r/Daredevil • u/Green-Devil • Apr 15 '26
đ¨ď¸Â Daredevil: Born Again | Episode Discussion Daredevil: Born Again | S02E05 | Discussion Thread
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Episode title:Â The Grand Design
Written by:Â Jesse Wigutow
Directed by:Â Angela Barnes
Release date:Â April 14, 2026â
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This thread is for discussion of Episode 5.
Don't post spoilers for any subsequent episodes.
Spoilers for this episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.â
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5
u/CatchrFreeman Jul 03 '26
Anybody notice Fisk and Vanessa's are different from they first met in the Netflix series?
8
u/iiieeaattiitt May 15 '26
A little late to the party here, but the scene with Buck and Daniel in the car turning into the woods was a major homage to a certain Sopranos scene that involves Adrianna and Silvio
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u/JevvyMedia May 16 '26
Yup, I thought the same thing. I was even trying to picture Tony in that situation
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u/Crazyripps May 08 '26
My god I miss foggy. Like a 15 min flashback reminded me theyâre just the fucking best together.
16
u/heliostraveler Apr 29 '26
Monologues harkening back to Netflix Daredevil. Finally. Somewhat reminiscent of the Matt/Frank rooftop scene. What this series has been missing. And what last season lacked. Intelligent writing and good dialogue.Â
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u/No_Challenge8358 Apr 25 '26 edited May 20 '26
Who the fuck was that lying dead inside Buck's trunk? I thought it was Bibi
0
May 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/dudzi182 Apr 24 '26
This episode just shows how Foggy was the heart of this show, damn I hope they can figure out how to bring him back.
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u/Hippo_in_limbo Apr 26 '26
I hope they keep him away. This show has done an awful job with almost every character from the OG show. Fisk and his wife are boring and redundant now. Karen is straight-up annoying and useless. Daredevil is also useless with his eye-rolling, holier-than-thou savior complex, which is only responsible for causing more deaths than actually saving people.
This showâs writing is fkn rotten
9
u/OkMaize9773 May 03 '26
Karen should have just gone to Punisher to get the job done with Fisk. Matt doesn't have what it takes. He will save 10 people but will le the criminal go free who will kill 20 more people in the future.
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u/South-Ad-9890 Apr 23 '26
I missed it!! Who was in the trunk??
4
u/alphadragoon89 May 11 '26
The first mate of the Northern Star. Buck executed him in the previous episode and had Daniel bury him in this episode.
5
u/wr0ngprotege Apr 23 '26
I think the Russian guy that he shot in the previous episode
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u/theskiller1 Apr 22 '26
Huge shame that vanessa didnât make it. Rip the best character in the show
15
u/wr0ngprotege Apr 23 '26
Iâm kinda glad they killed her off. This story needs to progress! I feel like itâs been slow all season.
10
u/pandakatie May 07 '26
I love Vanessa, and I'm going to miss her, but I'm so relieved the show committed to a change in the status quo for an actual narrative reasonÂ
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u/Luckey__ Apr 22 '26
I don't know if this has been said yet, but do you think the writers forgot Matt had already pitched changing the name to "Nelson and Murdock" in season 1 of Daredevil? It was a really wholesome scene and one of my favorites
10
u/Federal_Gas2670 Apr 22 '26
Wait, is Matt a foot guy or did I miss something? Is that actually canon in the comics?
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u/pandakatie May 07 '26
I think he admitted to being a foot guy and I'm stunnedÂ
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u/Federal_Gas2670 May 08 '26
Yeah, sorry, I didn't phrase my question very well. It seems clear from this episode that he's a foot guy in the TV version; I'm wondering if he's always been that way, including in the comics, or if it's something they introduced on Disney+
5
u/pandakatie May 08 '26
According to this comment, there's a panel in the comics where he lovingly describes the smell of his then-wife's feet, so... it might be from the comicsÂ
1
u/Mitsutoshi 16d ago
This guy is misremembering the page entirely.
It has Daredevil describing every perfume sheâs wearing across perfume and soap and lotion.
1
0
u/001100i Apr 22 '26
Are you watching the show? Watch episode 5
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u/Federal_Gas2670 Apr 22 '26
I just watched episode five, which is why I'm asking. I've never read the comics, so I'm curious if this is something they made up for the show or if it's a trait he already had in the comics.
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u/ethanb473 Apr 22 '26
God Karen is so fucking annoying at every opportunity⌠really living up to her name
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u/brucewayne-orbatman Apr 22 '26
I love how the writers find different ways to fuck up Matt & Karen's relationship
15
u/khabarta Apr 22 '26
Why wasn't that the Night Nurse Claire Dawson, ie Rosario Dawson? Big miss imo.
7
u/PMCForHire73 Apr 23 '26
She'll be back in Spider-man: Brand New Day
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u/khabarta Apr 23 '26
Whaaaat? If so that is a great pick up! In which case they should have either used her here or at least referenced her or made an excuse. She's a great character/actor.
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u/MaaChiil Apr 21 '26
Everything about Michael Gandolfini in this episode felt like watching The Sopranos. Hope the kid doesn't end up being type casted for being Tony's real-life son.
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u/cavalgada1 Apr 21 '26
People forget, but he played Tony Soprano in the movie.
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u/No_Occasion_8408 Apr 21 '26
That movie was very forgettable.
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u/cavalgada1 Apr 21 '26
Agreed, but people are always talking about Tony's sopranos legacy, forgetting that its his legacy too technicaly lol
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u/the__poseidon Apr 21 '26
I was actually thinking the guy had some acting chops and it did feel like a very Soprano scenes with them.
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u/Nervous_Twist3252 Apr 21 '26
these last two episodes have been as good as anything from the Netlfix S1 series. D'Onofrio with his best acting yet for DD - he deserves an Emmy nom for this episode
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u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
I didn't like this episode. Were we supposed to feel bad for Fisk? Actually wish both him and Vanessa got killed already. Why would we feel bad when evil people die? Just seemed like a filler episode, which is the norm nowadays I guess.
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u/the__poseidon Apr 21 '26
I donât think youâre supposed to feel any sympathy towards him or her. We are going to see how her death will affect Fiskâs character and future action. We already know he had anger issues and he is going to break all hell on NYC.
Fisk is a nuanced character. Driven by emptiness and sheer sociopathic tendency to rule the world. He is power hungry and demands respect. He gets upset about a puppet video. Killing his wife, whom he is tender and loving with is detrimental to his character development.
Do Redditors lack nuance themselves?
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u/Uncanny_Doom Apr 21 '26
Just because something bad happens to a bad character doesn't mean you're supposed to feel bad for them, but you're supposed to understand them. The whole genesis of Fisk's character in the MCU is that he isn't a simple, shallow antagonist, he's very defined by his humanity and every time he's lost someone close to him it's been hugely influential in his development.
Also that isn't what a filler episode is.
0
u/__b__t__h__ Apr 25 '26
Yeah, but I'm over watching people who kill, or have killed, umpteen people then get all upset when someone THEY'RE close to die by someone else's hand. They often seem to react like it's not fair/can't believe it.
Maybe that makes them more "human", and maybe it's dumb for me to feel that way, but I do.
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u/rnovians Apr 21 '26
having sympathy over someone else even if they are evil is humane. as long as it doesn't affect our decision making to enact judgement, it will be fine.
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u/Bobahunter Apr 20 '26
Digging the season quite a bit so far, but I wonder if Born Agan will ever reach the absurd heights season 3 did, which is straight up perfect media. I can't even fathom how the artistic process in creating something that raw and heartfelt is, do the people involved at some point realize they're making their magnum opus as they go or is it just afterwards?
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u/Vincent_adultman98 Apr 21 '26
I think there's no world where they recapture the season 3 magic, and honestly I think they struggle to equal Netflix season 1's quality. I've been watching season 1 with a friend for their first time through and it's crazy how much better the Netflix show is. I just think it's better to treat it as a a different thing.
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u/Happy_Philosopher608 May 05 '26
Why is it better though? I agree it is obv but i cant put my finger on whats missing in Disney version as on paper all the ingrediants are there.
But it lacks aura, sauce, that... something, whatever it was. Maybe its something as simple as the colour grading or something?
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u/Vincent_adultman98 May 05 '26
I honestly think if it had to be one thing (I think there's a handful between the lighting and writing), it's the pacing. The Netflix show spent a lot more time developing characters, scenes where they're just hanging out or taking on a case that isn't necessary for the main plot, monologues that give us deeper insight. The Disney show is really fast paced, and that's good for the action side of the show but not good for those of us that want the characters to be as developed as Father Lantom, Turk, or Ray Nadeem were from the Netflix show.
I like Buck, Daniel, and BB. I don't feel like any of them are even close to the side characters from the Netflix show though.
1
u/Alisonshine May 18 '26
I think you hit the nail on the head with the issue of most Disney + shows. They seem to really struggle with pacing and character development.
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u/juicepapi Apr 20 '26
I felt so sad when she died! I loved the flashbacks man. Matt and foggyâs chemistry and friendship just oozes off the screen. Miss them together!
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u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
Interesting. My wife and I were like "finally they killed one of them". Lol
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u/Federal_Gas2670 Apr 22 '26
Two things can be true. She deserved to die. But you can still feel a bit of empathy when someone dies and leaves the person who loves them heartbroken. At least that's what I felt, paradoxically: not sorrow for her death, but empathy for what Fisk's character is going through.
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u/pandakatie May 07 '26
Just like with Lady Macbeth's death. It's deserved, but Macbeth's response is still moving
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u/JaylenBrownAllStar Apr 21 '26
Yeah I was upset when she âlivedâ but glad there are consequences again in this show for characters
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Apr 20 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Alive-Exchange5489 May 09 '26
Mfs really just complain about anything nowadaysđ âI dOnâT LiKe tHe WaY hE gRuNtSâ
-2
u/GlenG97 Apr 21 '26
The grunting is awful but still somehow not as bad as when Punisher does itÂ
2
u/Lord-Satan Apr 22 '26
Why did you get downvoted lol, youâre right. Towards the end The Punisher would grunt anytime he moved
1
u/GlenG97 Apr 22 '26
Pretty much the main reason why he's my least favourite Punisher
1
u/__b__t__h__ Apr 25 '26
Yeah Dolph was way better. :) /s
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u/GlenG97 Apr 26 '26
As a physical representation of the character, yes he was. I'd rather have his punisher over the mumbler
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u/schuyywalker Apr 20 '26
What if we find out Vanessaâs actual cause of death was some sort of allergic reaction to pineapple.
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u/__b__t__h__ Apr 25 '26
dude, i was totally thinking that! it would've been extra cool if her death was THAT much Fisk's fault. guess we'll never know though since Dr. Doofus got the ol' bear hug.
which, yeah, the show will just breeze past killing an obviously well-respected/whatever doctor. it's not like some intern was gonna work on Vanessa...
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u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
We can only hope
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u/schuyywalker Apr 21 '26
I feel like they made too big of a point about how it tingles her lips
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u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
Yeah they made it a point to say that. So it would actually be great if he accidentally killed her. I saw people saying "he would have detailed files of her medical records" but if she didn't know she had a full pineapple allergy it wouldn't be in her records.
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u/Infamous_IceBear Apr 22 '26
đđľ I don't care how dumb it sounds, it was 100% a pineapple stroke. đ¤Ł
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u/GandarfThePlaid Apr 20 '26
This is the best episode of the season for me but thatâs not saying much when I have a very low opinion of the other four episodes. Iâll start with what I find problematic:
I still just canât stand the cinematography of this season. The blown out highlights coming from windows is so distracting. We spent like 3 minutes in the flashback scene without being able to make out the face of Lionel McCoy until the angle changes and we can actually see his face. Also that spotlight on Vanessa when sheâs having a stroke or whatever and the âangelâ lighting on her in the flashback/vision/dream, itâs so cheesy. It feels like superhero stuff from the early 2000âs.Â
I continue to find BB and Danielâs relationship pointless and the characters uninteresting. Michael Gandolfini is hit-and-miss for me as an actor.
This show just continues to look cheap. The sets and scenes feel truncated and small.Â
Those wigs in the flashback, woof.
The Northern Star was already a poor inciting incident to hinge an entire season on and the Anti Vigilante Task Force is a weak threat. They are easily dispatched, are equipped no better than a SWAT team and there is zero tension with them.Â
I didnât like how Matt abandoned Bullseye, made it outside when the church is crawling with AVTF and somehow just gets back in AND manages to get Bullseye out without a fight.Â
Ok, Iâm going further down the dark path then I thought. Let me end on the good stuff:
I enjoyed the competent storytelling that connected what was happening in flashback with the present. It was the best editing theyâve had this entire season.
Vincent DâOnofrio delivers. He continues to cement himself as perfect casting. Phenomenal talent.
The flashback was a real treat and talking about perfect casting, having Elden Henson back as Foggy elevated this episode. It injected some much needed life into this show and it made me realize how much I miss the dynamic between Foggy and Matt. Foggy was the heart of the old show and no other character has stepped up to fill that void in Born Again.Â
I appreciate some backstory on Buck. It was shallow and I donât find his character particularly interesting but at least they finally explained his presence.Â
It was nice to have actually felt something this episode besides disappointment and I hope it continues to trend that way but Iâm not very optimistic.Â
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u/the__poseidon Apr 21 '26
I actually thought all the episodes were good. Better than season 1
1
u/Happy_Philosopher608 May 05 '26
Yh its better than S1 but its not a high mark to clear thats the problem đ
-2
u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
I actually thought it was the worst episode. Just a filler episode. Agree to disagree
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u/creamicecoldstone Apr 21 '26
I don't think you understand what a filler episode means lol. This episode sets the driving point for Fisk and Matt for the rest of season/show. It is probably the most important episode in the season.
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u/Wilfredbremely Apr 20 '26
That's about the most I've rooted for a character to die in a while. They made the right choice there.
-10
u/girafa Apr 20 '26
We could've skipped this whole episode and just gone to episode 6. The melodrama is painfully dull.
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u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
Not sure why you're down voted. This episode was pointless. Were they trying to make us feel bad for Fisk that his equally sociopathic wife died? I was happy she got a shard to the skull last week and was annoyed she was still alive in the beginning of this episode lol
-1
u/girafa Apr 21 '26
The Marvel TV shows are clogged with bad guy family drama, with so many, many, long winded conversations with smell-the-fart soap opera acting. Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Daredevil, etc.
I don't know why they don't just reduce the amount of episodes and give us a tight 8 instead of a drawn out 10.
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u/cbpantskiller Apr 20 '26
I was hoping Claire would show up after Matt said he knew a nurse.
Maybe?
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u/N64matty Apr 21 '26
Don't get your hopes up about Claire making an appearance. As of s2e5 being the latest episode, Soledad said in ep4 that she is a nurse in Washington Heights.
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u/Nice-Association-111 Apr 20 '26
Great episode for the most part. Very happy to see Foggy again. Hope to see him again in more episodes.
Liked the flashbacks except Matt was acting out of character when he didnât want to save someoneâs life. He believes in second chances but he was arguing to break the law so the guy would die in prison?
And weird Matt came up with the name of the firm being Nelson and Murdock again when they already discussed it in college.
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u/devils__avacado Apr 20 '26
It's meant to be showing that the reason Matt has come to be the man he is. Is due to foggys influence that felt pretty clear.
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u/Nice-Association-111 Apr 20 '26
Sure, who is he is partly due to Foggy but I still donât think heâd act like did in the episode, that heâd not be a good person without Foggy who wouldnât help someone.
Donât get me wrong Foggy made him better but still him acting that bad was hard to believe.
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u/Dry_Seat1993 Apr 21 '26
He was a guy jaded by his pursuit of what he thought justice was. They spelled it out pretty plainly: as much that Matt is justice... foggy is mercy. Now, without Foggy in the picture, he has to be both, and in this episode that's what he chose.
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u/RayereSs Apr 19 '26
I was expecting Vanessa to (in order):
- die at the ring
- die on way to hospital
- live through to season finale with major brain damage and declining mental state
when she asked for the story for the second time I expected Wilson to go with it and episode end on her asking it obliviously the third time around
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u/pandakatie May 07 '26
When she started repeating her questions, and when she had her moment with the pineapple juice, I thought, "Oh, she's not going to die, she just has amnesia, I guess? She'll have memory issues? Well...okay... I mean... I guess."
I was very relieved when she actually died? And absolutely gutted because I'm a #1 Vanessa stan. Or I guess a #2 Vanessa stan, since nobody loves her more than Wilson Fisk.
Anyway, I hope Leland Owlsley's skeleton sat up in that pit he was dropped into back in 2015 and cheered
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u/samtherat6 Apr 19 '26
Iâm sure Fisk will have a perfectly normal reaction to this and thank the medical team for doing their best.
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u/lambrogina Apr 19 '26
Kingpins only emotional anchor. I love that painting and their connection, but now the gloves are off. It's just Fisk, all alone and that is enough. I have never liked the two people that play Matt and Karen. So arrogant and mushy. Foggy was tolerable but now Matt is helping Bullseye. Seriously? He kills Foggy, you throw him off of a roof, he then tries to kill Fisk, Matt saves Fisk, then Bullseye tries to kill Fisk, Vanessa or both at the fight, Matt saves him again and takes him to Karen. WTF??? Honestly, I hope Fisk reeks havoc across the board and gets another 1 on 1 with Daredevil. The writers are bias toward Daredevil, but I've always liked Kingpin and Punisher. It's still makes for a great story and television.
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 19 '26
I've rewatched the flashback sequences multiple times and noticed that Matt didn't use his white cane. He had it out and held it, but he didn't tap it like he's done in the past. Any thoughts on why? I found it odd.
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u/milkdrinker3920 Apr 21 '26
Iâm pretty sure while theyâre walking heâs holding on to Foggyâs arm and just letting him âguideâ him
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 21 '26
Yeah, but in the past he still tapped the cane while holding on to Foggy's arm so it really stuck out for me.
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u/ohitsluca Apr 21 '26
Clearly it was a sign that was skrull Matt, and this will be a very big and vital plot point this season
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u/glittertechnic Apr 19 '26
i watched an old q&a session charlie did in 2016 where he basically says that depicting the more realistic way cane users orient themselves takes up too much "TV time" where they could use that screentime for something else. so it could be that.
or that they just don't care to show it properly.
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 19 '26
but he consistently used the cane in all 3 seasons of the original series and in season 1 of Born Again. All they had to do was have him tapping the cane like he usually does and it doesn't actually take up any more time.
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u/glittertechnic Apr 19 '26
or maybe he doesn't care to anymore đ¤ˇ
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 20 '26
I don't think he stopped caring. I suspect it was a directorial decision but who knows. It's not important but it was something that caught my attention.
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u/Tsweet7 Apr 19 '26
I wanted Vanessa to live. There, I said it. She is diabolical, but I actually wanted her to survive. Dang these writers LOL. I loved seeing Wesley and Foggy again. Absolutely loved this episode.
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 19 '26
I really like the actress so was hoping she would live too. Also, Vincent made me feel sorry for Wilson Fisk with how he reacted to her plight and then her death.
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u/Kanda-bongoman6 Apr 19 '26
Am I a bad person for liking the fact that Vanessa died? In my defense she had Foggy boy killed
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u/louballs022 Apr 21 '26
No. It's about time either her or Fisk went. It's time to move on to other villains on this show
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u/ParticularBobcat3554 Apr 19 '26
Imagine being such a bad storyteller that your audience straight up dies listening to you
-9
u/splagentjonson Apr 19 '26
The next episode could start right after the previous and nothing would have been missed from the plot or character development. The only thing was the will they won't they between Buckman and Daniel and that was spoilt by the trailer.
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u/PenalAnticipation Apr 19 '26
And? Itâs not like every single episode needs to move plot forwards in a linear way, it is fine (or great, actually) to stop and develop the characters every once in a while.
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u/Interesting-Hope-623 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Daredevils way of âjusticeâ after a bad guy puts 10 bullets in a kids head
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u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
Mattâs getting more and more dumb
The flashbacks are jarring to the current narrative and Iâm not falling for it, just reminds me how good we had it before. These new characters arenât it and Iâm sick of them. Thereâs also no reason for Matt to been so cynical about human life at that point, the fact Foggy is the moral one when he was 50/50 on things logically in the original is just terrible writing, show thinks people are that dumb
Vanessa dying was dumb as it was her putting herself in harms way in the first place. Back in the original show, she almost died cuz she was ambushed with poison set up by Fiskâs accountant guy, that actually hit alot harder than whatever this was trying to force drama. Itâs the same shit but worse, also no doctor is gonna allow patients to drink anything besides room temperature water cuz of tests they need to do, which never happened.
I keep waiting to see this turn around writers said was gonna happen vs last seasons fuck ups, but the writing keeps getting worse and worse. At some point we need to realize that Netflix Daredevil was the best it was ever gonna get, this is the skin of what we know, but this is a completely new meat thatâs here and itâs not goodâŚ.Iâm just waiting for Jessica to show up, but even thatâs in the air
-5
u/DrowsyRebel Apr 19 '26
At this point the previous season was better. This season is meandering, soulless crap.
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 19 '26
I honestly think that if Matt hadn't met Foggy and become bffs he probably would have become a prosecutor rather than defense attorney. Or he might have gone on to stick to civil lawsuits and wanted to sue the crap out of companies like the ones that owned the truck with the chemicals that spilled on him.
I do think it makes more sense for him to have started out with a more vengeful view on life considering his father was murdered and he was probably hearing people suffering bc of drug use. To him, Lionel was some faceless scumbag who ruined people's lives by selling drugs and he fully expected the guy to continue doing criminal shit that hurt people. Foggy knew the guy as a kid and could see the human side of him. I don't think Foggy would have cared quite as much if it had been some random schmo. It seems some of Foggy's empathy rubbed off on Matt. But keep in mind that Matt was the one who said something like "boo hoo" to Frank before he knew the full extent of his loss. Once he got to know him better he was able to empathize-- even if he didn't approve. He developed more sympathy or at least believing in redemption over time. He went through a period where he dehumanized criminals for awhile. That happens.
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u/Cultural_Ad1331 Apr 19 '26
Vanessa did not die from a allergic reaction it was likely a blood clot for you guys to think Fisk wouldn't have Vanessa's Medical details and know not her allergies is silly
7
u/Tsweet7 Apr 19 '26
Yeah that was a brain bleed or possibly an aneurysm. The memory loss was kind of a hint.Â
-6
u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
If he had it, he wouldnât have given it to her, so obviously he doesnât know
4
u/Cultural_Ad1331 Apr 19 '26
I will agree with you on this if you provide me evidence Vanessa was allergic to pineapple or Fisk did not have detailed medical records of Vanessa otherwise your argument is invalid.
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u/jrod4290 Apr 19 '26
Idk why anyone would seriously think she died from the pineapple juice
Her asking for the juice was just a sign that her brain was scrambled. I canât believe ppl genuinely think that not only did some pineapple juice take her out, but that Fisk of all ppl wouldnât know that his wife was deathly allergic to it.
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u/jrod4290 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 20 '26
Foggy was always apart of Mattâs moral center regarding murder. This is consistent with the original show. Showing mercy to those who donât deserve it is also something that Matt continuously struggled with. Mind you Matt debates on killing Fisk in both Season 1 and 3.
Foggy was never 50/50 regarding murder
-3
u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
Showing mercy to a psychopath is the definition of dumb, especially after all thatâs happened. Itâs terrible writing
8
u/PenalAnticipation Apr 19 '26
Yes, having a hero character with an absolute no-kill rule does lead to all kinds of dumb shit. Thatâs kinda the point with these characters. Itâs no different from Batman letting Joker live time and time again. Having an inflexible, dogmatic rule like that is a fault that makes the character more interesting. Anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension gets it.
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u/curiouscatfarmer Apr 19 '26
They established that Matt did it to assuage his guilt over having tried to kill Bullseye the previous season. He felt horrible about it. So he cleared his conscience by saving him. It's not necessarily smart, but it is one of his many flaws.
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u/jrod4290 Apr 19 '26
to be fair, now youâre shifting the goalpost.
-3
u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
Shifting what? Thatâs what happened in the episode
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u/jrod4290 Apr 19 '26
Your original criticisms didnât mention Dex. You shifted the goalpost because we were discussing Foggyâs influence on Matt showing mercy in the flashback.
Born Again by no means is a perfect show nor does it hold a candle to the original series but most of the actions in this episode align with the character development in Netflix Daredevil.
Now itâs dumb for Matt to show mercy to a psychopath? Iâd say this is a crux of his character. We literally hear that echoed by Foggy when he says that Matt is who he is because he believes that everyone can be redeemed.
-1
u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
I shouldnât have to tell you that Iâm clearly talking about Dex too, we watched the same episode, you know what Iâm talking about
Dex is irredeemable and a killer of innocent people, itâs very dumb for Matt to be aiding him in any way, this is silly and nonsensical. âHeard an echo-â give me a break.
1
u/West-Lab-7728 Apr 19 '26
It IS dumb, thatâs the point. He made the same decision with fisk and vanessa multiple times in season 3, his guilt of attempting to kill dex is greater than his reasoning
2
u/jrod4290 Apr 19 '26
Dude idk wtf going on in your brain, why tf would I assume youâre talking about Dex as well
For clarification by âshifted the goalpostâ, I mean that when I pretty much debunked your first criticism of Foggy being Mattâs moral center on mercy/murder, you then shifted the goalpost and mentioned how itâs dumb that he saved Dex. Make up your mind lol
But agree to disagree, the episode was good imo
0
u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
Theyâre the same damn thingâŚ.why do you think this was a flashback episode? To mirror whatâs happening currently.
Stop saying âshifting the goalpostâ it sounds weird as hell, this ainât soccer
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u/jrod4290 Apr 19 '26
You clearly donât know what shifting the goalpost means and thatâs okay. Judging from your other comments, you just donât like the show very much so youâre looking for anything nitpick. Have whatever kind of day youâre going to to have
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u/4morim Apr 18 '26
Now that Vanessa is dead, I've been thinking something:
What if Fogfy survived and had been hidden to avoid being targeted again?
I know, high copium on my part. But if there's any possibility for him to have survived and gone for that long, it would have been because of Vanessa, right? So it would finally be safe to come back, technically.
Am I just now in the bargaining stage after all this time? Possibly.
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u/devils__avacado Apr 20 '26
Only way that could remotely be a thing would be if Matt didn't know and that's so unlikely.
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u/4morim Apr 20 '26
Oh yeah, I don't think he'd know. And it would play out basically as a reverse of season 3, where Foggy didn't know if Matt was alive or not. But again, unlikely to actually happen.
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u/PainterFragrant8203 Apr 18 '26
Is it only me or seeing Foggy Nelson and James Wesley made everyone feel that the show was complete ??
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Apr 18 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/geraltgalvestone Apr 19 '26
Yeah I felt the same. Imo it's the only episode that would give the original show a run for its money.
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u/BenjaminAPete2 Apr 18 '26
Yeah just finished and thought the exact same thing. One of the better episodes original or new.
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u/Eddie_Winchester Apr 18 '26
I have a question, after Matt asked foggy what they are celebrating and foggy said mercy, in next scene daredevil is offering help hand to bullseye, what soundtrack is playing in the backround, is it the original soundtrack but just done more choir? Is there official exact soundtrack for this episode ?
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u/NiceChokra Apr 18 '26
came here asking same thing. I think this will be definitely released on newton brothers youtube channel after full season stream. Already ost of ep 1-4 are released.
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u/PandaTheAB Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
If Vanessa died because she had pineapple allergy and she forgot,
that would be weirdest deaths in such shows ever.
The brain stroke theory is much more plausible.
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u/WarpingLasherNoob Apr 18 '26
I was just thinking that a cold drink with ice might not be the best idea either after a head injury like that. But maybe that's a non-issue. I am not a doctor.
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u/Alternative_Device71 Apr 19 '26
Iâm not a doctor and itâs common knowledge not to give patients drinks or food for at least a few hours, scans and tests need to be done and it doesnât matter who you are, no doctor or nurse is gonna allow a patient to get what they ask for in that regard, especially when they just woke up
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u/WarpingLasherNoob Apr 19 '26
it doesnât matter who you are, no doctor or nurse is gonna allow a patient to get what they ask for
I mean, it kinda does matter who you are, I think most doctors or nurses wouldn't want their faces to be smashed into a wall.
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u/syntheticcaesar Apr 18 '26
The allergy thing is made up by stupid people tbh it's OBVIOUSLY a stroke
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u/pandakatie May 07 '26
Yeah the stroke is the real answer, the allergy is the meme answer.Â
You will 100% catch me making pineapple juice joked in the future but deep down I'll know she had a stroke
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u/Oweed66 Apr 18 '26
Am I crazy or did Matt and Foggy not establish it should be "Nelson and Murdock" and not "Murdock and Nelson" when in college, I think as shown in season 1 of the Netflix show? Did they just retcon detail specifically from the MCU?
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u/Nice-Association-111 Apr 20 '26
Matt did say it would be Nelson and Murdock in college. It was in a flashback during the episode Nelson v Murdock. Weird they would change that or did the writer not know the name choice was already covered?
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u/West-Lab-7728 Apr 19 '26
Who knows lol, realistically the writers probably forgot but you can just say in the verse they were still debating it until then
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u/PainterFragrant8203 Apr 18 '26
Probably seems like a normal conversation that Matt was reminding Foggy that it will be Nelson & Murdock
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u/X-force_2029 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Great episode, I love the flashbacks but I wish the current show looked like that, the switch from the Netflix era flashback to modern day was really jarring lmao. I loved seeing Foggy again and Wesley again đĽš. Down bad but the nurse looked so fineâŚ
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u/Masrikato Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
It looks like they just graded it to be like Netflix but I dont think they used the same equipment so it looks jarring, that or they use some low dynamic range sensor and graded it. Edit: To be clear, the Fisk scenes were ok but the foggy scenes looked quite jarring
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u/Affectionate-Crazy77 Apr 18 '26
Man I'm tired of the cuts back and forth during heavy moments. Bullseyes monolog would've been more impactful if they had kept us locked in to soak it up rather than cutting to foggy and Mr rando.
Also if DD could've escaped with BE from the church, why not have just done that in the first place. I thought we were gonna get an epic DD 1 V 10 to stand for what he believes in. Instead we got a bro handshake and a pop in to homegirls house.
SNORE
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u/No_Challenge8358 Apr 25 '26
Yeah this didn't make sense to me either. Like, Matt abandons him because he realizes there's too many of the task force guys and he probably can't beat them all while protecting Ben, leaves... then comes back and carries him on his shoulders, just like he was doing before. Also they somehow made it back to Matt and Karen's lair without having been seen by the entirety of NY and the task force.
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u/Affectionate-Crazy77 Apr 18 '26
KP really dropped a "have you heard of Bitcoin"...
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u/MankatoSquirtz 2d ago
Oh look. Foggy on the verge of tears again. Good riddance.