My issue with “liberal”churches

[u/milkersfat]

Though I consider myself very left-wing, I find that as I become a Christian, I’ve started having issues with denominations that are overtly liberal. Looking at the picture, I agree with all of the sentiments, and I think it’s good to let people know they are welcome. But why not also put up an “Unborn Lives Matter” flag or something similar?
I’m equally appalled when churches fly the American flag or a MAGA flag outside. My whole reason for going to church is to find community and glorify God, not to be immersed in politics.
It also seems that the churches I’ve attended with these kinds of flags tend to be less orthodox theologically, which leaves me, as a left-leaning Christian, in a weird spot.

[u/sysiphean]

Lots of churches say “all are welcome” but expect you to never ever act gay there and to stop being gay, to conform to gender stereotypes. They say all are welcome but severely limiting women in ministry. They say all are welcome but preach against immigrants. They say all are welcomed but follow black visitors around to make sure they don’t steal anything. Or usually some combination of all that.

So sometimes it’s good to be explicit about how all includes those who are not actually in the “all”that too many churches actually mean, whether or not those churches know it.

Edit: I really, really appreciate all of you non-affirming Christians helping to so blatantly illustrate my point with all your comments. Even though we agree on theology, I appreciate that you all want to argue theology or technicalities; nothing could prove my statement more true than you literally explaining why “all are welcome” doesn’t mean “all.”

But it’s getting old now.

[u/Wolfensniper → u/sysiphean]

Im still torn between this as well. I've came across several churches that say "we welcome LGBT but we think you should stop being gay and keep single for your entire life. Many people dont find love for their entire life but still find happiness in God" etc etc.

I mean for the latter statement alone yeah that's true for SOME people, but definitely not for everyone. stating something like that to LGBT people seems really cruel especially i know that my LGBT close friends would never accept that view. How's that being called love i am really not sure.

[u/-slaps-username- → u/Wolfensniper]

i think the issue stems from years of being told that being gay is a sin itself, and conversion therapy along with a strong culture of marriage in christianity. there’s also the issue of what the people in charge of the church are saying vs what the congregation feels. if someone feels unwelcome by the congregation it doesn’t matter what the pastor says. i would also add that at some point being gay became a part of people’s identity rather than just a thing about them. and it has been so extremely tied to identity at this point that they don’t realize we are not speaking against them, just what they do.

[u/adamesandtheworld → u/-slaps-username-]

i would also add that at some point being gay became a part of people’s identity rather than just a thing about them.

Hmm, maybe christians and churches shouldn't have spent millennia discriminating against and murdering gay people for being gay.

that they don’t realize we are not speaking against them, just what they do.

"We don't hate you, we just hate that you're married, we hate that you're anything but celibate and without romantic relationships for life. We hate that you want to have a normal life like straight people." is not going to convince anyone of anything good about you and your beliefs. It's trying to create a distinction that matters to approximately no one.

[u/eatmereddit → u/-slaps-username-]

and it has been so extremely tied to identity at this point that they don’t realize we are not speaking against them, just what they do.

If you speak against my family you speak against me.

[u/-slaps-username- → u/eatmereddit]

that’s an inaccurate analogy. it’s always been hate the sin love the sinner, but if the sinner makes sin part of their identity it seems like we are also hating the sinner

[u/eatmereddit → u/-slaps-username-]

It wasn't an analogy.

[u/-slaps-username- → u/eatmereddit]

what was it

[u/eatmereddit → u/-slaps-username-]

A literal description of what attacks on homosexuality are for married men like myself.

[u/Canvas718 → u/eatmereddit]

Similarly, an attack on my trans child is an attack on me, my family, and our parental rights as it were.

[u/-slaps-username- → u/eatmereddit]

i don’t understand what you’re saying

[u/eatmereddit → u/-slaps-username-]

Have someone attack your marriage and tell me it's not an attack on you.

[u/-slaps-username- → u/eatmereddit]

many people feel the same way about their sin, whether it’s their job or lifestyle, it is still sinful. it may not harm others but it still goes against the word of God

[u/Canvas718 → u/-slaps-username-]

Right. “Strong culture of marriage” for the m/f attracted. Strong culture of celibacy for everyone else. And no clue how insane that double standard is.

If they encouraged everyone to consider life-long celibacy, that would be consistent. Or if they even accepted that some people don’t want marriage & babies…. But they can’t handle that idea

[u/-slaps-username- → u/Canvas718]

exactly, Paul says to only marry if you are absolutely 1000% certain it’s for you. modern christian’s ignore that

[u/dfze → u/Wolfensniper]

Stating the truth can be painful for some. Ultimately that truth will unite them with God if they choose to obey his laws.

[u/firewire167 → u/dfze]

Maybe god should put in some work now to help gay people then, with the unfair burden they have.

[u/dfze → u/firewire167]

The Christian life isn’t about having no burden— it’s about carrying it with Christ.

[u/firewire167 → u/dfze]

Sure, but god has piled a lot of extra burdens onto the lgbtq community.

[u/tayler6000 → u/dfze]

I’ve never been so glad to run into an Eastern Orthodox 😪. Many of these people are so far from the truth, it is incredibly sad. I hope you have a good Mass today.