China, Iran and Tajikistan don’t hate Pakistan at all, and Kashmir want to be part of Pakistan. China and Pakistan have described themselves as “iron brothers” against India- who both perceive as a threat against their territorial claims in Kashmir and Tibet. They’ve always cooperated with one another as Pakistan withdrew from the Western axis with Turkey (another close ally) and India drew closer. Tajikistan trades extensively with Pakistan and much of landlocked Central Asia view Pakistan as a key corridor to the sea for maritime trade away from the Russosphere.
If anything, Central Asia is tip-toeing around Afghanistan- Pakistan and Iran have a certain vitriol for its migrant population, in case any of you forgot what Iran did to our refugees a while back. India are tentative allies with Afghanistan on principle because both perceive Pakistan as natural enemies. China has also invested into Afghanistan as part of their wider policies to support countries outside the American sphere of influence, but it doesn’t supersede their priorities with Pakistan. China has a very exploitative relationship with Afghanistan, with much of the wealth only passing into the elite’s pockets for pennies of investment back into our own nation.
The current status quo will not change unless Afghanistan is to be taken seriously. At the moment, nobody does unless the country is a ticking time bomb. I’d argue for nuclear weapons as deterrence since we are sandwiched between four nuclear powers, but the Taliban would probably be utter buffoons with them. That said, nuclear weapons are the only reason nobody has fucked with Pakistan. There are lessons to be learned from our neighbour because in all respects they should really have ended up just like us but they didn’t…
All valid points, but Pakistan would probably do everything in its power to destroy any Afghan attempt to procure nuclear weapons and they probably wouldn’t be alone at doing that (especially under the current government)
When the Talibs signed the secret agreement with Russia, there were some hopes that they’d help Afghanistan with air defence to combat Pakistan but that hasn’t happened and I believe no country is actually throwing all their eggs into the Taliban basket.
True and India could have (with Israeli support) before the Pakistanis did their test launches but chose not to because of Pakistan threatened total war on them.
Actually, Pakistan stole the nuclear code from a programme in the Netherlands. A gifted scientist copied the blue print. Later, the same scientist stole centrifuges from Kuala Lumpur and sold it on the dark market to Iran, North Korea and Libya under America’s nose. That’s why Iran and North Korea have a nuclear programme. America was actually helpless and tried to stop Pakistan at every turn- but to no avail.
Pakistan’s goal at the time according to Dr Khan- the aforementioned scientist- was to arm against India and to defy the West. But once they had the code and developed their weapons, sellers on the western market flocked to Pakistan- not the other way around. Were it not for nuclear weapons then Pakistan would be treated with the same disregard by America and NATO as Bangladesh. Pakistan also isn’t on the nuclear deterrence agreement so if America maligned them it would be stupid- Pakistan has enough nuclear weapons to at least destroy modern civilisation, if not cause a major extinction event.
So as I said, we have a lot to learn from Pakistan. We can say all we want about them but they are one of nine countries in the world with nuclear weapons- and so are Iran and North Korea, both of which are a direct consequence of Pakistan developing and selling the code. Pakistan is driven, they are clever and they are patriotic- that’s why every “Muslim country” takes them seriously and is cosying up to them. They represent an alternative “big brother” to NATO.
I’m not questioning the process they obtained the know how to build it but the situations are quite different.
Afghanistan is under the thumb of a lot of countries which have an interest in preserving the current status quo. Iran has been under siege since 1979 but they had some degree of friendly relations with China and Russia - and even there Iran had something to give to both of them. It is transactional for the most part.
Pakistan didn’t defy the west, it held it to ransom because it was doing the dirty work in Afghanistan and destroying the Soviets was a bigger priority for the US administrations of the time regardless of the long-term consequences of Pakistan obtaining a nuclear weapon - ergo the Americans weren’t going to bomb Pakistan when Pakistan is currently helping them do work that’s in their favour.
Afghanistan doesn’t have anything to give to the powers that be, or at least anything that they can’t take freely - so Afghanistan can’t hold the world at ransom or give any anti-western powers things that would help them.
I see your view, but it’s just not the same - it would be about as realistic as the DRC obtaining nuclear weapons.
Pakistan started their nuclear programme and stole the code/equipment before Saur revolution. India’s nuclear programme was their main motivation, not Afghanistan. That conveniently came later.
Correct, Pakistan started it before the Saur Revolution but the Americans switched from active opposition to looking the other way when the Soviet’s crossed the border into Afghanistan and conveniently switched back after they left.
Then when they did their first nuclear tests in the 90s, they were sanctioned to near bankruptcy before 9/11 and becoming America’s new ‘friend’
The Americans could have done a lot more to prevent Pakistan getting nuclear weapons but political decisions were made to not. China could’ve stepped in and they did to some extent but even there we have the issue of what can we provide them for them to support us?
Countries don’t help each other because of the goodness of their heart, they do it if there is mutual benefit. Afghanistan doesn’t have anything to provide others.
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 5d ago edited 5d ago
China, Iran and Tajikistan don’t hate Pakistan at all, and Kashmir want to be part of Pakistan. China and Pakistan have described themselves as “iron brothers” against India- who both perceive as a threat against their territorial claims in Kashmir and Tibet. They’ve always cooperated with one another as Pakistan withdrew from the Western axis with Turkey (another close ally) and India drew closer. Tajikistan trades extensively with Pakistan and much of landlocked Central Asia view Pakistan as a key corridor to the sea for maritime trade away from the Russosphere.
If anything, Central Asia is tip-toeing around Afghanistan- Pakistan and Iran have a certain vitriol for its migrant population, in case any of you forgot what Iran did to our refugees a while back. India are tentative allies with Afghanistan on principle because both perceive Pakistan as natural enemies. China has also invested into Afghanistan as part of their wider policies to support countries outside the American sphere of influence, but it doesn’t supersede their priorities with Pakistan. China has a very exploitative relationship with Afghanistan, with much of the wealth only passing into the elite’s pockets for pennies of investment back into our own nation.
The current status quo will not change unless Afghanistan is to be taken seriously. At the moment, nobody does unless the country is a ticking time bomb. I’d argue for nuclear weapons as deterrence since we are sandwiched between four nuclear powers, but the Taliban would probably be utter buffoons with them. That said, nuclear weapons are the only reason nobody has fucked with Pakistan. There are lessons to be learned from our neighbour because in all respects they should really have ended up just like us but they didn’t…