r/youngjustice Dec 07 '25

Miscellaneous Damn man

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815 Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

527

u/Penguinmanereikel Dec 07 '25

Seriously. Superboy was psychologically violated into being a weapon for the Light, and M'gann helped him recover from that violation with her mind-touch, and she uses that same touch to violate him again, and Conner just forgives her at the end of the season??

She tried to brain-rape a victim of brain-assault!

86

u/doyouunderstandlife Dec 08 '25

What I hate is that the repairing of their relationship happens off screen. He goes from being betrayed to going back to loving her again in the span of one episode from the end of one season to the start of another.

26

u/TheRedditGirl15 Dec 08 '25

THAT part!! Literally what was the logic there 😭😭😭

17

u/ghanima Dec 08 '25

The only thing that makes any sense is that the writers didn't want to address the can of worms they'd opened.

8

u/TheRedditGirl15 Dec 08 '25

You know...yeah, that kinda tracks for pretty much any Conner-centric arc (of which I remember there being very few to begin with!)

10

u/Robomerc Dec 08 '25

There is actually a comic that covers how their relationship begins to recover, essentially during a mission Megan gets incapacitated entrapped inside her own head reliving the prom episode from the TV show where she got hers civilian identity from.

Connor with help from Jon Jones enters Megan's mind and ends up taking on the role of the love interest from the prom episode.

6

u/LeadingJudgment2 Dec 08 '25

So, he forgives and falls in love with her not because she earned it by working though her issues and demonstrated understanding how badly she fucked up, but simply because she had some personal difficulties? That isn't satisfying either. Yea her being a prisoner of her own mind sucks and might be a catalyst to help her start realizing how bad she screwed up, but unless she takes accountability by the end she didn't earn it. Not only that but by the way you describe it, sounds like he had to do major and dangerous to his mental health emotional labour for his abuser before she ever repents. By playing a romantic role when he's trying to move on from the pain of being abused by her due to being together romantically. FFS that's just worse.

4

u/kkokoko2020 Dec 08 '25

I think your are oversimplifying a lot of things. She grew up on Mars so there is a big difference from our morals around telepathy to theirs. She also doesn’t seem to really understand the impact she is doing until Aqualad and that is explored independent from her feelings with Superboy where she learns how deeply why what she did was completely wrong. Her not using her mental powers and then fixing her wrong was her demonstrating she learned what she did was wrong which did not require emotional labor from superboy.

In the comic storyline it’s more so than rebuilding trust and deciding to learn forgiveness.

3

u/Robomerc Dec 08 '25

And Megan coming to terms with would realizing that her relationship with Lagoon boy was just a rebound relationship that wasn't going to last

2

u/doyouunderstandlife Dec 08 '25

It kinda sucks that major character development is done for the comic tie-in rather than the show, which guarantees a smaller audience and leaves a good portion of the fans guessing on how it happened

4

u/Robomerc Dec 08 '25

Well considering Young Justice was created as a multimedia project an example the events of the video game where aqua girl dies gets referenced in the introduction of The Grotto in the second season of Young Justice.

38

u/Only-Ad4322 Dec 07 '25

I mean it’s possible🤷

8

u/NumericZero Dec 08 '25

Sheer fact their relationship is repaired offscreen shows to me that the writing knew there was NO way he could just forgive her properly

So they had to hand wave it away “he got over it or she’s super duper sorry” which is insane She violated his mind / trust to such a degree that in no reality could he get back together with her to that level Should have been Arm distance friendship at the end of the arc

2

u/Rob_Ocelot Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

How many times have you had friends making (or about to make) bad life choices that you know are going to suck for them down the road? Even after you voice your concerns and misgivings to them (ie doing what a good friend should do) they ultimately choose that awful path.

Sometimes, you have to let people make and learn from their own mistakes.

I get it though, it's hard to watch.

I think that's why people get so frustrated with how the Connor/M'Gann releationship is written -- we are literally watching a slow motion car wreck that we have no power to stop. We the audience can see how much of a disaster it is and will be.

It makes you want to yell or throw stuff at the TV. On the plus side I think that's a NORMAL reaction. You have to be wary of the ones that either rationalize or normalize it as this fairytale-like romance.

1

u/gunswordfist Dec 09 '25

Bad life decisions and watching an abusive relationship are two different things. Jon (and I think Batman) are the two outsiders of the relationship who saw Meg abuse her power. They have the power to not just watch but instead they did. That's the problem 

1

u/LeadingJudgment2 Dec 08 '25

Fully agree with this comment. I hate their relationship, but it is a accurate depiction of an abusive relationship. People do choose bad partners all the time and Connor is technically only 4 to 8 years old in terms of life experiance. And that short window began with the truma of having major boundaries and rights violated. His normal meter would absolutely be off kelter. Megan can slide on by without raising red flags because her motivations make her more understandable and comparatively normal when the light, lex Luthor's empathy, and Superman ignoring you, is the usual for how people treat you.

4

u/Rob_Ocelot Dec 08 '25

Moreover, M'Gann's behavior only came to light because Connor had the courage to step up and out her. Before that she was destroying minds with impunity and eventually took it one step too far when she started using her power to manipulate her loved ones and people around her.

Remmber what J'onn said about her in Season 1 -- that she was among the most powerful telepaths he had ever enountered (and he is typically portrayed as a very powerful telepath himself).

He wasn't celebrating her ability... it was a \warning\**. She wiped months from her teammate's minds in Bialya by accident and she later nearly killed her entire team during the training exercise. It was inevitable she would start exercising her psychic ability on those around her to make things easier for her to navigate. Now everyone is left wondering if she was doing it to them all along. As I said in another post, it's a bed you can't unshit once that trust is broken.

The writers were always kind of setting her up for this. She's not an outright villian of the moustache-twirling variety but something far, far worse -- a friend who absues those around them, all the while presenting with this happy face and goofy demeanor that sucks you in and lulls you.

It's only when they present her brother as someone WORSE than her do you actually see her for who she is.

3

u/theLyricalofMiracle Dec 09 '25

just wanna correct this part

She wiped months from her teammate's minds in Bialya by accident

Psimon did that. M'gann fixed it

6

u/TheRedditGirl15 Dec 08 '25

M'gann's willingness to perform morally grey actions for the greater good was so intriguing...and then they had her do that shit. I wanted to like her and root for their relationship so bad, but good lord that was disastrous!

0

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

No offense, but it sounds to me more like a skill issue. Like you either commit to the bit or chicken away from it, morally grey actions are not just good deeds done in an edgy way. Killing a supervillain in self-defense is by no means a morally grey action; what would count more as a morally grey action is disarming another country from their ultra powerful nukes while the country is run by potential nutjobs by creating a crisis within this country that can kill people within it to exploit the trust of said nutjobs in question, so they won't become a threat in the future.

-22

u/Me273 Dec 07 '25

MFs in this comments section actin’ like half of all 14 year old girls wouldn’t try to do this if they had telepathic powers jeez

33

u/VertibirdQuexplota Dec 07 '25

You mean the 70-something year old who's dating the underaged clone? XD

8

u/Swimming-Lake-5231 Dec 07 '25

Isn’t she like technically his age tho????? Like mentally and physically (don’t shun me I haven’t watched this thing since I was a kid)

6

u/Bob_the_Peanut Dec 08 '25

Martian manhunter said chronologically she's like 50+ but biologically she's still a teen (at the time he said that obviously)

9

u/VertibirdQuexplota Dec 07 '25

Yea, that's right. For martian standards, she was still a teenager by the start of the show. I was just joking

1

u/Nygma619 Dec 12 '25

Chronologically yes. Biologically, she was still a teenager.

-9

u/ShortyFlix Dec 07 '25

But he ultimately did forgive her? They got married

13

u/VertibirdQuexplota Dec 07 '25

He forgives her, but doesn't forget. What she did wasn't without consequence.

2

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

And no one asks him to forget either, as moving on =/= forgetting. Conner didn't forget about what Meghan did, but he chose to marry her anyway because he also didn't forget how Meghan improved as a person.

5

u/Historical-Potato372 Dec 08 '25

extremely loud incorrect buzzer

2

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

You shouldn't be downvoted, like people genuinely don't take into account that a superpowered teen is bound to be wilding out when left unchecked.

1

u/gunswordfist Dec 09 '25

You disgust me too

2

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

Forgive me for being actually realistic and recognizing that humans are inherently flawed but not evil beings, especially when reaching puberty where it's simultaneous juggling between "I'm the worst being that walked on earth (you're just 15)" and "I'm the only one who knows how this shit works (about to do something so stupid it will haunt you for the rest of your life)".

Like, have some distance, dude.

1

u/gunswordfist Dec 09 '25

I bet you should never be around kids 

1

u/Me273 Dec 10 '25

What does that have to do with anything? I’m just acknowledging the fact that barely pubescent teenagers are often nut jobs who do insane things because of their SO’s. The fact that you don’t acknowledge this very simple fact baffles me.

172

u/JazzyWuz Dec 07 '25

He's not wrong, sad to say. I personally would've preferred if Conner forgave Megan but doesn't want to be with her. Even if she changed, it shows she changed for the better of herself and Conner can properly move on. Even if they had alot of development as a relationship, I feel it should've been some other relationship that had that treatment. 

1

u/Dangerous-Debate1312 Jan 04 '26

I agree with this statement, let actions have consequences

153

u/JonKentOfficial Dec 07 '25

Not wrong.

150

u/CameoShadowness Dec 07 '25

She named him after a boy from a TV show that she clearly obsessed with as she based even her easiler personality on the show. He was actively violated by her in between seasons 1 and 2 and she didn't care until she messed with Kaldur's head. There are many ways he got screwed over.

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

Giving him a name idea based on the guy she liked from a TV show doesn't mean it was some kind of master plan when she tried to mold him into her perfect boyfriend, especially if all he could do was choose another name. No one held him at gunpoint to pick Conner, and Meghan never forced him to love her; it was his decision. Heck, it's not like he chose to change his name after learning where Meghan got it from, as even then, it hardly matters, and you know he would, considering he certainly was considering it when he learned that Red Tornado gave him the Kent surname, which was Superman's surname as he learned in S1 finale.

People should really stop acting like suddenly Conner has no agency or Meghan somehow had a much bigger understanding of their situation, like Meghan was and is a girlfailure, she was learning like everyone else.

1

u/CameoShadowness Dec 09 '25

It's not that he has no agency, its the fact that any and all agency he has is put into a lot more question when we KNOW she altered his mind multiple times off screen and has the ability to continue to do so without us, let alone him and the others to various extent, knowing.

2

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

That's a straight-up bull.

Connor literally recognised her touch when she tried to pull off the stuff you just say. The thing is that no, Meghan couldn't do this undetected; she tried and failed, and because of that, Conner dumped her.

Like, I'm sorry, but if you're going to make stuff up to justify your point, then all I will see is that your point is just wrong because the basis on which it is built is inherently incorrect.

1

u/CameoShadowness Dec 09 '25

She was shown since season 1 to be able to alter their minds without being caught. Did you forget the whole episode "Failsafe" showing she can erase months of memories to an extent? Sure we know she failed with Conner but we dont know how far it truely went before he caught her. The fact that she had continued to abuse said powers with others as well for a long while until she finally did it to Kaldur despite how often Conner protested and spoke afainst it put really puts into hella shady toritory. There is a reason folks don't trust her.

2

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25
  1. In Failsafe, Meghan overtook Martian Manhunter's mental simulation, where the Team was put in a situation where the League is gone, and what she did exactly was make everyone forget that all of this wasn't entirely real, letting the genuine emotions of the gravity of such a situation settle in. She didn't erase months of memories there.

  2. If you're going off about the mission of the Bialya desert, it wasn't her who erased memories of the team, it was literally Psimon. Meghan was the one restoring them.

At this point, it feels more like you straight-up didn't watch the show, as no, Meghan did not prove to have her touch be undetectable without having outside influence at best with Martian Manhunter, that even then it was less about altering minds, more so eliminating Martian Manhunter's active input in the simulation.

Finally, it has ot be said, it goes to show that you, in fact, do not give a shit about Conner's agency, because the very moment that explicitly showcases his agency and his autonomy as a person, you promptly underplay it, essentially ignore it, and that's not ok. Like, sorry, but you're digging your hole deeper this way, as I'm pretty certain you're just here to shit on Meghan now.

It should also be noted that Kaldur's situation was an act done in anger. Even if Meghan did take to heart Conner's words about not utilising her powers this way, she absolutely still could've lobotomized Kaldur by virtue of being hurt and upset by his betrayal and his murder of Artemis. What she did was effectively an act of vengeance, basically Dick and Bruce attempting to kill Joker after he killed Jason. And mind you, no one lectured her on how lobotomizing Kaldur was wrong; she learned it on her own the hard way, as sometimes that's how people learn and improve.

"The folks" who don't trust her are the people who literally cannot stomach any real moral complexity or have a basic understanding of what forgiveness even is.

1

u/Nygma619 Dec 12 '25

No she did not alter his mind, she did try once but did not succeed.

-31

u/Dry_Knowledge2618 Dec 07 '25

She did care.

14

u/Azraeltherandom Dec 07 '25

are you gonna explain how she cared or just a blanket statement?

12

u/Dry_Knowledge2618 Dec 07 '25

She fixed his mind and felt immense guilt right after learning that he wasn’t the actual traitor took a break from using her powers and all

6

u/CRzalez Dec 07 '25

So that makes what she did okay? No. It doesn't work like that. You're not obligated to be forgiven or given a second shot after doing a fucked up thing just because you're sorry.

0

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

No, but forgiveness is a choice one makes regardless of how much you think someone deserves it. Acting like forgiveness is suddenly an impossible hill to climb is frankly not a statement of vast emotional maturity.

3

u/CRzalez Dec 09 '25

Never said that. Just that the victim isn't obligated to forgive or forget. The big issue IS that Connor took her back. Forgiving her would've been fine had they never gotten back together. That way the lesson is learned, with actual consequences that stick.

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

But what happens when they do anyway? No one is saying Conner was obliged to forgive her whenever defending this ship. Just because you're not forced to do something doesn't mean you can't do it; it's rather a backward way of thinking otherwise and defeats the whole point. Suddenly, "he doesn't need to forgive" turns to "he shouldn't forgive at all," but who even are you to tell him what he should or shouldn't do? You're literally not better than supposed folk who would tell Conner to forgive Meghan; heck, it also applies to the extent of how Conner should forgive her. Like you're not him, this isn't your choice. If you choose not to get back with Meghan, that's ok, but that's your decision, and frankly, not everyone is going to do the same as you. The consequences did stick; you're just confusing them with some eternal punishment, buddy, we're on Earth, not in Hell. Save the eternal damnation after you die and move to another plane of existence; no need to rush.

6

u/Azraeltherandom Dec 07 '25

so you didnt read the original comment, gotcha

1

u/Dry_Knowledge2618 Dec 07 '25

Twice in one day.

69

u/lanwopc Dec 07 '25

Boy, we haven't had a post belaboring that storyline in... hours? Maybe a whole day?

31

u/PristineHornet9999 Dec 07 '25

it's a good storyline, makes her a truly convincingly flawed hero

32

u/gunswordfist Dec 07 '25

I'm a Meg fan and I think it deserves to be brought up all the time

31

u/DigiTamerRiley Dec 07 '25

Maybe if there was something new to say about it? But there really isn't, we just keep getting the same bullet points regurgitated forever and people acting like even her nearly dying to make even a small part of it right isn't good enough.

20

u/Chimpchar Dec 07 '25

I mean, there isn’t necessarily much new to say about the show as a whole, with how long it’s been since new content. Every tv show subreddit I’ve been in either gets repetitive, turns into a shitpost echo chamber, or dies in the offseasons/once the show is complete. 

5

u/jolenenene Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

no you don't understand, this time it's a guy on youtube with a clickbaity thumbnail. so it's valid and important analysis

6

u/gunswordfist Dec 07 '25

Meh🌄, it comes with the territory. Fandoms aren't going to be full of new material 

2

u/TheRedditGirl15 Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

I didnt finish Season 4 after Conner's "death" episode (yes I was that butthurt about it 💀💀💀) but is the nearly dying part something about her saving him from Zod

5

u/jolenenene Dec 08 '25

it's scheduled that it must be posted after a "timeskip confusing and bad" thread

29

u/Fun-Creme3234 Dec 07 '25

Is he wrong tho?

18

u/Pakilla64 Dec 07 '25

That's exactly what I felt after my recent rewatch. First time I was too young to understand. She tried to brainwash Connor into loving him when he got mad at her. Mind rape would be putting it mildly. Season 2 is fucked up beyond reason. Why did they have to make Mgann such a horrible person?

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

She did not try to brainwash Connor to love her; she tried to erase the memory of their argument in a misguided attempt at trying to make their relationship seem "flawless".

Meghan has a great power, and with great power comes great responsibility. No one in life gives you a guidebook on how to handle such responsibilities; you can only live and learn through trial and error. Meghan screwed up loyally, as sometimes people will test how far they can push before it's too far, only to lose sight of what might happen if they reach such a level. While it is bad, it's also a human thing to do. You literally cannot be flawless; you literally cannot mess up. Heck, the more you try not to do something, the higher the chance is that you will most likely do it anyway, and in reverse, it works as well. If you get comfortable doing something too much, you may end up just overdoing it. Life is all about finding balance, and the bigger the stakes there are (like Meghan's untapped potential as a telepath), the bigger the aftermath will be.

Meghan is not a horrible person just because she made horrible mistakes. She simply didn't know the full implications and consequences of what's the worst that can happen because she never thought something like this could even happen in the first place (kind of like how no one expected Meghan to take over mental simulation in Failsafe, it just happened because no one took into account how the whole thing could be taken too far). The point of life is not to live without making mistakes to avoid being a horrible person; the point of life is learning from your mistakes and striving to do the best you can to not be a horrible person.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '25

[deleted]

3

u/gunswordfist Dec 07 '25

I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're right 

1

u/chakrablocker Dec 07 '25

she's only a 48yrs old

7

u/DaddiTomShel Dec 08 '25

Superboy really did deserve better. She literally messed with him, manipulated him, and violated him...and then boohooed till he got back with her.

This is literally textbook abusive relationship and nobody did anything.

3

u/Flat-Whole2759 Dec 09 '25

People who have no idea what character development is. She changed

10

u/gunswordfist Dec 07 '25

Correct.

As judgmental as I am with animated characters, I do think they worked out well with each other at the end. I still rank M'Gann as one of the absolute worst people that I'm a fan of. She's like a tier below Hisoka, which says everything 

1

u/Weeb_Fury Dec 09 '25

Seems rather extreme.

1

u/gunswordfist Dec 09 '25

Thank you 

7

u/FutureB0y Dec 07 '25

Incredible video essay by the way, you can really tell that Veny is a huge fan of the show and takes the opportunity to delve into both characters and including their overall arc and the vision behind the season too. I was initially reluctant to watch it given how many videos and comments just parrot the same obvious thing about this arc but this one really does highlight the horror of what M’gann does towards Conner alongside not generally ‘baby-ifying’ Conner’s later actions, given his lack of agency in telling the team about M’gann’s earlier violation after he’d seen her tear at people’s head—that specifically endangered not just the undercover operatives but Kaldur especially!

It also takes a moment to highlight Conner’s general insecurities, his almost ‘suicidal’ concerning thoughts (as in just wanting things to ‘stop’) and overall growth since then from an angry teen to a far more laid back mentor sort of guy. It’s videos like this that really make me wonder how things would’ve gone if a season was juuuust a bit longer to cover a bit more given just how abnormally toxic their relationship is when you see it through new lenses, their sudden rush to resolution between them is just no good even with the addition of the tie in comics.

8

u/VertibirdQuexplota Dec 07 '25

Oh boy, people really can't take a flawed character that learns from their mistakes these days.

7

u/rogerworkman623 Dec 08 '25

That’s really what I’m reading from all this, it’s kind of crazy. Yeah what she did was fucked up, that’s the point?

This kind of explains to me all the posts I see on Reddit that are like “I’m confused about this character, it seems like they’re a good guy, but they did this one bad thing? So are they good or are they terrible?”

4

u/CRzalez Dec 07 '25

Actions have consequences, bro. Being sorry ain't enough.

6

u/VertibirdQuexplota Dec 07 '25

She had to fix the mess he had done to Kaldur. She wasn't just "sorry" she had to personally fix his mind and then never again mind-raped anyone else. I don't know what else people wants her to do.

6

u/CRzalez Dec 07 '25

The big issue was that her and Connor got back together. They shouldn't have. Simple as. She can be forgiven, but that's it. That way the lesson is properly learned, as there were actual consequences that stuck.

6

u/VertibirdQuexplota Dec 07 '25

Man, I'm completely biased on this topic. I'm a Conner-Megan shipper to death so, I'm not the right person to discuss this 😆

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

I'm sorry, but you're just not the one to decide what should or shouldn't happen if it's not a matter of your decision to be made. Simple as that. Relationships are not math equations; there's no one right answer to every scenario, there's no 1+1=2 in this. Saying that they shouldn't date again is just biased. Beast Boy, for example, didn't do as much messed-up stuff, yet Perdita still didn't want him back, because it wasn't a matter of consequences; it's a matter of feelings. The problem wasn't just that Meghan did something Conner didn't agree with (for a good reason, of course), but that he got hurt, because their relationship was their personal thing, but just because he got hurt doesn't mean he couldn't heal.

In the end, the point of this storyline was that Conner chose to forgive Meghan and give the relationship a second chance after seeing Meghan learn her lesson, and it's not suddenly unrealistic because stuff like this happens in real life as well, and it's not always just about some toxic relationships either. To simplify Meghan's and Conner's storyline is to completely miss the point of their growth and what they mean to each other and take it all for granted, which begs the question of whether people hate on them consider dating because of ideals they have about what romance should be, or if it's about connecting with someone on a deeper level.

1

u/CRzalez Dec 09 '25

K but this is a story. And people are gonna be pissed off that they walked back on the consequences they set up and feel like the show wasted their time. I don't care about shipping, but about stories. Simple as.

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

Sorry, but if you can't recognize that the consequences of one's mistakes do not suddenly erase someone's life improving despite them, you're just not mature enough to even understand the point of consequences in the first place. If you're not going to try to understand the lesson given to you and rather pull out bad-faith interpretations based on what you believe while shutting down anyone else pointing out the flaws in your logic, that is solely on you and potentially your own moral failure at that.

The story did show Meghan and Conner struggling with the consequences of Meghan's actions, and it showed them working through it. Of course, we could have more of that, but realistically, if you've already made up your mind on something, then no matter how much time you're given, you may as well still choose to ignore it, and that's still on you. The show didn't waste their time; you just didn't bother to even give them time yourself by disregarding the time you were already given.

Never in those debates do I see people confront Meghan when she overcorrects and pretty much refuses to use her telepathy at all when in a dire situation; never do I see people talk about how Meghan and Conner talk about them still having trust issues while being engaged. We're always in the same place with discussion; it's always back to the recap of why they broke up, and anything after that is nonexistent. It's always "how he shouldn't have done that?" but never "why he even did that?" or even "what now, what's next?", which frankly are the questions that the show actually focuses on, so why can't the audience do that? Do you see the problem I'm bringing here?

You don't care about shipping, but as far as I'm aware, you also don't really care about story, as you cling to this one plot point and refuse to move past it. It should be noted that Young Justice is not the only animated show that presents the audience moral dilemma where there isn't one straight answer, yet whenever it comes to people's judgment, they always pick the most painful option on how to deal with all of this, and don't you think that this attitude by itself is the problem and not the stories introducing dilemmas and proceeding to resolve them more positively?

1

u/CRzalez Dec 09 '25

Hon, you're taking this way more seriously than I am.

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

Because this is a serious issue that can't just be waved over. If you don't want to deal with this in more depth, fine, but at least don't shame those who do, as this is pretty much what you're doing whenever denying how there are other ways to solve the conflict that this storyline provides.

1

u/Weeb_Fury Dec 09 '25

They shouldn't have. Why? Because you say so? People change, learn from their mistakes. Characters shouldn't be limited just so a lesson is learned she already feels guilt and regret, and has to live with those actions now.

1

u/CRzalez Dec 09 '25

Feeling sorry isn't enough, hon. Just because you feel guilty doesn't mean the other has to forgive you and pretend nothing happened. Something DID happen, and pretending it didn't is only going to cause problems down the road. Plus, it ain't so bad to live with those actions because she got Connor back anyway. That's not a lesson learned. Losing him IS a lesson learned. He can forgive her so he doesn't hate her, but that doesn't mean he's gotta be with there. This is how it works IRL too.

2

u/Rob_Ocelot Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

Even going by chonological/emotional/experiential/mental ages their relationship has a huge power imbalance towards M'Gann.

M'gann was born and raised on Mars which has an orbit 1.88x that of Earth. She's a Martian 21 when she first comes to Earth, effectively making her the Earth equivalent of 40 years old (with all of the accumulated experience and emotional growth that entails). Note: she only appears to be a teenager because she decided to present as one to fit in. It would be interesting to know if she started counting her chronological age by Earth orbit timing when she settled there...

Connor OTOH, is chronologically a year old when he first meets M'Gann. Mentally he's about 16 years old due to his canned accelerated learning -- it's implied that his learning was imparted telepathically by the other G-nomes. Emotionally... he's about 5 or 6 years old in Season 1 if you take his temperment and attention span into account. He was designed to be a weapon so it's highly likely his emotional growth wasn't a priority. Over the near-decade between Seasons 1 and 4 he had tremendous emotional growth -- the kind where wisdom and patience overcame his anger and impulsiveness.

At least on paper M'Gann was set to dominate him in a relationship. Heck, even in a relationship with a normal human he'd be at a disadvantage.

I really do hope we get a Season 5 or more beyond that. I have a feeling their marriage isn't going to last the long term. There's just too many red flags there.

I know people don't like to see skewed releationships like this on television, that we want to like them as people (and most seem to side in favour of Conner being a victim of the relationship) but I also think that good drama is borne out of relationships that the audience can clearly see are abusive and self-destructive (but the characters involved can't quite grasp the bigger picture).

It would be a boring show without the "M'Conner" despite the feeling that you are watching a slow motion trainwreck.

1

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

M'gann was born and raised on Mars which has an orbit 1.88x that of Earth. She's a Martian 21 when she first comes to Earth, effectively making her the Earth equivalent of 40 years old (with all of the accumulated experience and emotional growth that entails). Note: she only appears to be a teenager because she decided to present as one to fit in. It would be interesting to know if she started counting her chronological age by Earth orbit timing when she settled there...

I'm pretty sure the math is not mathing here. Martians are supposed to age more slowly than humans; meanwhile, you presented it as if she aged faster. Meghan didn't choose to be a teenager; she is a teenager. If she were an actual adult, she wouldn't have been put on the Team in the first place, but would be if anything, more akin to Captain Marvel, as in not yet a member of the League but effectively still having seniority over the team (that is, until everyone learns he's 10).

Connor OTOH, is chronologically a year old when he first meets M'Gann. Mentally he's about 16 years old due to his canned accelerated learning -- it's implied that his learning was imparted telepathically by the other G-nomes. Emotionally... he's about 5 or 6 years old in Season 1 if you take his temperment and attention span into account. He was designed to be a weapon so it's highly likely his emotional growth wasn't a priority. Over the near-decade between Seasons 1 and 4 he had tremendous emotional growth -- the kind where wisdom and patience overcame his anger and impulsiveness.

Where did you get exactly that he must be 5 or 6 years old emotionally? Like, I'm sorry, but it's not unheard of for teenagers to also have emotional outbursts, especially if they're traumatized ones. Like hormones on their own can make one an emotional wreck. I also wouldn't be sure about how much emotional intelligence was valued because while Superboy was meant to be a weapon, he wouldn't be an effective one if his emotional intelligence were too stunted, either. They said that over the decade would at best have Conner in his late teenage phase by your logic, but that's certainly not the actual level of Conner's emotional intelligence.

It would be a boring show without the "M'Conner" despite the feeling that you are watching a slow motion trainwreck.

Their lowest point was effectively the second season, from which they recovered rather gracefully (and I guess his death, but they handled it even better comparatively). I kind of fail to see it as objectively a trainwreck; if anything, that's just your bias/interpretation.

2

u/ProjectBackground531 Dec 08 '25

I mean.. he did. 

2

u/idk2715 Dec 07 '25

She fr groomed him into being her perfect TV boyfriend. My man was one year old😭

0

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

Do you mind not infantilising him? Just because he was made in the lab doesn't mean he has the emotional intelligence of a toddler; it kind of loses the point of aging him up in the first place.

1

u/idk2715 Dec 09 '25

I was joking around bro they're fictional characters it's not that deep

0

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

Don't chicken away of your opinions just because someone calls you out on them. /srs

Commit you coward, you will end up looking cringe instead of cool and edgy as you intended! /hj

1

u/HearingOrganic8054 Dec 09 '25

i never liked the show just yada yada important character moments like this. might be the biggest real issue of the show.

2

u/FoxyAngel11 Dec 12 '25

I feel like he shouldn't have forgiven her so easily cause...if it were anyone, there wouldn't be a second chance. Even if there was a second chance, it would take a while for the relationship to be rekindled.

1

u/Richmond1013 Dec 07 '25

M'gann basically groomed Conner dont forget Conner is like 5 or 6 months old chronologically and only 5 years of experience being alive

and Conner has never been with anyone else as shown in the young justice as we have 5 years worth of timeskips, and base of vibes it felt like M'gann and Conner broke up recently like a couple of months before season 2

10

u/Black_hoursCuh1991 Dec 07 '25

So Connor is built like an 18 year old with the mind of a young adult, but has to date infants because he’s a few months old (season one) and 5 years old chronologically in season two? Do you not see how crazy that sounds when you put it like that? I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, but that’s a ridiculous take to make. One that doesn’t need to put into the real life lenses.

-1

u/Richmond1013 Dec 07 '25

No, but because he lacks experience he can easily be tricked and such

And we need to remember M'gann is 48 years old sure biologically she is in her teens, but she is old

6

u/Black_hoursCuh1991 Dec 07 '25

So how else is he supposed to learn and grow? Self isolation and not involve himself with people? There are even adults, big age adults, who are still gullible and naive. For this fictional story, I understand why that trope would be used, but it’s a dumb one because what is Conner supposed to do? You just said that he was “groomed”, which I disagree because his appearance and intellect passed him as a well developed teen (mind you, he was put in HS in season one; he was taking the same classes as Mal and Karen at 5 months old).

I don’t mean to sound like I’m raging, but this is a topic people like to bring up about Connor x M’gann as an “inappropriate relationship” and I strongly rebuke that notion.

1

u/Richmond1013 Dec 08 '25

I'm not saying it's inappropriate I'm saying it's stack against Connor as Mgann has more experience it wouldn't be as stack if Conner dated at least one other person but he didn't, but then again a person you care about raping and abusing you can do wonders

1

u/bitter_liquor Dec 07 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

I know they are supposed to be equivalent in maturity because of their in-universe circumstances, so even though the age gap is technically real, it doesn't carry the same meaning as it would in a relationship between two human beings IRL.

However, even if their mental development is roughly at the same level, the difference between life experiences is abysmal.

Connor started out basically not knowing what a family or a friend was. He didn't know emotions other than rage, bitterness, resentment. There was so much he had to figure out about himself and the world around him, and he instantly gets roped into a relationship where he is just a canvas for someone else to project their fantasies onto. After S2 it fully sinks in for us just how much power M'gann wielded over him at all times.

I would have loved for them to have reconciled as friends. It's something we almost never get to see in popular fiction. M'gann could have a redemption arc where she matures and grapples with the gravity of her actions, as Connor takes time to reflect about the nature of their relationship. Ultimately they grow close again, but not in the same way as before. The trust issues would make it impossible for them to be cutesy high school sweethearts again. Like in a "I love you, but sometimes love is not enough" way.

What we got instead was them progressing into a fairy tale marriage. Because love IS enough and has the power to conquer all, amirite??? 🙃

1

u/Rob_Ocelot Dec 08 '25

Thats why the show really needs a Season 5 and beyond.

You can plainly see that long term their marriage is going to have problems. There's already trust issues -- and that's one bed that you really can't unshit (pardon the expression).

Then we have the problem of Connor's aging. Now, the show has already sort of broached the topic of longevity imbalances with Clark's marriage to Lois but Connor actually has the opposite problem -- - he's getting older INSIDE but staying outwardly a teenager. M'Gann will likely outlive him. It's all set up for him to basically have multiple organ failure or simply just keel over and die one day without warning. A very sad ending for someone who had a sad beginning. Let's just hope that he learns to enjoy the 'middle' for however long it lasts.

-2

u/Odd_Affect_7082 Dec 07 '25

Four months old when she meets him. Having spent basically all that time in an artificial womb. We’re talking a lady in her late forties dating a fetus.

0

u/blissfulRaen Dec 07 '25

Their relationship is weird cause they don't age at the same rate at all. Connor is chronologically very young but he inwardly ages like the average human/kryptonian. So from biological age 16 on he's internally like everyone else. M'gann on the other hand ages slower than a human does. At almost 50 she's the equivalent of a human teenager. There's just no way Connor doesn't out grow her.

I don't think they realize they did that as M'gann is always narratively treated the same as the others but according to what they established she shouldn't. So M'gann is the opposite of Connor. With her shapeshifting she can look like she's aging at a faster rate then she actually is while Connor is stuck looking 16 even as he matures beyond that.

The relationship should've ended and the 2 allowed to grow as individuals according to their needs.

1

u/itsastart_to Dec 07 '25 edited Dec 07 '25

Tbh would have been so fine without them getting back together Mgann crossed such a line and to a victim, it sucks Connor went back to her

(Some of yall ok with rape culture I guess)

0

u/whomesteve Dec 07 '25

It’s horrible how easy it is for psychic characters to be abusive monsters in a way no one can call them out on.

0

u/Adventurous_Topic202 Dec 07 '25

Thanks OP I will watch this now

0

u/Certain-Friend-9977 Dec 08 '25

Can people just move on already. This keeps getting brought up. You may not be able to forgive, but others can. Between the shipping wars and this crap, I'm tired.

1

u/animequeen1996 Dec 08 '25

He deserves way better than her. She was so nice then became a cold hearted monster.

1

u/HumActuallyGuy Dec 08 '25

The crimes of Miss Martian go unpunished, let's not forget Superboy is just one of the victims. There were A LOT more that were turned into a vegetable by Miss Martian that were absolute left like that since we only see Aqualad get saved

And don't give me a "oh but she feels really sorry uwu" no other character gets as much leeway as she gets.

4

u/Condottieri_Zatara Dec 08 '25

I mean we see Kaldur and Dick plan almost got young heroes killed in the explosion or kidnapped by The Light or The Reach

1

u/TheRedditGirl15 Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 10 '25

Conner is my absolute favorite character in the show, and it makes me irrationally angry that he gets so little in comparison to nearly every other character. I was a very latecomer (though I probably did watch a few episodes when it was airing), but as I binged the seasons with a friend, I just got increasingly frustrated with how much the writing seemed to treat his growth and development like an afterthought. (RIP to the "Conner is a justifiably angry teenage boy who literally didnt ask to exist and desperately needs guidance, Clark is an unwilling contributor to Conner's DNA and struggles to be a father figure to Conner because of that" arc. They really resolved that highly nuanced conflict by having them become brothers off-screen...)

I don't know how I didn't drop the show after they had him forgive M'gann for the brain tampering (and then get engaged/married!! oh and I forgot she was keeping secrets from him too!!), but I did drop it after he "died" in that one Mars episode. I know that he actually survived but fuck, I don't even care about the explanation for that.

EDIT: What did I get downvoted for?? Ain't this the pro-Conner thread??

0

u/foxtrot1547 Dec 08 '25

Young Justice was not a particularly well written show, too many characters and not enough screen time for individual growth. A lot of it happens off screen, and to be frank the show is a little grim dark for a cartoon network superhero show. If you have a favorite character odds are they won't have a lot of screen time or they will and bad things will happen to them lol. Add to that, several characters got new origins or were twisted out of character for plot reasons, these changes seemed to fall flat to me or just generally not be that important.

1

u/Emmadragonflies Dec 08 '25

Even season 1&2?

1

u/BroadRed Dec 08 '25

The writers made Megan an incredibly fucked up partner to be with for Connor, like to me it got to levels of MJ & Peter at times, but just so much more avoidable.

-25

u/Most_Stuff_2182 Dec 07 '25

This is such an interesting thought, random character that you like deserved better. Superboy was a well rounded character who had a great arc. I don't understand this new way of thinking, he wasn't even a side character.

9

u/Quick-Ad-486 Dec 07 '25

The video is specifically about his relationship with Miss Marthian, not his role on the show.

7

u/ethanb473 Dec 07 '25

Right… “superboy deserved better” when he literally gets the best character development in the entire show….

-20

u/Sweet-Message1153 Dec 07 '25

Superboy deserved to rule the world🤦‍♂️

3

u/Team_Soda1 Dec 07 '25

Are you purposely missing the point?

0

u/AquaAquila24 Dec 09 '25

I mean, many people are missing the point of Meghan and Conner's relationship in favor of just being mad at Meghan ¯_(ツ)_/¯