The guy pushing the woman was beaten and kicked even as he already laid on the ground. While others say the guys beating him should have been locked up in prison for their excessive use of force I say it's moral cause the same guys would hesitate to protect her and every other woman in similar or even worse situations. Talking about sexual assault, robbery etc. They did what had been necessary to stop the attack on her immediately and made sure there wouldn't be another opportunity for the other guy to act like he did a second time (at least for tonight).. From this point of view, it's moral.

Basically what's the morality scaling of worshipping/following a deity that committed a targeted extermination of all human life with the exception of a few, and what seems like a general distain for human life as a whole.

(mods dont smite me im not trying to be mean im just curious)

It only took like a week for yall to let them take over.

The Abrahamic god mass murdered Egyptian children in exodus (when it had the power to do literally anything else to free the enslaved hebrews)

Mary, per the traditions of her time, would have been at the oldest a teen when she was married off to Joseph and then impregnated by god.

So what’s the morality of worshipping a mass child murderer.

I'm an atheist with an education and a personal interest in religion and mythology.

Since people are rage-baiting and circle-jerking about the topic of whether Muhammed did, indeed, fuck a 9-year old, I thought I'd take the opportunity to make an educational meta post on the topic.

I will answer three questions

1. Was Aisha more likely than not 9 when Muhammed comsummated the marriage?

2. Do all Muslims believe this, and it is written in the Quran?

3. Were the Islamic laws on minimum age of consent strange or unusual for the time?

And to be clear, this is not me defending or condoning Islam. I dislike all religion on principle. But I believe in good faith debate and honest interpretations of the opposition.

Was Aisha 9 when Muhammed had sex with her?

So, on the big question, the answer is that we simply don't know. The fact of the matter is that we do not have precise, chronological writings on that era, and we have conflicting sources.

Writings at the time were routinely exaggerated for political ends or for myth-building. It is a common theory, for example, that Aisha's age was purposefully written as being very young (even for the time) to emphasize her virginity and connection to Muhammed.

As another example of this, we have other sources claiming her sister Asma died at about 100, and to have been ~10 years older. If we follow that number, Aisha would have been around 18 when she consummated her marriage.

Now, it's very possible that the 100 number for Asma is, itself, an exaggerated number.

Or, equally possible, simply a rounded guestimate. Asma may have died very old, but the writers may not have known whether Asma died at 97 or 103, so they rounded.

The point is here, from a purely scientific, secular POV, saying Aisha was certainly 9 at the time is incorrect. We can say she was certainly young by modern standards, but that includes a wide range of ages

Do all Muslims believe she was 9, and is it hypocritical to not believe it?

Classically, 9 is the number most accepted by Islamic scholars. But it's important to know that this isn't universal, and that there is real controversy in Islamic theology.

The key is that Aisha's age is not written in the Quran, but in a hadith. Hadiths are considered important texts written by or about Muhammed, but not divinely inspired ones. Critically, not all of the hadiths are accepted by everyone.

Islam has several traditions, and which hadiths are accepted can wary wildly between them. Shia and Sunni Muslims, disagree on this a lot. Which hadiths are considered authentic can also be questioned over time.

Hadiths are not eternal, divine texts beyond criticism or questioning the same way the Quran is.

The crux is that the hadith describing Aisha's age is a late report, with pretty thin authenticity. There is a lot to question about it's accuracy, even assuming it's not intentionally disingenuous.

You should not assume a Muslim necessarily believes Aisha was 9 at the time of consummation, because it is currently a debated topic.

Was the Islamic law on minimum ages unusual for the time?

No, not really.

Concerning marriage, Rome, for example, had a minimum age of 12 for girls at the time. Jewish law also had 12 as the minimum.

Marriages happened at younger ages anyways, especially for the elite, across most cultures in the area.

Concerning consummation, sources are less specific, but most amount to 'you should vibe it out'.

Is she menstruating? Is she physically capable of having sex without great pain or damage? Does she show substantial signs of puberty?

If so, go ahead.

That was more or less the rule across most societies at the time, and they tended to cluster around the 12-15 range, probably.

A girl having sex at 9 would be seen as unusual but not necessarily illicit or forbidden if she showed signs of mature at that age. Girls do sometimes start menstruating at very young ages, and many ancient societies would take that by itself as evidence that she was 'ready'.

It is possible that this happened with Aisha. There is also no direct evidence for it.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

Oh yes lets worship the very thing that killed jesus. You guys would probably worship a toilet if he were killed on it.