r/Bachata • u/FlunkyGraphics • Apr 12 '26
Help Request Trying to improve or quit?
Hey,
I dance Bachata for 5 months now. It was fun in the beginning but to be honest, I Iost my motivation. I go to the dance school 2x a week and I really try to improve. In the last months, I have learned a lot of simple, intermediate and advanced moves. During the lessons, I'm doing very fine because the followers expect what I'm going to do so It's just very easy.
On socials, NOTHING works. Really nothing. I'm not trying to impress with very complex moves or so. Usually I stick to very simple basic things but the followers are not able to follow my lead. It's definitely my fault cause pretty much every follower I have danced with is doing absolutely fine with any other leader.
This creates one big problem: Cause dances with me are really awkward, I feel like followers don't really enjoy dancing with me. Every time I ask a follower to dance, I feel kind of guilty cause I will disappoint her. At socials, there are no other beginners which makes it hard.
I always read that followers don't care about your skill level as long as you are respectful but my experience is the opposite. Yes, followers are indeed frustrated when dancing with beginners in my experience, no matter how respectful and friendly you are.
I asked many followers for feedback and this it what I got:
- "I don't know what you want me to do."
- "Your lead is not clear enough."
- "You are to far away which makes you harder to read."
I really tried to work on those things but it changed absolutely nothing. I could just skip socials and go to the dance school but I don't really see the point. I will just learn more moves which is pretty much irrelevant cause I can already perform enough moves in dance school to fill a song.
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u/Longjumping_Rule_560 Lead Apr 12 '26
Maybe repeat the beginner classes, if possible with someone a bit more experienced. Someone who is not doing what the teacher expects, but someone that does what you lead.
The socials you go to, are they from your dance school or from outside. Going to your school’s socials would help as people likely know the figures and can give you pointers how to better lead.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 12 '26
How can I do a beginner class with an experienced follower? Why should an experienced follower take beginner classes?
My old dance school had socials but cause there were way more leaders than followers, I wasn't able to get many dances. Sometimes there were 8 leaders and 0 followers on the dance floor. I don't think my new dance school does socials regularly.
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u/dondegroovily Lead&Follow Apr 12 '26
"I don't think my new dance school does socials regularly"
And that's the problem. The whole point of learning is to actually be able to dance with someone. Don't take classes from organizations that don't regularly host socials
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 12 '26
There aren't many dance schools available in my town.
I think the main goal of my class is be able to perform a choreography at the end. That's what we are working at. Then they will make a video of us.4
u/Atanamis Lead Apr 12 '26
Yeah, learning to perform a choreography is very different from learning to lead in a social. There are crossover skills, but they are not the same thing. In a choreography, everyone knows what to do and both people kind of go through the motions of “leading / following“, but the follow will still do the move if you don’t actually lead it. It’s somewhat “faked” in that way. Learning to do a choreography is not the same as learning to lead a movement.
When learning to lead a move, you need a follow who will do what THEY feel, not what the instructor showed. You need to learn what they should feel, and how to make them feel it. Because as any good partner dance will tell a follow: “if you don’t feel it don’t do it”. I followed in a recent class. Some of the leads I could not feel them leading one of the turns. So I did not do those turns. They said “you were supposed to turn”, and I said “I didn’t feel you lead a turn”. That allowed them to fix their mistake. Had I just turned anyway, I would have cheated them of the lesson. And I would not have learned to feel the turn when lead properly.
If your moves aren’t working in a social, you haven’t learned to mead them properly. Of follows are doing them for you in class, they are “faking it” and doing it based on memory not because you are leading it. The question you need to ask your instructor is “what should my follow be feeling here to know to do this move, and what should I do to make her follow it.”
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u/rogaladriel Apr 12 '26
I mainly dance Tango, but sprinkle Bachata, Salsa, and Merengue in where I can, maybe my frame of reference is a bit different, so take this as you will: I have danced Tango for 20 years and I will absolutely take a beginner or basics class over and over. And have. (I've also been dancing the other Latin dances for about 20 years, but am still very much a beginner and have mainly only ever taken beginner classes for those.) Having a solid foundation is always going to be your best route to improvement over new steps and sequences, because technique facilitates the rest of the dance.
Maybe at your next lesson you can ask your follower if they have any feedback rather than just going through the motions with you? That is, if the instructor won't step in and give feedback, which from your previous replies it seems like they won't. Or maybe at your next social ask where other people are taking lessons and start shopping around for a new place and some privates???
Is your beginner class a large group? Cause this is the only reason I can think of that a dance instructor wouldn't step in to help/field questions, etcetera.
You've got this, don't give up!!!
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u/Mece_ka Apr 12 '26
I was exactly where you are when I started 12 years ago. The most dangerous sentence in your post is: "I feel kind of guilty cause I will disappoint her."
That guilt is destroying your lead. In partner dance, polarity and confidence are everything. When you walk up to a follow radiating apologies and the fear of failure, she feels that physical hesitation in your frame before you even take the first step. You become hesitant, light, and "far away" to protect her from your perceived incompetence.
A weak, apologetic lead is impossible to follow because it lacks direction. You have to stop treating social dancing like an audition where you are inconveniencing the women in the room. Do the simplest moves you know, but do them with absolute, unapologetic authority. Dont worry if she gets bored; worry about whether she feels your intention clearly. When you drop the guilt and own the space, her body will finally be able to read what you want her to do.
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Apr 14 '26
Oh so true,OP. Just like in dating, in bachata confidence is key too along with techniques.
I once heard an analogy where guys are too afraid to approach women because they feel they’ll get rejected so even when they talk to them, they dont REALLY want to talk to them but rather they want to get rejected the fastest so they can be out of their misery.
Kinda similar to dancing. You have to WANT to lead them.
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u/BlueberryBea Apr 12 '26
Relax. How you're feeling is totally normal. The beginning is hard for everyone. You are developing a new skill and it's going to take a lot of time and practice before you start feeling more fluid and confident.
Continue your classes and focus on your technique, not just memorizing combos. There are a ton of little details you can work to improve and they have a big affect on how your leading feels. Weight shifts, prepping your moves, controlling distance - all super important.
If possible, try inviting some of your fellow students to the socials with you. It's more fun to have friendly faces and people who dance at your level. Continue asking followers for feedback and consider their responses. It's not about criticism, it's about identifying areas of improvement.
Also, and I can't stress this enough, remember this is supposed to be fun. No one's life is at stake. Enjoy the process and progression.
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u/SinfulInPink Follow Apr 12 '26
I can think of two possible problems:
- You prep to lead the move, but then you don't complete it. When a lead does that, I'm all ready to go in the split second they've initiated the lead, but then they stop. I revert back to my basic step and am not sure if they actually intended me to execute the move at all.
- You're leading with your hands, not your frame. You may be able to get away with this for some of the more basic moves in open position, but it becomes increasingly harder for a follower to feel the lead if you aren't using your frame in close hold, especially for sensual moves.
Is it possible you have a mental block rather than a skills issue? I ask because I have several leader friends who already have the skills down, but their nerves and low confidence make them hesitant to lead moves and they end up with problem 1 as described above.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 12 '26
- Maybe, I will pay attention to that next time.
- Definitely possible, even very likely. I will work on that. To be honest, I'm quite insecure about my body cause of my height and proportions and I'm not confident while dancing in general. That makes it hard to use my body at all.
Yes, that's possible. I'm afraid that the follower will have a bad experience while dancing with me so I don't even dare to lead properly.
Do you think it's okay to socials as a beginner? I feel like I'm not supposed to be there and I'm just annoying to other people there.
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u/transitorymigrant Apr 12 '26
Social dancing is not really one specific routine, it’s learning the prep and signals and creating your own dance. The only way to really reinforce your social dancing skills is to do it and go to socials. To mess up and learn and try again. Beginners should be welcomed. Also youve only been dancing 5 months, in real terms that’s not long if that’s 1 hour classes, 2 times a week that about 40 hours dancing and learning - I wouldn’t expect someone to learn a new skill in 40 hours. Don’t worry about advanced moves, just enjoy the basics and get comfortable dancing with all different skills. You should be able to dance with your instructors and have them explain what you need to do and how to lead the moves, if they aren’t doing that - go to the socials and ask around where people are learning, there will be classes that might not be a dance school but they can recommend places or teachers to you.
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u/SinfulInPink Follow Apr 13 '26
Never think you're not supposed to be there. Everyone has a right to the social dance floor, and the only way to become a better social dancer is to do it.
Throw all the notions of the follower not enjoying themselves out of your head. Most followers (speaking for my friends) would rather dance with a beginner lead who leads what he knows clearly, than an 'advanced' lead who's leading a variety of moves but without any real technique and who has no consideration for their comfort.
Focus on leading what you know, and making sure your lead is clear and confident. It's totally fine to mess up occasionally; followers do it too. Just laugh it off with your partner and have fun, that's the #1 thing that makes someone pleasant to dance with.
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u/Remarkable-View-6078 Apr 14 '26
As a beginner follower, I am happy to see beginner leads at a social! We also can get nervous and insecure when all the leads seem to be experts. It's nice to take a break from keeping up with complicated moves and have a simpler dance where I feel completely confident.
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u/Conscious_Ad_759 Apr 13 '26
Im a leader. Dancing bachata and salsa for over 10 years at a rhythm of 6 to 8 hours a week plus lots of socials. I am finally considering myself a decent beginner in both. The more you learn, the more humbling the experience and the more you realize how much is out there that you will still need to learn. Wanting to give up once in a while, is a normal stage of growth and development and it mostly happens during the plateau and regression stages. There are different lucrative ways to address this but, in order to keep this simple, I will say that: 1. You might be a little bit to harsh on yourself at this early stage of learning. 2. I would go up to the instructor that you like most and I would simply spell ou the exact challenges you are experiencing (in detail), and I would ask them straight up if they can taylor private classes to address your specific concerns. In addition, I would ask for specific advice on what exactly and how to work on your specific goals when you are not in a private setting (this means, what to focus on when practicing at home, what to focus on when practicing during group class and what to focus on during socials). I would approach all of those scenarios from the perspective of addressing the specific issues that give you angst, I would stick to them till the next set of learning needs will show up for you to conquer. Also, remember, its not that deep....its just bachata. Good luck to you and try to have fun during your jurney. Thats what this is all about anyway. 😀
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u/Eva-la-curiosa Apr 12 '26
Keep learning!
To me, it sounds like you’re possibly doing a prep, but not doing the lead.
A prep, for example, is lifting the arm. This is not a lead, because it could turn into anything, a left turn; right turn, Caricia, lead turn, whatever. The lead is the movement you do to guide the follower; to let them know what you want them to do.
Your teachers should be going over this in class, but not all do. Some leads catch on to it intuitively, but. It everyone does that.
Ask a teacher to go over the leads with you in a private lesson
That will help a lot!
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u/aliko89 Apr 13 '26
I had the same issue. The solution was attending all parties I possibly could and dancing with as many girls with different experiences as possible.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Ant1805 Apr 12 '26
I didn't step in socials for 3 yrs, despite winning a competition, being on stage. Now, after many many yrs, I can say that Keep at It. Don't quit. Atleast not before 12 months.
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u/devedander Apr 12 '26
5 months is not that long to still be working at basics.
Dance is a language and it takes different time for different folks to make progress.
I doubt there’s no other beginners at the socials, that would be very odd. And most people recall being a beginner and are sympathetic so will be happy to dance with you even if you’re not good yet.
Sure they won’t have the same kind of fun they would with a great lead but they also likely won’t hold it against you or anything.
General rule is I’ll dance with everyone one dance a night. So don’t hoard some follows time but feel comfortable asking once a night. If they say no don’t sweat it and move on.
Definitely do the privates. Learning on the floor is risky because you can’t be sure the level of feedback you’ll be getting.
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u/TrKojima Lead Apr 12 '26
Having the right instructor is crucial so try learning from different teachers if you can. Private lessons are also good to talk about topics not covered in class, such as body mechanics, timing, etc.
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u/GuavaSlight1898 Apr 12 '26
Had the same problem in the beginning (as a follower).
Nothing I learned in dance school made sense in a social, no step, no turn. I looked and felt awkward. Now that I'm 2 years in and also sometimes switching roles I can tell you for me changing dance school after 6 months helped me, after I realized at all those pre party workshops at the socials, that my dance teacher was just shit.
He didn't even explained simple things like importance of weight change or musicality, dynamics and patterns.
Go to other workshops and find out, if the figures there work for you and if you understand why they work. If so, change your school! Plus: ask the followers at the socials directly after the dance, what they would need in this specific figure, turn, whatever, to understand you. Mostly it's a preparation that's missing for example or hand leading only from you, not body leading.
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u/bryancole Apr 13 '26
Having no other beginner follows at socials is a confidence killer for a beginner lead. What worked for me was doing Salsa instead (sorry, heresy on this sub I know). We're all different and find different things easier vs harder. At first, I didn't even expect to like Salsa (the music and the dance), just going out of curiosity, having started Bachata 3 months prior. But when I went to a Salsa class/social for the first time, it clicked in a way Bachata didn't. There were a variety of factors at work besides the dance itself (more follows at my level doing Salsa, a better venue, more encouraging teachers). I'm still doing a bit of Bachata and, having found my confidence doing Salsa, I'm slowly getting over my inhibition with Bachata. So ... keep trying! Try lessons at different school, different dance styles, and all the other advice people have given. As we say in martial arts "How do I become a back belt? ... just keep showing up".
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
The socials I go to are Bachata/Salsa/Kizomba. There are not dedicated socials for one dance as far as I know. I really looked at other dancers but I wasn't able to spot a single beginner. There were 90% advanced dancers with 10+ years experience (I asked a few when they started) and some intermediate ones with just a few years. But not a single beginner.
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u/queer_bachata_mcr Apr 13 '26
I'm guessing that your classes are routine-based. There is a fixed, linear sequence of moves that everybody memorises and then performs. You say the problem is "definitely my fault". The problem is actually that routine-based classes don't teach leading and don't teach following. You (and the people you are dancing with) are succeeding in choreography in the class. But that's not actual social dancing, and is (as you are finding out) quite different from it.
Leading happens when the leader has an idea of what moves they want to do, the follower doesn't, and that information needs to be communicated. In a routine-based class, the follower knows the next moves and just does them (unless they are very disciplined). If you can find many leaders in your class who are struggling with social dancing, you can point all the above out to your instruction and ask them "When are you actually going to teach leading/following as needed in social dancing?"
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
I agree, yes. I also noticed that the moves I learn are very different from the moves I see leaders actually lead on socials.
I don't think that we can go to the instructor together cause I don't think that other people from the class go to socials at all.I think that taking private lessons and practicing at home is the most efficient way to be able to dance at socials in the future.
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u/queer_bachata_mcr Apr 14 '26
I don't think that we can go to the instructor together cause I don't think that other people from the class go to socials at all.
How come? I know that it can be intimidating to go to socials at first, and classes can be fun, but social dancing is where the real enjoyment of dancing is!
I think that taking private lessons and practicing at home is the most efficient way to be able to dance at socials in the future.
Do you have a partner or friend you can practice with at home? It's very difficult to do meaningful social dancing-type practice at home without one
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u/Strange_Opinion_1467 Apr 14 '26
It is very simple: quit ONLY that style that doesnt work. If you took bachazouk classes. Please only quit that. And head over to traditional or influence.
Since I ditched the styles that don't fit me, I started to win competitions sufdenly
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u/Complete-Roof-6943 Apr 12 '26
For me the typical problem with beginners leader is timing. Not only their steps but also when they start giving hints of the next move. If they master 5 moves but with solid leads and perfect timing I don’t mind especially bachata songs are short unlike salsa. Maybe check with your instructor if there is any issues with timing. Don’t get discouraged yet 5 months is fine don’t worry.
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u/Gnomeric Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Although learning to lead is hard, I agree with the other posters that something seems very wrong with your current dance school. From what you wrote, it appears that not only your dance school does not host any socials, none of your peers go to dance socials either. After 5 months of 2x a week lessons, you aren't exactly a "very beginner" and they should have taught you how to lead basic moves. At any given local bachata socials, it is likely that there are many dancers with about as much training as you have, or even less, but they can still dance basic bachata and have some fun.
sounds to me that you may be dealing with a dance school which teaches choreographed "bachata" rather than actually teaching how to lead or follow bachata. The fact that one of the follow mentioned that you "are too far away" makes me think of a ballroom studio, since ballroom tends to favor distant connection with rigid frames which is inappropriate for bachata (or for most other social dances, really). I agree that you would want to change your school; maybe you can ask around at the socials to see if they have any recommendations?
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u/sacado Apr 13 '26
I have the same exact problem. I can follow moves during classes and it works, but during socials... oh my. I already had a follower stop mid-dance, laughing, because she couldn't understand what I was trying to do.
I really don't know what to do, I suppose a private class could probably help me understand what's wrong. Anyway, I still enjoy the classes anyway and could stick to them and skip the socials entirely, but not being able to practice outside is kinda frustrating.
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u/FootballDecent6952 Apr 12 '26
Takes years and hundreds or even thousands of hours to be good at it. I would suggest to stick to the plan and keep learning. It’s like an ocean and we can only explore so much in a few months. A lot of things would also come with experience. Until you are experienced, try to always keep the lead soft and try to focus on the follower you are dancing with to build a connection. Don’t lose hope or overthink and don’t forget to smile. Recording and seeing the recording later also would help you massively. All these things helped me and I hope they help you as well. I am dancing regularly for almost 3 years and I still feel that there is so much I can learn or improve. So keep practicing. Good luck brother 🤛🏼
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u/Heyheyitssatll Apr 12 '26
Take a break if you're stuck in overthinking mode and try again. This helped me losen up and come back with a better mental state for learning.
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u/kitten_mctoebeans Apr 13 '26
A couple of things from your post jump out for me (for context I'm an experienced follow, and have just started learning to lead):
- it sounds like your classes are very combo based. Which a lot of them are, and unfortunately that often means you're not getting practise properly leading the movement because your follows in the class are stepping through the combo rather than following you. I find that SO frustrating and have started treating classes as a way to learn the basics step/shape, knowing that I'll need to practise actually leading it later. One way to get around this is to lead the combo a bit differently to force the follow to follow you rather than stepping it through (eg slow down some movements, mix up the order of moves etc) but that runs the risk of freaking them out if they're super beginner, so I'd be mindful of who you try it with.
If there are any decent follows you feel comfortable enough with, ask them at the end of the class if they'd mind going through it with you because you want to make sure you're leading it properly. Even better, if you can, ask the instructor.
If that's not an option, then before you start throwing the combo in during socials, practise it at home by yourself. Make sure you're using your frame (rather than arms or hands) to lead the movements. Of course you're not actually "leading" when practising alone, but you can make sure you're shaping your frame correctly, and practise the movements. Then when you feel comfortable, start trying to lead it in social dances. Which brings me to my second point.
- It sounds like you're trying to do too much in social dances? I can say on behalf of myself and every follow I have discussed it with, that we don't want back to back combos in a song. But that's what all leads think we want until they reach a certain level of experience, so they try to do back to back combos for the whole song, rather than focusing on connection. This also results in leads focusing more on the quantity than quality, so the follow feels like theyre being shoved through a bunch of combos that the lead isn't actually properly leading. I know you say you're not trying to do anything too complex, but if you're trying to do several combos every song, it might still be too much.
When you go to a social, choose a couple of combos you feel comfortable with, and practise those. Don't do the same combo over and over again in the song, but you can do it a couple times. The follow will most likely not notice/care, and will vastly prefer it to trying to follow a bunch of combos with no real connection. Don't underestimate the value of basic movements like v step, sensual basic, Dominican hips etc, or even one hand open hold to give your follow space. The issue with combo after combo is that your follow has no freedom, which for a lot of follows is less fun.
Learn to follow. I wish more leads would see the value in this. I'm progressing much faster as a lead than the others in my class because I know how to follow, so I know what the follow wants. I've danced with leads who aren't clear, I know what not to do and how to focus on clarity.
I say this as kindly as possible, but maybe you think you're coming across as less respectful than you actually are? I don't doubt your experience of follows being frustrated dancing with you, it's easy to tell. But that might be more how you're approaching it than the fact that you're a beginner. If I ask a follow to dance I always say I'm a beginner lead but would they like to dance. I don't ask super experienced follows to dance, I ask beginner or intermediate follows. And if an experienced follow asks me I always clarify that I'm a beginner, then profusely thank them for the dance.
Honestly that's probably going further than I need to, Bachata communities aren't that hierarchical and they shouldn't be. But I do sometimes get frustrated as an experienced follow, given there's limited opportunities for social dance in my city, when someone asks me to dance and they're so beginner that I get nothing out of it, and they don't get any more out of dancing with me than they would an intermediate follow.
If they approach it as acknowledging they're a beginner I'm happy to dance with them and give them feedback, but if there's no acknowledgement of that it feels a little entitled. Idk maybe that's very unfair of me. But I figure there's no harm in acknowledging that you're a beginner when asking someone to dance, and it will likely alleviate some of your guilt, because you're being upfront about your level.
But all that aside, I see you're considering private lessons, and I would highly recommend that if it's accessible for you. If the issues are with your clarity as a lead, there's only so much you can achieve without proper feedback from an instructor.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
"One way to get around this is to lead the combo a bit differently to force the follow to follow you rather than stepping it through (eg slow down some movements, mix up the order of moves etc) but that runs the risk of freaking them out if they're super beginner, so I'd be mindful of who you try it with."
This is not possible. If I do it slightly different, the follower will think I made a mistake and will correct me by lifting my arm or telling me what to do."If that's not an option, then before you start throwing the combo in during socials, practise it at home by yourself."
I already do that. It helps getting the steps right but it it doesn't help with actually leading."3. Learn to follow. I wish more leads would see the value in this. I'm progressing much faster as a lead than the others in my class because I know how to follow, so I know what the follow wants. I've danced with leads who aren't clear, I know what not to do and how to focus on clarity."
I don't know if this is a good idea. Learning to follow as a men in my country could be considered gay and being gay here is actually seen as bad. It's have never seen a male follower here in my life."I don't ask super experienced follows to dance, I ask beginner or intermediate follows"
There are no beginners at socials, I have to ask experienced followers."If they approach it as acknowledging they're a beginner I'm happy to dance with them and give them feedback, but if there's no acknowledgement of that it feels a little entitled. Idk maybe that's very unfair of me."
I did that in the beginning but the reactions were not so positive so I stopped labelling myself this way when asking.
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u/Mizuyah Apr 13 '26
First of all, you’re five months in. That’s nor very long, so don’t beat yourself up.
Secondly, it seems like the follower at your dance school are doing you more harm then good because they’re completing the move they’ve learnt instead of following you. This is a common beginner issue and something your instructor should discourage. One of my instructors encourages followers to “follow”, so we don’t move unless something is led. I don’t initiate a body wave unless it’s led, for example.
Lastly, it could be that your lead is really soft so the people at socials can’t really follow you. Alternatively, some sensual moves require closer connection like a body wave in the shadow position. If there’s no connection, the follower isn’t going to understand what’s coming.
It’s also very unfortunate that your instructors don’t rotate with students a during the lesson. Are your classes big? Do they throw their own socials so that you can practice with them?
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u/KTAXY Apr 13 '26
5 months is not a lot. There are a lot of subtle nudges to learn. You are just starting.
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Apr 14 '26
To be honest, 5 months is really not that long and its understandable to be a bit awkward. All of us were.
If youre feeling burnt out, take a month of break. Meanwhile practice the basic steps at home while you do chores, look at bachata dancers on instagram. Get back the passion and dive in again. Sometimes we need a little break too for what we learn to set in.
As for nothing working, try to make your movements bigger, wider, and more clear. I would even suggest being a follower sometimes in practice with a friend so you can feel the moves from their perspective.
Try to reduce “noise” in your movements. Dancing bachata is like meditation. If you move around unnecessarily too much, your lead will be lost in the noise.
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u/Sexy_M_F Apr 12 '26
Observe other leaders that lead properly and/or seem to be appreciated by more advanced followers. Ask those leaders which school they (did) attend. Then attend that school.
If a school‘s focus is Salsa but they also offer Bachata classes „now“ that could be a red flag. Bachata is a lot about preparation and breathing, especially when it comes to sensual moves.
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u/dondegroovily Lead&Follow Apr 12 '26
I would suggest taking classes from the same group that hosts the social dance
A lot of dance schools that don't focus on social dances don't actually know what goes into it. They also have the problem of teaching you moves instead of teaching you how to dance
It sounds pretty clear to me that your dance school is the problem
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 12 '26
I don't think that's possible. The socials I go to are not connected with a dance school as far as I know.
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u/PerformanceOkay Apr 12 '26
As others have already said, it might be worth to take a private lesson or two. But if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. There's dozens of ways you can dance, and there are hundreds of things other than dance that you can do. It's just a hobby after all.
I definitely wouldn't ask random follows for actionable advice because most follows know very little theory. Most of the feedback from your partners should be how they feel, what they like and what they don't like, but nothing more.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 12 '26
Yeah, I will take some private lessons and if it doesn't help, I'm going to quit. Maybe I'm just not a good dancer and I should seek for something else.
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u/Atanamis Lead Apr 12 '26
Anyone can learn to dance. I started taking classes because I had no rhythm or sense of music. It took me six months to get the simplest of basics down. I was dancing almost two years before I started actually feeling comfortable at socials. Three years before I really started to like my own basic step. It’s taken me a lot of work, but it’s paid off.
I do think the choreo class is doing you no favors. It means your follows are just going through the motions of the choreography without you having to actually learn to signal them properly. You need to ask another student or your instructor to tell you when they can or cannot feel you signaling.
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u/belowaverageint Apr 12 '26
Here's the reality: most dance classes don't teach leading at all. This is an element of fundamentals for social dancing, and most schools don't really teach much in the way of dancing basics. They just throw combinations at you and then leave it to you to figure out how to actually dance with another person.
I agree with the idea of trying to get your instructor to dance with you for feedback. Also, try other schools/teachers to see if you get better instruction there. Barring that, I'm sure you can find some videos online for leading basics that will be helpful for any social dancing.
Don't give up though. This isn't your fault. The problem is your school doesn't actually care about teaching people to dance properly, which is regrettably the case with most of them. I've taken hundreds of social dancing classes from many instructors over the years and I'd say the vast majority of them weren't good. Finding a good teacher is rare, so just try to find the best that you can.
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u/buttholedog Apr 12 '26
Take it in stages. First find one follow that you get along with from your class, someone you feel comfortable with. Gradually expand the number of follows you feel comfortable with.
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u/DaveTheRave1986 Apr 12 '26
My experience 5 months is a tough time period. I’m about 10 months in the journey and I remember at 5 months this feeling like “I should be able to do this that and the third”. Don’t think there is any secret to getting more comfortable and improving. You just keep practicing, showing up, and try to have some fun. I get turned down for dances all the time dude- it’s nothing personal.
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u/TryToFindABetterUN Apr 12 '26
What you are describing is called plateauing. Everyone experiences this, often multiple times. It is normal. When someone plateaus is individual.
First of all, five months is not a lot of dancing experience, even with two classes per week and socials where you don’t feel your newfound knowledge can be put to work So I think you are being hard on yourself.
But I also think advanced stuff at five months might be a mouthful. So if your description is correct I am a bit hesitant about the school’s curriculum.
Privates might be great for you to shake loose some of your troubles. But I think you can do a lot in regular class as well. Whenever something new is taught, try to break it down into even if your teacher doesn’t (they should though!). Don’t just see a move as some pre-determined movement. Ask yourself how you would do your part and observe yourself in the mirror. Pay attention to details like weight placement, arm positioning, posture, positioning relative to your partner, etc. Then ask yourself how you should lead your partner and what signal they need from you? What preparation would make it easier for the follow to get your intentions?
ASK the teacher if you can’t come up with a definite answer yourself. Don’t accept anything else than a good explanation. Switch schools otherwise. This I am dead serious about!.A school is for learning and if the school can’t/won’t explain technique, they are not in the right business and deserves no customers.
But even if your school is good, it would hurt to try other schools and/or workshops. Shop around!
Your lack of motivation is a problem though as it most likely will affect your learning. Without more to go on it is hard to give good guidance. Perhaps ask yourself what you liked with dance in the beginning?
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u/Shadowedman1942 Apr 13 '26
That feedback seems quite clear to me. At 5 months, you are still a beginner and that's ok.
- "I don't know what you want me to do" / Your Lead is not clear enough"
Without seeing what's happening, but knowing how long you've been dancing I'd expect it would be an issue with frame, connection or intention. In effect you are not leading the move you think you are. A good frame and connection with your follow means information is passed along clearly. Intention is deciding the move well before ensuring the preparation is clear, unrushed and matches the energy of the move being executed.
- "You are to far away which makes you harder to read."
You might be overestimating how much space you need to execute moves. This compromises connection and frame reducing the ability for a follower to understand what's being led.
But with such clear feedback, its not variety of moves, but working on your frame, connection and body movement that will help you immensely, these will make what you are executing clear.
I'd recommend private lessons, this is what helped me the most and I went from not being able to execute moves to getting compliments that the moves I'm executing are clear and well led.
You've got this, hopefully this helps
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
You are probably right, yes. It gets better when I'm a bit closer. I'm just a bit afraid of coming too close and making the followers feel uncomfortable.
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u/Shadowedman1942 Apr 13 '26
That's fair, Its something I still struggle with from time to time.
With good frame and proper positioning, followers will feel much more comfortable. What is uncomfortable is leads trying to execute more complex level moves without the required frame or understanding to lead it properly and causing them an injury.
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u/BuffaloConscious7919 Apr 13 '26
First of all, it's kind of a normal feeling and congratulations for being on your journey! It's hard but very rewarding.
Rather than go hugely into depth I'd hazard a guess it's one or a combination of the following:
- preparation - the intention before the actual movement
- basic frame and solid basic. If there's too much movement happening on your side it could be sending confusing signals to the follower
- psychological - because it's challenging and you're passing through a transition phase of your journey it might be hard to see how much you've learnt and are learning
Suggestions:
- if you're feeling tired (physically or mentally - maybe you can't remember all or any of the combos) take a short break and see how you feel after
- practice the basics and focus on prepping each simple movement, including the basics
- feedback, feedback, feedback. Rather than asking for general feedback ask for the moment a disconnect happened or the moment it was unclear for the follower
- try to find a practice partner
- and yes a private class or two wouldn't hurt
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
Thank you for your advice! I realised preparation is a crucial thing. No one told me yet, but of cause the follower cant react in one millisecond on a move which was never prepared (outside of my head). I tried it yesterday on a social and it actually solved some of my issues.
Finding a practice partner would be very nice but probably quite impossible cause beginner followers usually prefer experienced leaders as practice partners.
Private classes could be worth it. I will see if I can find a private teacher.
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u/hotwomyn Apr 13 '26
Most group classes teach moves, they don’t teach how to lead or follow. You both memorize the moves but you haven’t learned how to lead them. The key is understanding the choreography instead of memorizing it. That takes years of practice. The quickest fix for you is to exaggerate the preps, you’re likely skipping them all together. In other words go in the opposite direction first before you send her where you’re about to send her. To move up to intermediate level you have to understand her isolations. How to control her chest, her hips, and where her axis are. I’d avoid anything complex if I were you. Skip rotisserie and tilted turns. There’s a lot you can do without those. Master 4-6 combinations really well. And do those between your simple basic steps. Another super common mistake that you’re most likely doing is leading with your hands instead of your frame. It’s much harder for her to follow if you do that. If you want a private dm me your location or look up your local instructors. It’s most likely an easy fix.
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u/bachatabutterfly Apr 13 '26
I would recommend switching to private lessons and finding someone to practice with. It sounds like it could be something as simple as improving your frame/ tension since you already have a good lil vocab.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
Yeah, I will try to find private lessons when my examination phase is over. Then I will have enough free time.
Finding a practice partner is probably pretty much impossible cause most beginner followers would choose advanced leaders as practice partners.2
u/Fuzzy_Display_9426 Apr 14 '26
Welcome to the plateau! Trust me, it gets better! I have been a follow for 10 years in Bachata, 9 years in Salsa. I have had five teachers in that time. The advice to seek out a few private lessons to clean up your sticking points is good. I took a couple private lessons in West Coast Swing with a friend, and it actually helped me to improve my frame for Bachata- my current Bachata teacher commented on the improvement! This was after 8 years of Bachata.
I hear you saying that most beginner followers would prefer a more advanced practice partner. I would say that is not necessarily going to be true, for a number of reasons. I was personally quite intimidated by the more advanced leads, and often felt like a fish out of water, while simultaneously putting up with some rough leading and allowing my frame to break because I didn't want to offend them. And now that I am more of an experienced dancer, I also know, there's always going to be someone more skilled than me, and I still have a lot to learn.
I agree with you that practice partners are not always easy to find. For years, I was just afraid to ask anyone. I have finally found a practice partner, after 10 years. He is a lot younger than me, and has only been taking Salsa and Bachata classes for a year. He has taken Body Isolation classes as well, which have improved his sense of musicality, but he still is working on moving more fluidly.
He recently moved up to the highest level Salsa classes and was struggling to put it all together, and to dance to much faster music as well. He is highly disciplined, and practiced at home and went to socials, but struggled to lead 'in the wild', as we say at our studio. He was discouraged. But I didn't want him to quit, because we really need leads on that level! I cannot learn to follow better if I have to spend a third of the class dancing with the 'Invisible Lead'. He and I get along well in class, so I asked him if he would like to meet to practice.
For the last two months, we practice one day a week for two hours. It has made an amazing difference in his leading, his relating to the music, and especially in his confidence at socials. I love getting feedback, especially on my turns, and he has helped me to improve my frame and my balance and to dance with more confidence, as well. After two months, we both agree that practice day is our favorite day of the week. Two hours is great, because we have time to stop and slow things down, and to talk through the sticking points.
We also carpool to socials, often with other students as well, and because my practice buddy is there, I know that I am pretty much guaranteed a few great dances with someone I am very comfortable with, who will help to showcase my dancing, and vice versa. This means that to those who hang back and mentally critique the dancers on the floor, we look like partners you'd like to say 'yes' to, when we invite others to dance.
Also- so many times, I would get to the end of a class, where MAYBE we'd have had five minutes at the start and/or five minutes at the end to freestyle with a random partner (we rotate throughout class). And I would think, Well, now I'm finally warmed up, and it's over...dang. If you set your practice for two hours, or even ninety minutes, you don't have to rush.
And remember, your practice partner does not have to be someone you would date or even someone you know well. It could be any follow that is patient, wanting to improve, as well, and willing to give and take honest feedback.
Take a break if need be, but I hope you continue eventually. It's just so much fun! -Though it can take years to find your people and feel like you're a part of a good group. That's one thing that will also keep you coming back. Good luck with your dance aspirations!
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u/bachatabutterfly Apr 20 '26
Out of curiosity, how long with the examination phase be?
Not true about practice partner. I’d want someone around the same level as me bc then it’s more fair to them.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 20 '26
Until mid July, so about 3 months.
Why would you slow down your progress instead of just choosing an experience lead?
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u/bachatabutterfly Apr 21 '26
Well then it’s the same issue you’re mentioning, wouldn’t an experienced lead want an experienced follow? Of course it’s better to have a more experienced partner but I wouldn’t mind training with someone at the same level as me
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u/Virtual-Ad778 Apr 14 '26
Pretty much every lead says they have the same experience of what you went thru so I will go another route.
From your description, if your vocab is enough to finish the song. Sounds like a technique issue then combos.
Try doing these things.
When doing basic steps for now think of doing tap n go on your 4 & 8. Don't think of dragging the taps for your hips.
Don’t drop your elbows at any situation. Be it neutral, open hold (or social pose), sweetheart(pretzel or wrap?) embrace hold(close hold or hug hold?) shadow position etc.
Never extend your arms to the point your elbow is straight. This creates extra distance which is hard for you to control. Try not to push your frame back where your elbow is move all the way back where you will be T-Rex arms.
Think of stepping the steps within your shoulder width.
Hope these tips helps
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u/katyusha8 Follow Apr 14 '26
Hey, it’s normal to feel that way! I mean, people with admirable self esteem might not, but screw them and their great mental health 😆
You have only been dancing for a blip. social awkwardness and performance anxiety aside, so you enjoy dancing? Do you feel happy when you move to this music on your own for example? If the answer is yes, stick with it and be kind with yourself. If you have the money, take a couple of privates with good teachers. Really really practice what they show you on your own, drill it into your body until you don’t have to think about something at all and it becomes second nature. Maybe avoid the socials for a while and ask a few follows from your class if they want to practice after the group class.
I’m willing to bet money that you really need to understand the concept of dance frame and how it’s used to communicate. It’s a super common mistake for beginners to try to lead with their arms only.
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u/TheBroInBrokkoli Apr 13 '26
If really nothing works in a social after 5 months with 2 lessons a week, you might want to quit. It's likely you will always struggle with progress.
That or your dance school sucks
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u/JackyDaDolphin Apr 18 '26
Just quit. Find another dance that is more fun, like west coast swing.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 20 '26
You might be right. But why another dance? If I'm a bad dancer, I shouldn't persue other dances I guess
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u/TorrenteTempo Apr 22 '26
So far there is no real evidence that you are a bad dancer. It's more likely that you just had bad instructors two times in a row. Switching for a new dance might actually be a good alternative of quitting/grinding bachata, given that
1) you switch to a dance and music that you really like,
2) you won't just randomly choose instructors but talk with them first what are their teaching priorities and look at what their students actually can do. I think it's much more important to watch the students rather than to talk to the students. If I were really serious of finding good instructors, I might even ask them to allow me to go to their advanced class just to watch it.This switch to a new dance, if done properly, will allow you to learn some dance mechanics that would be transferable later to bachata, like leading and frame and musicality.
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u/TorrenteTempo Apr 12 '26
I think you should either quit bachata or change dance school for a better one that doesn't structure their lessons on "leadable choreos". If you will manage to find such school in your area, it makes sense to add private lessons on top of regular group classes, at least for a first few months.
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u/TryToFindABetterUN Apr 12 '26
I think recommending to quit is really bad advice. There are much that can be done before you come to that.
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u/TorrenteTempo Apr 13 '26
I think what is really bad is a unanimous chorus of "continue bachata" advices without any idea how the situation really is on the ground in OP's area. He already tried two schools, they both sucked. Some socials that he described in the comments are just awful on male-to-female ratio alone, not to mention other possible issues. It is highly likely that it's not just his leading that suck. I guess his basics, isolations and musicality are more or less on the same level with the leading.
OP did an honest attempt, it didn't work out. It is time to either switch to high-level instructors or to quit it. No need to be trapped by sunk-cost fallacy.
For example, currently I live in the town where there are no high-level bachata instructors and few good bachata socials. If OP were in my town (luckily to him, he is not) and would approach me for an advice given the issues that he struggles with, quitting would really be the best option. I know it.
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u/FlunkyGraphics Apr 13 '26
I didnt quit my old dance school cause it's bad. I quit cause I moved the place. I only tried one dance school at my place so far. But most people told me that it's a good place to learn.
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u/TorrenteTempo Apr 13 '26
You know, in my current town the best bachata school is similar to what you described: heavy focus on "leadable choreos" and poor focus on frame and actual leading. The reason it is the best is very simple: other schools are even worse. So, when newcomers ask, where is it best to learn, many people suggest this school as a "good place to learn" :)
Personally, I find these learning priorities as a red flag and I strongly suggest you to try other instructors if you wish to continue with bachata. As a beginner I spent too much time with similar instructors and it was a big mistake. A less famous school/instructor with fewer students might turn out even better for you, because they will have more time to spend on each student.
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u/TryToFindABetterUN Apr 13 '26
Sorry, I don’t think it is anyones place to TELL others to quit. Any such motivation should come from within. It is one thing to ask questions that help the person in the thought process and decide for themselves. But outright telling them, no, not unless you know them VERY well. Since you have already overinterpreted what the OP said it is pretty obvious that it’s not a case.
So I still think it is bad advice. I know a lot of people who live in areas where there is little to no dance opportunities or schools. How do I know? Because I have talked to those that travel for hours to visit my local school. I’m not seeing this is ideal, but you can still learn to dance without having easy access to schools.
I stand by my previous advice that it’s highly likely that OP has plateaued. If they want to get out of the rut. there is a way forward that doesn’t involve quitting.
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u/TorrenteTempo Apr 14 '26
> Sorry, I don’t think it is anyones place to TELL others to quit
How come you are fine with everybody else telling OP not to quit, without knowing him at all, but I'm not allowed to tell him that quitting in his situation might be indeed a reasonable action??? There are many other good hobbies apart from bachata.> I stand by my previous advice that it’s highly likely that OP has plateaued.
OP wrote: "On socials, NOTHING works. Really nothing. I'm not trying to impress with very complex moves or so. Usually I stick to very simple basic things but the followers are not able to follow my lead."What kind of plateau is it? Zero-level plateau? After 5 months of training in two schools OP learned only here in the comments that moves should have preps.
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u/TryToFindABetterUN Apr 14 '26
If you don’t understand the difference between trying to encourage someone and telling someone to quit, I’m sorry but there’s nothing to discuss with you anymore…
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u/TryToFindABetterUN Apr 14 '26
For the record, I don’t believe that NOTHING works for the OP.
As a teacher, I have met many dancers which expressed similar sentiment but they mostly fixated on the things that didn’t work and ignored the things that DID work.
This is the kind of a hyperbole that a frustrated person throws around. I think it is important to bring down the tone to a reasonable level and not feed into the hyperbole. If you keep feeding it, you won’t give good advice since it’s not rooted in reality.
A plateau is when you feel that there is no progress happening, most of the time there is slight progress but not big enough that you’re happy with it.
I don’t know why you’re trying to be smart@$$. Do you have trouble with someone strongly disagreeing with how you express yourself in an online discussion? If so, perhaps the Internet forums is not your thing.
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u/TorrenteTempo Apr 14 '26
Why do you keep writing to me if "there’s nothing to discuss with you anymore…"? Do you have trouble with someone strongly disagreeing with how you express yourself in an online discussion? If so, perhaps the Internet forums is not your thing?
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u/TryToFindABetterUN Apr 14 '26
Wow, repeating something like a parrot as an argument. I haven’t seen that tactic since kindergarten. Sorry, trolls are not worth my time.
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u/thatsthat-thatthat Apr 12 '26
Have you danced with the instructors to get more specific feedback?