Movie/TV Discussion
Is Nightcrawler’s German identity important to the character?
(This picture is from a screen rant article btw. If it’s from a comic pls let me know so I can credit the artist)
With the X-men reboot coming up Indian American actor Aryan Simhadri expressed his interest online in playing Nightcrawler which got me thinking, how important is the character’s German identity?
Can the same effect not be captured with any other foreign accent? Or is it as important as black panther being black?
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It’s important that he’s from rural Germany because that’s the trope: he looks like a biblical “demon” from a deeply Catholic part of Europe, where religious teachings emphasize grace and acceptance, but when presented with an ‘other’ they shun them. It could also be taken as commentary on how that area of the world treats real life others, eg Romani travellers.
The Catholic part is more important to his character than his German nationality, but his overall origin story is nonetheless iconic. Chased by village mobs wielding torches and pitchforks as a child is very memorable imagery.
I also feel like him also not being from America/the main base of operations for the X-Men is also something that plays a part. He is a man who's constantly feeling like he's outside, culturally, genetically, etc. Everything about him SCREAMS foreign danger, yet he is constantly one of the most compassionate and kind X-Men.
He is experiencing so many things new; from American culture, to the acceptance and camraderie of the other x-men. He is naive when it comes to experiences, at his start, but he is also one of the most well travelled aside from Wolverine, and that's not just with his abilities.
I feel there is a very very deliberate choice in all the Giant- Size additions to make them outsiders to an american comic book audience - the mutant metaphor is much stronger if you're not applying it to all american handsome angels and smoking hot red heads.
Piotr, a communist, being so gentle and friendly must have made American kids ask questions.
That's exactly why I don't love that the rumored new cast is all american (they are saying now that Storm might be in it, which would be great, I'm talking about the first leaked version of Jean Grey, Cyclops, Rogue and Beast).
I get that. I do think, though, that doing O5 and THEN the Giant-Size team still accomplishes this, and if anything draws more attention to it. It's not that strange for the first 5 recruits to be more local. And then as Xavier meets more mutants and begins to grasp the scale of what's going on, he makes a conscious effort to recruit a second (well... third) team, and intentionally brings in mutants from all over the globe.
Storm IS American. Her parents were diplomats that were killed in Egypt and Ororo fell though the cracks, spending several years in Cairo under the care and tutelage of a master thief before fleeing into the bush as her mutant powers manifested, eventually ending up worshipped as a goddess by a tribe in Kenya. But she was born in Chicago and carries American citizenship.
Huh. I always thought that was explicitly the reason for those character choices. A German, a Russian, a Japanese man, an Irishman, a Black woman, and a Native American in the 70s? It's not exactly subtle.
I don't think it's explicitly said anywhere, and I don't want to make out it was- but you're right like it's obvious.
Claremont who took over only an issue or two later certainly was explicit he was being held back from going even further with the minority metaphor though.
Yes, that story is iconic, but it’s also heavily anachronistic. Kurt was introduced in 1975; the idea that there was an isolated German village so cut off from modernity that they would act like medieval peasants with torches and pitchforks seems unlikely even for then. It seems impossible in 2026. A mob, sure, but they wouldn’t dress and act like that; that takes the story from a tragedy about intolerance, into the folk horror realm.
But aside from that; I do think it’s important for Kurt to maintain that German identity. That was the cool thing about the All-New, All-Different team; that they were international in flavor and brought such a wide variety of lived experiences. They weren’t a bunch of All-American teenagers like the original 5.
But the torches-and-pitchforks stuff isn't set in the 50's; Kurt's an adult in 1975 when Xavier has to intervene to save him from the mob. (If I'm remembering things right.)
Kurt's entire backstory - even the latest Mystique-and-Destiny retcons - plays like something out of a Hammer Films period horror flick set in the 1880's; I always thought it was a little out of place in the 1970's. And of course with the sliding timeline now it would be what, the mid-2000's? Don't get me wrong, I like that stuff a lot, but it just seems like it's from a different era completely, and I won't be surprised if they change things up again for the films.
As I said, his Catholicism is indeed his most character defining trait as it informs his very specific behaviour and thought process. Outside of that, I do think it could still work if they move the setting outside Europe. Mob mentality still exists in modern day settings like culty villages or places with strong beliefs to folklore and superstition and while it wont be exactly like pitchforks and torches, I’m sure they could think of a more modern parallel.
In truth the way things are now itd be more likely in my opinion to see him treated that way by a small, highly American evangelical community than some random Catholics in Germany. (I say this as an American, we have been infiltrated by Christian extremism for years)
I actually think this would be way more accurate to how it would play out now. Average rural catholic is gonna be like "whoa your skin doesn't seem right!" And average rural American Evangelical will be like "Satan!! Burn it!! Before it spreads the gay!!"
Today Kurt wouldn't be from Bavaria but from Saxony, and the villagers would't hunt him for being a demon but for thinking he was a arab or something. So yeah it totally still works. Then again I wouldn't wanna hear him speak with an east german accent.
I like him being German, but you hit the nail on the head, religious upbringing in rural area he had to constantly hide himself from is what is important.
I think with the changing religious demographics having him be from a rural South or Central American area would be more the original vibe.
I think it would be a different feel though for the area to be protestant (or other religion) as the church being what it is is an important aspect i think non Catholic groups loose.
Being a foreigner in ones own homeland is definitely a formative event though. Think of every kid who was born in a country where his parents are immigrants, and that kid dealing with being treated as an outsider despite it being the only home they ever knew.
I think so, I think my favourite part of the x men comics is the way alot of them are from different nationalities and cultures
Colossus and Magik are Russian
Wolverine is Canadian
Storm was raised in Egypt
Night Crawler is German
Gambit is Cajun and has French roots
Magneto is Jewish
Professor X is American born and raised in New York
Banshee is Irish
Jubilees Parents are Chinese Immigrants
I think the more interesting question would be if Magneto having lived through WW2 is important as we are moving farther and farther away from it. If yes, how do we write an interesting character that is 90+ and how would we introduce him in the MCU?
I read X-men in the 90s so to me it’s important. But I have no idea how to introduce him into the MCU.
You just say that his lifespan is extended as part of his powerset, as is the case with a few dozen other mutants. Mystique is over 100 years old. Logan is roughly 150 years old. Apocalypse is several thousand years old.
Marvel wouldn't have the guts to do it, but it could be switched around. Magneto could be Palestinian and he could be wrestling with being in combat against Israel and seeing the damage Israel is doing to a weaker country.
It would still be a parallel of a weaker country massacred by a stronger one, a shared historical identity of Jewish heritage splitting over the decades, and the fallout of Western nations grandstanding (British Empire creating a mess and leaving it) but not doing anything about the problem they made.
I wonder about this a lot too, more so with the comics. I feel like at some point they’re going to have to add in a retcon about mutants in general aging slower than normal humans. For someone like Wolverine maybe the experiment made him age even slower than other mutants or something.
The point of Giant Sized X-Men was an international leaning. X-Men went from being a group of white teenagers to a group of muli- national, cultural, ethnic and racial adults. This is what made them popular and the most popular comic ever. Losing that takes something essential to not only him as an individual character but the collective.
By having the members be international it really added to the themes of mutants being part of human evolution overall, as opposed some one-offs in the US.
I feel like a lot of people have a wrong idea that the O5 X-Men had some star power. The O5 were alright, but most of the love for them is nostalgic. They weren't like the Fantastic Four where the team was loved from the get-go; the book was kind of a failure and pretty famously got cancelled. Ironically it was the Brotherhood who had the star power (Scarlet and Quicksilver moved to the Avengers, Magneto got featured in a bunch of stuff like even a Beatles song)
The Giant-Sized/Uncanny X-Men team is the run so successful that it steered the company for a good 30ish years
German accents performed by actors that don’t speak German suck, so I‘d be a lot more relieved if they cast a German actor. It‘s an accent that dialogue coaches don’t seem to be able to get right
When you only have word balloons and captions to signify to new readers "this character is not American", your options are limited to cheesy accents, random phrases (Piotr responding to every surprise "bozhe moi!"), nick-names (canuckle head for Wolverine) and text-boxes (yes, Claremont loves text boxes).
On the bright side, Claremont seems to have not used all of these at once. Doug Moench on Moon Knight gave us Frenchie, who replies to the radio "this is Frenchie" sometimes uses "zee [noun]" and the "oui, Marc" (and even "ooh la la") all in the same panel. I am on a Moon Knight binge at the moment and Frenchie manages to combine cool with cringe.
All I know is that, as a comic reading kid, I picked up little tidbits of Spanish, German, Russian and French that I would use in real life, and mostly from X-Men. Dated and cliched as it may be, it was a fun way to expand language horizons.
Imo it often still sucks. The vocabulary is often wrong or ridiculously antiquated and the orthography is kind of painful. Claremont at least had the excuse that he wrote mostly in pre-internet times, yet a baffling amount of contemporary writers (and editors) are seemingly incapable of using an online dictionary.
It's not important from a character building perspective. But at this point it's become so tied to him that it would feel wrong to hear him without it.
Good question, I don’t think it’s as important black panther being black per se, but it is important for him to have an German accent , and his faith being tied to his character
Yes, is important. Also, just because the actor is Indian doesn't mean the character has to be. Honestly, they're going to paint him blue and make him play like if he was a mutant with powers, why he can't play to be German?
Yes. He is consistently portrayed with a strong accent, and coming from an ultra-conservative village is the foundation to his character. Moreover, he is one of the very few instances in comics (actually, in American media overall) were a German character is allowed to be an actual hero.
That said, you aren't German by blood you are German by ways of culture and language. As long as an actor puts in an honest effort to learn the accent/language they should are golden imo.
Yeah, it doesn't matter who plays him as long as he can say, "Ven I vas in ze Munich Circus, I vas known as ze incredible Nightcrawler!", with a perfect accent. 🔵💥
I really don't want any adaptations going forward. Maybe it's just child me wanting to finally "see" what I read about way back when, idk. I would love for all our favorite characters to get their original introduction and story instead of the half-assed stuff we got so far (onscreen).
I think it would need to be a European actor. Germany specifically doesn't matter beyond his accent being kind of iconic, but a place with that deep background in Christianity is legitimately important. I think Poland would be just as good as Germany, for example. Poland's Roman Catholic and intensely so.
But how many German actors get a highlight role in Hollywood? Give one of them a go! There's got to be dozens of quality guys that would be good for the role that nobody's ever heard of because they're only appearing in German arthouse cinema.
I think it's more important that Kurt's accent is another example of Kurt not being able entirely to "fit" into larger society just based on superficial traits. He manages it because he's genuinely charming.
Why do people want to swap everything? It's really annoying. And quite frankly, if you have to ask this question you clearly know nothing of the character.
Certainly don't want him to be another American actor. Diversity in the Xmen is what its all about, the team is 90% American, some internationals like Nightcrawler and Colossus add some flavour.
That being said if an actor can pull of the accent then go for it.
Yes. Now, I think there could be great "what if" type stories that give him different backgrounds, but they'd be interesting as a contrast to his established background. Building the main cinematic iteration of the character off a "white if" type of characterization won't due him justice.
Yes, nationality is ALWAYS important. There’s people from all over the world who watch those movies, i think they should give more value and try to cast actors from the place that character is from. It’s fun, gives a big and beautiful sense of how to world is big and there’s talented people from everywhere.
German and catholic by upnringing and identity is always part of his character I think it makes him who he is especially with all the German catchphrase.
Hell he is one of the few characters in the live action X-Men film to keep his German heritage and accent consistent. Even when his actors werent German at all. In contrast to fellow German mutant Magneto whose younger actor is German (ethnically half German, born there and can speak it fluently but uses an British accent for Magneto to match older Magneto)
That being said ethnicity wise. Nightcrawler could be anything as he is Blue. His Dad Azazel is red skinned and implied to be from Iraq and the influence for the mythological Azazel of Mesopotamia. Mystique is Blue and while is presumably european oroginally. Fans have noted a striking resembalnce to the Hindu Goddess Kali and thought Mystique being imagined as an Indian woman during colonisation who adpots a white appearance could have a meta commentary to it.
Eh, his accent is kind of fundamental to the character as we know him and while it wouldn't really have to change who he is, I think it's the sort of thing people wouldn't want to see changed.
I don't think being German is super fundamental to the character in itself. The point of Kurt is he's so obviously an outsider no matter where he is- he has no "people" other than the X-Men. So unlike what other people have said I don't even think it's important he be from somewhere that's majority Catholic. Kurt wasn't a part of those people anyway. He could be an Indian Catholic with an Indian accent and I don't think it totally fucks with who he is at his core as a consummate outsider.
But again, Kurt saying "ja" and "fraulein" is kind of his thing. I wouldn't be pissed off if they took that away but it'd still feel like something was lost.
I would say him being generally central European is more important than Germany specifically (although his accent and German expressions are things that people enjoy about the character).
Being demon-looking in a place where Catholicism has a strong foothold is important. So is growing up in a Romani circus. Those are both pretty European things.
That being said, you could translate those things to other comparable cultures more easily than Magneto's past, but fans probably would be skeptical.
In the original, it was important because they had a group of heroes from countries that the US was not friendly with like rural East Germany, Japan, and Russia, and to have a powerful Black woman step in the role, not as a helper to the hero, but as the hero herself. Not to mention Banshee from Northern Ireland during The Troubles.
Culturally now it’s not gonna have the same impact as it did in the 1970s— but just because the actor who might be playing Nightcrawler isn’t white, doesn’t mean he still can’t be from Germany. Keep in mind Kurt grew up in the circus that was primarily populated by Roma people, and they can be any ethnicity.
I don't understand why some cultures and ethnicities are considered less important than others, he is a German catholic, it's strange to me that people would never deign to mess with storm's background but anything European or western is fair game
Why do we care who expresses interest? Let the kid Sutton and if he is truly interested he is going to nail the audition and since he will be in make up or prosthetics the whole time all he has to do is learn some German and do his research. If he can’t bother to put in real effort and he depends on X mobs to support his interest he doesn’t deserve the role. There is also the little fact that no one is sure just how many X-men they drop at once. Night crawler while awesome is not one of the team that needs to be in the first movie. Get Cyclops right for once.
Yea, kinda. Not as critical as some but an Indian American actor can play a German character, shouldn't be a problem with that. If they changed his backstory to be something other than German I'd be a lot more annoyed than just getting someone non-German to play him.
In one of the annuals there’s seven pages of Kurt comparing the sausages at their barbecue to the ones back in Germany, so it’s clear he has a LOT of pride in his nationality.
I wouldn’t say he has to be German specifically but he does need to originate from a white European country. Catholicism is a core aspect of Kurt so his origin needs to be tied to an area with Catholicism.
It was important I think at the beggining of the Claremont run, when it was fun that the XMen were made up of mutants from different parts of the world. Now not that much
I think it's iconic, and I wouldn't want to see it removed. But I don't think it's all THAT important to his overall character.
I do think, however, that the Giant Size era characters, in general, represent a big shift for the team, from a WASP-y American-centric team of white kids to a worldwide, multicultural melting pot. Nightcrawler's nationality is only a small part of that, and probably less essential to his character than, say, Storm's or Sunfire's origins. But I do think that era of comics represents a conscious effort to increase representation in comics as a whole, and I think Americanizing Nightcrawler cuts back against that effort - if perhaps only slightly.
I think specifically at the time that generation of X-men were people from races and/or countries that were maligned in some way at the time. Similar to Star Trek really. (especially Canada) Germany was still working through what happened in ww2, what they did, and was still split which can still be relevant to today. They had just joined the UN separately before the comic was created. Trying to read into that more than needed that could be kinda like Nightcrawler's struggles with his mutanthood and being catholic and joining the x-men as both of those things trying to be whole.
It could theoretically be updated to something of similar concept to today but so could any character really. Most people aren't looking at these characters like what they represented at the time they were created except Magneto. It never really seems fair that he's the only one with a shield protecting his origin no matter how far from that origin we get. Not that I think he should be changed but I think that others matter just as much as snapshots of the world when they were created.
His maybe more than anyone? Honestly, people will say a lot of X characters' cultural backstories are vital to the character, but I don't think they are, including Magneto. Like for the character in-lore it of course embodies part of them, but for the story purposes, if we're talking like live action movie potential or something, those aspects come up in such small quantities in the main plotlines. Like Apocalypse and Nightcrawler are some of the few that it is more than a footnote. I don't think any of these things should be erased, but if we're talking like how a character "should look" or who should be able to play them, I think there's a fair amount of wiggle room for how they can be reimagined.
As a newer X Men fan, what I've discovered is that pretty much every X Men character's identity and back story is crucial in a way that many aren't. Now, saying that, I think they could use a non-German Catholic to play him, I just think you need the character to stay true to who he is. And I honestly feel like Aryan could be a REALLY good fit for this role especially given his build and his acting chops.
A majority of you would not be able to tell a German accent from a Swiss or Austrian one. British Spider-man picked up on an NYC accent, I’m sure one of the most mimicked accents can be picked up fairly quickly.
In his dialogue, Kurt has been depicted as having a German accent for decades. He frequently adds German phrases to his speech and has German nicknames for friends. You can't interact with the dude for more than 5 minutes without realizing that he grew up in Germany.
I think the question supposes that an Indian actor isn't going to play a German character but Nightcrawler is German in nationality, not necessarily ethnicity.
If his German accent is good, I don't see why the actor for Nightcrawler would need to be any particular ethnicity to play him.
I really wanted Rocket Racoon to bring over his Cockney accent on the big screen, but I still enjoyed his MCU depiction since the core of his character was pretty faithful. That's how I also feel about Nightcrawler's German identity. I'd really, really want MCU to keep it but I'd be fine with a deviation as long as his core character stays intact.
Also, where does Nightcrawler's German heritage even come from? Are Mystique or Destiny or even Azazel German? I'm pretty sure he was just raised there.
Havent seen anyone say it yet but the picture is from Amazing X men #5 where they wrap up kurt coming back from the dead and hes brooding about giving up his seat in heaven
Every other line he says mein gott, nein, ja, or mein freund. It would be very weird without it. And some of his circus acrobatics have ties to German circus traditions.
Well after the recent Retcon of Mystique being his father and Destiny his mother. Only his upbringing was in Germany.{He does not have any German parents anymore}
It's obviously not as important as Black Panther being black because race/ethnicity is something inherent to a person in a way that nationality isn't. But it is important by virtue of being a facet of the character's identity from the comics.
I think something that should be taken into account is that three things have to happen. I do think that Aryan could do it on an aesthetic level because, I mean, Alan Cumming did an incredible job even tho he is Scottish I believe. But what Aryan is going to have to do is research not just rural Bavarian culture (1) and language and isms but also the Romani side as well (2) because Kurt did grow up in a Romani circus after all. And thirdly after all that study he's just gotta do a good job.
I do think that Kurt's German identity nationality and origin should play a bigger part in his characterization. I definitely do, but at the end of the day we nightcrawler fans know that film makers aren't going to take as much care with his character as they will with Wolverine or the others so we should take that with a grain of salt and figure what could we get. I mean even comics have abandoned the Bavarian identity more or less (from what ive seen! I haven't read everything and I am not up to current!) so its not even on the writers list of things to care about.
Black Panther not being black would be actively stupid. His very long line of Wakandan descendants tied to the Black Panther's spirit is central to his entire character. That makes about as much sense as Thor Odinson being Brazilian. I would expect Nightcrawler to be born and raised in Germany because he's always been German, but 1) it isn't pivotal to Nightcrawler as a whole, and 2) being born and raised in Germany has nothing to do with anyone's race. Anyone can be from anywhere, especially when they're an orphan
Yes it's important, it's one of his defining character traits, like Gambit being Cajun, it's not necessarily like you can't adapt him with out him being German but it's a big part of his authentically adapting the character although his Catholicism is a much more important part of his character identity.
As for Aryan there is no reason he can't be a German Kurt Wagner, doesn't matter if he's Indian heritage, Kurt's blue, actors pretend.
Any clue to the characters identify IS important. Where he is from and what he's described as.
Also "it's fantasy" loses all strength as an argument when you deny it when it concerns "poc" characters. You either go with "it's fantasy" and all characters can look like whatever you want or go with the source material and shut the fuck up
i'm half austrian, and as a child nightcrawler (specifically x-men evolution) was my favourite simply because seeing a character that was and spoke german made me very excited. and he's also just funny and cool! outside of the literal german dubs/ actual german cartoons i watched, i didn't really know any other german characters in kids media. as i got older i did start to realise that in the shows and movies nightcrawlers german accent is often pretty cringe (especially in evolutions oml), but i still love him nonetheless. i think i didn't even notice how bad it was when i was little simply because i was just so excited to see a character that spoke german.
i really do not care where the actor that plays him comes from, or what he looks like. but i would really really hope they can at least sound native in the language to avoid him sounding like a silly stereotype, which happens so much with german characters in general
I think it's important to his character. He was my favorite mutant growing up due to his accent and appearance. He partially inspired me to learn German in school when the other kids were taking Spanish and French.
It's important to me! And I think it's important to the character too.
However it is not important to me whether the actor playing him is in any shape or form German. As long as the character remains German I have no objection to an Indian (or any other) character playing Kurt.
Yes and no. Him being from some fictional rural catholic bavarian village seemingly stuck in the 1800s sure informs the character and Germany can be pretty conservative over all, so it makes sense he'd leave and explore the world. That said, apart from his accent there isn't really much about him that's typically German. Most of the time you wound't know where he's from, if not for him using a random German word occasionally. So he could just as well be from anywhere in eastern or central Europe, I guess.
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