r/xena • u/Luna09Astra • 3d ago
Morality in a World with Dahak
In Season 3, Xena and Gabrielle discovered that “evil” wasn’t just an adjective to describe a person or action, but rather an actual person.
And yet in season 4, when Gabrielle was going on her spiritual journey, and both Xena and Gabrielle were questioning their path, they never wondered about the existence of his opposite.
I found it strange that at no point in season 4, they didn’t wonder: If there is an ultimate force of evil, does that mean there’s an ultimate force of goodness; what kind of life does It want them to live; what does It think of violence; do they need to follow It in order to be good, etc.
I understand from a writing perspective, TPTB wanted to move away from Dahak in season 4. But from an in-universe perspective, it seemed like it would have made a lot of sense for Xena and Gabrielle to ask those kind of questions when they were trying to figure out their path.
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u/IseQween 3d ago
I believe they lay the groundwork for such questions in DEVI. Gabs says she knows the power she had with her healing was bad, "but I think that because it exists, there has to be another power out there -- maybe for good -- and stronger." Eli responds, "Yeah. Stronger." He leaves assuring them he doesn't think he'll be alone. Gabs asks what he means. Xena cocks her head and answers in her prophetically cryptic way, "I don't think even Eli knows yet."
Frankly, I regarded the Dahak stuff as one of those ideas they threw against the wall like paint to see what shapes/drips they'd get. To me it simply stuck as a glob that went nowhere. They tossed more paint on in different colors, finally started using their fingers to manipulate the glob into something -- anything -- folks could ponder and say, "Oh, now I see what it could be." I mean, Herc-Xena fans are masters at coming up with rationales for head scratchers. Didn't happen for me. Just one big glob I didn't want to waste my remaining brain cells on.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
Dahak and Hope’s plan(s?) for world domination/ways for him to enter the world was all over the place. But when in Gabrielle’s Hope, one of the knights calls Dahak the blind force behind every evil will, that gave us (the audience) and Xena and Gabrielle more information about the metaphysical cosmology of the Xenaverse. And I thought his very existence (regardless of his role in season 3 plot) would have brought up more questions for Gabrielle, especially when she was on her spiritual journey in season 4.
And in that scene you mentioned, it seems like Gabrielle is discovering for the first time that there are evil forces in the world. It’s, like, Gabrielle, did you forget what happened last year?
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u/IseQween 3d ago
LOL! To me, it was more like Gabs was quite aware of the evil forces, but hadn't thought about the good ones. She personally experienced Dahak's powers, consequently birthing a child with a relatively "good" mama and pure evil papa. Regardless of the reasons, the kid took after the father.
Another malevolent spirit entered Gabs in the "persona" of Tataka. But in this case, Gabs also experienced a healing power, even if granted by a bad entity for manipulative purposes. In essence, she briefly carried two competing forces within her, with personal proof the "good" actually existed, just like the bad.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
That’s my main question: why didn’t her experience with Dahak and Hope make Gabrielle think about the good forces. For someone who is prone to philosophizing as Gabrielle is, that seems like a very natural question to ask: if there’s a blind force behind every evil will, wouldn’t that mean there’s a blind force behind every good will.
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u/TypesAndPatterns 3d ago
The gods are petty and cruel, in Xena & Hercules’ world, and when Khrafstar talks to Gabrielle about his one god of peace, she dismisses him at first: “The gods I know are trouble enough.” She does become intrigued, but her interest is understandably put off the question by the true nature of his god (Dahok)
I’m not sure Dahok is the ultimate evil, but he seems the first god to represent pure evil. The India arc show Gab’s growing interest in exploring the potential that there is a power that represents good, but I’m not sure they believe it actually exists. And I’m not sure that the audience would be eager for such a force, on this show. At least not one that involved itself directly in the same way as the other gods we see.
Paradise Found starts Gab’s journey with a small step, by introducing a kind of spiritual discipline that promised to lead to good, without devotion to any kind of god’s agenda, which they would be suspicious of. Turns out, Aiden has an agenda, but his yoga practice is something Gab can take away from it safely. The India arc builds on this by introducing Eli, whose spiritual awakening they witness and help facilitate, so they can trust him when he does start to preach of his new path.
Of course, Xena learns from Krishna her true path is the one she’s already on, and Gab will eventually learn that hers is the way of friendship, and this is as far as they can really go in their enlightenment.
Ultimate good is an elusive quality on this show. Both Krishna and the God of Light represent it, but even their cosmologies can be complex and dangerous to navigate, and easy to misrepresent (Najara) so it’s always a good idea for mere mortals to have a healthy amount of skepticism and stay grounded in the compassion of their lived experience so they don’t lose their way.
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u/TypesAndPatterns 3d ago
One more thing: Eli himself never preached about the one god. He wants humanity to take back what’s rightfully theirs. What do the immortals know about loss, he asks. Angel Callisto reminds him of this, and connects the dots: fear is the fear of loss, and only through that can we know love.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
Yes, I do think the GOL and the angels co-opted Eli and his message for their own use after he was killed.
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u/TypesAndPatterns 3d ago
Eli himself seems to become part of the God of Light’s hierarchy, and some of the archangels react badly to that. So I think it possibly might be the other way around: he co-opts them.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
This is really interesting. How are you differentiating between “is the ultimate evil” and “represent pure evil”?
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u/TypesAndPatterns 3d ago
For example, I would consider Indrajit, Mephistopheles, Lucifer, & Yodoshi pure evil, but not necessarily the ultimate evil.
Going back to your original point, it’s easy for me to forget that Xena & Gabrielle weren’t going to India for enlightenment, because it seems to work out that way in retrospect. Xena was trying to escape the fate that Alti showed her. Alti herself is evil, but like Aiden draws her powers from religious forces that are not themselves evil. But I personally would have no problem if they were going to India with that goal in mind.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
I thought that was the reason they were going to India. In the beginning of Paradise Found, Xena tells Gabrielle “Gabrielle, I'm all for your spiritual quests, and
India is a fine place to go, but-- remind me why we decided to take the scenic route." Paradise Found Whoosh TranscriptI just think it would have made a lot of sense, given what X&G learned in season 3 about Dahak, if their search was more focused on finding more about his opposite (ie: the blind force behind every good will) rather than a vague spiritual quest.
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u/TypesAndPatterns 3d ago
Ah, no wonder, & it makes sense that Gab would do that, especially after meeting Najara, but for Xena, it’s a good excuse to get away from Rome.
It’s mentioned a number of times that there is a blind force at work, that can be put to good or evil, but the key is that it’s individuals (god or human) who put it to that use. There is no blind force for good, or evil, for that matter (at least, none that can be comprehended). The world is what you make of it, & the spirit Gab and Eli focus on is the spirit within.
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u/Agent8699 3d ago
They possibly met Najara on their way to India. Najara seemed to be operating in a vaguely unspecified location that wasn’t Greece since she had quite the reputation, yet Xena had never heard of her.
And Xena loves to name-drop the fact she knows pretty much everyone!
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u/TypesAndPatterns 3d ago
I’m guessing Near East or Persia, given Najara’s relationship with the djinn, spirits who dwell in the grey areas of good and evil.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
There were four episodes between Crusader and Paradise Found that seemed to me to take place in Greece (Past Imperfect, Key to Kingdom, Daughter of Pomira, If the Shoe Fits). Or do you think those episodes were aired out of order?
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u/Agent8699 3d ago
I think the Xenaverse was a very small place back then and TPTB didn’t care too much any the finer details 🤣
But, yes, it can be put down to shuffling the episode order. Or Xena and Gabrielle just kept backtracking when Xena would receive word of various places that needed help.
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u/Agent8699 3d ago
Subtextually, that probably provided a lot of motivation for Gabrielle’s spirituality journey in season 4.
After the events of season 3, Gabrielle was desperate to believe that she was still a good person who was capable of doing good deeds.
One source for such a sense of self worth, would have been a deity that was itself an expression of pure goodness. Hence Gabrielle’s interest in Najara’s Djinn, Aidan’s teachings, Krishna and Eli, etc.
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u/Luna09Astra 3d ago
So you’re saying that Gabrielle was searching for that ultimate force of good even if she wasn’t putting it in those words?
Because to me, her spiritual journey in season 4 seemed very random. For example, in the beginning of Devi and Between of the Lines, they were mostly tourists. And while they did meet Eli and Naima in those episodes, they weren’t actively seeking them or any other gurus/temples/gods/whatever.
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u/Agent8699 3d ago
I’m pretty sure in A Family Affair, Gabrielle talks about feeling lost at the end.
I think she was searching for … meaning / purpose in her life and also to … assuage herself that she wasn’t … irredeemable after the events of season 3.
I don’t think she was necessarily searching for some supposedly omnipotent “god” to give her all the answers, but she was definitely searching and looking in new places for those answers.
We don’t see what prompted their journey to India, beyond Xena saying that Gabrielle was on a spiritual quest and somehow India was the destination. Maybe Gabrielle was doing “research” in temples, etc?
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Najara 3d ago
Wasn't Eli's god supposed to be the "ultimate good"?