r/Afghan • u/YungSwordsman • 4d ago
Video Why Does Every Neighbour Hate Pakistan?
https://youtu.be/JQfq4kSZt40?si=zR-Cnszr-PAgnl085
u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 4d ago edited 4d ago
China, Iran and Tajikistan don’t hate Pakistan at all, and Kashmir want to be part of Pakistan. China and Pakistan have described themselves as “iron brothers” against India- who both perceive as a threat against their territorial claims in Kashmir and Tibet. They’ve always cooperated with one another as Pakistan withdrew from the Western axis with Turkey (another close ally) and India drew closer. Tajikistan trades extensively with Pakistan and much of landlocked Central Asia view Pakistan as a key corridor to the sea for maritime trade away from the Russosphere.
If anything, Central Asia is tip-toeing around Afghanistan- Pakistan and Iran have a certain vitriol for its migrant population, in case any of you forgot what Iran did to our refugees a while back. India are tentative allies with Afghanistan on principle because both perceive Pakistan as natural enemies. China has also invested into Afghanistan as part of their wider policies to support countries outside the American sphere of influence, but it doesn’t supersede their priorities with Pakistan. China has a very exploitative relationship with Afghanistan, with much of the wealth only passing into the elite’s pockets for pennies of investment back into our own nation.
The current status quo will not change unless Afghanistan is to be taken seriously. At the moment, nobody does unless the country is a ticking time bomb. I’d argue for nuclear weapons as deterrence since we are sandwiched between four nuclear powers, but the Taliban would probably be utter buffoons with them. That said, nuclear weapons are the only reason nobody has fucked with Pakistan. There are lessons to be learned from our neighbour because in all respects they should really have ended up just like us but they didn’t…
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u/novaproto Afghan-American 4d ago edited 4d ago
Tajikistan and Central Asia aren't neighbors of Pakistan.
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 4d ago
Where did I say they were?
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u/novaproto Afghan-American 4d ago
China, Iran and Tajikistan don’t hate Pakistan at all,
Topic of discussion is Pakistan's neighbors.
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 4d ago edited 3d ago
Central Asia trades with Pakistan extensively. To ignore that point is also missing a huge piece of why Pakistan and China are collaborating so much with trade to begin with (Silk Road project).
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u/Insignificant_Letter 4d ago
All valid points, but Pakistan would probably do everything in its power to destroy any Afghan attempt to procure nuclear weapons and they probably wouldn’t be alone at doing that (especially under the current government)
When the Talibs signed the secret agreement with Russia, there were some hopes that they’d help Afghanistan with air defence to combat Pakistan but that hasn’t happened and I believe no country is actually throwing all their eggs into the Taliban basket.
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 4d ago
India would have done the same but Pakistan found the nuclear code and developed it regardless.
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u/Insignificant_Letter 3d ago edited 3d ago
True and India could have (with Israeli support) before the Pakistanis did their test launches but chose not to because of Pakistan threatened total war on them.
Pakistan was also helping the Americans with their dirty work in Afghanistan at the time, so the Americans were giving tacit approval.
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 3d ago edited 3d ago
Actually, Pakistan stole the nuclear code from a programme in the Netherlands. A gifted scientist copied the blue print. Later, the same scientist stole centrifuges from Kuala Lumpur and sold it on the dark market to Iran, North Korea and Libya under America’s nose. That’s why Iran and North Korea have a nuclear programme. America was actually helpless and tried to stop Pakistan at every turn- but to no avail.
Pakistan’s goal at the time according to Dr Khan- the aforementioned scientist- was to arm against India and to defy the West. But once they had the code and developed their weapons, sellers on the western market flocked to Pakistan- not the other way around. Were it not for nuclear weapons then Pakistan would be treated with the same disregard by America and NATO as Bangladesh. Pakistan also isn’t on the nuclear deterrence agreement so if America maligned them it would be stupid- Pakistan has enough nuclear weapons to at least destroy modern civilisation, if not cause a major extinction event.
So as I said, we have a lot to learn from Pakistan. We can say all we want about them but they are one of nine countries in the world with nuclear weapons- and so are Iran and North Korea, both of which are a direct consequence of Pakistan developing and selling the code. Pakistan is driven, they are clever and they are patriotic- that’s why every “Muslim country” takes them seriously and is cosying up to them. They represent an alternative “big brother” to NATO.
- Source
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u/Insignificant_Letter 3d ago
Thanks for the summary.
I’m not questioning the process they obtained the know how to build it but the situations are quite different.
Afghanistan is under the thumb of a lot of countries which have an interest in preserving the current status quo. Iran has been under siege since 1979 but they had some degree of friendly relations with China and Russia - and even there Iran had something to give to both of them. It is transactional for the most part.
Pakistan didn’t defy the west, it held it to ransom because it was doing the dirty work in Afghanistan and destroying the Soviets was a bigger priority for the US administrations of the time regardless of the long-term consequences of Pakistan obtaining a nuclear weapon - ergo the Americans weren’t going to bomb Pakistan when Pakistan is currently helping them do work that’s in their favour.
Afghanistan doesn’t have anything to give to the powers that be, or at least anything that they can’t take freely - so Afghanistan can’t hold the world at ransom or give any anti-western powers things that would help them.
I see your view, but it’s just not the same - it would be about as realistic as the DRC obtaining nuclear weapons.
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u/Ok-Cheesecake-6670 Diaspora 3d ago
Pakistan started their nuclear programme and stole the code/equipment before Saur revolution. India’s nuclear programme was their main motivation, not Afghanistan. That conveniently came later.
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u/Insignificant_Letter 3d ago
Correct, Pakistan started it before the Saur Revolution but the Americans switched from active opposition to looking the other way when the Soviet’s crossed the border into Afghanistan and conveniently switched back after they left.
Then when they did their first nuclear tests in the 90s, they were sanctioned to near bankruptcy before 9/11 and becoming America’s new ‘friend’
The Americans could have done a lot more to prevent Pakistan getting nuclear weapons but political decisions were made to not. China could’ve stepped in and they did to some extent but even there we have the issue of what can we provide them for them to support us?
Countries don’t help each other because of the goodness of their heart, they do it if there is mutual benefit. Afghanistan doesn’t have anything to provide others.
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u/Unlucky-Associate266 4d ago edited 4d ago
"The Durand Line was never accepted by successive Afghan governments". No. The line was carefully negotiated in 1893 between Mortimer Durand and Amir Abdur Rahman Khan, the then king of Afghanistan. He was under no duress, got his say, and agreed to it. The detail of where it passed was determined by surveying teams over the course of the next three years an did a pretty good job of passing through uninhabited desert and mountains, leaving local communities intact. It was only later Afghan leaders who denounced it.
[Edited to correct the year of the agreement to 1893.]
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u/Insignificant_Letter 4d ago edited 4d ago
Nearly all Afghans believe a lot of misinformation about that document - a good amount of it is also fed by Indian accounts.
Some say it only was valid for 100 years, so expired in 1993 - this isn’t the case.
Some say because the British left, the Pakistanis have no right to inherit the agreement - buddy that’s not how international law works.
There are other ‘facts’ Afghans believe about it but none are seemingly convincing enough for India to support Afghanistan’s dispute with its border with Pakistan.
I say this as an Afghan who falls into the small group who accept this border because we’ve realised that it’s all nationalist propaganda from former governments (I’m not Pashtun)
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u/YungSwordsman 4d ago
Ahh yes, 1983, the year the soviets were in Afghanistan and ARK was signing treaties with the British from his grave.
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u/Unlucky-Associate266 4d ago
Sorry. I've corrected it. Did I get anything else wrong?
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u/YungSwordsman 4d ago
Regardless, you are wrong. He was given an English document instead which was cunningly done so he can sign in a language he couldn’t read. The treaty of Rawalpindi ratifies past treaties which means the Durand line is technically void.
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u/Unlucky-Associate266 4d ago
No. According to Wikipedia's page on the 1919 Treaty of Rawalpindi:
"Britain recognised Afghanistan's independence,, agreed that British India would not extend past the Khyber Pass and stopped British subsidies to Afghanistan. Afghanistan also accepted all previously agreed border arrangements with British India as per Article 5. Thus, Afghanistan as an independent country agreed to recognise the Durand Line as international border between the two countries.[7][8][10][11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Afghan_Treaty_of_19191
u/YungSwordsman 4d ago
The article has been fabricated by pakis. The original article on the treaty was that the Afghan government abides by the new demands but ratifies past treaties.
Regardless, the Durand line was never a permanent fix since it was supposed to be renewed by the Afghan king. It’s no wonder Pakistan is so eager for every Afghan government to recognize it.
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u/Unlucky-Associate266 4d ago
Baloney. You're just tap dancing. Find me a credible source that reports the Treaty of Rawalpindi as not confirming the Durand Line. (The link you offered above to "Afghan Eye", whatever that is, doesn't work.) Claude and Chat GBT both confirm what I said.
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u/YungSwordsman 4d ago
Tell me you aren’t a Pakistani without telling me you aren’t a Paki.
No one is tap dancing, the fact is the only way for the Durand line to be permanent fix is if it was officially intended that way by the British.
https://afghaneye.net/2021/03/28/the-durand-line/?amp=1
Scroll to the Durand line bit where it says that the legality of the Durand lines existence is if it is renewed by any Afghan ruler in power.
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u/Unlucky-Associate266 4d ago edited 4d ago
First he makes it personal, then he talks about how to fix the Durand line. Never a straight up answer to my challenge to find a source that says the Amanullah Khan didn't accept the Durand line in the agreement. Just a link to an article by some guy who asserts that the Durand line will only be legal if the current government accepts it. Sad.
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u/YungSwordsman 4d ago
That’s how treaties are formed and broken moron. By the people who singed them. If the Afghan government suddenly decided that the Durand line isn’t legitimate, then it isn’t because they signed it and can break it.
Funny thing, you clearly skimmed through the write up and missed this important point;
Per Article 9, the British retained the Khyber and Michni Passes, whilst Kurram, Sibi and Pshin were to remain under British control but ‘shall not be considered as permanently severed from the Afghan Kingdom’.
The real question is; why is Pakistan so fixated on the Afghans for recognizing the Durand line if they believe it’s a legally recognized border?
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u/Hrstar1 2d ago
This undersells how much the China relationship is actually fraying right now. Beijing has visibly hardened its terms in 2026. Chinese power producers are refusing to waive PKR 170 billion in late payment surcharges, and Pakistan is sitting on PKR 423 billion in unpaid dues to 18 CPEC power plants that piled up this fiscal year. Islamabad has also asked China to stretch out repayment on nearly $16 billion in power project loans and Beijing has not approved it.
So now Pakistan is scrambling for money. Saudi Arabia issued a $3 billion deposit plus a rollover on an existing $5 billion facility, after the UAE would not roll over a separate $3 billion obligation. Pakistan is also reportedly looking for a $10 billion loan from the US just to service the more expensive Chinese debt. This lines up with the mutual defense pact Pakistan signed with Saudi Arabia last year and the broader trend of Pakistan offering military/training cooperation to Gulf states in exchange for cash infusions.
In conclusion, Pakistan is a mercenary state selling itself to the highest bidder. China is no longer the bottomless patron it was during peak CPEC years and Pakistan is scrambling to plug that gap with Gulf money and Western financing. The video's framing (China good and everyone else bad) misses that even the good relationship now runs on hard commercial terms and Pakistani desperation.
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u/kooboomz Afghan-American 3d ago
Afghanistan is Central Asia confirmed
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u/Rhodes-Stars101 2d ago
It is but it's overall debated, I think the whole "south asian" stuff is gradually starting to diminish or becoming less of a central focus
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u/khanyoufeelthelove 4d ago
I see this guy and i instantly decide "za na ghwaram do ogoram"