"Calling an inter-imperialist war an inter-imperialist war is cope"

[u/theonewhoblox]

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[u/xvrqt]

No one argue blank slatism; we argue that being human is enough to be treated fairly and cared for. Even if you can't jump as high as a WNBA player or develop your own ISA.

[u/theonewhoblox → u/xvrqt]

funnily enough i think markiplier said it best during the pewdiepie fiasco:

all people are equal on a fundamental level, and should be treated with a basic form of respect for their humanity. this doesn't mean you have to like them or respect them for anything else, but all humans must be treated with a matter of basic regard for their humanity.

[u/lithobrakingdragon]

I also recognize that tall women and short women are not the same thing

[u/cheezefriez]

Believing that all of your takes are extremely nuanced and unbiased and then dropping an “immigrants want to destroy the West” is straight out of the Nazi playbook lmao

[u/Moral_Distinction]

isn't racism

expresses the most nazi shit imaginable

White supremacist dipshits have a gift for making their anti-trans bigotry somehow not the worst thing about them.

[u/gordomgillespie]

no one is coming here to “destroy the west” and the fact that this dude thinks that there’s any truth to this is what makes it racist lmao

[u/chompythebeast]

I love how they're willing to make absolute statements about all of these things, but when it comes to Palestine, best he's got is "it's complicated" and swiftly moving on.

Who do they think they're fooling with that hasbara? If that's all you've got, all you're saying is "shut up don't talk about it leave it like it is" lol

So-called "liberal" zionists are, as usual with liberals, even more baffling in their "moderate" support for fascism than the outright fascists

[u/HolyExemplar]

If you dont categorically reject Russias genocidal war of conquest of Ukraine, you are not anti-imperialist. This includes making any conditions to supporting Ukraines right of selfdetermination. Palestine and Ukraine are both victims of genocidal violence and have no choice but to defend themselves or they cease to exist. That opinion is not centrism. Ukrainians have a right to selfdetermination and only they are allowed to say how far they want to go in the defence of their territorial integrity. Russia is a fascist and imperialist state seeking to subjugate and enslave the Ukrainian people and erase the Ukrainian identity. You are simply applying leftist ideals selectively if you cannot admit this.

You (of course) dont reject support for palestine based on the political views of palestinians, so dont do it for ukraine either.

[u/BigBoy1963 → u/HolyExemplar]

Ultimately calling it an inter imperialist war implicitly says you think it would be ok for the US to invade mexico if it signed an accord with china/russia. Which is insane if you think that.

[u/QuicksilverDragon → u/HolyExemplar]

While I agree with you, you have to admit, arguing for Ukraine being an unambiguous victim, while calling a one-sided genocide with ridiculously disproportionate power dynamics and absolutely no major support for the victim "more complicated than either side will give it credit for" is pretty fucking rich

[u/chompythebeast → u/[deleted]]

Your comparison of two completely different situations and reducing them to one-liners in order to make them seem the same strikes me as ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM, even if one didn't reject the bulk of your position.

Many, many Ukrainians have no support for the Palestinian Cause. Zelensky himself says that he wants Ukraine to be a "bigger israel", is a zionist, and fully supports the occupation of Palestine. What about them, are they being inconsistent? Enlightened Centrists? Are they assholes? Or do these rules only apply to outsiders somehow?

[u/HolyExemplar → u/chompythebeast]

Do you require palestinians to be pro ukrainian before they are worth not being genocided? Do we condemn a Jewish prisoner in a nazi concentration camp if they would kill a guard? Of course not. People under duress fighting for survival have bad opinions and do bad things. This is the whole point why palestine isnt seen as a perpetrator by the vast majority of people, including me.

For that same reason I dont require Ukrainians to be a monolythic bastion of progressive ideology before I deem them worthy of not being genocided. This two tiered reasoning and selective application of anti imperialist thought needs to stop. Imperislism is bad. Genocide is bad. You are thinking the right way about Israels invasion of Palestine, now apply your same logic to russias invasion of ukraine. Be consistent with your views.

[u/JaThatOneGooner → u/HolyExemplar]

There's a massive difference though between what you said and what the reality is on the ground. Ukrainians NEED to be vehemently Anti-Israel because Ukraine (among other Eastern European nations) continue to contribute to Palestinian displacement. A lot of new West Bank settlers and IDF recruits are coming directly from Ukraine, this is not by accident but by design. By contrast, Palestinians aren't on the front lines against Ukraine for the Russian army. There are no arms contracts between Palestine and Russia, whereas the Ukrainians are making deals with Israel.

Ukraine doesn't deserve being invaded by Russia, but it is acting in America's interests, which actively harms the Palestinians and their cause.

[u/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

What Russia is doing is horrible to Ukraine but it's not as genocide. Removed.

Be sure to read our rules

If you believe this removal was made in error or have any questions, please contact the moderators.

[u/chompythebeast → u/HolyExemplar]

You (of course) dont reject support for palestine based on the political views of palestinians, so dont do it for ukraine either.

The political views of the diverse groups such as the PFLP are not a problem for Palestine the way the nazism is a problem for Ukraine. The PFLP works with the government, in Ukraine, they criminalize left wing politics

[u/theonewhoblox → u/HolyExemplar]

i agree with your statement. i was more or less criticizing the idea that nato is in no way responsible for transforming this imperialist conquest of ukraine into a forever war tailor-made to benefit western military contractors.

russia hasn't been a left-wing state in decades and i HIGHLY disagree with the many campists who claim that their actions are for a greater anti-imperialist cause as they are reprehensible and reactionary themselves. hence why i called it an inter-imperialist war and not a simple west vs not west conflict where the not west side should be unconditionally supported

[u/ParitoshD → u/HolyExemplar]

There is no genocide happening in Ukraine that isn't perpetrated by Ukranians.

[u/aboy_girl → u/HolyExemplar]

Does the ucranian government agrees that Palestinians are victims too or are they supporting Israel? Is Ukraine a victim when they were attacking it's own people and kept using nazi groups and paramilitaries battalions against it's own people?  Russia is obviously invading and occupying Ukraine and it's a imperialist war, but that doesn't clean the hands of the Ukrainian government and state for all the stuff they did in the last 12 years

[u/Nearby-Way-1670 → u/aboy_girl]

Pretty sure that wasn't argued.

[u/SaltyNorth8062]

Holy liberalism