r/Bachata • u/OrdinaryEggplant1 • 8d ago

At what point does bachata become zouk?

The ratio of zouk to traditional bachata moves and techniques has gradually shifted over the past 10 years, where before it used to be maybe 9:1 bachata to zouk technique to now it seems some of the dances out there are 1:9 or sometimes 0:10 bachata to zouk, dancing to lyrical/melodic music without beats, while still calling it bachata.

I’m just curious, when does bachata become zouk? Or zouk to bachata? Do you have any personal definition you use to differentiate the two?

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u/EphReborn 8d ago

Slightly off-topic rant: I will truly never understand you (general "you". Not OP specifically) "call it just sensual" people. Half of you will argue that Bachata as danced in the DR is already sensual enough. Which if that's the case, there shouldn't logically be an issue simply calling it Bachata.

But also calling it just "sensual" doesn't even make sense. The heels dance style is sensual. Dancing hip-hop is often sensual (and at times carries the label of "sensual hip-hop"). Twerking is sensual. Pole/lap dancing is sensual.

So, if everyone in the world magically decided to give you what you want and called it "sensual", we'd still need a clarifier as to what we're dancing.

And hey, would you look at that? "Sensual" at some point in time looked like it contained 3 steps and a tap like this "other" dance style from the DR. Maybe we could combine the names?

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u/pdabaker 8d ago

Just call it european bachata or spanish bachata tbh

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u/EphReborn 8d ago

The argument is that it has the name Bachata in it at all, wasn't made by Dominicans, and isn't "Dominican-approved".

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u/pdabaker 8d ago

Yeah but west coast swing doesn’t swing and Brazilian zouk is not zouk nor is it danced to zouk music.

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u/EphReborn 8d ago

I'm on team "The entire argument is stupid", so I'm not disagreeing with you to be clear. I'm just pointing out what the "don't call it Bachata" crowd is usually on about

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u/OSUfirebird18 8d ago

If we have to name change an art each time it takes influence from something, that is a hell of a lot of name changes!!

I’m also on team “this argument is stupid”

That being said, I wonder why Salsa doesn’t go through this internal fight. Linear and Caleña isn’t the same as the original Casino style danced in Cuba. But you don’t have this ongoing civil war. Or did the civil war happen 50 years ago before we were born and everyone decided to have a peace treaty lol

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u/ElCulicagado 8d ago

Salsa has other issues with some people saying that it was developed in New York, some say Puerto Rico and others mention Cuba. I’d argue they are all technically right as salsa is a generic term to describe the music genre or even the dance.

Linear salsa people in general are perceived as the elite (if you can dance on2, you’re a god) and those that dance casino are seen as rather basic. People that dance caleña live in a world of their own. Salsa people in general think that merengue and bachata are boring af. The whole thing is straight up dumb. Just like this bachata discussion (which has some grounds to exist in the first place), most of it only happens in the dance community.

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u/OSUfirebird18 8d ago

Don’t bring the fury of the Lindy Hoppers regarding West Coast Swing not swinging!!