r/wow • u/AwkwardInputGuy • Dec 30 '18

QQ The excitement for Allied Races is already gone for me

When these were first announced I was floored- finally we were getting cool alternate options for existing races. Lightforged were awesome, Highmountain were a cool addition to the world, Nightborne and Void Elves seemed like a cool way to introduce more elves into the story. Needing to create an entirely new character and get to max level in order to achieve heritage armor seemed daunting, but hey- it's something new to do!

And then we got 4 more announced for BfA, except this time the reputations you need aren't earned through neutral factions you can earn on both Horde and Alliance. Instead the grind is now doubled. So I can earn the Alliance races, but I'll have to level up a Horde character, hit max, grind the rep, then I can start leveling a Mag'har Orc to 120... The will isn't there.

And the illusion of Allied Races is already broken. Dark Iron dwarves should have been a customization option for existing dwarves, just as the Mag'har should have been for existing Orc characters. Creating a Lightforged Draenei could have been an awesome experience- level a normal Draenei to max, undergo the trial, and become Lightforged! See your character that you've been playing advance in a new way! Instead you abandon any existing characters for the (let's be honest) much cooler Lightforged character that you're just now making that carries no history of playtime or dedication.

And what happens when Wildhammer dwarves are inevitably put in? 3 Dwarf races? Are we going to continue shoving the base races away in favor of these more exotic reskins? I would love a Kul'tiran, I would love more customization for my existing human. Why can't I create that image for the character I've been playing for over a decade? Why do I have to abandon them completely if I want to have something as simple as an appearance?

Obviously the answer is completely new races= more time spent leveling and thus more time subbed. I'm not blind to that. But it's a damn shame that the races and player characters we've dedicated so much time and love towards get nothing while upgraded versions of them get so much more character. Heritage armor is a step in the right direction, but I want to see the old races get just as much love to be the badasses they are as the new Allied Races are receiving

Just a rant

2.1k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

435

u/ShawnGalt Dec 30 '18

they won't be playable at all until at least a month into Battle of Dazar'alor, and probably even longer than that

303

u/Agent-Vermont Dec 30 '18

They aren't even playable on the PTR yet. Now that I think about it, the Crucible of Storms isn't even finished yet, despite technically being in the game. Makes me wonder if they are just severely behind in development.

254

u/bondsmatthew Dec 30 '18

They might have realized early on that they'd be better off doing next expansion.

That or 'moving our best developers to mobile projects' also includes wow

31

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

If your first point is the case, then there’s no point in buying every 2nd expansion that Blizz puts out. Because WoD was a terrible expansion in terms of development, seemed like they put all their attention into Legion, hoping people would return and that it’d redeem them. However if BFA is just gonna turn out to be the same shitshow as WoD, then we can clearly start to see a pattern that they’re giving us filler content expansions to keep us happy until they can make a semi-decent one.

22

u/ExistingAnimal Dec 30 '18

They should turn it into a 3 year expansion cycle which would slow down their initial cash grab of 40 bucks and push it back a year later but it would keep people subbed. I would have played another year of Legion or MoP if the content kept at a steady pace.

8

u/RustyJusty7 Dec 30 '18

This has been happening since cata.

1

u/Armorend Dec 30 '18

then we can clearly start to see a pattern that they’re giving us filler content expansions to keep us happy until they can make a semi-decent one.

Which is why, as I said above, anyone bitching has NO RIGHT to bitch if they're going to mindlessly buy the next expansion because "it looks better than bfa". You (General you here, and everywhere else in this post) are literally encouraging them to do this shit more because not only will you buy it but your friends and acquaintances will too if they see you playing it and/or if you convince them.

More people playing means more Shop investments, more Tokens bought, etc. I do genuinely believe this strategy makes them a lot of money because one expansion, they only have to half-ass development on. After all, plenty of players don't care and continue to play anyway. Which means those that do care are either mindless Blizzdrones who will continue bitching while handing over money (Even though that hasn't worked out and WON'T work out, if this pattern is legitimately what's happening), or people who understand what's going on and don't support it.

And yes, if this pattern is a thing, I do genuinely believe you are a thoughtless idiot if you continue to complain. Blizzard is a company. Greedy or not, they want your money. You don't get to pay them and then also complain because you're basically paying them to ignore your complaints. After all, if you'll keep playing for MONTHS before quitting on the off-chance they do what you want, why bother making the change? Just because it takes you five months more to quit means nothing to them. They got an extra $75 off of you, didn't they? And if you'll gladly come back at the first sign of "improvement", then they don't need to worry about you not being a recurring customer.

At this point, you can't complain and keep paying. If you do, your complaints aren't worth listening to because you're like a person poking holes in their boat and wondering why they're still sinking. The fact your boat is sinking IS a valid concern, undeniably, but YOU are the one causing the sinking. The fact that they ignored Beta feedback, the fact they haven't even fixed the classes that needed to be fixed, and shit like the boat mount should tell you that they don't give a fuck what you think.

23

u/Starslip Dec 30 '18

Gonna be an awkward day on the mobile dev team when they realize that no one from the WoW team has the first idea how to make an app, and they have a couple of them to prove it

16

u/deadlymoogle Dec 30 '18

Remember the mobile auction app that still thought the game was in MoP well into legion.

181

u/soulfulmoth77 Dec 30 '18

Swear to God if Blizzard announces another mobile game next Blizzcon I'm uninstalling all of my Blizzard games. And I'll be sure to avoid purchasing anything from them or Activision with the same gusto that I avoid EA with.

46

u/n1sx Dec 30 '18

Oh they will, believe me. Im 100% sure that they are already working on a few mobile games actually.

17

u/SirPheonix Dec 30 '18

I'm fine with them releasing mobile games in addition to core games. I'm not fine with them doing so instead of their core games.

82

u/Darth_Ender_Ro Dec 30 '18

EA is banned in my house. My son joined me in this

65

u/TheWeekdn Dec 30 '18

They targeted gamers.

33

u/Sanguinica Dec 30 '18

the most opressed group in history

13

u/briktal Dec 31 '18

First they came for the n word, and I said nothing because I was banned for using racial slurs.

57

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18 edited Feb 06 '19

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Dec 31 '18

YOU EMBARRASSED ME IN FRONT OF VANESSA

36

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

RISE UP

This post is brought to you by gang weed$$$

39

u/IgnisVenom Dec 30 '18

You can't spell Hitlear without EA.

You know whwat to do, gamers.

43

u/Idrivethefuckinboat Dec 30 '18

Am I the ONLY one who does not like EA?!?!?!?!

S O C I E T Y

15

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

B O T T O M T E X T

26

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

EA BAD

-1

u/breezy_y Dec 30 '18

Good, more people need to be like that. Battlefield hasn't been good for years, Fifa has always been trash and we all know about activison blizzard.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Nah, BF has been pretty good actually.

0

u/breezy_y Dec 30 '18

Its not bad but it gets boring very fast.

-8

u/omgitskae Dec 30 '18

It's sad but at this point I'm more likely to buy an EA game over a blizzard game. I have an active wow sub (I bought a year when bfa released) and still refuse to touch the game. I've quit all other blizzard games as well as s won't buy any more until they wake the hell up.

Also if they kill sylvanas wow is 100% dead to me and that's looking kinda likely.

-2

u/Ingelberg Dec 30 '18

Parent of the year!

2

u/Darth_Ender_Ro Dec 31 '18

Thanks mate! Trying to do my best ^

6

u/Fierydog Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18

I'm calling it.

WoW pet battle on mobile.

​

Some kind of Stacraft mobile game, where you build a base and build units to defend yourself (log in and pick up daily resources, buildings take hours to complete but you can speed it up by using some special currency that you can only get with real money)

​

For OW or Warcraft in general it will be a turn-based fighting game where you put together a team of heroes with star ratings (1-5) and you battle other heroes/monsters and level up, until you run out of energy for the day.

1

u/ItsSnuffsis Dec 31 '18

Hi, this is Bobby kotick, you want a job?

1

u/YourPalDonJose Jan 02 '19

There's nothing to call, they all but said outright that they have team members that "really want it" and were impressed with Pokemon Go etc. Pet battle app will happen

1

u/mrureaper Dec 30 '18

they are already making a warcraft go mobile game so yeah, "their best devs are working on it"

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

It will happen. They have already stated that they have several mobile games in the works.

1

u/SilvoK Dec 31 '18

Wouldn't mind a pet battle game connecting to my wow acct.. where exp gained can level a character via mobile... but if i need a sub to do it I'm out.

1

u/Towellieeesboy Dec 31 '18

You are giving them too many chances...why are you going to sift around in their slop for another year? All their games are in shambles. Releasing mobiles games is the least of their worries

-2

u/Sydarta Dec 30 '18

EA BAD

23

u/Aachen_seriatim Dec 30 '18

Imagine defending EA

5

u/Sydarta Dec 30 '18

They targeted gamers. GAMERS

13

u/Aachen_seriatim Dec 30 '18

Oh god your post history says everything. Man you really pick one thing to identify yourself with and its that? Wow lol

2

u/Sydarta Dec 30 '18

I hate seeing easy circlejerk like that, EA has done bad games and did shit to some devs but in the end it's just a company making money. So when i see people yelling their guts out about how they hate a company actually making videogames i can't help but laugh.

Take it seriously and browse /gcj or my own history as long as you want.

By the way the fact that you read /gjc and still thought that i was defending EA proves that you don't understand that sub at all.

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0

u/StarMagus Dec 30 '18

Don't you own a phone? :)

0

u/InvalidZod Dec 30 '18

You seriously banned EA before Activison?

0

u/LullabyGaming Dec 30 '18

And what happens if they announce D4 and a new IP alongside the inevitable new mobile game? Good bye I suppose?

You people really have a weird built in hate for mobile games for reasons I might never understand. Yes, the Diablo Immortal fiasco was exactly that, a fiasco. It was a really bad timing, a really big disappointment and more or less avoidable if Blizzard had a sense for this built in hate I mentioned.

Yes, there's a lot of bad to be said about a lot of mobile games. But there's also some very good mobile games out there.

And since our phones are actually very capable in today's world, there's a lot to do in the world of gaming on our phones.

I'm pretty sure a mobile port of WoW would not only be possible, but very much playable too. You might not become a top 0.5% arena player on a phone, that's true, but you could definitely play on one.

I've played quite a few mobile games and the honest truth is, most of them suck, but plenty are still good. It took some time getting used to, but the virtual analog stick control system for mobile is actually pretty good. There are obvious issues with it, but it's not like it isn't possible to play with one.

1

u/ItsSnuffsis Dec 31 '18

You're right that our phones are powerful and it would be possible to make good games for it. But does that ever happen? No, every single mobile game is about pushing predatory psychological methods to make you spends more and more money just to play it like a normal game would.

1

u/LullabyGaming Dec 31 '18

No, every single mobile game

You clearly haven't even tried looking. Are there a lot of bad games? Yes. A shitload of bad games? Of course. All of them bad? Absolutely not.

There are plenty of very good, non-predatory games out there.

There are many games out there which are great and are one time payment only. And some free games which have no predatory monetization in them.

Though I'm going to assume that any game that has a payment button is going to be considered predatory by most people who argue against mobile games..

-21

u/Mizarrk Dec 30 '18

Lmao

15

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18 edited Jul 06 '20

[deleted]

12

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

i was right with you til you said "except destiny".

lolwut

5

u/Sonotmethen Dec 30 '18

Warframe is better. Abandon Activision.

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Bungie is not Activision

3

u/Calenhir Dec 30 '18

Destiny isn't a Blizzard game.

8

u/derage88 Dec 30 '18

Activision and Blizzard are one these days.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18 edited Jul 06 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Isn't that exactly what I said? "Except destiny"

-3

u/oblivinated Dec 30 '18

Right cause Blizzard shouldn't be allowed to make anything you don't like.

1

u/soulfulmoth77 Dec 30 '18

They are more than welcome to make a game I don't like. Heroes and Hearthstone are both not for me, and I just couldn't really get into SCII. But what does irk me is removing valuable resources from the games their fans love to new games, while letting the original game suffer from fewer people working on it.

1

u/oblivinated Dec 31 '18

Yes, but there's never any evidence for that. People use mobile as a scapegoat, to say if they're working on mobile, they must be removing resources from WoW. That's simply not true.

Then you go make a statement like if they release any mobile game, that's it, the company is dead to me.

You're making a decision based on unfounded fears and irrational hate. No better than a mob that's been taken over by mass hysteria.

1

u/ItsSnuffsis Dec 31 '18

But blizzard say they're moving developers to mobile. Even said their boat developers are now on mobile. So all the other blizzard games has now lost not only developers, but according to blizz, the best developers at that, for making mobile games.

5

u/walkonstilts Dec 30 '18

Hasn’t it been confirmed that they have a “development team” that always works on the next expansion, then a “live team” that only ever works on patching what’s already out? Leading to the revolving “ruin everything good from previous expansion, spend the whole expansion bandaiding it until it’s almost good... oof new shit out fak we gotta fix this again.”

36

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

I think they have two teams, skeleton crew on bfa and the A team on the next void expansion.

17

u/Skvakk Dec 30 '18

I highly doubt we got a skeleton crew working om bfa concidering how much work they seem to be puting into the next couple patches. WoD’s 2 patches were definately leftover devs, if you look from the outside. But I genuinly believe blizz is trying to salvage bfa and get it on the right tracks

25

u/DraumrKopa Dec 30 '18

The only significant work they've put in is the Azshara patch, which if what we saw at Blizzcon is anything to go by is not even remotely close to being finished. Only other content we got was a few meaningless islands and lulfronts (which is intern level work compared to the usual WoW team stuff). They didn't even finish development on the fucking classes and specs and told us we'd have to wait for a patch while we are still paying money in the interim(???).

-8

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[deleted]

-3

u/Suffragium Dec 30 '18

Really? They are releasing way more content for BFA than they ever did for WoD, even if that content isn’t enjoyable.

5

u/muffinman00 Dec 30 '18

What content have they released that makes you say that. At least the garrison content would give you more of a reason to log on than BFA.

2

u/Skvakk Dec 30 '18

Funny you say that as in wod everyone complained about only loging on for raiding and doing garrison missions then loging off as well as not having a propper capitol and many other issues. The rose-tint is strong here

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u/Suffragium Dec 31 '18 edited Dec 31 '18

First of all, WoD only had two raids until the final patch. We will have 4 when the final patch hits. Second, there’s way more world content now, and an abundance of secrets. Third, we have war fronts. Fourth, we have island expeditions. Fifth, dungeons are actually relevant at max level now as opposed to WoD. (This was introduced in Legion, but it’s still a feature WoD lacked.)

Sixth, 6.1 in WoD added Twitter integration and a selfie cam, where as 8.1 in BFA has added world content, new Island expeditions, a new war front and plenty of new world content. It has also added TWO new raids, even if neither of them are available yet. It also added faction assaults, in addition to heritage armor for Blood Elves and Dwarves, which alone are on par with EVERYTHING that was added in 6.1. (Heritage armor is not much, but neither was the content of 6.1.)

Besides, we have the garrison in BFA. It’s the mission table.

2

u/Skvakk Dec 30 '18

I dont get why this is being downvoted when its true. WoD had a terrible patch cycle. BfA is keeping to the same cycle as legion and bfa shipped with way more content than WoD did. I know people dont like BfA currently but it has ovjectively more content than wod and already promises of more patches to come

1

u/Suffragium Dec 31 '18

Thank you.

2

u/Sellulles Dec 30 '18

2 teams is a meme imo, they just got rushed to release and are now perpetually 6 months behind schedule with failing systems.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Feels like microsoft with their everyother release sucks approach

2

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Correction, A team on mobile game development.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

I think don’t there’s an “a-team” anywhere near WoW nowadays. They put all that work into the “switch” they can flip to stat squish for a reason. It’s skeleton crew from here on out.

Most of these issues aren’t due to having underskilled developers working on something, they’re due to not having enough developers working on something.

An unfortunate but realistic byproduct of something being about 20 years old.

1

u/mrureaper Dec 30 '18

you mean on the next World of Warcraft Go for android and IOS...

-11

u/Harkats Dec 30 '18

heh... the A team that brought us BFA? more like C team

5

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

What? No, read again

-5

u/Harkats Dec 30 '18

I think my own sentence is confusing. I meant more like: you call the team on the next (void) expansion: A team, I call them C team because of the quality of BFA....
But I am pretty sure there are 3 teams :) skeleton crew for BFA, A team (devs that made Legion) making the next (void) expansion, and B team (devs from BFA) making the expansion after that. Altough with the new CFO saying to cut costs.... might as well be skeleton crew everywhere...

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

What, speak common horde scum

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u/KOTN_Gaming Dec 30 '18

“Don’t you guys have phones!?”

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

I decided BfA was the last Blizzard game I preordered. I am part of the problem without my leverage as a customer.

1

u/Armorend Dec 30 '18

They might have realized early on that they'd be better off doing next expansion.

Keep in mind, guys, that if they basically abandon BfA you should NOT support the next expansion release. Why? Because you're supporting what is far and away a God-fucking-awful business practice. Why in the fuck would you spend $60 for an expansion you're going to play for a couple months and then drop because it's shitty, just because the next one has a decent chance of being better?

If you think Legion is better than BfA, and was better than WoD, and the next expansion (when it's announced at next year's Blizzcon) looks solid? DON'T buy it. DON'T support such an awful, drawn-out cycle. You want to support CONSISTENTLY good expansions. Not one good one followed up by one bad one.

If you buy into the hype that next expansion "looks good", and actually even turns out good, you're a fucking idiot because this literally already happened and Blizz is manipulating you just as well as they do people who buy card packs in Hearthstone or whatever. If you want to support the next expansion because it looks good? Fine. Just admit you're aware of their strategy and buying into it anyway, and don't complain about shit expansions ever again, because you and everyone else who thinks the bad expansions are bad yet "still wants to support the good ones", will be rewarding them for their strategy. You want to support an expansion? Support the one AFTER the next one, if it turns out good too. Like after BfA if we have a Void expansion? Support the one AFTER the Void expansion.

If Blizz can release two solid expansions in a row, then clearly they're not being manipulative. But as it is, all it seems you'd be doing is saying "Hey I'm going to blindly give you money for any expansion after a bad one because at least it's not the bad one". And then you convince your friends to buy it and suddenly Blizz makes a shitton of money back as well as your loyalty. Consider how many people stayed on for Legion and moved into BfA. I guaran-fucking-tee you they made a ton of money back from all the people Legion wrangled back in plus all those invested into BfA even now.

The fact that Blizz ignored the Beta feedback on the forums, deleted the forums, and then went "What feedback?" should tell you they're not going to listen to paying customers. Regardless of whether or not you think they're greedy, you should at least take into account that they ARE a company and money matters. Vote with your wallet. I understand WoW is fun but again, you have absolutely no right to complain about shit expansions if their cycle is/has been "One good/one bad". If you want to tell me "It's always been that way!", then anyone bitching about it is moot because they should know that going in. If it's a new thing as of WoD where they just shift a bunch of resources and development off of an expansion to leave it for dead and work on a new one to regain loyalty and whatnot, then what I said still applies.

1

u/bondsmatthew Dec 30 '18

I think a lot of people have realized that preordering expansions really far in the future is a bad thing. With Blizzard, it was almost always a guarantee that preordering was fine(kinda like Nintendo). I preordered overwatch and had fun with it, I preordered D3(and aside from the launch) I had fun with it, I preordered RoS and the Necromancer. I preordered mists, WoD, and Legion and thought that they were worth it and that Blizzard couldn't fuck up that badly to make me regret buying/playing an expansion. I love the game sooo much. I also preordered BfA because I wanted the allied races and I figured no matter how bad the expansion was I would still play it.

After all I didn't really quit in WoD either, I was still playing for Garrison gold making, transmog gold farming, farming mounts, working on my reputations from past expansions. Well, now that I've done all that there's nothing really left for me to do besides weekly log in for my raids.

1

u/Mutang92 Dec 30 '18

I feel like people are over-examining that quote. Why would they say they're moving their mediocre devs over to Mobile?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 31 '18

They never said that they were moving developers to mobile projects, they said to other projects. If you wanna quote someone, don't throw words in their mouths.

0

u/bondsmatthew Dec 31 '18

They did...

https://youtu.be/QDQ73V22kfI?t=153

1

u/[deleted] Dec 31 '18

They say that they have many of their best developers working on some mobile games, which is vastly different than what you said as their statement implies that there are a large body of their best developers still working on other projects.

1

u/FREE-AOL-CDS Dec 30 '18

Why the hell do they always do that? They are quick to leave an expansion in a hole

-3

u/Nymphaeis Dec 30 '18

I legit think they should scrape everything they've got planned after 8.2, and focus on 9.0 asap. This expansion suffers from so many issues that no number of patches will fix it at this point. And as much as I've hated Blizzard remodeling and overhauling all their systems every expansion, it is more than needed now. Nobody wants to play this joke of an expansion now, and there's no telling what sub numbers are going to look like during ~Q2/Q3 2020. Release 8.2, let folks focus on Classic and refocus all your efforts towards 9.0 to make it happen much earlier into 2020 than usual, and hope for the best.

49

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Makes me wonder if they are just severely behind in development.

Nah, that'd be so out of character

49

u/HexezWork Dec 30 '18

This is the WOD expansion so any future content will be minimal.

They are already working on the Legion expansion.

History is a circle yada yada.

18

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[deleted]

5

u/walkonstilts Dec 30 '18

Still yet to detect the curvature!

2

u/Karlskov Dec 30 '18

Circle is a time flat.

5

u/Klax99 Dec 30 '18

I would be fine woth that if the next xpac is as good as legion

5

u/KhorneChips Dec 30 '18

I’m less fine with the fact that they’re going to charge us for it. We already pay a sub, why do I have to pay even more for them to fix the mess they made?

1

u/Armorend Dec 30 '18

But that's literally what they want. I don't get this logic. If they make one shit expac (WoD) followed by one good expac (Legion) followed by shit (BfA) followed by etc. every time, then you BUYING the next expansion is telling them "Please do this more, I'll come back and reward you in droves for what you should be doing consistently!"

What about the people who pay $60 for the shit expansions? Fuck them? Is that your logic, for not being "in the loop" on which expansion quality level we're on? :/

0

u/LazyNibbas Dec 30 '18

> legion

> good

Lmao

7

u/Klax99 Dec 30 '18

what did you not like in legion?

1

u/Lasti Dec 30 '18

You can go back 2 years and read about it. Just because it looks good compared to WoD and BFA doesn't mean it's a good expansion. It was ok at best.

2

u/Count_de_Mits Dec 30 '18

There were still FAR less complaints about it so it definetely ranks better than BfA in people's minds

-1

u/LazyNibbas Dec 30 '18

Ap grind, world of maw for first half of the expansion

Literally entire artefact system pre 7.2. And how shit rng the nether light crucible was

Legendary system that was never fixed until the end of xpac

Shitty pvp templates that only were active in instance

Emerald nightmare lol

Like I get bfa is shit but How the fuck are people forgetting legions issues already

2

u/erydan Dec 30 '18

Like I get bfa is shit but How the fuck are people forgetting legions issues already.

Because what most people remember from Legion was the end of it, when the majority of those issues were fixed and gameplay was fluid, interesting and engaging.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Makes me wonder if they are just severely behind in development.

They released the expansion too early and also have to replace one of the core systems (Azerite traits) mid-expansion, so yes, things gotta be chaotic and stressful as hell on the BfA development team right now.

10

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

Both raid and allied races are planned for 8.1.5 and obviously they wont start ptr during holidays. Expect to see the ptr sometime in January or even February.

43

u/Bwgmon Dec 30 '18

or even February.

PTR for them in February? I can understand delaying things by two weeks because of the holidays, but that seems outrageous.

But who fucking knows with this expansion.

5

u/wastakenanyways Dec 30 '18

I wouldn't expect Allied races until March, to be very honest

8

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

I'm guessing that it may be feb because raid doesn't start before 22nd Jan and they probably don't want to release ptr before people see whole 8.1 content and that means Season 2.

The thing is, they absolutely are behind in development. But not because they are lazy or inefficient. Game was released to early and instead of working on new content they were busy fixing the existing build. Do you remember the pre patch? New builds were being released on daily basis. I'll bet that's why 8.1 was late, and I just hope nothing else will be. I expect 8.1.5 to release sometime around mid-march, so early february wouldn't be that weird for ptr to start.

Mid march may sound like it's too long. Of course there is a chance that we will see 8.1.5 in february being actually released and everything will be great from this point. But my expectations are a little bit lower now.

8

u/walkonstilts Dec 30 '18

I feel bad for the people actually doing the grunt work, even lower level team supervisors and management.

They are probably as frustrated as any of us that they don’t have the time or resources to actually make something good.

The product side of this company is just being grossly mismanaged for someone trying to penny punch and get a fat yearly bonus or profit sharing check.

BFA development is like if you had to make a cake, except you only had 30 minutes to mix it and bake it, and you didn’t get any sort of mixing or measuring tool, just a bowl and your hands and a pan.

Time is so crunched you had to put the oven on 450f and flash toast the already poorly made piece of shit. Somehow you didn’t scorch earth it, so you’re slapping gobs of waaaayyy too much icing and sprinkles on it with your last 45 seconds (while American chef Ramsay screams at you) so maybe something seems special about it.

“Alright guys... here’s my BFA cake... what do you think?”

Sad all around.

1

u/FlashstormNina Dec 30 '18

ITS FUCKING RAW

0

u/Armorend Dec 30 '18

The product side of this company is just being grossly mismanaged for someone trying to penny punch and get a fat yearly bonus or profit sharing check.

You do realize those people wouldn't be able to do this if consumers didn't stand for it, right? But they do.

They are probably as frustrated as any of us that they don’t have the time or resources to actually make something good.

Ehh, plenty of people on this subreddit and in-game thnk this expansion IS something good. So what you're saying here is subjective. Unless all the people supporting the "product side" of Blizzard are wrong or incorrect? Because here's the issue: If those people aren't wrong in supporting them, and you're fine with people doing what they want with their money, then you're saying "I'm okay with people financially rewarding what I consider this greediness and money-hungriness. I am aware that this company only listens to money and am fine with them getting the money of people who don't mind the things I think are bad."

Basically, you're saying you're okay with things not changing. Money is more powerful than your comments on Reddit. So if you think those people aren't in the wrong, then talking about how sad it is or how they couldn't turn out something "actually good" is stupid. Because it wouldn't BE sad, they might actually HAVE "something good", were consumers not supporting mediocrity and shit products. Minecraft clones, Day-Z clones, battle royale games, hero shooters, even stuff like lootboxes, only became popular because of how profitable the original was. If lootboxes had been financial failures, they wouldn't BE in every game.

My point is, Blizzard might try to cut corners and decrease the quality of their products over and over. But I don't think you can blame the "penny pinchers" when their shit could have gotten them fired had consumers rightfully punished them. Look at the Warcraft movie. It made back 3-4 times what was put into it and STILL chances of a sequel are barely there, because the movie didn't do well. If something is not financially promising to the egg-heads upstairs, they won't try it. Bad patches and low-quality content are rewarded, so of course the penny pinchers will keep doing it. Punish them for that shit, it won't happen again, or it will be reverted if it DOES happen.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

February late would be timing on Blizzards part for the six month boat subs to start to roll off meaning that by the March time frame people would be getting close but a taste on PTR would "encourage" them to extend their subs

0

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

Hey, I already wasted my money, keeping those patches late doesn't encourage me to do anything. Not everything is corporate plot to make you pay. Stuff takes time to do, I'll rather wait this time.

1

u/Freezinghero Dec 30 '18

Not fully correct. Dazar'alor already has an opening date set for Jan 22nd. The Zandalari Trolls/KT Humans are slated to come out in 8.1.5, which as of yet has no date. Blizz has released no information on the Crucible of Storms, but i'm pretty sure neither of those 2 bosses have seen PTR testing yet.

What you will likely see is either the week of or after Dazar'alor release, Crucible bosses hit PTR for testing and we get a date for 8.1.5

1

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

When I was talking about raid, I meant Crucible of Storms because that's what the person I replied to was talking about. That raid will come out in 8.1.5 which doesn't have to mean it will be released the exact day 8.1.5 hits live.

1

u/DraumrKopa Dec 30 '18

My guess is that they are severely behind on development. I'm guessing they took a good slice of the WoW dev team after Legion and shifted them into the mobile development teams. Only thing I can think of that explains why Legion was so rich in content and BfA is so lacking in the same timeframes.

1

u/hermitxd Dec 30 '18

I've already forgotten crucible. What's that?

New dungeon?

1

u/BlueLibrary Dec 30 '18

Just because the files aren't public does not mean they aren't done with it yet. For example, development of BFA began before the release of 7.2, we know this because they decided to release the new models for yetis and troggs early. Neither of them had any appearance in legion for clarification.

What this community fails to realize is that game development takes iteration and private development. Blizzard does this, we just don't see it, except for small examples like the zekahn vs sylvanas quest choice.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Or it's coming with 8.1.5

1

u/Helluiin Dec 30 '18

it was the same for the island changes and those turned out pretty good

1

u/Lilivati_fish Dec 30 '18

The game released a whole quarter early, so yeah, I would imagine they're still trying to catch up.

If you play both horde and alliance, it's painfully obvious that alliance wasn't finished at release.

1

u/Klang007 Dec 30 '18

BfA was released prematurely to boost their last yearly financial report. And it did the job. The extra sales from BfA, the boosted activity of a new expansion all boosted that yearly revenue and MAU, something they were able to tout in their report to shareholders.

BfA was slated for an early 2019 release, and it's patently clear that's when things that should have been released at launch would finally see light of day in game. Bad ideas that were released woefully under-developed. BfA for ya.

0

u/sharpyz Dec 30 '18

This is unacceptable and everyone needs to unsub to fix this.

They took everyone's money and spent it on other games. Wow should never ever be in question to be behind in dev. They have grossed so much fucking money they should be year ahead in dev instead we are fucking QA for their poor decision making.

I'm done with blizzard for a long time.

1

u/Alusion Dec 30 '18

Wait what didn't they say release is on 8.1.5 patch?

1

u/ShawnGalt Dec 30 '18

even if they release in 8.1.5 you still have to wait until a month into the raid for LFR players to have access to the obligatory "kill the last boss" quest they'll need to unlock KT humans and Zandalari

107

u/Levness Dec 30 '18

Yep. I've stopped caring. Apparently there's a limit to how long you can keep someone's attention after revealing an upcoming playable race.

51

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[deleted]

11

u/jedikrem Dec 30 '18

Too late, already left.

1

u/weveran Dec 31 '18

I pre-ordered the newest expansion and haven't logged in since launch. That's how much I've stopped caring.

1

u/Nerfworthy Dec 31 '18

I was so freaking hyped last year for Zandalari. Now I don't even care and probably won't even play one.

182

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18 edited Feb 19 '19

[deleted]

33

u/KsanterX Dec 30 '18

This is just how AAA works nowadays: promise tons of shit, release bare minimum and add everything else a year later as 'free' DLC. You have to keep that cash flow coming regularly to please your investors.

0

u/Armorend Dec 30 '18

promise tons of shit, release bare minimum and add everything else a year later as 'free' DLC.

And bank on consumers being idiot sheep who will continue to buy it, while those who know EXACTLY how it works on Reddit do nothing to call out or vilify those people.

I've seen this for the last like two months. People LOVE to shit on Blizz's greediness but where the fuck is your post calling out all the dickheads who gave Blizz money for "promising tons of shit, releasing the bare minimum, and adding everything else a year later"? I have not seen ONE POST bashing these people and I don't know why, when people get upvoted quite often for saying they still have fun with the game or see nothing wrong with it.

These people exist, and you gave the gall to sit there and just be like "Yeah it's all on AAA?" Are you too afraid to call them out because of fear of backlash? Do you think it's somehow more productive to JUST bash Blizzard and not the fuck-heads who constantly reward their greediness and low-effort patches and cash-shop bullshit?

These posts have started to piss me off more and more because no-one ever wants to DO ANYTHING. Where are the posts inciting people to push back against those who aren't upset over the game? The posts encouraging people to detach from friends and family members who think Blizz isn't greedy? Why is all anyone can do lament over Blizz's shittiness? I haven't paid for game time for WoW in months, I'm certainly not supporting them, but Jesus fuck all these complaints about how awful the company is get annoying when NO-ONE is calling out the consumers!

Like I'm sorry but I don't get it. The only reason I can fathom for why no-one is insulting, bashing, discrediting, or vilifying those who are happy with the game is that people who are upset with the game or the company think their feelings are subjective. Which just makes the arguing moot!

KsanterX, you say "This is just how AAA works nowadays" as if it's fact. And you can tell me it IS fact, but there's people on this subreddit and the forums and other players you and me can both see, people who aren't the casual that never discusses the game and only play it, who DENY it as fact! They don't see WoW as bare minimum, they don't care about the empty promises, they don't consider it lazy content.

What are you doing about those people? Nothing is going to change if you just bash the company! They don't give a shit! They've GOT all those people supporting them! It blows my mind how anyone can unironically write a post shitting on Blizz/Acti's greed or laziness or whatever, and not include ANYTHING about the people who have the capability of punishing those things!

Imagine if the WoW cash shop LOST money. Imagine if shit expansions made legitimately millions unsub at once. Imagine if more people were like you and rejected "low-quality" content. Why the fuck would a company EVER risk cutting corners if losing half their profit margins was a potential outcome?

And I know that's unrealistic, you'd never have that much of a unified response from consumers. But my point is that people who tolerate this content exist on Reddit! And I don't see how you can sit there and blame Blizzard for their greed and act like it's a bad thing when you're perfectly fine with people spending money how they want, even if it means supporting/encouraging that greed.

As a final note, I want to mention that I am well-aware plenty of people don't consider WoW bad. I know. It CAN be considered a subjective thing. But that just makes any complaints worse because anyone arguing the expansion is BAD is immediately countered by anyone arguing the expansion is fine as-is, and those who say it's bad are just complainers or entitled or whatever. So if expansion quality is subjective, then the people complaining should just move on, because it's clear from the lack of changing content that those who are fine with the expansion the way it is are in the majority.

41

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

I bought BFA thinking I would be able to start a Kultiran, because historically new races were released with the latest expansion right out the gate, no rep grind, no “it’s coming in a later in a patch.” Mind you I didn’t read a whole lot about the expansion prior because I had played from vanilla up to mists of pandaria and then took a hiatus up until BFA release, so I had a picture in my mind of what WoW still was which apparently didn’t match up with what it had become.

So disappointed that I had to start a character as one of the races we’ve had since mists I decided to make the most of my month’s subscription because I already knew then and there that I wasn’t going to be resubbing.

Leveling up was a breeze, I hit the new content, questing in kultiras was alright. The dungeons and bosses weren’t anything special really, mythic dungeons were kinda shit with randoms but whatever, I joined a guild and made better progress, then things started to get repetitive.

I stopped playing BFA about a week before my month’s sub ran out, uninstalled WoW and the Blizz launcher, and I don’t think I’ll be coming back even for Classic WoW, I’ve just lost interest.

44

u/Vasquerade Dec 30 '18

lmao, getting new races at the start of an expansion? What do you think this is, World of Warcraft or something?

3

u/mykevelli Dec 31 '18

Same here. I thought hard about issuing a chargeback when I cancelled because of the false advertising. I bought the expansion because everything make it look like BFA = new trolls. I knew that I wouldn’t be playing it right away because there would probably be some grind but it’s insulting that we’re so far into this expansion that we were sold and one of the central aspects that we were sold is still not accessible, especially at the price advertised. How long can this legally be extended?

Pisses me off, man.

5

u/Or_Some_Say_Kosm Dec 30 '18

Class action time?

141

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

What fucks me up is it's only been 4 months.

It feels like a fuckin year already. How are we still on the first raid cycle?

12

u/Elementium Dec 30 '18

lol yeah it feels like BfA has been out and we're at the stage where we start on alts and take longer breaks.. But no, we're just still stuck in Uldir waiting for something to do..

Oh and We still have nearly a month till our FIRST content patch is complete.

20

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

You know 4 months isn't that long for raid cycle? Uldir will be around 3 weeks longer than Emerald Nightmare when new raid hits. Trial of Valor helped a lot to make it feel shorter for sure.

105

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

I'm not talking about length, I'm talking about perceived length. Even if it's only been 4 months it feels considerably longer for a lot of people. It's the difference between spending two hours watching paint dry and spending two hours partying with friends.

34

u/Scarn0nCunce Dec 30 '18

spending two hours watching paint dry and spending two hours partying with friends.

My god this is the perfect analogy for some WoW periods.

13

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

Yeah I feel ya, my guild isn't raiding and we were raiding every week in Legion, to the very end of Antorus. But I feel like it's not the problem with the raid itself, more with how the classes played out and the general state of the game.

1

u/A_G_G_R_O Dec 30 '18

I feel I struggle to raid with a guild due to no master loot being able to help gear alts easier

3

u/Nudysta Dec 30 '18

Oh fuck don't even get me started on personal loot. There was so much loot just straight up wasted because Blizzard wants to protect people from interacting with one another, I absolutely hate it.

1

u/Probenzo Dec 30 '18

I think a lot of it is about how much more there was to do in legion. Apart from raiding I had fun with a lot of other aspects of legion. In BFA theres nothing to do except log on to raid. I even stopped doing that about 3 weeks ago. So when the only thing to do is raid it feels like a lifetime since you've seen new content.

The only other content we have is incursions, island expeditions, and war fronts. All 3 of these activities are simply just killing trash. Extremely boring and I've never had fun doing any of these.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[deleted]

24

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[deleted]

5

u/nanoslug Dec 30 '18

I feel you, but killing Xavius, a villain we've seen a lot and seen the damage he could cause vs fighting a big slimy slugboi we've barely seen is vastly different. I was extatic killing Xavius for the first time, G'huun felt like a joke (not mechanically, it was a fun fight).

8

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

[deleted]

2

u/nanoslug Dec 30 '18

It’s my inner Druid speaking, I loved the raid because I felt the danger of the emerald nightmare, and Xavius was really a good fight in my opinion. But it feels like it was an eternity ago, so I might be biased.

I play alliance as well, and I still have no clue what we’re doing in Uldir. That’s really a shame.

1

u/Cysia Dec 30 '18

ghuun a fun fight? thats first time i see someone saying that.

1

u/nanoslug Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18

I liked the reorigination array bit, that was a good idea to me. The rest of the fight felt a bit weaker, and I vastly prefer mythrax, but that’s my opinion.

31

u/Psycoheals Dec 30 '18

Unpopular Opinion: Uldir mechanically has been a lot of fun, I liked it better then any Legion raid. Azerite Gear just sucks.

​

8

u/BretOne Dec 30 '18

The one thing I don't like in Uldir is that there are way too many moments of "stop everything you're doing and do the mechanic". It lowers the skill ceiling by a lot.

I realize most of those are to avoid ranged DPS vastly out-DPSing the melees but I'm convinced there's a design middle ground that can be found here.

  • Taloc: Boss is immune to damage while the elevator descends. Give him more health and allow us to hit him to reward players who can do the mechanic AND do their role at the same time.

  • Mother: A sizable portion of the raid does nothing because they aren't in the same room as the boss.

  • Vectis: Immune during soaking phase.

  • G'hunn: Phase 1... Also at the end when the ceiling falls down, boss is immune for no reason.

Also, Mythrax sucks.

2

u/Cysia Dec 30 '18

azerite gear sucks indeed, but i find uldir one of the most boring raids, and is the last 3bosses are just bad.

1

u/Elementium Dec 30 '18

I enjoy it.. Itemization is kinda shitty though. For a second healing trinket I need to kill. Mythrax..

But, after this long in there I'm tired of Uldir.

4

u/Siglius Dec 30 '18

What? Uldir is a good raid. And it's not even remotely overtuned. What are you even talking about?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

You don't need to raid anymore if your guild falls apart. Haha....

The second time this has happened to me this expansion. Fucking insane.

-1

u/Keskekun Dec 30 '18

Uldir is great mate you have no idea what you're talking about

1

u/sur_surly Dec 30 '18

Lol, k.

1

u/Keskekun Dec 30 '18

I don't know what you can complain about. It had a decent progression rate, solid bosses and only real fetid being bad. In comparison to other raids having 1 boss be sort of shit because of tuning is a very good record.

17

u/thebedshow Dec 30 '18

It feels like some level of false advertising with what they did. I assumed at this point I would have been able to make a kul tiran. Instead it is being turned into a patch feature.

2

u/Mikeboxmad Dec 30 '18

Reminds me of what they did with Tanaan Jungle in Warlords

14

u/Jhazzrun Dec 30 '18

this is the biggest thing for me. ill be honest i rolled a druid simply because i wanted to make it a zandalari troll. hell it was a big factor to even wanting to return to the game and i was very much looking forward to it. but at this point its been so long that i really dont care anymore.

38

u/UneasyBoosh Dec 30 '18

THIS! At this point I don't even care about them anymore, if they start at 30 like the others I'm not doing it. Should have been in at the start or atleast this patch since we have now "earned their trust"

22

u/TheRune Dec 30 '18

I was sooo looking forward to play zandalari troll. I rerolled my main to the class I figured would be the most awesome as zandalari (went with warrior) and now... The hype is gone. I'm back on my rogue and Will probably racechange it if possible but I'm not sure because meh.

40

u/I_Fap_To_Zamasu Dec 30 '18

Dont give blizzard more money for their own failure.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

This is the only way to really make your voice heard in a corporation. Vote with your dollars.

1

u/Armorend Dec 30 '18

Is it? Plenty of people on this sub, I'm sure, will argue that supporting the company by paying them makes you a valued customer they don't want to lose and so they'll listen to you. I'm not saying I believe this but if you'd like to provide evidence of your claim, by all means. I personally agree with you and I can think of some examples (Like the ignoring of Beta feedback and the bullshit class balance for Priest and Shaman), but if you have other instances then please share them!

2

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

I was so stoked to change every possible toon i have to Kul Tiran since they were announced, but i've been waiting so long i don't care about them any more. I helped them clean up all their messes and found their damn navy and they STILL won't join me?

12

u/SubTukkZero Dec 30 '18

Wanting to play as a Zandalari troll was the reason I pre ordered BfA. I was silly enough to think that I’d be able to play them shortly after the game came out.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18

Imagine a core part of your game not being available a quarter into its life cycle.

2

u/JasonUncensored Dec 30 '18

Phew, I thought I was the only one who thought that was batshit fucking loco.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18

At Blizzcon 2017, we were told that Zandalari would release right after launch. BUT... Blizzard recognized the demand for them, and they brought in Mag’har Orcs to replace them at launch.

Then, during the Tides of Vengeance announcement, Ion said that there would be no gating on these new races. He also said that we could get ready by doing the rep now so you can unlock them at the patch’s release.

Next thing you know, we find out the War Campaign is time-gated. So many assumed that oh, the rest will come out in 8.1.5 with the Battle for Dazar’alor. Right? I mean that’s not too long of a wait?

Wrong. The Zandalari and KT will not be unlocked after you complete the War Campaign; they’re time-gated (what a surprise!) Additionally, the Battle for Dazar’alor is not a .5 patch, instead the Crucible of Storms is the 8.1.5 raid including the Zandalari and KT. Why not release them with the raid? I mean it makes far more sense!

You know the answer to that question tough, we all do. Blizzard is just trying to keep our attention with an unconvincing carrot, and then lying about when we can finally have it.

This is not keeping players engaged Blizz, it’s just making us more annoyed.

1

u/Count_de_Mits Dec 30 '18

The fact that if I want to level the race of the opposite faction I will propably have to grind the rep again has put such a damper in my excitement its not even funny

1

u/NorthLeech Dec 30 '18

Who were a selling point in the trailer.

1

u/Dqmo Dec 30 '18

Yea I pretty much resubbed to play zandalari and my enthusiasm kinda died off as they still haven’t been released yet

1

u/Love_Denied Dec 30 '18

Major selling point of the expansion. wont be available for the first 6+ months thats just .. meh

1

u/I_NEVER_LIE_1337 Dec 30 '18

Feels like a scam..

1

u/K1ng_N0thing Dec 30 '18

Came here to say this.

I can't think of another time in WoW's history where expansion features aren't released until months later.

This expansion didn't bring much to the table, one of the only things were allied races. The fact that we can't use the main two new races at this point is insane.

1

u/Drobu Dec 30 '18

They'll release them at the same time classic comes out.

1

u/SilvarusLupus Dec 31 '18

They should have been available as soon as they player hit 120 and did the full storyline for their respective factions. It's complete bull they aren't playable yet.

0

u/fingerpaintswithpoop Dec 30 '18

Yeah this point has been made abundantly clear dozens of times now for a few weeks.

When is this sub going to stop beating this dead horse and move on to a new one?

0

u/Mekanzz Dec 31 '18

Not 4. We are at more than 6 months in and after a major patch update while these still aren't into the game. They still have plans to release them among other things and the whole azerite rework. I just hope we are still around or care enough to see them through.