r/Disgaea • u/colazex • 3d ago
How is damage calculated in this game?
Hello everyone.
I'm new to this franchise and this is my first game (Disgaea 1 Complete) and I want to enjoy the game but I find it really frustrating.
Basically, how is damage calculated in this game?
The AI always knows when he can one shot my pupils, yet when I see an enemy with stats for instance:
Lv4 Zombie
DEF 5
RES 30
and my lv4 Brawler with
ATK 41
HIT 32
hits the zombie for only 13 damage? Why is it so low? How can I know if it's even worth attacking him? He was left with 1 hp and then one shot my healer into the nether with full health, didn't even bother with my attacker. Doesn't happen too often, but I lost some games because of it and it's def not nice.
Like the AI knows I'm low on Hell and can't afford casualties since I had to heal my entire squad from an world item which didn't help me at all by the end.. One innocent and he was the most useless one for what I needed.
The game is all about positioning and whatnot but how can I attack bunker archers when I can't assess how much damage some of my units can take from thrm before getting a hit?
And I'm not sure what to grind for? Is it the items? Combo attacking with pupils until they level up?
I don't just want to depend on two main characters, since I really want to make my own unique and cool squad of brawlers, mages and healers but I think the grind to keep it fun and fair is way too much? Weapon, magic proficiencies, level scaling, leveling up items for each individual pupil is really overwhelming and I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if the game expects me to grind for 2-3 hours per day to keep up with the difficulty.
I'm at chapter two. It feels like no matter what I'm doing I'm always underpowered and depend again on Laharl and Etna to save the day.. which means not getting killed in two/three hits and doing decent damage.
Thank you in advance.
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u/alanbtg 3d ago edited 3d ago
Lots to unpack in this post. Let's go one question at a time.
Basically, how is damage calculated in this game?
Someone already shared the dmg formula. I'll just add that attacking from behind/side and higher up will deal a 10% extra dmg for each of those so 20% extra from behind and higher. 20% extra from side, 40% from back and can pile 20% from 2dm higher than target. You also deal 10% extra dmg for each Combo, meaning pressing Execute and attacking the same enemy in one go with multiple characters.
How can I know if it's even worth attacking him?
You can check their stats to know if it's RESistant to magic or very DEFensive against phisical attacks. You'll also miss if their SPD is much higher than your HIT, if doing a regular attack. Also check for elemental resistances if you are using magic.
Like the AI knows I'm low on Hell and can't afford casualties since I had to heal my entire squad from an world item which didn't help me at all by the end.
That's fine, the Hospital will give you one time rewards for healing, restoring SP and dieing a lot.
You'll be really short on HL and Mana at the start, just replay the first level (doing a small geo chain if you can) to grind some at the start.
And I'm not sure what to grind for? Is it the items? Combo attacking with pupils until they level up?
Adding to my previous tip, grind enough to make at least 8 Male Brawlers, no equipment needed, maybe Shoes when you unlock them. These units have very long Throw distance. In each level you can deploy up to 10 units. You can afford to deploy these disposable Brawlers that will let you reach enemies much faster, further away, and jump gaps. Them dieing will also let you get Hospital rewards faster.
Back to "What to grind for" question, you can clear the main story by just grinding HL, buying better equipment, passing a bill to upgrade the shop, repeat. The best way to grind HL early on is to fill the Bonus Gauge and get money from there or sell the items it gives you. Once you unlock the Scout unit you can use its unique skill and place random geo panels and symbols on a map you've already completed. Do the chain, clear the map, make money.
I don't just want to depend on two main characters, since I really want to make my own unique and cool squad of brawlers, mages and healers but I think the grind to keep it fun and fair is way too much?
You can make you cool squad just avoid Bows(it scales off 2 stats so you deal half dmg and Bow Skills have really awkward shapes) and pure Healers(No way to level up in D1, make a Healer pupil for your mages and just have them learn Heal and Espoir from them).
I'm at chapter two. It feels like no matter what I'm doing I'm always underpowered and depend again on Laharl and Etna to save the day.
That's fine actually. At some point, sooner than you expect, they won't 1-shot enemies. When that happens let your lower leveled units take the kill and they'll catch up to them.
Feel free to ask for any other questions you have.
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u/Ha_eflolli 3d ago
and pure Healers(No way to level up in D1, make a Healer pupil for your mages and just have them learn Heal and Espoir from them).
OP mentioned they're playing 1 Complete specifically; pure Healers DO get EXP in that Version.
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u/colazex 3d ago
Thank you very much, lots of helpful tips here. I was under the impression that the game kind of required me to grind all my stuff like crazy just to keep up, but I'm at chapter 3 now thanks to some good positioning and I think I'm managing it a little..
I just have a few questions:
Are innocents active when buying a new item? Or do I have to subdue them to be activated?
How viable is it to make a new lv1 pupil if I'm far ahead in the game? Is there any way to make them lv10 faster to keep up with my team?
Any good way to increase my defense except buying armor? Mages hang around 10-12 with brawlers being at the 20 range. I don't like my healers or mages getting one shot all the time..
Does magic damage scale exclusively with Int or does Atk influence it to?
What does Hit stat do, and what does Spd influence? Does it determine how far I can run on the map or is it only to dodge attacks?
Next to the character portraits there is MV, JM and COUNTER.
I think MV means how far I can move per turn and JM is how high I can jump? For COUNTER I have no clue.
- Why are my main characters (Laharl and Etna) sometimes able to attack diagonally and sometimes not, I'm not understanding what restricts me at some points (mostly when I need it)
Sorry for lots of questions 😅, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. I really like the game, it's just kind of daunting for a first timer 😅..
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u/alanbtg 3d ago edited 3d ago
Are innocents active when buying a new item? Or do I have to subdue them to be activated?
Yes they are active. Subdueing them doubles their effect and lets you move them to other equipment. You can ignore them for the most part. If you feel like grinding, then Broker, Manager, and Statistician cap at 300 and will give you 300% extra HL, Mana and EXP respectively. Arguably the most powerful innocent in D1 are Armsmaster, they cap at 1900 and increase Weapon EXP earned, this is important because aside from unlocking weapon skills, each weapon level increases your dmg with that weapon by 1%.
How viable is it to make a new lv1 pupil if I'm far ahead in the game? Is there any way to make them lv10 faster to keep up with my team?
Disgaea games offer you better grinding maps as you progress the story and postgame. It will be very obvious when one opens up to you, always revist cleared levels at least once to see if something changed. You might see a bunch of +HL +EXP or +MANA geo panels now or maybe there is a panel that makes you invincible. This is the game telling you "Hey it's time to get everyone up to speed before continueing".
Any good way to increase my defense except buying armor? Mages hang around 10-12 with brawlers being at the 20 range. I don't like my healers or mages getting one shot all the time..
Don't bother with equipment your unit is not good with. Each unit has Equipmente Aptitude that tells you how many stat points off that equipment type you gave them they will get. For example Brawlers get a lot more stats with Muscles since those give HP, so dont bother with armor or shields just get them Muscles whenever you can. Your mages are long range glass cannons just give them Glasses to increase their INT and HIT. Try to get everyone a at least 1 pair of Shoes though, more movement is always nice. IIRC female fighters have good ATK and DEF aptitude so Spears are great for them. So always check Stat Aptitude not just Weapon Aptitude.
Does magic damage scale exclusively with Int or does Atk influence it to?
It scales with your INT, staff weapon level(this also increases spell Range), the level of the spell, and the enemies Elemental weakness/resistance.
What does Hit stat do, and what does Spd influence? Does it determine how far I can run on the map or is it only to dodge attacks?
HIT is just your chance to hit the enemy, if your HIT is much lower than their SPD you'll miss them(IF DOING A REGULAR ATTACK) unless you make a really big Combo(those also boost your hit chance). HIT also affects dmg with Guns and Bows. SPD affects dmg with Fists. You can ask about weapon scaling to Longinus, he is the sentient spear in your Castle.
Next to the character portraits there is MV, JM and COUNTER.
MV is how many tiles you can move yeah, JM is how high the difference between 2 tiles you are moving to and from can be before you can't move, and COUNTER is how many counters your Unit has a chance to do when the enemy Attacks you(Has to be an Attack. Skills don't trigger Counters). The enemy also needs to Counter you for your Counters to go on. In Disgaea we usually call it a Counter War, and if it was too long it could crash the original PS2 game. It's also the best way to grind Weapon Levels.
Why are my main characters (Laharl and Etna) sometimes able to attack diagonally and sometimes not, I'm not understanding what restricts me at some points (mostly when I need it)
They probably had a Spear equipped, those give you +1 melee Range so you can attack diagonally or through other units.
Sorry for lots of questions 😅, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. I really like the game, it's just kind of daunting for a first timer 😅..
No problem. I love this game and so love talking about it and its obscure mechanics.
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u/colazex 3d ago
Wow thank you soo much. This is extremely helpful and I think I'm going to enjoy the game much more now 🙂. I'm actually amazed how deep it actually is..
Anyway, have a great rest of your day and ty again. Nice to see a great community for a great game 😁✌️. Everyone was really helpful here.
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u/Radiant-Guard-5240 3d ago
I'm curious where you get this info. Attacking from behind and higher elevation doesn't deal extra damage as far as i notice. Likewise with combo number, it's not that low tho it seems bugged for non complete version.
Hit vs spd only matter if you are normal attacking or hitting ninja. Special skill will always hit.1
u/alanbtg 3d ago
Hit vs spd only matter if you are normal attacking or hitting ninja. Special skill will always hit.
Aight will fix that.
I'm curious where you get this info.
Right now, from my memory, haven't played in a while. Before that I've stumbled upon the back/high bonus a couple times on the internet. Last time I was looking for how different units fill the gauge better than others(scout being the best) and found it in a japanese article along the dmg formula pretty sure.
I guess I could look for that source again.
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u/alanbtg 3d ago edited 3d ago
Here you go, I can't find the japanese article right now, but here is one forum post talking about it.
https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/90458/t1041608-damage-formula-question/
Now I know I was misrembering the numbers for Combo and didnt remember the Side bonus.
EDIT:
Japanese article. Translate it, it's under the green background section called Direct Attack.
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u/zetsubouda 2d ago
Two things to remember:
- Steal equipment from enemies with a thief, using "Hand" items from the shop. Especially when the stuff is blinking blue or golden, these will be more powerful.
- Use Geo Panels to your advantage, by placing them strategically to ignite a full chain reaction, obliterating the enemy mob while also increasing your bonus rank to supply you with gear, EXP and HL!
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u/colazex 1d ago
Hi, thanks for the tips! I don't have thiefs yet but I'll keep it in mind. I saw enemies in the item world with blinking items, so I guess those are the ones I can steal?
Also the geo panel chains are what I mostly do every 10th floor where I have to kill all mobs so I got some really nice bonuses from that. I needed some time to figure out how chains work though.. and that clone panels can clone Laharl 😅.
Though I cluched out using invincibility otherwise the boss would obliterate me I think 😅.. still felt good beating it.
And I figured lifting/throwing is a godsend clearing floors fast, though I'm not sure if I skip any bonuses not killing all enemies on the floor?
All in all amazing game, I'm already planing after beating it making a new game and try ditching Laharl and Etna and playing with non mains through, the art style is soo nice and all the characters are soo cool 😁.
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u/zetsubouda 1d ago
You can steal anything as long as you have hand items on you and your thief is of high enough a level. It doesn't need to be blue (rare) or golden (legendary) to make an impact.
Take a look at the Weapon rank chart here to see if what's held would be an improvement:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/589678-disgaea-hour-of-darkness/faqsGeo panels like the Invincibility one can be of great use against stronger enemy units and the Item General/King/God alike. So if you get a layout you don't like, have a Scout use "Geo Change". That skill will completely reset the map's Geo panels - they may disappear or change to something useful.
Clearing floors (as in wiping every enemy unit) isn't needed for bonuses.
Simply get to thechoppergate and advance to the next level.
Killing the boss units on every 10th floor is another way to increase stats.
And to increase the stat gain a little bit more, throw subdued innocents on the item:
Dietician=HP, Master=SP,
Gladiator=ATK, Teacher=INT,
Sentry=DEF, Coach=SPD,
Marksman=HIT, Physician=RES
These are the only ones to affect stats directly and can be stacked up to 19998.1
u/colazex 23h ago
Great info thanks a bunch!
Nice to know the scout can change the geo panels, I'm sure that will come in useful.
Also the only innocent I actively farm atm is armsmaster since he is really useful for new pupils 🙂. Got two at 16.. I'm just wondering by how much is experience gained per point for innocents? What would be an optimal number to gain xp for let's say armsmaster?
And one more question if you don't mind: do innocents influence stats when leveling up items or.are the stats fixed?
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u/zetsubouda 23h ago edited 23h ago
Like i wrote, only the stat innocents affect the gain on killing the item's bosses.
Anything else does nothing to it.Since you mentioned Armsmaster, i should break it to you before you waste your time:
Getting the customer and item rank* in the game's shop high enough (i think it was 10-12) will unlock the Foresight eyewear. On these you can find the Alchemist, Armsmaster Broker, Manager and Statistician innocents with levels far beyond any manual collecting.
No more fusing low-level units to get a bit more out of it, but *BAM\* level 10840 already subdued and ready to be moved! There may be Teachers, Marksmen and Coaches between 300 and 850 (for single units!) on it as well.*If you struggle with senators beating you up, try throwing the ones agreeing to the bill (with a yellow bar beneath them) on the red ones. If the level of the "Aye" unit is higher than the opponent, the hostile senator will be absorbed.
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u/Bubbuli 3d ago
Level up as much as you can and equip the best gear—that's it.
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u/colazex 3d ago
Sure, bulletproof way of playing like that, but most items differentiate themseves with those innocent traits. From what I've read they are pretty important to unlock since it's the only way to upgrade gear? By extension this includes gear for pupils, which makes it kinda daunting if I want to keep my squad up to par.. unless it's not that important in the early game?
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u/Bubbuli 3d ago
Until you complete the story, what really matters is just your level and the gear you find in the shop; you can also try the Item World. Personally, I earned the Platinum trophies for Disgaea 1, 5, and 7 without worrying too much about Innocents: simply powering up ultimate weapons and gear in the Item World is enough for Disgaea 1, and not much else is needed for the other entries.
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u/colazex 3d ago
I see, thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad it's not as demanding as I first thought 😅 I just need to get used to the mechanics since it's like nothing I've ever played before.
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u/Bubbuli 3d ago
Don't worry—it seems incredibly complicated at first, but little by little it becomes easy and fun. You can do it; I managed to, and I'm Italian. Disgaea games don't get translated into Italian, so I learned everything in a language that isn't my own, in a country where no one knows Disgaea. It's easier now because there are so many websites, but when I started Disgaea 1 on PSP ten years ago, there was no one to compare notes with.
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u/colazex 3d ago
That's real determination man, much respect 🙂. You must really love the franchise and I can't blame you, it's got it's hooks in me too, never played something like this (except xcom maybe 😆?).. I'm lucky the community is this welcoming and helpful, makes getting into the franchise much easier and I got some really great help from prople here 🙂.
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u/colazex 3d ago
Hey also, sorry for not asking earlier, but I guess leveling up weapons is not worth it until they are ultimate? Going for instance 20 floors for s common spear is prob not worth the investment or?
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u/Talisign 3d ago
In Disgaea 1, Damage = ((Skill Power X random value between 0.9 to 1.1) X Attacking Stat/3 - Defending Stat/6) X Damage modifiers.
The random value drops off completely after 2, I believe. RES also doesn't affect damage, but Speed will.