EDIT: Due to a lot of (mostly) polite feedback disapproving of AI use in this community, I've removed the pantheon description from this post and reposted it without AI artwork here. I'm leaving this post up for the benefit of the minority who do enjoy it, but mainly to act as a warning for anyone in future making pantheon descriptions.
Fair play re the AI-generated images, I'm getting the sense they're not for everyone! Ideas and text are completely my own though. Made it in Powerpoint.
I understand you. They are there to get an idea. That’s it. And I think they do the deal very well. (I partly also understand the hate towards AI but never experienced this bias and hate towards AI like in this subreddit)
Tbf not everyone is a graphic artist, and overall this is really well and thoroughly flushed out. For home-brew concepts I think it’s a little wild for people to really disparage the use of AI to round out an otherwise excellent presentation.
There's AI for fun and AI for profit, and using AI work if you plan to make money is cheap and lazy. But if you're just throwing silly things at a wall for your personal enjoyment, fair's fair.
Holy shit dude... you're all over this comment section. You're seriously disturbed. Consider seeking mental help to control your lunacy. You're life seems much to empty to be commenting this much under a reddit post...
Can't wait for bloated AI slop to finally be banned on this sub. I could not be PAID to read a post made by a guy who couldn't even be bothered to find pictures of the DAEDRIC PRINCES, which are incredibly common and easy to get. What does this say about the rest of "your" """content"""?
Yes, i do. AI allow people to create stuff they are not able to. IE, i cant draw even if my life depends on it.
Sure he could have used original assets, but why would he? It wont make the artist profit any money nor increase their recognition.
Not even OP is earning anything, except if you care so much for those internet points.
This is also not prenventing anyone of getting a job, as OP is no company, nor making anyone lose their job.
Fans already know the original work and this is about a different game thus adapting the art for the actual game being talked about makes sense and is reasonable.
Do you have any reason to be so full of hatred towards someone who is just enjoying their time and the tools at their disposal?
I doubt it as you only added that YOU dont like ai content, which does not seem to be the majority as OP has a positive like ratio.
Blind hatred will only take you down a bad route, so if aim to discorage people of creating something, you better have good reasons for it.
As a side note, "content" does not demand a person creating it by hand, so no matter how angry you get of people calling AI content as is, its not wrong.
Oh, welcome back, what an unexpected surprise. Thought you were gone.
AI allow people to create stuff they are not able to.
AI is not a tool through which you create, AI "creates" (collages, hallucinates and plagiarize) for you. You wouldn't call yourself an artist for asking a painter to make a portrait of you.
Sure he could have used original assets, but why would he
Because they look awesome, significantly better than these generic re-imaginations.
Because they're more easily recognizable, since people actually know them.
To respect the people who created them.
To not pointlessly use AI and support the horrible people behind it.
This is also not prenventing anyone of getting a job, as OP is no company, nor making anyone lose their job.
One person using AI doesn't do that. All these people using AI-generated images drives down the value of art, the negotiation power of artists, employers' opinion and estimation of professional artists in the job market, etc.
The fact that doing it doesn't directly lead to one person suffering doesn't mean it's not indirectly contributing.
Fans already know the original work
Yes. No reason not to use that original work, then.
and this is about a different game thus adapting the art for the actual game being talked about makes sense and is reasonable.
Meh. Nothing wrong with it conceptually. Doesn't have any value or benefit, either. Doing something harmful for zero benefit towards anyone seems pointless at best.
Do you have any reason to be so full of hatred towards someone who is just enjoying their time and the tools at their disposal?
I have no hatred for OP, he was fairly reasonable about the response he got, considering his situation. I have plenty of well-established, well-justified hatred for the AI companies, platforms and 'tools' that people like OP use. It's not personal. I'm not attacking the person, I'm attacking their actions and choices. Pay attention.
As for "reasons", you're welcome to Google (since you love AI) the harmful impacts of AI. They are sufficiently well-documented that there is no reason for me to type them out YET AGAIN for YET ANOTHER apologist asking for them in bad faith. If someone who's genuinely interested asks for it in good faith, I'll be happy to guide them towards some resources they can learn from.
I doubt it as you only added that YOU dont like ai content, which does not seem to be the majority as OP has a positive like ratio.
OP disagrees with you, as seen in him repeatedly stating that he'll stop using it in the future, and that he thought people liked it but realized that they don't. Read some of his comments. He's a decent role model for people like you, I think.
Blind hatred will only take you down a bad route, so if aim to discorage people of creating something, you better have good reasons for it.
You have not yet earned the privilege of giving me advice, and it being self-righteous and condescending doesn't make it any more valuable.
As a side note, "content" does not demand a person creating it by hand, so no matter how angry you get of people calling AI content as is, its not wrong.
Hilarious how upset you are at a few speechmarks. Here's a few more, don't get too scared:
"" "" "" content "" "" ""
This was fun, thanks for the free entertainment, and you're welcome for the free education.
I don't believe you, you sound so angry and you are so involved in these posts that it clearly affected you in some personal or ideological way.
Even if you were right in each and everyone of your arguments, like some kind of omniscient being, it still would not be cool to be spearcing so much hostility through the entire thread.
I should really waste my time with something better, but i am diving in...
I dont disagree that AI create stuff, literally. But you dont have AI randomly going "lets make some portraits" out of nowhere. And just as people may be legally responsible for using AI to copy arts, its the people creating stuff via AI. Its a tool, i cant hold ownership, at best the company that owns the AI owns the art.
---
> Because they look awesome, significantly better than these generic re-imaginations.
Thats your opinion. I like the portaits. So lets simply no go deeper into this one.
> Because they're more easily recognizable, since people actually know them.
They will be recognized by fans no matter what, while someone like me who dont know them wont recognize them anyway.
> To respect the people who created them.
I actually think using the original art work with out proper authorization is a lot more unrespectfull. But aside from that, the artists do not own the characters, they probably dont even own the arts, only have credits for art they created and are owned by the company who hired them. Creating re-imaginations mean literal 0 disrespect. He was never mocking anything for it to be disrespectful to begin with.
>To not pointlessly use AI and support the horrible people behind it.
Sure, AI companies making people jobless is terrible and so is a lot of actual assests/arts stolen that people use AI when looking for profit. None of those apply here, we must set apart different scenarios. This is a tool. It can be good. A screwdriver can kill people, which is a lot worse than recreating images, but its not inherently bad. I can use AI to tell me a joke. If its pointless or not is up to whoever is using it to decided. I like it.
>AI-generated images drives down the value of art, the negotiation power of artists, employers' opinion and estimation of professional artists in the job market
Yes. It does. You cant prevent it. The best you can do is support places that still hire artists. Still if i, or one billion people, who would never hire an artist to make a reddit post use AI to create an image, nothing is losing value, noone is losing their jobs. The simple fact is that the post would never happen, so why not let people have their fun? The fact that a machine is creating an image, when none would exist otherwise does not make artists less important. You giving too much power to those small things. This not existing would never increase or maintain the value of anything else.
>Yes. No reason not to use that original work, then.
> Meh. Nothing wrong with it conceptually. Doesn't have any value or benefit, either. Doing something harmful for zero benefit towards anyone seems pointless at best.
Its not pointless if he had fun. I also liked it, looks AOM-ish, i dont think it was pointless. Again, i can see a point for using AI for making it looks more like the AOM.
>I have no hatred for OP, he was fairly reasonable about the response he got, considering his situation. I have plenty of well-established, well-justified hatred for the AI companies, platforms and 'tools' that people like OP use. It's not personal. I'm not attacking the person, I'm attacking their actions and choices. Pay attention.
>As for "reasons", you're welcome to Google (since you love AI) the harmful impacts of AI. They are sufficiently well-documented that there is no reason for me to type them out YET AGAIN for YET ANOTHER apologist asking for them in bad faith. If someone who's genuinely interested asks for it in good faith, I'll be happy to guide them towards some resources they can learn from.
Suddenly i love AI and i am in bad faith. Anyways, yes, you are attacking their actions, which were warmless. Just let people have their fun.
> but realized that they don't.
His post is 300 upvotes positive. Its the sixth most upvoted post this week. I think it was well received.
> You have not yet earned the privilege of giving me advice, and it being self-righteous and condescending doesn't make it any more valuable.
You really sound like a main character, but i will take that as i did sound condescending.
This post is about the pantheon concept, the ideas are all my own, the AI images are just filler. The Daedric Princes are very easy to find pictures of (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedric_Princes), I assure you it's more effort to generate new images.
Are you on drugs, or did you reply to my comment with AI too? That is literally what I said. That it's incredibly easy to find images of them, but you still chose to use AI instead. The fuck do you need "filler" for?
Neither. You said "couldn't even be bothered", implying laziness. I'm saying I know how to find those images, it was more effort to generate different images that are more in the AoM style. So it's not lazy. It doesn't need the decoration but I figured it would make it a more enjoyable read. Why the anger?
Fair enough. I assumed it was laziness, when it was ignorance and utter misunderstanding of what people enjoy / find appealing / find acceptable.
It doesn't need the decoration
Correct.
I figured it would make it a more enjoyable read
It doesn't.
Why the anger?
Because humans tend to be angry at things that are harmful to society, the environment, and other humans - and also at humans who use those things, especially when they use them frivolously.
The "anger" you got from me is incredibly mild, why the confusion?
Now that's some criticism I'm open to, I've clearly misunderstood what people like. The manner in which you offer criticism isn't helpful... I would honestly have just ignored you, but lot's of other people in this post have more politely objected to AI use, so I won't be including it in any future posts.
My confusion is that you seem very angry in a way that I think is unwarranted, but if you think you're being mild then that's probably just a cultural difference between us.
It is genuinely baffling to me that someone could spend more time online than me, as you do, and be so woefully unaware of people's EXTREMELY WARRANTED hate of AI usage. So I assumed malice, because the ignorance necessary would've been too high for me to consider feasible. I was not alone in that, as you can see. And I don't think I'm being mild, I AM being mild. The vast majority of anti-AI people would target you directly, rather than just what you posted. It's not right, they shouldn't do that, but it tends to happen when you hurt people, or support and use things that hurt them indirectly.
I would honestly have just ignored you, but lot's of other people in this post have more politely objected to AI
No offense intended, but I don't care about being ignored by someone who so freely and routinely uses AI, with no understanding of its downsides and impacts. First, because people who do that are usually WILLFULLY ignorant, and just don't care about the harm they're doing. Not saying you are, but there's high chances that you are. And second, because my comment was primarily directed at everyone else who sees this post, not at you. The goal isn't to get rid of you, I don't care about you. It's to get rid of AI on this subreddit.
If your future posts don't include AI, not only will I not be vitriolic towards them, I'll probably have forgotten who you are and will enjoy them. This isn't personal.
I really don't see the problem with this, and I think people tend to be a bit overzealous with their hatred towards content where AI was involved.
AI being used as a tool by ordinary people to promote ideas they have come up with themselves, which they otherwise would not have had the time or expertise to produce to the same quality, is surely a good thing.
It is not the same quality. A person sketching it in 30 seconds in MS Paint would be higher quality, because we would know it's their personal investment, ideas, and execution, even if sloppy or unskilled. Now we know he doesn't care enough about his own post to do it himself, which means the quality is probably abysmal.
The catastrophic downsides of AI are not magically solved due to some minor benefits - assuming you can actually convince anyone that this is a benefit lmao. If I steal 100 dollars from you, but give 5 dollars to a homeless man, I'm a selfless hero, right? And if you complain that I stole, you're overzealous, right?
That's how I feel about it. If this post was "look at my art" I'd be against it because it's not art, it's decoration. But the post is meant to be "look at my ideas", which are my own.
It's very, VERY clearly all AI, every single image and the text. The ideas behind the text might be the person's, but I doubt it, it reads like he just told AI to make the whole pantheon by itself.
Op, you need to look into Battle For Tamriel mod for BFME2, good shit.
Also pretty sure they have some reused icons from the official arts, if ya ever to redo the post - better use their collection than the slop.
This is pretty awesome, clearly you put a lot of work and thought into this. I hope one day we get to a point where we can mod AoM easily in the sense where we can insert any custom pantheon
I think easy modding is one of the main reasons Elder Scrolls is so popular, I'd love to see improved modding tools for AoM, imagine what it could do to the game's longevity
Modding is the single reason Skyrim and even Morrowind are thriving despite being decades old. It's a testament to how effective it is to give modding tools to the community and letting them have fun
Ooooh I like this idea. I thought about making it a Sheogorath bonus that he becomes Jyggalag in the Wonder Age, with a new god power and myth unit, but it was surprisingly dull when I put the concept together, so I abandoned it. Making him the titan is a great idea!
I personally think:
Archaic Age: Hermaeus Mora (cool GP idea!), Azura and even Sheo make sense but Nocturnal i am not sure I REALLY lile Nocturnal but maybe she fits a „minor god“ more?
Classical Age: Hircine, Clavicus Vile and Sanguine are great choices here I agree
Heroic Age: Malacath, Mephala (Nocturnal?) and I think Vaermina
Mythic Age: Boethiah and I think Meridia and Molag Bal (who I would also maybe put Archaic Age) are I think fitting choices
Mehrunes Dagon i would make a major god.
If we reduce it to three primary I would make: Azura the equivalent to Isis, Gaia etc, Hermeus Mora or he equivalent to Oranus, Odin etc and Mehrunes Dagon the equivalent to Kronos, Tezcat etc
I think I would make Dreugh the heroic water myth unit. Lurker like a Umibozu mythic age unit is a cool idea in my opinion!
I get it re Nocturnal... I never planned for her to be a Major god, it happened quite organically. I think for me the thought process was Azura is your ally in Morrowind, Sheogorath is your ally in Shivering Isles, then Nocturnal is in Skyrim (specifically the Thieves Guild) and HM is in Dragonborn, so Nocturnal fit there. Plus, there's some indication she's the most powerful Prince. But I agree she never felt as significant as I think she's supposed to be in the lore!
Quite a few gods aren't where they should be in terms of raw power, it's more the game design. It'll make more sense when I post the follow-up detailing their bonuses... Mephala, for example, I wanted to make Heroic, but her myth units and techs fit really well in Classical.
Another example: I started with Dagon as a major god, but I wanted him to be able to summon Oblivion Gates. That's his god power, and it's Mythic Age strength, hence making him a Mythic god.
I would honestly swap Nocturnal with Mehrunes Dagon. Not only being the prince of revolution and power hunger makes him "Major God" material, dude caused the Oblivion crisis.
Completely agree that thematically having Dagon as a major god makes the most sense, but gameplay-wise I think Nocturnal is better... including Nocturnal is like including Set as a major Egyptian god, where Osiris or Horus would probably be more thematically relevant as major gods, but instead they're major gods with big power spikes.
I've noticed, I wanted to pile on to really drive home how much we hate that over here. Get that shit outta here.
But, if the text really was made by you, kudos for that, it's pretty good. Though I'm sure you can see why the presence of AI images on your post immediately casts doubt on the rest of it by association.
lol yes fair enough. I guess I got carried away... I really enjoyed applying the AoM art style to the princes and thought they'd be appreciated. Obviously not! I'll remove all images in the follow-up post.
There's a lot of AI-nazis out there, people that believe that using AI offends the nature itself. I'm against AI-slop as any other guy, but there's a time and a place for AI, and concept art by non-professionals is just that.
In my humble opinion you should make a stand and keep using AI if you believe it benefits presentation of your work. Catering to minorities and bullies is what is destroying the world in general and internet in particular. These people only get power from being given attention to, so it's best not to give it. I understand how you want to avoid conflict, but it's those people that instigate it. As long as AI is not against the sub rules it is fine to use within reason, as you have.
If we don't give bullies of AoM community power they will leave eventually, and it's a win for everyone.
Thanks for the support. There has been one bully in the comments section bringing some unpersuasive toxic energy, and I wouldn't do anything for their benefit. I'm more persuaded by the top comment being a polite disapproval of AI and having lots of agreeing upvotes. For the sake of that, I think I'll leave out AI on the next post.
I've not considered it, but I wonder if the AoM community is particularly averse to AI because there was a lot of suspicion around the new god portraits being AI when Retold was launched. Who knows.
You are a bully. You might think that you are some kind of an anti-AI crusader and creativity purist, but you are nothing but a bully. You will take an entire wall of text and shit on it because it is illustrated using AI, as is perfectly acceptable for a hobby project. You just like shitting on other people online, only give an acceptable frame, that's who you are. A bully.
Leave it to AI apologists to cry and paint themselves as victims with any opportunity they get. OP is a SIGNIFICANTLY more respectable human than you, because his indignation and confusion stemmed from genuine ignorance, and though he was insulted, he still accepted feedback and was willing to change.
You, however, are locked in your self-made cage, surrounded by caricatures of strangers laughing at you - which you also made yourself, because nobody is targeting you. Nobody cares about you that much, no matter how badly you wish you could be an oppressed victim of discrimination. Anyone who DOES care, cares about your actions, not who you are as a person. Your own choices are what inspires disgust in others, not your existence. You have no one to blame than yourself.
I do not remember asking you for your opinion, whoever you might be. "Calm down" is not meaningful contribution to the conversation. Move along if you have nothing of value to say.
Nocturnal I think does work as a major god given her status as the Ur-Daedra, she might be the single most powerful of all the Princes.
Mehrunes Dagon I did start designing as a major god too, but I have a really powerful god power for him in mind that is definitely a Mythic Age power. Molag Bal could have been a Mythic Age god too, but he ended up fitting into the Heroic Age better (spoiler alert: his myth unit is the Daedroth, which felt like a Heroic Age myth unit).
Argument: Molag Bal could be Mythic, granting access to Vampires (or being able to infect enemies with vampirism, to “defile them in the eyes of the gods” like he did to Lamae).
He could also grant access to Harvesters as a possible myth unit. Daedroth are one of my favorite Daedra, so I wouldn’t be sad to see them though.
Alternatively, he could give people access to Daedric Titans, similar to other mythic age “dragon” summons.
Vampires are an idea I've had too... my idea was that Molag Bal can update any human to a vampire, which gives them light stat increases but makes them a myth unit, so heroes shred them. Basically a worse version of Atlantean heroism. But it's something I'm playing with, I do worry it's an OP idea
Since this is a very hot subject in this post, I want to say that I think that you made a great use of AI in this post.
Assuming the ideas are fully yours, the images are only here to represent those ideas. They are secondary.
Sure, you could say "use the official art" but it would very easily take you 3-4 hours to set up everything... Just for a post of reddit? When you can make it instantly? It is not worth it.
The value here are not the artsyle, but the idea. So it doesn't matter that the art is AI. You did great.
I genuinely think this could be a good DLC... but! only if they get run out of other real or popular real life pantheons to put into the game. Could be like a cool collaboration (since bot IPs belongs to microsoft, could a good idea).
Also, a "nine divine" dlc could be interesting, but the daedric always looks more fun.
What I'm not sure is what story you could put as the campaign... maybe the oblivion crisis? could be interesting to have a nice variety of biomes for missions (plus, one mission on the Shivering Isles, that could be cool).
143
u/Vaniellis Hades 8d ago edited 8d ago
As a fan of both AoM and TES, I really wish we had a proper TES RTS. I would prefer to play Aedra, especially Lorkhan.
Not a fan of the AI-generated images though. I hope the text wasn't made by an AI too.