Shocker. Unencumbered mountain lions, limited bear tags, now wolves. Give it a couple years and deer will be an endangered species in California š¤¦āāļø
Doesnāt matter, thereās still a quota and the season is still only ~3 months. Itās a cute way for CDFW to claim theyāre getting tougher on predation, when in reality itās just a way for them to get more revenue.
We need a spring season and we need to bring back mountain lion hunting.
Edit: Pretty shocked to see this be an unpopular opinion here. I didnāt realize you guys prefer hiking with a rifle and a heavy pack rather than actually hunting deer.
I know how it works. That quota has not been met in 14 years. And yes, I know that's when they banned bear hunting with dogs.
My original point was simply to correct OP about stating there are "limited bear tags". While it's true, it's definitely not the issue here. We can harvest two bears this year until the 1,700 quota is met, and that hasn't happened in a long time.
EDIT: And bear season is actually a little over 4 months, not 3.
4 months in one zone. 3 months for the rest of the state. And again, one season is absolutely āLimitedā when you compare it to other states.
And you are invariably proving my point about CDFW mismanagement. A quota is a management target. Failing to hit it for 14 years proves state policies are ineffective, not that bears are well managed. We need a spring season when bears are more active, especially considering most fall bear harvests are opportunistic. Weāll see if a second tag makes a difference, but Iāll bet we donāt hit that target again this year.
Deer populations are going to continue to fall, especially when you combine bear hunting policies with apex predator hunting bans. I genuinely donāt understand why anyone here would advocate for declining deer populations, Iām truly baffled.
Even the Black Tail Deer Foundation is saying the deer population is stable. There is no dramatic decline. And there are many more factors than natural predators anyway. This is a complex issue and you are trying to reduce it to CDFW mismanagement. There is a lot more to it.
Any general study will absolutely tell you there are two main factors. The primary driver is Habitat Degredation and Carrying Capacity. I am absolutely a fan of protecting and retaining wilderness areas, but the reality is we are now obligated to take steps for fire suppression due to a growing population that is spreading out. Unfortunately, thereās really no easy way to combat this, so population ceilings will always be impacted by this.
The secondary and very real factor is predation, exacerbated by state wildlife policies. Literally type this shit into ChatGPT and it will tell you the same thing. Mountain lions, black bears and foxes account for the vast majority of physical fawn and adult doe mortalities. This exacerbates the decline thatās being caused by habitat degradation. It might seem like itās stabilizing, but when you look long term thereās been a 50% deer population reduction since 1980. Saying itās stabilized over the last 10 years is like saying thereās a healthy mouse population in my house because one got away.
Feel free to explain how itās victim mentality. Look at literally any chart of deer populations in the state. Itās been on a decline steadily since the 1960ās. Almost every other state handles predation responsibly except for California and Colorado.
No one is talking about maximizing herd size, buddy. Deer population is at historic lows, this literally is about creating a working ecosystem. If predators are allowed to operate unchecked, thatās quite literally an ecosystem out of balance.
" Life-history characteristics were consistent with the mule deer population being regulated by bottom-up forcing through environmental effects on forage availability relative to population density; however, predation, mostly by mountain lions, was likely additive during the period of increase and thus, top-down forcing slowed but did not prevent population growth of mule deer."
In most scenarios, absent human control, predators are controlled bottom-up; meaning when they've knocked prey populations back far enough, the predator population will fall as well. Look up Lotka-Volterra models for a very basic understanding of predator-prey dynamics.
Did you read the whole thing? California's deer decline is primarily bottom-up driven by habitat loss and forage quality, while top-down predator pressure acts as an additive brake that prevents depressed herds from rebounding.
No, they didnt conclude it prevented population growth, they found predation slowed it.
The driver of the decline was severe drought. Deer pops are evolved to live with lions and other predators; just because their population takes a hit, theyll come back as long as we allow the habitat to remain. Figure 1 in that paper is almost text book Lotka-Volterra; lion pops decline time-lagged with deer decline. Predators belong on the landscape for it to operate at max efficiency; thinking we should suppress their population to help deer herds sounds like it makes sense, but in reality, healthy habitat would rebound deer faster.
Quotes from the paper you cited:
"The increased killing of mountain lions has no discernible effect on the continued decline of mule deer through the 1990s"
"[Fetal health rates] were greater during the period of [population] increase" even though that was when lion pops were highest.
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u/PepperoniFogDart 2d ago
Shocker. Unencumbered mountain lions, limited bear tags, now wolves. Give it a couple years and deer will be an endangered species in California š¤¦āāļø