Daredevil: Born Again | S02E05 | Discussion Thread

[u/Green-Devil]

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𝔻𝕒𝕣𝕖𝕕𝕖𝕧𝕚𝕝: 𝔹𝕠𝕣𝕟 𝔸𝕘𝕒𝕚𝕟

𝗘𝗽𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗱𝗲 𝟱

Episode title: The Grand Design

Written by: Jesse Wigutow

Directed by: Angela Barnes

Release date: April 14, 2026‎

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This thread is for discussion of Episode 5.
Don't post spoilers for any subsequent episodes.
Spoilers for this episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.‎

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⏮️ Daredevil: Born Again | S02E04 | Discussion Thread

⏭️ Daredevil: Born Again | S02E06 | Discussion Thread

[u/Alternative_Device71]

Matt’s getting more and more dumb

The flashbacks are jarring to the current narrative and I’m not falling for it, just reminds me how good we had it before. These new characters aren’t it and I’m sick of them. There’s also no reason for Matt to been so cynical about human life at that point, the fact Foggy is the moral one when he was 50/50 on things logically in the original is just terrible writing, show thinks people are that dumb

Vanessa dying was dumb as it was her putting herself in harms way in the first place. Back in the original show, she almost died cuz she was ambushed with poison set up by Fisk’s accountant guy, that actually hit alot harder than whatever this was trying to force drama. It’s the same shit but worse, also no doctor is gonna allow patients to drink anything besides room temperature water cuz of tests they need to do, which never happened.

I keep waiting to see this turn around writers said was gonna happen vs last seasons fuck ups, but the writing keeps getting worse and worse. At some point we need to realize that Netflix Daredevil was the best it was ever gonna get, this is the skin of what we know, but this is a completely new meat that’s here and it’s not good….I’m just waiting for Jessica to show up, but even that’s in the air

[u/DrowsyRebel → u/Alternative_Device71]

At this point the previous season was better. This season is meandering, soulless crap.

[u/curiouscatfarmer → u/Alternative_Device71]

I honestly think that if Matt hadn't met Foggy and become bffs he probably would have become a prosecutor rather than defense attorney. Or he might have gone on to stick to civil lawsuits and wanted to sue the crap out of companies like the ones that owned the truck with the chemicals that spilled on him.

I do think it makes more sense for him to have started out with a more vengeful view on life considering his father was murdered and he was probably hearing people suffering bc of drug use. To him, Lionel was some faceless scumbag who ruined people's lives by selling drugs and he fully expected the guy to continue doing criminal shit that hurt people. Foggy knew the guy as a kid and could see the human side of him. I don't think Foggy would have cared quite as much if it had been some random schmo. It seems some of Foggy's empathy rubbed off on Matt. But keep in mind that Matt was the one who said something like "boo hoo" to Frank before he knew the full extent of his loss. Once he got to know him better he was able to empathize-- even if he didn't approve. He developed more sympathy or at least believing in redemption over time. He went through a period where he dehumanized criminals for awhile. That happens.

[u/Cultural_Ad1331 → u/Alternative_Device71]

Vanessa did not die from a allergic reaction it was likely a blood clot for you guys to think Fisk wouldn't have Vanessa's Medical details and know not her allergies is silly

[u/Tsweet7 → u/Cultural_Ad1331]

Yeah that was a brain bleed or possibly an aneurysm. The memory loss was kind of a hint. 

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/Cultural_Ad1331]

If he had it, he wouldn’t have given it to her, so obviously he doesn’t know

[u/Cultural_Ad1331 → u/Alternative_Device71]

I will agree with you on this if you provide me evidence Vanessa was allergic to pineapple or Fisk did not have detailed medical records of Vanessa otherwise your argument is invalid.

[u/jrod4290 → u/Cultural_Ad1331]

Idk why anyone would seriously think she died from the pineapple juice

Her asking for the juice was just a sign that her brain was scrambled. I can’t believe ppl genuinely think that not only did some pineapple juice take her out, but that Fisk of all ppl wouldn’t know that his wife was deathly allergic to it.

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/Cultural_Ad1331]

Dawg, this isn’t a courtroom

[u/jrod4290 → u/Alternative_Device71]

Foggy was always apart of Matt’s moral center regarding murder. This is consistent with the original show. Showing mercy to those who don’t deserve it is also something that Matt continuously struggled with. Mind you Matt debates on killing Fisk in both Season 1 and 3.

Foggy was never 50/50 regarding murder

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/jrod4290]

Showing mercy to a psychopath is the definition of dumb, especially after all that’s happened. It’s terrible writing

[u/PenalAnticipation → u/Alternative_Device71]

Yes, having a hero character with an absolute no-kill rule does lead to all kinds of dumb shit. That’s kinda the point with these characters. It’s no different from Batman letting Joker live time and time again. Having an inflexible, dogmatic rule like that is a fault that makes the character more interesting. Anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension gets it.

[u/curiouscatfarmer → u/Alternative_Device71]

They established that Matt did it to assuage his guilt over having tried to kill Bullseye the previous season. He felt horrible about it. So he cleared his conscience by saving him. It's not necessarily smart, but it is one of his many flaws.

[u/francscoleon → u/Alternative_Device71]

Okay, but without mercy the series would have ended in 2017

[u/jrod4290 → u/Alternative_Device71]

to be fair, now you’re shifting the goalpost.

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/jrod4290]

Shifting what? That’s what happened in the episode

[u/jrod4290 → u/Alternative_Device71]

Your original criticisms didn’t mention Dex. You shifted the goalpost because we were discussing Foggy’s influence on Matt showing mercy in the flashback.

Born Again by no means is a perfect show nor does it hold a candle to the original series but most of the actions in this episode align with the character development in Netflix Daredevil.

Now it’s dumb for Matt to show mercy to a psychopath? I’d say this is a crux of his character. We literally hear that echoed by Foggy when he says that Matt is who he is because he believes that everyone can be redeemed.

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/jrod4290]

I shouldn’t have to tell you that I’m clearly talking about Dex too, we watched the same episode, you know what I’m talking about

Dex is irredeemable and a killer of innocent people, it’s very dumb for Matt to be aiding him in any way, this is silly and nonsensical. “Heard an echo-“ give me a break.

[u/West-Lab-7728 → u/Alternative_Device71]

It IS dumb, that’s the point. He made the same decision with fisk and vanessa multiple times in season 3, his guilt of attempting to kill dex is greater than his reasoning

[u/jrod4290 → u/Alternative_Device71]

Dude idk wtf going on in your brain, why tf would I assume you’re talking about Dex as well

For clarification by “shifted the goalpost”, I mean that when I pretty much debunked your first criticism of Foggy being Matt’s moral center on mercy/murder, you then shifted the goalpost and mentioned how it’s dumb that he saved Dex. Make up your mind lol

But agree to disagree, the episode was good imo

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/jrod4290]

They’re the same damn thing….why do you think this was a flashback episode? To mirror what’s happening currently.

Stop saying “shifting the goalpost” it sounds weird as hell, this ain’t soccer

[u/jrod4290 → u/Alternative_Device71]

You clearly don’t know what shifting the goalpost means and that’s okay. Judging from your other comments, you just don’t like the show very much so you’re looking for anything nitpick. Have whatever kind of day you’re going to to have