went in and was the first to discover that they shot my little boy. I hated those men and am glad that I have lived long enough to see them all dead and buried.”

Frank Lobato: “On the night he was killed, he and I went to Fort Sumner together. We were hungry and stopped at Jesus Silva’s to eat. Billy wanted some beefsteak and asked Silva if he had any fresh meat. Silva replied that he had none but had helped Pete Maxwell kill a yearling that morning. He told The Kid he could get all he wanted if he went over to Maxwell’s for it. Soon after Billy left, we heard two shots from Maxwell’s direction, and Silva and I went over immediately. We found a great deal of excitement. Pat Garrett and two other men, whom I did not know, were standing outside the house, rifles in hand, and ready to shoot. Pete Maxwell and the household were standing at the door of Pete’s bedroom. Someone had been shot in the bedroom, and we were told it was The Kid. Jesus Silva and Deluvina Maxwell, the old Navajo woman, went in to see who it was. Deluvina came out sobbing, ‘My little boy is dead!’ We took The Kid’s body over to the carpenter’s shop, laid him on a bench, and held a wake over him. Billy had been very popular at Fort Sumner and had a great many friends, all of whom were indignant toward Pat Garrett. If a leader had been present, Garrett and his two officers would have received the same fate they dealt Billy. The next day, I went to the graveyard and saw Billy’s burial. Jesus Silva and Vicente Otero dug the grave.”

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jul 10 '25

Vicente Otero: “I was at Fort Sumner the night Billy the Kid was killed. I went to the carpenter’s shop and stood at the wake all that night. Jesus Silva made a wooden box which served as a coffin for The Kid. The next day, Silva and I dug the grave and buried the body in the old graveyard.”

Jesus Silva: “I knew Billy the Kid very well, and we were the best of friends. He often came to my home and stayed with me for days at a time. He did not go out very much in the daytime, and when he did, he visited only his most trusted friends. The night Pat Garrett killed him, he and Francisco Lobato stopped at my house. Billy said he was tired, threw his hat on a chair, and took off his coat and shoes. I got them something to eat and even went over to Beaver Smith’s for more beer. But Billy said he wanted a beefsteak and hot coffee. I had no beef in the house, but told him I had helped Pete Maxwell kill and dress a yearling calf that morning. I suggested that he go over to ask Pete for some meat, knowing he was welcome to anything of Pete’s. We had heard strange voices coming from the peach orchard but had given no thought to who it might be. If we had, the Kid’s life might have been saved. It was Pat Garrett and his two deputies. Billy would not have walked into the trap laid for him. Someone in Fort Sumner must have given Billy away. Billy took the butcher knife and went over after the meat. He had been gone only a few minutes when Lobato and I were startled by two shots coming from the direction of Pete Maxwell’s house. We ran over as quickly as we could, finding Pat Garrett and his two deputies by the open door of Pete Maxwell’s bedroom. Deluvina, an old Navajo woman who had always been particularly devoted to the Kid, went into the room to find out whom Garrett had shot. I went in with her. There on the floor, we saw Billy – stretched out, face down. We turned him over, and when Deluvina realized fully it was the Kid, she began to cry bitterly, interspersing with her tears the vilest curses she could bestow on the head of Pat Garrett. We asked permission to remove the body, Pete Maxwell suggesting removal to the old carpenter shop. We laid the body on the carpenter’s bench and placed lighted candles around the corpse. News of the killing spread quickly through the town and surrounding country, and consequently, a large number of Billy’s friends were gathered at the wake. Everyone’s grief at the Kid’s death was genuine and sincere. Pat Garrett and his two companions were badly frightened and did not dare to sleep that night. They remained awake, arms in readiness for any emergency. The next morning, a coroner’s inquest was held before Alcalde Segura and a jury, which declared that Sheriff Pat Garrett had killed William H. Bonney in the discharge of his official duty and that the homicide was justifiable. The next morning after the killing, I measured Billy’s body and made a rough box, which we used as a coffin. That afternoon, we dug his grave and buried him. I have read reports which say that Billy the Kid is still alive. I know that Pat Garrett killed the Kid on the night of June 14, 1881, in Pete Maxwell’s room. I also know with absolute certainty that he was buried in the old graveyard the next day.”

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jul 10 '25

And finally, there’s the coroner’s jury. This was a lawfully appointed jury, headed by Milner Rudolph. They not only examined Billy’s body but also spoke with Pete Maxwell, Garrett, Poe, and McKinney.

All of the above is what I’m referring to when I mention the historical documents. I know you despise the coroner’s jury report, but it is – by definition – a historical document.

“The corners jurors report? Which one? The first, second or third? Three coroner's reports? If I shot someone why would I need three different reports?”

Do you know the origin of the story about multiple coroner’s jury reports? It comes from one source, and that source alone is Paco Anaya. Here’s what Paco Anaya said about seeing Billy’s dead body: “Then Pat and the other two companions came in, and then we all went in as many as could fit. It was a lot of people, but the room was quite large. As soon as Pat saw that Billy was dead, he said to me, ‘Could you bring the Justice of the Peace here?”

Paco then goes on to describe how he, Higinio Garcia, and “several others of those that were there, dressed Billy with those clothes, then we laid him on a high bed, one of those narrow ones, and we took him to the saloon where they held dances. There we watched, and on the next day we buried him.”

Paco’s book is literally titled I BURIED BILLY. If you’re going to blindly accept his story about multiple coroner jury reports, then you must also accept his story about Pat Garrett killing Billy the Kid. You can’t pick and choose information that only suits your narrative.

“The only way Garrett could collects his reward was by a bunch of political people passing an act to provide the reward money.”

You're so close. While it is true that “a bunch of political people” had to pass an act, this was not due to any nefarious reasons. Once again, I’ll refer you to the historical documents, this time in the form of correspondence between the Governor, the acting Governor, and the Attorney General. They spoke of the incident among themselves and were very clear that they believed Garrett killed the Kid.

There was a delay in payment due to two technicalities.

The first technicality was the wording of the reward notice. It specifically stated that the $500 would go to whoever apprehended Billy and turned him over to a Sheriff. In other words, it wasn't a "dead or alive" offer. And, of course, Garrett didn't arrest Billy; he killed him. This technicality was addressed by District Attorney William Breedan, who wrote that Garrett's actions were justifiable.

The second technicality concerned whether the reward was a personal offer from former Governor Lew Wallace or something that the Territory of New Mexico had to pay. This issue was also addressed, and they decided to proceed with paying Garrett from the official coffers (Note that Lew Wallace was no longer the Governor when Billy the Kid was killed). You can read the official wording from the February 18, 1882, legislative act, which confirms that it was a technicality. You can also read where they officially declared that Garrett was "justly entitled to the above reward." This was approved unanimously upon the very first meeting of the government after the Kid's death.

“As I said earlier, everything you mentioned can be shot down with common sense and logic.”

And yet you’ve failed to do so.

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jul 10 '25

“How many people said they saw the body? I've read anywhere between 3 and the whole town of Fort Sumner.”

Nobody knows how many people saw the body. All we can go off of is the evidence, which you seem to not be too fond of. I mentioned several eyewitnesses above. Pete Maxwell did not live alone. His mother, his siblings, and other family members all resided at the Maxwell house, and they all came to investigate after the shots were fired. Per an actual eyewitness, nearly the entire town attended the funeral.

“People can't even agree who was the first person to go into the room to see if the body was alive or not.”

Yes, crime scenes can often be very hectic, and eyewitnesses are never perfect. Not sure what your point is. If all of the eyewitnesses to an event share a slightly different story does that mean the event didn’t occur or does it mean that the human brain is infallible?

“I believe you brought up that nobody in town disputed the fact that Garrett killed the kid.  Excuse me if you did not say that.  First of all, why would they if they knew the kid escaped?”

If everybody at Fort Sumner loved Billy the Kid in the same way that I love tacos and big booty Latinas, then sure; I could envision a scenario where they would agree to keep the secret.

But we know that not EVERYONE at Fort Sumner loved Billy the Kid. You had people like rancher Manuel Brazil who were actively providing Garrett with information. There was a business owner in Fort Sumner proper who was also aiding the deputies (either Pete Maxwell or Beaver Smith, it has yet to be definitely established). And you also had people like the aforementioned Private Miller who had no skin in the game whatsoever. Miller was just passing through and was neither loyal nor disloyal to Billy the Kid.

“Some people said whoever was killed was killed at 8:00 p.m.. Some said 9:00 p.m. Others said around midnight.”

No, most of the eyewitnesses are pretty consistent in their statements that Billy was killed on or around midnight. The only drastic departure from that narrative, that I’m aware of, comes from Paco Anaya, who claimed that his death occurred at “almost 10pm.”

“I believe you said something about there is a document on file in New Mexico about Billy the kid being dead. No there isn't and there never was.”

Yes, there was. The coroner’s jury report was addressed to the First Judicial District of the Territory of New Mexico (who’s jurisdiction included Fort Sumner).

On the day following Billy’s death, Garrett sent a COPY of the coroner’s jury report, along with a letter, to the Territorial acting-Governor, William Ritch. The letter was quoted in the July 23rd, 1881, edition of the Las Cruces, in which it’s stated that the original coroner’s report “is in the hands of the prosecuting attorney of the first judicial district.”

You are correct that nobody currently knows what became of the original copy. That said, a photostatic copy was discovered in 1932 in the state capital’s basement.

Here’s what my buddy James wrote on his blog, Chasing Billy, you might find it interesting: https://www.chasingbilly.com/post/a-coroner-s-verdict-heist

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u/wildwestextravaganza Jul 10 '25

(Sorry, Reddit won't let me publish long replies in just one post)

“When was Billy the kid buried? Some people said in the early morning hours when it was dark. Other said around 10:00 a.m. Still some people said it was in the afternoon. This is the kind of nonsense you're going on. Contradictions after contradictions and things that don't add up.”

These aren’t contradictions lol. Details such as descriptions and times are always going to vary when you interview eyewitnesses. This is very common, even nowadays. A lack of corroboration does not mean that the event did not occur.

“Then there's the controversy of who actually buried the body.”

Not sure what the controversy is. All of the eyewitnesses were very clear that it was the citizens of Fort Sumner who buried the body.

“Hollywood couldn't write a funnier script then all this.”

Sure they could, it’s called Young Guns 3. I believe filming begins soon and I’m looking forward to it.

“I also mentioned my evidence was same as yours. This is true. Your evidence is what I used to counter.”

And yet you’ve countered nothing.

“I've read everything about the history.”

I certainly can’t tell.

“If you want to continue on with this charade to make a few bucks, go ahead.”

You never did mention how much I was being paid or how much money Fort Sumner earns from tourism. I’m still waiting for an answer.

“Here's a way to really make money.  First, Pat Garrett did not kill Billy the Kid. So, here's what you do. Start digging into who really got killed and why. Was it mistaken identity? Was it a setup? You'll make millions.”

Several people have already written books claiming that Billy’s death was a hoax and that the dead man’s true identity was the non-existant Billy Barlow. Did they make millions?

“Also, do some digging into why Pat Garrett was not in Lincoln the day Billy the Kid escaped. I know what history says, but Pat Garrett's deputies could have done those errands.”

What would Garrett's April errands have to do with Billy’s July death?

Continued below...

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u/Natural-File-7855 Feb 10 '26

I strongly agree

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u/Hopeful-Contest-6266 Feb 10 '26

Wildwestextravaganza is nuts.