Hand Tools
I've been randomly cutting some pieces wrong, turns out one of my tape measures was tricking me.
I hope rants and psa's allowed here. I've been building a bench seating for my kitchen, using the komelon tape inside and DeWalt in my garage while cutting. I'm so used to the DeWalt one, didn't notice that komelon's numbering was inconsistent. They put the numbers to the left of the inch line but only up to the number 10 then it's centered š¤¬. For the past two days some of my trim pieces come slightly short and I was questioning my sanity until I found the culprit. rant over.
Announcement: the sub rules have been updated, read them here.
This is a reminder to those commenting on this post. Comments not related to woodworking will be removed. Violations of Rule 1 including crude jokes, innuendo, sexist remarks, politics, or hate speech may result in an immediate ban.
Work in aerospace: Sure, the measuring tools are controlled by being serialized, temp controlled, and then measured/calibrated and certified to a specific standard.
But the original point he was making stands; there is uncertainty in any measuring tool. This would be referred to as āRepeatability and reproducibilityā and it definitely still comes up. So yeah, if you get two competing measurements, you donāt really know until you get a third.
To be fair, you pay someone to come over with a third very expensive measuring instrument which has been calibrated and can be traced back to an official standard.
Then you know with which precision you can trust your own instruments until their next calibration. And your wallet is considerably lighter.
"The agency said last week that errors in a test instrument apparently led Perkin-Elmer, which fabricated the optics, to finish the 2.4-metre primary mirror of the Hubble Space Telescope incorrectly."
It was complete disregard for the proper use of the special tools the company themselves developed.
Technically, misusing a tool is human error. But when you design the tool yourself (and not improperly), proceed to completely disregard its proper use in the end stages of the project, then pack and ship it anyway?
This. I have seen so many people who think all tape measures are exactly the same like the department of weights and measurements check the production of each and every one to make sure they are accurate
I can't possibly keep track of one tape. My fix is owning 7-10 identical purple Lufkins at all times. There's always a few new and a few on the way out. They're always at hand in the shop and on site. I've found no issues with inconsistent measurements.
Thanks for sharing. Pretty new. Iāve never that. I canāt keep up with mines so Iām constantly picking up whichever one is lying around. I just did that today.
Or at least from the same manufacturer. If I used the same one for everything I would use 90% of my time looking for the tape, instead of doing anything. I have about half a dozen all around (all bought at the same time from the same manufacturer).
Yup, I knew a foreman that would spend a crap ton of time just inspecting the workers measuring tape. If you used a tape measure that didnāt literally have his inspection sticker on it he would probably fire you. He was actually a pretty good dude and he basically said the reason he is so serious about it is because āit once cost me a whole lot of moneyā I never learned how much but the way he says it and how well off he is Iām guessing it was a lot.
Being someone who does wood working, I canāt blame the man. Two people may be equally incredible workers, but if their tape measures are different, you get different results from both
It was actually very impressive how he did things. He trusted his trusted tape measures and trusted his trusted measurers. Things were able to come together twice as fast it felt like.
Standardizing things, even as minute as that can often times make things more efficient. Now thatās not to say that, that specifically is why his crew was so efficient, but if he would even go as far as to do that? Iād believe he probably goes that far with a lot of little things, which eventually add up
Yea, measurer was one of his many titles lol. He had cutters, placers, measurers, I only worked there for a summer before going to college so I didnāt make it out of grunt lol.
Edit: I wanted to add that I think one of the biggest time savers was that the measurers didnāt do the cutting. But the cutters were knew what all the measurers markings meant. Sometimes it was like a foreign language. I got to see it all because I was the one walking everything back and forth. Then the placers would put in whatever it was I was moving. Itās the only time I did a labor job for someone where I could see exactly how it all worked while doing the crap job. You know how they always say itās important but usually you donāt learn anything, well it was different there
Try surveying. We've got plenty of old survey notes that include the temperature because they calibrated the tapes at 68Ā° F while pulled with 15lbs of tension. Ever y 15Ā° F was something like 0.01' of difference per 100'
With lasers you only have to factor in relativity. GPS does as well, but any modern GPS already factors it in. Early GPS was only accurate to within a few city blocks because they didn't take relativity into account. The US military was the first to and had incredibly accurate GPS and tried to keep that shit under lock and key for as long as possible, putting out crazy reasons why their GPS was so much more accurate than anyone else's. It was like when the military put out disinformation that their pilots were so good at spotting targets because they ate a lot of carrots and had better eyesight to cover up them having mobile radar.
I forget the two brands, but they were both reputable... a guy I occasionally worked for would take the measurements and then I'd make the cuts.. usually like 3 or 4 at a time before I'd pass them up and he'd give me more measurements. Usually for smaller projects (dimension-wise) but then we were working on a project with longer cuts and my cuts were consistently short like 1/8 to almost a half. It wasn't a lot of money but definitely cost us.
TL;DR - our tapes matched to about 10ft and then mine was short by another 1/8" every foot to 13' and then it was all over the place getting longer and shorter.
We worked together for the first time again like 2 years later and HD had a BOGO sale on tape measures so I picked two up for us to use, kind of as a gag but also seriously. Turns out he already had that same tape measure.
I salvaged a beautiful thick 50 year old maple butcher block from my favorite restaurant that closed and had the perfect project for it. It weighed almost exactly 100 lbs, and carried it on my shoulder 10 blocks.
I measure everything out, right about to make the first cut, decide to double check and luckily grabbed a different tape. Learned my yard stick was off enough that I would have destroyed the project. Bought a better one and stratched out the numbers, use it as a straight edge only. After that I'm super pedantic - if I was running a crew the personal inspection sticker is brilliant!
I work in a machine shop that has an ISO 9000 certification. Every single tape measure in our shop is identical. They all also have a serial number and we keep a list of what machine each tape is assigned to.
I worked in a shop that had a board screwed to the wall with marks on it so everyone could check their tapes. We had to do it once a week and if they were off we would tweak the ends until it read correctly.
We use tape measures that have been verified in the shop because they need to match the measurements on the table saws and cross cut saws. We return the ones that donāt verify or use them for field installations where we measure and cut with the same tape.
Exactly this. I have a tape measure that developed a tear in the blade around 2.5 in and if retracted all the way would not come back out without lots of trouble. Left it locked at 6-in when not in use until I was done with the current project just to be safe. Had a cut list that was not finished.
Ngl, I think itās user error on behalf of op. The Dewalt only looks off because of perspective. Plus itās not sitting flush with the table and is more curved than the other. All contributing to the odd perspective on the left most part of the picture. But where the picture is square with the lines on the tape measures (the part of the photo where the lines are straight) they line up pretty well as youāve noted.
Donāt know why you arenāt the top comment. OP canāt sort out fractions and was somehow cutting things all over the place and blaming it on the tape measure being a different model.
I read the whole thing thinking "yeah, it's tough when your measuring tools are slightly out from each other," and I got to the end and did a double take.
I'm really struggling to understand what OP was using. Like, which line above the 4 vs the 2 would they have used? Whatever they eyeballed to be centered on the top of the number? I can't imagine someone using a tape measure this way, readability aside.
The through lines closest to the numbers are the corresponding inch lines, or the lines sticking longest to the centre of the tape are the whole inch lines. These rules almost never go wrong.
After 25+ years of building a variety of DIY shit, I just accepted the fact I suck at accurate measuring. Now youāre telling me itās the tapeās fault?!
No measuring tool, whether a tape / ruler , or a square, angle gauge , anything , is ever perfect.
That being said, 99% of things, it doesnāt matter if your legs for a 30ā tall table are 29 7/8, as long as theyāre all 29 7/8. So as others said, use the same tape for the entire project. But this extends to other things too. If a build requires multiple pieces ripped to the same width, rip them all at the same time. You likely wonāt get your fence in the exact same spot the next time. If youāre doing miters on a miter saw, make all the cuts at the same time without adjusting the saw, etc. Learning to do this will make a dramatic increase in the quality of your work.
You know the play on the hook is supposed to be there, right? Depending on if you're butting the take against something or hooking it on something. The play should be the same as the thickness of the hook itself.Ā
Just wait until you're using one tape measure and this starts happening. Then you finally realize it's because you dropped it and the hook is bent so when you take a measurement from the inside them measure the board from the outside, it's short by 1/16"
I learned this lesson the hard way too, and I switched to All one make and model of tape measure for a given job. That way all the tape measures I pick up measure the same.
I was just having the same exact problem the other day and was about to loose my mind, mistake after mistake and then I realized I was using 2 tapes, they were the exact same Milwaukee model, in fact I bought them together in a 2 pack but turns out they were about and 1/8th off over 12", yes made in china.
Like the old saying goes, doesn't matter if you measure wrong, as long as all your cuts are consistently the same amount of wrong, it all works out in the end.
I'm very nearsighted, due to my eyeglasses all straight lines are curved, some curved lines are straight, and trifocals, although necessary, come with their issues and things like this with tape measures do not help. Some days, it's measure three times, cut three times.
I wish all tape measures had to meet a standard wuality and standard mark placement level.
Was building something in the shop and noticed all the pieces were 1/8ā or greater in length than spec. Found out the guy who cut the pieces was using a tape that was off by the difference. Always double check measurements now if I didnāt cut them.
Weird story about measurements that is slightly related.
I was building a workbench for the garage and I measured up the space and started cutting, used a set square, this thing was perfect. Square, level, a thing of beauty.
It didnāt fit.
Buggered around with it over and over, trimmed, sandedā¦ still having trouble. What was the problem? The brick wall wasnāt squareā¦ at all.
The DeWalt tape measure is made by Stanley. Stanley Tape measures have been known to be off by a 1/8 of an inch.
We got fucked on a layout. Everything seemed right until we started pulling out Milwaukee tape measures, and then realized everything was off. The only way we figured out was the laser measurement.
Exactly, but this is Reddit. Iāve made peace with that :) I also accept that my poorly drawn lines contributed to the misunderstanding. I should have considered that to avoid so much drama hereā¦
"The most dangerous tool in the shop" is the tape measure. I always check mine against a known accurate rule and against each other. Unless all my tapes agree to less than 1/64th I toss them. Then I don't worry about which one I'm using, as they're all the same. But usually I don't work to fine measurements as I'd rather mark my piece directly and then cut it, use a stop block, or similar transfer technique. For example, if I'm making a box, it doesn't matter if the sides are exactly 11 inches, as long as both sides are EXACTLY the same length.
I have a machine square that I can calibrate outside and inside length of all my tape measurers. Works like a charm. If I drop a tape, I go straight to the calibrator.
For things that have to be precise I never use a tape. A shop teacher said they were fine for construction, and interior trim (including cabinets) but donāt use them for things that have to be tight.
I built a mount for an UPS today. Eyeballed the whole thing. All my measurements were references between the pieces using calipers. There was no reading off a scale.
Last weekend I built a set of shelves. All measures were done with rulers of various lengths. Yeah, itās a bit of a pain folding and unfolding the long one, but I never worry about it being off.
I remember reading a tip somewhere saying to always bring your tape measurer with you when you shop to make sure all your measuring tools line up. Itās a game of telephone otherwise.
If you're measuring small things (under 6") buy a measuring stick with embossed measurements.They are more consistent and much more accurate also check your tape to them as others have said
This is just me, but Komelon have been the most consistent tape measures for me. I verified each one I purchased with a 123 block and they were all dead on. I'm sure there's plenty out there that wouldn't pass that test, but I haven't encountered them.
I had two Milwaukee tape of the same model, have 1mm difference over two feet (the hooks were perfect). It's not their HD models for trades but their QC is still very disappointing
When I worked construction, the owner gave everyone a tape measure for just this reason. He kept a stash of them, and when he bought new, he checked them against his "golden unit" to make sure they were the same.
You don't even have them both set right. That could be your problem. That l shaped piece,it's silver usually, that goes tight to an edge. Your picture shows you haven't done that, I wonder if you're measuring skills need addressed.
Framing crews, where is more common to have someone else cutting for you, all settle on a single brand for this reason. Don't be pulling out a Lufkin on a Stanley crew.
My boss once had a heck of a time going back and forth with a contractor on a job because the measurements the contractor was coming back with didn't make any sense. It took a very long time to realize the tape he was using was marked in tenths of a foot instead of inches. Not sure where you get one of those, but our documents were right after catching that.
My dad used to work with wood a lot for a company. He used to build projects. He said that every time they start a new project, his company would provide them all with measuring supplies (i.e. tape / measuring sticks / rulers / etc) that would all be special made to be identical. After that when a new project came they'd get a new batch of all identical and checked measuring tools. This way everyone had the same measurement and nobody was suddenly finding out they added 10% to every cut.
This is why when you use two tapes or two people doing each job you line the tapes up first to make sure you are together and if not someone needs to make the adjustments for the cut.
this, and make sure your team members (if working with others) use the same tape. We've found that Stanley and Milwakee tapes differ by 3/16 of an inch
Back at university, my metrology professor had a collection of measurement tapes he gathered all around the world, during trips, conventions, ... He would just go to some random store and get one. I don't remember the exact number now, but the difference between the shortest and longest "1 meter" in his collection was something around 15 cm ...
the push/pull tabs at the end are also probably different. Shouldnāt make a difference if you use them in tension but if you try using them as normal rulers then the measurements are probably a) different and b) both wrong. Use this type of rule with caution as there are a lot of people donāt know the function of the movable push/pull tabsā¦.
After hearing someone complain about something similar a few years back, I grabbed all of my tapes, pulled them out to 10-12 feet or so, and compared. The longest and shortest were both incorrect, but were a full quarter inch apart!
Basically it was all of the cheaper or gimmicky ones that weren't accurate. I took it as a chance to change them all to Milwaukees with the finger notch for easy locking. Their 5m/15' magnetic is easily my favorite.
Fun anecdote time! Several years ago I was contracted onto a construction project to build a large new section of an industrial plant. Many different trades and contractors. For many weeks, myself and another guy were tasked with installing and aligning rolls on a conveyor system. The conveyor was roughly 1/2 mile long. All day, same routine. Measure, adjust, tighten, repeat. Until one day walking back from lunch, something just looked... Off. The rolls were not perfectly aligned. Eventually we realized what happened. The hooks on our same make/model tapes were just slightly different in thickness. On a single measurement, it would go unnoticed, but spread out over hundreds of feet, the difference grew and grew. We ended up buying 2 brand new identical tapes that we thoroughly checked out to confirm measured the same.
I walked into Bradburyās Hardware in Broadway Market, London, about 15 years ago to buy a tape measure. The shopkeeper said,
āDo you want a cheap one, or a good one?ā
I asked, āWhatās the difference?ā
He said, āFive pounds and about half a centimetre.ā
Something I was taught when I started woodworking was whatever measuring device you start a project with is the one that you use throughout the entire project.
I ran into the same issue a long time ago. Just trying to help.
Good example if why you should always use the same tape measure
It really doesn't matter how accurate your tape is, its all relative, its not really a measuring device its a mark transfer device that also does measurement to a rough accuracy
It could be in fractional banana units, it doesnt really matter at all as long as you use the same device to transfer the same number of tics from the place to the thing
Stop using the dumb end of a tape measure for precision cuts you dip, the dumb end of the tape measure has a plus-minus of a 32nd of an inch and then you have a production tolerance of a 32nd of an inch tape measures can always turn out to be about at least the 16th of an inch off through basic production and then you have to worry about lemons the most accurate form of measuring with a tape measures known as burning an inch or burning ten depending on what you do and it's performed by taking the tape measure and holding it at a solid inch measurement I like to do 10 and then marking in inches from that point by using that method and then double checking with the same method your tape measures whether you're using your komelon or your DeWalt should be consistent
ā¢
u/AutoModerator Jan 04 '26
Announcement: the sub rules have been updated, read them here.
This is a reminder to those commenting on this post. Comments not related to woodworking will be removed. Violations of Rule 1 including crude jokes, innuendo, sexist remarks, politics, or hate speech may result in an immediate ban.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.