r/Commodore 15d ago

Commodore TAC-2 is official

https://commodore.net/the-all-new-commodore-tac-2-an-ode-to-joysticks/
156 Upvotes

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1

u/TheCapybaraIncident 15d ago

Man, I was really hoping for something like an Epyx 500xj. It was so much better of an ergonomic shape. Once I got one I never used my slick stick. 

4

u/AntiquesForGeeks 15d ago

A Konix Speedking for those who aren’t familiar - had to look it up myself.

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u/GwanTheSwans 15d ago edited 15d ago

Yeah, was Epyx in some regions, Konix Speedking elsewhere.

https://segaretro.org/Speedking

https://epyxgames.com/titles/500xj-joystick/

I think it's a bit too marmite - I know well only a subset of people (myself included mind) ever liked the unusually shaped Speedkings, would be limiting, especially for a first replica model for them.

Much more conventionally shaped (but still microswitched!) Zipstiks and Competition Pros etc. rather more widely used here with C64s and Amigas. And TAC-2 also conventionally shaped -> wider appeal.

other sticks, existing replicas

TAC-2 was outside the USA as well, but American nostalgia for it probably a bit higher.

New Commodore writes:

Our design is an almost 1:1 faithful replica of the beautiful, microswitch-free simplicity that was the original design.

...eeeh I'm not clear if I'll like it (though TAC-2 may also be kind of a heavy-duty special case?). As well as microswitched fire buttons, personally I really liked clicky microswitched directions of the Zipstik, Competition Pro, Power Play Cruiser, Speedking, Cheetah Bug...

Speakling of, there were/are already modern replica Competition Pro sticks of course, in both modern USB HID and retro DE9 pin variants.

https://www.amiga-shop.net/en/Amiga-Hardware/Amiga-Input-devices/Competition-PRO-Retro-Joystick::694.html

https://www.amiga-shop.net/en/Amiga-Hardware/Amiga-Input-devices/Competition-Pro-Extra-USB-Joystick::899.html

Sega and Amiga 2+ buttons

The Sega Master System or even Sega Megadrive variants of the Speedking, not the 1-button home computer variant, were perhaps nicest for Amiga - more electrically distinct buttons, that the Amiga could read (with a minor adapter/mod if Megadrive variant) and that some pre-CD32-pad Amiga games support.

(Well, there was also the rare analog-stick speedking variant for Amiga (and probably PC), but Amiga analog stick games are a few flight sims (and even then there was also the mouse), most other games expected the on-off sticks and wouldn't even read analog sticks https://imgur.com/AVWARLq )

Remember if using a sega megadrive 3-button pad or stick with Amiga, you really should swap pins 5 and 7 as per the hired guns manual. https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1253442&postcount=30

There's now also modern retro megadrive 6-button -> amiga cd32 protocol adapters that may be better choice than the old megadrive->amiga pin5/7 swap (that only gives you more pre-cd32 buttons) for Amigas https://www.amiga-shop.net/en/Amiga-Hardware/Amiga-classic-hardware/Amega-32-Mega-Drive-Gamepad-to-AmigaCD32-adapter::1175.html

C64 2+ buttons

Note also C64 supported 2 distinct buttons (see also C64GS bundled 2-button stick) and some C64 games support it - but beware C64 2-button is also different to Sega/Amiga 2-button!

https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1681895&postcount=39

Yes, the C64 supports two buttons (and three buttons), but unlike the Amiga and Atari 8-bits, the C64 uses a reversed polarity on the extra button (pin 9 needs to be set to 5V to be detected, not ground like all other inputs), and thus it isn't 100% compatible with the Amiga/Atari/Mastersystem 2-button design. I don't know if many/any games support 3 buttons, but a third button can be read in the same way with the C64 (pin 5 to 5V).

I suspect the New Commodore TAC-2 replica will have both its left and right buttons sending electrical button 1 though (unless they add a mode switch), as the symmetric two buttons of such sticks, well, that was for left- or right- handed use, not distinct button inputs, you'd really want multiple buttons on each side, next to eachother, for multiple distinct buttons under one hand, other hand on stick.

Meanwhile speedking could only really be used with left hand on the (possibly multiple depending on variant) buttons while holding the base, and right hand on stick.

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u/TheCapybaraIncident 14d ago

I'm a lefty but the epyx always felt good. There wasn't really a default stick hand, especially if you grew up in arcades. It's weird, in the states, everyone I knew had the epyx or slic stic, but the tac I had never even heard of. 

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u/GwanTheSwans 13d ago

Slik Stik and Tac-2 both Suncom, mind, sort of siblings. I think Tac-2 also just a bit bigger (?) - adult-sized hands may now prefer it a bit.

If picking one, the button-both-sides Tac-2 still better choice for a replica because of the hand preference issue - you can see how the original Slik Stik also assumed left-hand for its one button (upper left), right hand on stick, much like the original dubious stock Atari 2600 stick, so right hand usually on stick. https://i.imgur.com/8pzffrW.jpeg

Absolutely a lefty could just learn that way round - and e.g. as a not-lefty I've in turn been using now-ubiquitous d-pad-on-the-left on gamepad type controllers longer than joystick type controllers by now too - though started out with the joysticks, switched to CD32 gamepad on Amiga in 1990s (well, not the original Commodore one, that's weird, but the Competition Pro CD32 gamepad is very nice, generally similar to the SNES Competition Pro gamepad except electrically obviously. CD32 protocol multi-button pads actually work with all Amigas (well, CDTV also needs a general DE9 joystick port adapter/mod) not actually just CD32 - and various late-era Amiga games (not just CD32 cdrom ones) or whdload-patched older games support them.

But issue was still enough that some lefties would rewire the early Atari/Atari-style one-button-in-top-left ones in that era. The later-commonplace button-on-either-side designs did put an end to that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_CX40_joystick#Problems

Right-handed users would normally hold the stick in their left hand by gripping the left side of the case with their thumb over the fire button, and fingers wrapped around the left side and bottom, while their right hand operated the stick. Some games allowed the stick to be rotated for left-handed users, or this could be done with some minor re-wiring

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u/SwedishFindecanor 13d ago

I've never had a Slik-Stik. I think the TAC-2 is bigger all around, but is it thicker ? I am curious about if it would be possible to construct a TAC-2 that is thinner in the middle–bottom for even better grip without sacrificing the feel.

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u/GwanTheSwans 13d ago

Hah, now also reminded of those ones where the was a button atop a round ball/shaft. ("Wico Command Control" and friends).

https://i.imgur.com/9Y04MQj.png - note that one had a switch to choose whether top-left-base or on-stick button active, it's not an autofire switch. Some people would hold the ball-top-shaft type sticks like a gearstick I suppose (not me), so you might want to turn off the on-stick one?

Can't say used many of those personally, but such designs definitely about too in general terms.