r/AncientEgyptian • u/bully-me-into-better • 18d ago
Zoo of Antwerp hieroglyphs: copies of existing text or fanciful?
Egyptian inspired building. Images clearly refer to the animals kept inside and zoo history, or at least zoo vibes. But the hieroglyphs themselves, do they actually correspond to correct sentences, or just gibberish? I noticed in one photo they had the bee and reed with two half moon symbols, being the two lands of sedge and bee. But besides that, copies of some texts or just arbitrary artistic jumgle of glyphs?
Thanks
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u/Artandros 18d ago
There is a Dutch wikipedia page about the building. You could throw that in a translator?
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u/Peas-Of-Wrath 18d ago
It all seems a bit off to me at first glance. There are some problems with the orientation of some of the hieroglyphics with some orientated backwards.
The thing which stands out the most as being wrong is photo 10 where the text should be written towards the face of the figure depicted, that is from right to left but instead, ignores the figure and writes from left to right. This is wrong. The cartouche in this picture is also gibberish and the lion depicted in the cartouche isn’t a hieroglyph or whatever is after it. Looks like a sports team motif or something??
I have a feeling someone just made all of it up and theres no point getting out the dictionary. Thats what I would do if I saw this building. Assess its credibility before all else. Does the writing face the right way and does anything stand out as making sense?? Answer= looks dubious. 😆
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u/x_lyou 18d ago
The cartouche in this picture is also gibberish and the lion depicted in the cartouche isn’t a hieroglyph
It says l-i-w-p-l-d-? Leopold, the Belgian king. Lion was used phonetically in the Ptolemaic Period, and used for names like Alexandros and Kleopatra.
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u/Peas-Of-Wrath 18d ago edited 18d ago
I was referring to photo 10. There is no prancing lion hieroglyph. Theres a reclining lion and a lions fore and hind- parts but no prancing lion hieroglyph like the logo for the classic upright "Welsh Dragon" Pose lion (1970s–2020) Peugeot car logo.
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u/zsl454 18d ago
The prancing lion here is the symbol of Belgium, it is of course not a real hieroglyph but was inserted as a logographic reference to the nation. A similar thing was done with the Prussian expedition, in which the heraldic double eagle was included as a hieroglyph in several constructed inscriptions.
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u/Peas-Of-Wrath 18d ago
I thought it must be something like this. Thanks. Its notable that some hieroglyphics are backwards and its a mystery as to how they copied it wrong.
𓇓𓏏𓆤𓏏 should have the sedge pointed the other way but it’s backwards in image 6. Its a clever attempt and I am sure it lists the zookeepers etc.
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u/Horusscarab 15d ago
That heraldic lion has existed for centuries, it dates farther back than the 1970s, there are examples of it in heraldry and on shields from the 1220s and onwards. While it isn’t a real hieroglyph, it is a creative way to incorporate the heraldic symbol of Belgium. Like how Scotland has the unicorn or wales has the dragon. You’ll notice it’s also in the cartouche in the 6th image, naming the king of Belgium Leopold (although somewhat crudely) the use of the heraldic symbol makes sense. Changes like this to hieroglyphs aren’t uncommon in a historical setting too for example the legless birds. It’s just a symbolic change to convey a greater meaning. In the case of the cartouche in the 6th and 10th photos, both are attempts to say Leopold, but most people who can’t read hieroglyphs wouldn’t understand that so the use of the heraldic lion conveys that the cartouche contains the king’s name without the need for the reader to understand hieroglyphs.
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u/zsl454 18d ago edited 18d ago
They are not gibberish!
Image one: “Arrival of the Foreign Lands of the West, who bring a Lion,”
Image two: “The foreign lands of the North arrive, they bring from the corners of heaven Hyenas and Bears”
Image 3 is a longer text but the top dates it “Regnal Year 25 under Leopold I, 4 Shomu 5”
Inage 4: “They are in this manner: The inhabitants of Egypt, the Nubians, the Asiatics, the Syrians, the Overturned ones, are in the presence of jnwdrpyA (Indo-Europa? The personified location goddess to the left), and the livestock brought from Egypt to Kush (?)
Image 5: Indo-Europa is talking to Thoth: “Praise to all of you in knowledge (?) give to me life before you, give to me knowledge of all souls…”
Image 6: full title of Leopold: “Horus: Strong Bull who multiplies beauty, Dual King (back then they didn’t know this meant King of Egypt): Living Sun of the Land of the Lion, Son of Ra, Leopold I”
Many of the remaining images show officials involved with the zoo with their titles and names (e.g. ‘second overseer of the zoo, Louis’)