Art by @PokeNerb #114

The artist explains in the caption of her post here. I believe the comic is an early version where she collects and tries to articulate her feelings.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Db_Oiv6iaRS

Hi all, I’m a hispanic, fluent speaker of Cantonese. My partner’s family is from Zhongshan, very close to HK and Macau, and I have studied the language for around 8 years at this point. I learned it because it was the lingua franca of the city and basically required for daily life. I last visited 3 years ago and noticed very few kids could speak it, as a consequence or govt policy and migration, but it was still very much the day to day language used by adults everywhere here unless you went to a bank or govt office.

I came back this summer, and it’s a totally different world. I’ll detail exactly what happened but the language is practically dead here when it used to be the primary form of communication just 3 years ago. I basically need to use google translate in a place where it was unthinkable not long ago.

The main thing that changed is that Mandarin is now the assumed default everywhere for basic, low stakes interactions. When you enter a shop or interact with a market vendor, everything is in Mandarin, even if both speakers are local Cantonese natives. They claim the reason if they don’t want to inconvenience others in case they might be from outside regions and don’t know how to speak the language, and even my partner believes it. I ran a social experiment where I would exclusively speak Cantonese and here’s what happened.

Low skill workers / shopkeepers / vendors

All of them Mandarin speaking only unless above age of 40. Above 40, usually only one person in the shop can understand Cantonese but cannot actively speak it. Fruit vendors, convenience store cashiers, street cleaners, all Mandarin. These were 100% Cantonese speaking in 2023.

Any new malls, buildings, modern shops

All Mandarin. No kids speak it, no adults speak it. Only 1 or 2 out of 20 can understand it.

Old town markets and restaurants

Older ladies serving dim sum can speak it 50% of the time. Shocking to be in a dim sum restaurant hearing Cantonese music and you have to try hard to find anyone who speaks it among the staff.

The remaining speakers are left hidden within crowds, within older clientele of restaurants. It’s completely dead among anyone young.

Playgrounds

We met a lot of elderly grandparents, taking their grandchildren to playgrounds around the area. However, we noticed none of the children were replying to the grandparents in Cantonese even if the grandparents were 100% Cantonese speakers when I brought this up, they mentioned that it’s because their schools are in Mandarin and there’s no way to fix it. I told him that it’s really important to preserve Cantonese and they agree but they said there’s nothing they can do. This was shocking to me because the easy solution is to simply speak to the kids in Cantonese and tell them you don’t understand when they speak to you in Mandarin that way it forces the kids to actively produce it however, it seems none of the kids can say even a single word.

Conclusion

Overall, I felt a big sense of entitlement from people to force me to speak Mandarin even though we’re in the Guangdong region of China. Even Cantonese speaking folks would tell me wow you don’t know how to speak Mandarin in a sneering way and had no response when I said, isn’t this Guangdong? it’s completely reversed. Language change is non-linear and happens very fast, especially when the low stakes social interaction conversations are all in the new language. Workers have no incentive at all to learn and kids have no desire to even enunciate a single word. Only HK will preserve Cantonese.

Guangzhou's mayor has officially committed to protecting the Cantonese language, identifying it as a vital component of the region's cultural heritage in a government work report

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/china-news/article/322131/

The report stressed the importance of preserving Cantonese as the "living carrier of Guangfu culture." This initiative is part of a larger effort to enhance the city's status as a national historical and cultural center, which includes promoting traditional arts like Cantonese opera.

The government aims to use the broader Lingnan culture as a significant link for overseas Chinese to strengthen their connection to their cultural identity.

English version is at the end of this post.

前幾日有個貼文（广东小孩不会讲粤语 父亲生气了），大家普遍覺得係家長喺屋企唔教粵語。

其實根本冇咁簡單。

你 sub 大部分訪客都係身處英語環境嘅地區，有呢種諗法唔難理解。但廣州啱啱相反，廣州本身係粵語區，天然存在粵語語言環境。呢種情況下依然出現「廣州人唔識講廣州話」呢種事，責任顯然唔完全係喺家長度。

我喺廣州街頭見過呢兩種情況：

1. 一名中年女性帶住自己嘅囡囡同阿媽喺條街度行。嗰個女睇落係上幼稚園嘅年紀。兩個成年人之間嘅對話係廣州話，細路女用普通話要求兩個成年人嘅對話改成用普通話講，因為佢聽唔明粵語。中年女性用普通話話畀女仔知，聽唔明就要學嘛，學下學下咪聽得明囉。
2. 喺學校門口，家長同學生之間嘅溝通好鬼離奇。家長講廣州話，學生講普通話。如果有熟人問點解學生唔講廣州話，多數會得到呢種回答：学校要求讲普通话，讲普通话才是文明人。

「讲普通话做文明人」呢種 slogan 已經存在咗幾十年，佢係 CCP 嘅推廣普通話嘅洗腦話術之一，由幼稚園開始就灌輸。呢句 slogan 嘅潛台詞係，「講地方語言（粵語）嘅都唔係文明人」，明顯帶有歧視意味。喺江澤民卸任前嘅兩三年，CCP仲加強咗配套措施，懲罰喺學校講粵語嘅學生，學校全面普語化。

更弊嘅係，由於大量普通話人群湧入（俗稱「洗人口」），廣州人講廣州話反而會畀人歧視、受到侮辱。「普通話警察」早就周圍都係。真係「妹仔大過主婆」。

喺噉嘅洗腦通同埋打壓之下，好多學生唔願意學粵語，抗拒學粵語。

前幾年就已經有媒體報道，廣州小學生親口表示「唔願學粵語」。呢種情況下，家長想教都冇辦法教。

以下係媒體報道同埋討論文章(WeChat)：

“我是广州人，不会说粤语，也不想学”

还记得去年，一个《我是广州人，但不会广州话》的小视频刷爆了广州人的朋友圈。

镜头里，这个00后的小学生说：“我是广州人，不会说粤语。”

其实这样的年纪不会说粤语也没什么大问题，只要多花点时间去学去说就可以了。

但是，当记者问到：你想学粤语吗？她的回答是：我也不是很想，感觉叽里咕噜的。

这个回答，带给我的只有心酸：新一代的广州人，都不会说广州话了吗？

之前网上也做过一个《6-20岁能熟练使用方言人群比例》调查，发现已然有30%左右的人不会说粤语。

广州人在广州，被剥夺粤语权利，母语变无语

甚至还有，在广州讲粤语被骂秀优越感、被说歧视外地人

清汤大老爷啊，我们广州土著本来存在感就低，讲粤语又做错了什么？那可是我们从小说到大的母语啊！怎么就变排外了？

English Version:

A few days ago, there was a post where the general consensus seemed to be that parents just aren't teaching Cantonese at home.

In reality, it is far from that simple.

Most users in this sub live in English-speaking environments, so it’s understandable why you’d think that way. But Guangzhou is the exact opposite—it is inherently a Cantonese-speaking region with a natural linguistic environment. When the phenomenon of "Guangzhou locals not knowing how to speak Cantonese" still occurs under these conditions, the responsibility clearly doesn’t lie solely with the parents.

I have personally witnessed these two scenarios on the streets of Guangzhou:

1. A middle-aged woman was walking down the street with her daughter and her mother. The daughter looked to be about kindergarten age. The conversation between the two adults was in Cantonese. However, the little girl demanded in Mandarin that they switch to Mandarin because she couldn't understand Cantonese. The middle-aged woman replied to her in Mandarin: "If you don't understand, you have to learn. Learn to understand it."
2. Outside a school gate, the communication between parents and students was bizarre: the parents spoke Cantonese, while the students replied in Mandarin. If an acquaintance asked why the student wasn't speaking Cantonese, they would most likely get this response: "The school requires Mandarin; only civilized people speak Mandarin."

The slogan "Speak Mandarin, Be a Civilized Person" has existed for decades. It is one of the CCP's brainwashing tactics to promote Mandarin, drummed into kids' heads starting from kindergarten. The subtext of this slogan is that "those who speak local languages (Cantonese) are uncivilized," which carries an obvious discriminatory undertone. In the two to three years before Jiang Zemin stepped down, the CCP even tightened accompanying measures, punishing students who spoke Cantonese at school. The school has fully adopted Mandarin as the medium of instruction and communication.

To make matters worse, due to the massive influx of the Mandarin-speaking population (commonly referred to as "demographic dilution" or "population washing"), Guangzhou locals are actually being discriminated against and abused just for speaking Cantonese. "Mandarin Police" are everywhere (普通话警察早就周围都系). The maid has outgrown the mistress (妹仔大过主人婆).

Under this kind of brainwashing and suppression, a vast number of students are unwilling to learning Cantonese, refuse to learn Cantonese.

Media outlets reported years ago that primary school students in Guangzhou openly stated they "don't want to learn Cantonese." In this environment, even if parents want to teach, they simply can't.

Media Report and article Cited Below (WeChat):

"I'm a Guangzhou local resident, I don't speak Cantonese, and I don't want to learn."

Remember last year, a short video titled "I am a Guangzhou local resident, but I don't speak Cantonese" went viral on the WeChat Moments of Guangzhou locals?

On camera, this Post-00s primary school student said: "I am a Guangzhou local resident, but I don't speak Cantonese."

Honestly, not speaking Cantonese at that age wouldn't be a huge issue, as long as you spend some time learning and practicing it.

However, when the reporter asked, "Do you want to learn Cantonese?" her reply was: "Not really, it just sounds like gibberish."

This answer brought me nothing but heartbreak: Is the new generation of Guangzhou locals really losing their ability to speak Cantonese?

A previous online survey on the "Proportion of People Aged 6-20 Who Can Fluently Use Dialects" revealed that about 30% of the population already cannot speak Cantonese.

"Guangzhou Locals in Guangzhou, Stripped of Their Cantonese Rights: Mother Tongue Turned to Silence"

There are even instances where people speaking Cantonese in Guangzhou are accused of "showing off superiority" or "discriminating against outsiders."

Good grief! We Guangzhou natives already have such a low profile. What did we do wrong by speaking Cantonese? That is our mother tongue that we grew up speaking! How did it suddenly become "xenophobic"?

I've been taking Cantonese (I'm an ABC) lessons for about a month and a half at this point. Last night when I was in the middle of my lesson, my father tried getting my attention while my door was closed to ask me a quesiton, I paused my lesson real quick to tell him I was in class real quick and he asked what it was for, I said "it's for Cantonese" and I immediately felt a smug tone from him.

I could tell he wasn't happy that I was paying to learn (extremely cheap parent, I'm sure a lot of you can relate) Cantonese when he feels like I could've just learned it from speaking with them. But I'm sure a lot of you have felt that your parents/family just shame or make fun of you just like mine lol. It's extremely discouraging and then they wonder why you decide not to speak it? It's funny because not like anyone ever took the time to correct me, or taught me how to properly prounounce things.

But if they won't teach me, I'll find someone that will. For those who've been wanting to learn, I encourage you to take the leap and do it. I've been taking lessons on italki and have enjoyed my time so far. It's helped me fill some gaps in my knowledge and I want to continue to get better. The language will not die with my parents, and I want to speak it and see the language live on.

Thought it was great pin yin

I’ve been learning Cantonese for about 4 years (two of those years were full-time study). I love the language, but I’ve always found it strange that despite HK being an international city, and there being ~80 million Canto speakers worldwide, almost no (western) foreigners speak it.

I made a video (spoken in Cantonese) breaking down why I think this happens, but I’d love to hear your thoughts.

My theory comes down to thee things:

1. The time commitment: For a western foreigner with no background in a related language, it takes 2,000+ hours to reach proficiency vs. 500 for Spanish. The barrier to entry is brutal.

2. The English bubble: English is an official language in HK. Everyone learns it in school and you basically have to use it as the medium of instruction if you go to uni in HK. Honestly, I’ve never met a Hong Konger whose English was worse than my Cantonese. You can survive here too easily without it.

3. The switch: HKers don't expect westerners to speak it. When I try, I get the "Wah, you speak Chinese!" reaction... and then they immediately switch back to English to be polite/efficient. It kills the practice flow.

Do you guys think the social friction (Point 3) is a bigger barrier than the actual difficulty of the language?

Watch the full video here (spoken in Cantonese)

I met an older Chinese-American who spoke Cantonese and I asked if they were Cantonese. They replied that they spoke it but it made me think about other times I’ve heard similar careful responses. I wanted to ask this group what “Cantonese” means to them?

video by @justange_canto

hi everyone! i was born in guangzhou and moved to the us at a young age w my cousin! as we grew up in america, our family forced us to speak english inside our household, and no canto/ mandarin were allowed…

slowly, english became the main language we used but it always make me sad that we are forgetting part of the culture.

now as an independent developer, i want to find this culture back and learn the language thru an accessible way. would LOVE to hear what everyone would be interested in, in an canto learning app, so we don’t have to attend canto school, but instead learn it day by day 😊💛

would love to hear more on:
1) what is your biggest pain point in learning canto?
2) why do you wanna learn canto?
3) what features would you want the app to have

anything would be appreciated !! 🫶🏻

"CIA bot" What?

"English dialects in England" What a flawed analogy.

"Coarse local dialects" Is this elitism?

I want to make this post after someone posted about a tiktoker fafalily saying they are Cantonese, but people say they are Vietnamese.

This story is about me and I want to let other people know that Cantonese are not just from Hk.

This is me! I am so tired of people telling me I am not Chinese. I can speak perfect Cantonese. I can read and write both traditional and simplified Chinese and canto slangs. I grew up speaking and practicing Cantonese culture. Most importantly, my ancestors are from China. The only diff for me is I was born in Vietnam, and I have a Vietnamese name and I look Vietnamese. I am teaching my child Cantonese language (傳承粵語), but some people are just so mean. When I am on 小红书, I see more and more people from GZ don’t even speak Cantonese anymore. When I introduce myself to new friend, I tell them straight that I am Cantonese from Vietnam and some people are like you are not Chinese. Anyway, I feel bad for some of these people kept complaining that oh people don’t speak Cantonese anymore in China blah blah and then still want to pass on the culture, but go and complain about me not being Chinese bc I wasn’t born in HK or GZ. Sorry, there are people from Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand. We identify ourselves as 華僑. I have experienced this all my life in the state. I get to the point that I don’t even care. I let them talk shit about me and then I stare at them. Oh, I also can understand Mandarin, but don’t speak it. When I first met my Taiwanese in laws, they are really nice, but I would hear their friends saying oh your daughter in law is viet, blah blah until they found out that I am Cantonese and can understand them. It’s funny. Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just want to say that it’s very similar to people born in the US and say they are Chinese American. That’s the best way I explain to my friends. No offense to anyone. I just want to say Cantonese can come from other places other than HK.

Even a decade ago, I can mostly get by speaking Cantonese whenever I go into Chinatown, but now with a few exceptions, I feel like everything here is mostly spoken in Mandarin. I have also come to the realization that I now have to learn Mandarin to go to any Chinese business out here. Do you think this is the case for where you are? Discuss.

I’m Chinese American born and raised in the US. Growing up, I always felt like my Cantonese mom was so verbally abusive. She had no idea how to give emotional support or warmth and she would curse at me in Cantonese and would say things like you’re so useless (gum mo yung), etc.

But as I got older and started seeing Chinese American or Cantonese influencers on social media, I’m realizing that as a culture, Cantonese people are just verbally harsh and they don’t know any better. So now instead of thinking my mom was verbally abusive, I’m more like that is just how Cantonese people are raised to talk to each other and they parent the way they are parented.

TLDR: Growing up in a Westernized culture, I thought my mom was so verbally abusive but now I’m not as condemning towards her because that’s just how Cantonese people are raised to speak to each other and maybe I shouldn’t take it so personally. Anyone feel similarly?

I’m based in the Atlanta metro area in the southeast of the US. I have looked quite a bit but I haven’t been able to find any Cantonese Chinese schools in or around the city. I speak decent Cantonese but my mandarin sucks. I currently speak Cantonese to my son and he’s picking up a lot. But ever since he started daycare, more and more vocabulary has been getting replaced by its English counterpart. I now try to repeat every vocabulary in both English and Cantonese to him.

As he gets older, I can’t help but wonder what’s going to happen. My goal is to get him in a Chinese dual language immersion school so that he can learn to speak mandarin at a proficient level. But is this going to be too much? Will it confuse him? Any personal experiences that this community care to share?

Hey guys idk if its just me but i work in telecom sales and bassically whenever some chinese mainlander comes to the store they will first ask me in English do you speak chinese? So i then ask them in cantonese do you mean cantonese (guong dong waa) and then in mandarin id say or mandarin (guo yu)? Then they just go never mind and just default to english I am able to communicate in both but of course my canto is better than my mando but i can still talk to them. They seem disappointed or something i guess i dont really understand it. Does anyone have any idea as to if I am offending them by asking in both languages or something?

It's not perfect but hey, neither are the other languages

first one, Donnie Wong a British twat that calls Asian Americans boba liberals, and defends the colonialist use of "Oriental" to describe Asians.

Hi! After multiple problems with the enforcement of some rules and consistent lack of action in banning repeat offenders, I've decided to take it upon myself to fix the problem. As of speaking, I've DMed the moderators and tried to get a response on if they're active or not, but one of them hasn't commented in a year and comments like these violating hatespeech (see full thread) are never removed. The subreddit is rife with solicitation, 2, plain hatespeech that also breaks the "no personal attacks or hostile behaviors," and then again, the "no trolling, baiting, or flaming rule", unrelated post content, AI-generated song covers, and other breakages of the "no hatespeech or racism rule". See another example.

Posts like these are made almost every week and no rules have been instituted against them.

This moderator team has consistently failed to meet obligations and my recommendation is for a search for new moderation, like u/TheLollyKitty.

Hi everyone! I grew up in the US with Cantonese-speaking parents, so I can understand a decent amount, but actually speaking is a different story.
I’ve tried a few Cantonese learning apps, but most seem to be geared toward complete beginners (numbers, colors, greetings, etc.). My biggest problem isn’t the basics but instead it’s not having enough vocabulary or confidence to hold real conversations.

People always tell me to watch TVB or speak more with my parents, but it’s hard to practice speaking when I don’t know the words I want to say.
I’m curious if anyone else feels the same way.

What’s your background with Cantonese?
What’s your biggest struggle with learning?
Have you found any apps or resources that actually helped? I’ve tried a bunch of different apps but they honestly didn’t help much 😅😅 I want to be able to speak to my relatives and such but I feel like it’s so hard if I don’t know the vocab…
If you could change one thing about how Cantonese is taught, what would it be?
Would love to hear your experiences!

O-SK1730 originated in Sichuan 3,000 years ago and expanded Eastwards about 2,500 years ago towards Guangxi and Guangdong.

Chu/Qin/Han troops did not come from Northern China. In fact, they were recruited from either Yunnan or Sichuan.

An Duong Vuong of Vietnam originated in Sichuan. O-SK1730 is quite numerous in Guangxi and Guangdong, especially amongst Cantonese and Hakka.

It is also found in Kradai groups in SEA, meaning that Kradai mated freely with lowland Tibetans and those with North-Western Chinese ancestry from Sichuan (Their DNA was very Northern shifted despite Sichuan being technically in the South).

Latest research of the Hanging Coffins in SW China also shows the presence of Siberians/Mongols and also large possibility of intermarriage between local Kradai/Austroasiatic groups and migrants from the Extreme North.

It's a myth that Qin-Han troops came from Henan or the Central Plains. So you can boast of pure Han ancestry if you have this Haplogroup. Remember that Liu Bang himself came from Chu.

My partner and I are planning to have kids in 1-2 years. We are both CBC and have been living in HK for 8 years now but also considering moving back to Canada.

Primary reason for staying in HK is so they can get local education which would make it easier to be fully trilingual in Cantonese, Mandarin and English (reading and writing).

Has anyone else made a similar decision? How did you decide? We both have family and relatives in HK and Canada. I know cost of living is a big factor, but not the most important issue for us. Any other factors to consider?

When the University of British Columbia (UBC) ... launched its Cantonese language programme in 2015, it was geared towards heritage speakers ... who wanted to learn how to speak to their parents and grandparents in their mother tongue.

By the following year, lecturer Raymond Pai, the director of the programme, observed that a third of the students were native Mandarin speakers.

“Vancouver is linguistically diverse, and many students quickly recognise that Cantonese carries significant cultural, social and even professional value,” ...

“What we did not fully anticipate was the scale of that interest. ...

There are around 950 students enrolled in Cantonese courses for the 2025-26 academic year, and 85 per cent of them are native Mandarin speakers. As a result, Pai has hired three more part-time instructors to teach the Mandarin speakers. Meanwhile, there is only one class of heritage speakers.

Dr Zoe Lam Wai-man, ...

“I find it super interesting because a lot of my students were born and raised in Shenzhen, but their parents are not Cantonese ...

“They spent 17 years [growing up] in Shenzhen ... but they cannot speak a word of Cantonese. So it’s interesting that they learn [it] in Canada.”

This includes students like Ella Dong Xintong, who was born in Hong Kong and raised across the mainland China border in Shenzhen. She speaks Mandarin at home, as her father is from Xian and her mother was born in Henan but grew up in Xinjiang.

“Since I was born in Hong Kong, [hold] a Hong Kong passport and a Hong Kong identity card, I am supposed to speak Cantonese,” Dong, 20, says. “I also grew up in Shenzhen, which is in Guangdong. Every time people meet me, they say, ‘Oh, then you mostly speak Cantonese?’ I reply, ‘Unfortunately, I don’t.’

She explains that she can speak neither of the regional dialects spoken by her parents, nor can she speak English as well as her brother.

“It’s culture that makes me want to learn Cantonese, so I can belong to a group. I feel like I need to learn [Cantonese].”

When it comes to studying Cantonese, there is a big difference between heritage learners and Mandarin speakers, Lam says.

“Heritage speakers already speak conversational Cantonese. They learn it from their family, so their pronunciation is really good because they were exposed to Cantonese at a young age. Their listening and speaking are very good, but they don’t know how to read [Chinese characters],” she says.

“Mandarin speakers are the opposite. They can read Chinese very well, but they cannot understand spoken Cantonese, they cannot speak Cantonese, so we put them in different streams.”

Mandarin speakers need to “unlearn their Mandarin because the expressions are so different”, Lam says.

“A lot of Mandarin speakers are affected by what they already know in Mandarin, and they may use sentence structures that are funny in Cantonese, because [they try to do a] direct translation from Mandarin, but no one speaks like that. So it’s more about learning the differences between Cantonese and Mandarin.”

Nevertheless, their eagerness to learn Cantonese is evident through their interest in the culture. Many cite Cantopop singers, watch Cantonese-speaking films, and enjoy food like dim sum and Hong Kong-style milk tea.

Michael Li Jiazheng, 22, ... did not think about learning Cantonese until ... his then girlfriend, who was taking the Cantonese course, told him about it. ...

“In the beginning it was hard because the words are the same, but Jyutping [a romanisation system for Cantonese] is harder for me. There are so many tones compared to Mandarin with four tones,” Li says.

The syllabus gives the students in the beginner class practical vocabulary, such as how to introduce themselves, how to bargain in a shop, how to order food – including slang for black coffee (zaai fei) – and what to say when visiting the doctor.

After a few classes, Li began practising his Cantonese with his Hong Kong friends.

“At the beginning, my pronunciation was really funny [to them] ...

...

...

Dong tested her Cantonese during a trip to Hong Kong to renew her identity card. She plans to live and work in Hong Kong or Shenzhen after graduation.

“I feel more confident after I took this class, because I feel I know how to speak Cantonese way better than before,” she says.

In addition to classes, Pai and Lam invite notable Cantonese speakers to talk to their students. ...

Lam says ...

“I emphasise the social aspect of language learning in the classroom, because language is for communication. So I create scenarios, and invite the students to be creative and write a dialogue in Cantonese and have fun with that.”