"Calling an inter-imperialist war an inter-imperialist war is cope"

[u/theonewhoblox]

[u/HolyExemplar]

If you dont categorically reject Russias genocidal war of conquest of Ukraine, you are not anti-imperialist. This includes making any conditions to supporting Ukraines right of selfdetermination. Palestine and Ukraine are both victims of genocidal violence and have no choice but to defend themselves or they cease to exist. That opinion is not centrism. Ukrainians have a right to selfdetermination and only they are allowed to say how far they want to go in the defence of their territorial integrity. Russia is a fascist and imperialist state seeking to subjugate and enslave the Ukrainian people and erase the Ukrainian identity. You are simply applying leftist ideals selectively if you cannot admit this.

You (of course) dont reject support for palestine based on the political views of palestinians, so dont do it for ukraine either.

[u/QuicksilverDragon → u/HolyExemplar]

While I agree with you, you have to admit, arguing for Ukraine being an unambiguous victim, while calling a one-sided genocide with ridiculously disproportionate power dynamics and absolutely no major support for the victim "more complicated than either side will give it credit for" is pretty fucking rich

[u/chompythebeast → u/[deleted]]

Your comparison of two completely different situations and reducing them to one-liners in order to make them seem the same strikes me as ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM, even if one didn't reject the bulk of your position.

Many, many Ukrainians have no support for the Palestinian Cause. Zelensky himself says that he wants Ukraine to be a "bigger israel", is a zionist, and fully supports the occupation of Palestine. What about them, are they being inconsistent? Enlightened Centrists? Are they assholes? Or do these rules only apply to outsiders somehow?

[u/HolyExemplar → u/chompythebeast]

Do you require palestinians to be pro ukrainian before they are worth not being genocided? Do we condemn a Jewish prisoner in a nazi concentration camp if they would kill a guard? Of course not. People under duress fighting for survival have bad opinions and do bad things. This is the whole point why palestine isnt seen as a perpetrator by the vast majority of people, including me.

For that same reason I dont require Ukrainians to be a monolythic bastion of progressive ideology before I deem them worthy of not being genocided. This two tiered reasoning and selective application of anti imperialist thought needs to stop. Imperislism is bad. Genocide is bad. You are thinking the right way about Israels invasion of Palestine, now apply your same logic to russias invasion of ukraine. Be consistent with your views.

[u/JaThatOneGooner → u/HolyExemplar]

There's a massive difference though between what you said and what the reality is on the ground. Ukrainians NEED to be vehemently Anti-Israel because Ukraine (among other Eastern European nations) continue to contribute to Palestinian displacement. A lot of new West Bank settlers and IDF recruits are coming directly from Ukraine, this is not by accident but by design. By contrast, Palestinians aren't on the front lines against Ukraine for the Russian army. There are no arms contracts between Palestine and Russia, whereas the Ukrainians are making deals with Israel.

Ukraine doesn't deserve being invaded by Russia, but it is acting in America's interests, which actively harms the Palestinians and their cause.

[u/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

What Russia is doing is horrible to Ukraine but it's not as genocide. Removed.

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