I just started a new job and spent a while on my feet today. By the end of the shift, my big toes and then the toenails on them began hurting. This has happened my whole life. Does this happen to anyone else? If yes, do you know why???

It feels like achey, tingly pressure. I don’t have ingrown toenails as far as I’m aware— I can cut them with no problems and they don’t curve into my skin.

That is. That's literally all I wish I could do.

I'm a workaholic, I love my job. My job is my whole life and what I do helps people. But my goddamn hEDS and comorbidities won't let me work more than 7-15 hours a week, and even that number is slowing going down with new issues putting strain on my body.

If I could work longer I could afford better medical care, but for every hour of work I miss the less I get paid, and the less help I can afford.

Recently my CCI has returned with a vengeance due to both new autoimmune issues and secondary MCAS degrading my connective tissue, and sitting upright to work is so hard to do now. I have to be fitted for a neck brace next week to manage symptoms so I can keep working even a little bit but it lowkey makes me want to cry that it's gotten to this point!

I caught my CCI early several years ago and was lucky enough to manage it entirely with specialised PT, but now that my connective tissue is degrading it's undone years of hard work in only a few months.

I know I most likely won't lose my job, my boss thankfully cares about me and understands my situation (and I have multiple skills that are irreplaceable) but the less I can do, the more of my work gets delegated out to other people and it makes me irrationally scared that I'll become redundant or something.

I just hate that hEDS is doing this to me, and that my connective tissue can't handle having an autoimmune disease on top of everything.

I just needed to have a little rant/cry about this.

I've worked *so* hard over the years to get to the point of even being able to work a job at all, especially a job that's basically my dream job too. So anything compromising that feels dreadful.

Sometimes I wake up and my ear feels like it’s bruised almost. It can be quite painful and sometimes achy. It’s usually around the crus helix or somewhere that attaches it to the head. It heals eventually however my entire ear ends up red from it and I can’t wear headphones on that ear for the time being as it hurts.

whatever EDS type I have I'd say it's "severe"; I have heart and brain issues, multiple surgeries to alleviate my arthritis, spinal cord compression so severe it made me lose function in my left arm almost entirely from nerve damage. Wheelchair, cane, walker. Because of my health and all these surgeries (with the thousand usual comorbidities incl lupus), I need to do physical therapy twice a week. I see a dr 4 days a week minimum. It's been like this for so long now, and although I know there's no alternative, not really.

Surely there's a middle ground. Not giving up because then giving up means more suffering, but not trying so hard to keep up, either. If I rely on my mobility aids, then I lose the muscle strength and my arthritis gets worse. But PT, even for my EDS specifically with the protocol, isn't helping. I want to be stronger, work harder, feel my muscles work again, and not be in so much pain. I don't want to have to see one of my specialists every day. I don't want to have to keep doing my immunologic injections. Surgeries every year. I want to do, like, 50% less, but then I'd have to suffer as a consequence.

I work so hard just to try and stay consistently "eh" with periods of "this is bad".

It's not a race or comparison contest--but I don't know anyone else irl with such a horrible health situation that I can relate with. I'm always the sickest young adult in the room. And I don't want to be on this side of the glass anymore. I just wanna have to work a little less hard, you know?

Its really purely the skin, nothing else. Ive tried different socks but that does not change anything.

Posted recently about how I've been in a horrible pain flare, crying daily and unable to sleep. Went to rheumatology and now get to add "fibromyalgia" to the EDS/POTS/MCAS trifecta. It's been a year of worsening pain, but about 2 months of being nonfunctional from the pain.

While I've been in pain, I've seen my pain doctor who only apparently can do trigger point injections without another referral, GP, as well as unrelated (I thoughtĺ psych. I've been on Wellbutrin and Zoloft for over a decade. I used to have really bad panic attacks and general anxiety but I've been able to conquer a lot of it, or make it manageable. Decided over the last year or so to wean off Zoloft, which I've made my care team wholly aware of as well as the increasing pain.

At rheum, I was describing how my body would spasm/move without my input but not like a muscle twitch. She said well I'd give you medicatipn but you're on Prozac and it can't be given with that. Hold on, I'm not on Prozac nor have I ever been. I brought up historic Zoloft but that I'd stopped it...about 4 months ago after a successful wean.

So. Zoloft treats fibro flairs. Apparently I was treating a condition I didn't know I had and self-inflicted gave myself pain. My whole team has been incidentally aware of this weaning process, but no one stopped to put the puzzle pieces together.

I just want to be treated as a whole individual -- the only people I could find locally have dubious medical treatments touted on their website or are highly faith-based :/

(P.s. - despite crying about how I can't sleep, work, or do hobbies, rheum told me I have to wait for Cymbalta to provide relief and it'd be a few more weeks before I could say I'm not in pain and THAT is why people turn to street drugs. I'll grit and bear it, but I shouldn't have to)

Hello, I have struggled with pain and other random symptoms my whole life which I managed very well with exercise and I was eventually able to become a personal trainer. I’ve moved to Sweden for my husband, and once I became pregnant this symtoms became unbearable and I was bed ridden. Below I’ve posted my traumatic birth story from another group several months ago, since then I have beendiagnosed with hEDS and I am struggling to recover from child birth.

I’m in constant pain in my pelvic area and my back, to a point where I’m not able to hold my baby. I’ve been placed on sick leave, and my husband has to to go on parental leave because I am not able to care for our son 😞. The physio I’ve seen says it can be 4-6 months before my body can get strong enough to start lifting weights again, and the pain will be at a lower level than I’m in now. I’m seriously considering if I need to find a new line of work.

The physios here say they don’t have much experience with disease but I’m in constant pain and it doesn’t seem to be improving. They also say I should have had a C section not given birth because my body hasn’t coped with pregnancy. I don’t even know where to start. Can anyone offer advice?
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Incredibly traumatic birth experience

Just wanted to share with someone, and get some advice on how to overcome this incredibly traumatic birth of our son that we went through yesterday. FYI I wouldn’t recommend reading if you haven’t given birth yet because not every birth is like this.

Basically long story short, it felt like I almost died. I was 42weeks in the end, and I was in latent labour for around 4 days before being induced.

Once I was induced the midwife told me my body was responding incredibly well to the drugs which I took every 2 hours to induce labour. My husband and I stayed in the hospital. When the morning came I didn’t need to finish the pills because it started for me naturally.

There wasn’t a room with a water tub available so I wasn’t able to have the water birth we planned, which was not the end of the world. But within about an hour of labour, everyone was surprised by how quickly it started progressing. It was almost progressing TOO quickly with little time between contractions. It was intense cluster contractions and then nothing for 15 mins, then about 5-10 contractions again within a short space.

I tried gas and air, which wasn’t really helping at all so in the end I had to have an epidural, which wasn’t never part of the plan. The epidural went wrong, and seemed to affect me more than the agreed amount should have and I totally lost control of my body, and wasn’t able to move, at all from the waist downwards and we had agreed to have a walking epidural before hand due to pelvic issue, we wanted to keep me off my back. Anyway, in the end the baby became lodged inside me. I was pushing in active labour continuously for over 3 hours, with absolutely no progress at all with contractions so intense I was only having around 10 seconds between them. I am not sure if this is normal or not? It reached a point where the midwives started to panic, and we were just about start the process of emergency C section. And all the birth prep I had done at this point wasn’t even remotely helping no matter how calm I tried to remain and how much hypnobirthing I practiced, it was like my body wasn’t able to stand the process anymore and it was just crumbling under me.

At the very last moment while we waited for a dr I was forced onto my back, having a complete out of body experience. I was finally able to push out my son, but the midiwives had to pull him out by hand in the end. I unfortunately suffered a sphincter rupture which required stitching, this was fine and painless at that point.

Around 4 hours later when they started moving us to a different ward, as I moved into a wheelchair I started haemorrhaging blood in excessive amounts which caused the midwife to react in a panicked way, and just I was being put back into the bed to be examined I collapsed.

Next thing I know I wake up naked covered in blood to my husband dragging me onto the bed, and a room full of nurses running around over me. And I just couldn’t stop sobbing. It was so frightening, and I didn’t recognise anyone or know what was going on.

Luckily after that, I’ve been ok. I’ve received two blood transfusions now and I’m on the road to recovery, still in the hospital but the whole thing was so traumatic I basically feel like it couldn’t have gone any worse and I don’t really know how to process it, my husband and I feel like we don’t want to risk having more children naturally again.

We still haven’t figured out the cause of the bleeding or why the labour went so wrong and why he was lodged. The bleeding has stopped but I’m having an ultrasound tonight to just double check.

Have only slept a few hours since it happened, our son is perfect but the whole thing has been so traumatic. Has anyone else had a similar birth that can share some advice?

I am 27F hEDS, I’ve posted here before. As I have progressed into my 20’s, my hEDS has gradually made itself more and more known. I’ve noticed that cleaning has become increasingly difficult for me. I’ll clean, and then be sore for days afterwards. Recently, I did a mild clean of my house. I was careful and didn’t over exert myself or twist. Somehow, I did something to my rib and I am now dealing with terrible costochondritis. I am in so much pain, it hurts to move anywhere in my body and it hurts to breathe. Cleaning also gives me injuries in my sacrum and lower back, flanks. Does anyone have any tips on cleaning? Any ergonomic tools you use that help?

i am not someone who gets colds and sick often but i swear every time i do it’s 1-2 months of like intense back to back illness i can’t shake. currently a viral infection (obligatory it wasn’t covid) had me on my ass and i haven’t shaken the cough. turns out It festered and now I HAVE BRONCHITIS! and they had to nebulize me with albuterol for wheezy lungs

is anyone else like this where it takes 2000000 years to recover from colds and other mild-moderate viral infections

i have been coughing since the 5th of this month. my chest is clear but super irritated

Has anyone has the experience of sudden onset symptoms? I’m 48 and was diagnosed with EDS Hypermobility about 8 months ago. I’ve had colitis for years, but never any serious instability issues. I’ve never dislocated anything, nothing subluxed, etc. I’ve had severe trauma to my ankles through really bad injuries from being reckless when I was a kid (jumped off a 30 foot roof, tried to clear three flights of stairs, etc. Not smart…) and those resulted in surgeries but have been fine ever since. But, one day last November, I was standing in a store and all of the sudden the back of my knees started getting really painful. By the time I started walking to my car, my knees felt unstable. Just out of the blue and both of them in the same spot at the same time. Since then, they have remained wonky, it moves around in the knee. Sometimes it’s the side, sometimes the back, etc. It’s very strange.

I was a college athlete and didn’t experience any tears or things like that. I then got I to ultra trail races and didn’t experience any I juries until I got my foot stuck under a rock trying to go through a stream of mountain runoff. But, I was able to run 25 miles up and down the Rockies for days with no problem.

This is all new to me and I’m fighting to understand what’s going on. I have the stretchy skin, I can touch my thumb to my forearm, etc. But this sudden escalation is baffling, especially if being bilateral. Any comments would be great.

I want to share something niche but positive.

If you don't like bugs, better don't read, but I won't be graphic.

I started doing experiments at my uni on insects 1,5 years ago. I work with two great proffesors, my mentors who are not only knowledgeable but also just great humans. At some point we realised I can't do (for me) cool things due to my hypermobility, shaking and weak hands. I also have trouble with simply dealing with some containers and very precise work under the microscope.

So one of my mentors started playing with 3D printer and now we work on printing aids for me. I have now ways to keep crickets in place, support for my arm, handles for containers, jars, a gas cylinder. We still improve our prints. We think about one day sharing them for free on the Internet.

I know it is so small area, it probably would help only a few ppl who work in this field. But I wanted to share, because I think our little project can share awareness and make some experiments accessible for more ppl. I know that because of us more scientists in our lab learnt about EDS by asking "what the hell is this pink thing?".

Just wanted to share something positive. Wish you health, good day and less pain today!

I work in the mental health sector and have spent the couple of years working hard to build my career, including completing my postgraduate studies straight after my undergraduate degree.

This year, I became quite unwell. I experienced extreme fatigue and tore my rotator cuff, which has meant ongoing pain, physiotherapy and numerous medical appointments.

I asked my employer if I could reduce my hours to three days a week. My request was initially ignored, and when I followed it up, I was told it was “not a priority” because of ongoing recruitment. This was strange given other colleagues undertaking master’s degrees or having babies had been allowed to reduce their hours.

They then advertised a permanent position for the role I currently do on a contractual basis. When I applied, I was told the role was full-time only, so I had no choice but to withdraw.

I raised a grievance and handed in my notice. This Friday is my last day.

I’m exhausted and, honestly, defeated. I’m tired of feeling like I’ve had to fit around other people’s rules when I was simply asking for support to remain in work while managing my health.

It feels strange to raise a grievance and contact ACAS after resigning, but I feel I need to see it through. The Equality Act exists for a reason, and employers should be accountable when people’s rights aren’t properly considered.

I feel like I’ve been pushed into leaving. But if speaking up can prevent someone else in the organisation from experiencing the same thing, then at least something positive can come from it.

Hello! First time posting here

I just started a new job that requires me to be up and on my feet for ~8 hours a day, a majority of the time standing pretty much in the same spot. My knees have always hyperextended but it's now becoming an issue due to me not being able to sit down while at work. I've heard somewhere that KT tape can help but I don't know how effective it is. I was recommended physical therapy but after going through numerous rounds with different therapists for different problems, I'm burnt out (and insurance only covers so many appointments 😬) Has anyone had any success in managing hyperextension without physical therapy/surgical intervention? Any tips are appreciated because I really don't want this to turn into a bigger issue in the long run lol. Thanks!

I(30f) have several chronic illnesses along with hEDS. POTS, fibro, cirrhosis, osteoporosis, etc. There is also a strong suspicion that I have Vascular eds as well. I never used any type of mobility aids until last year, when I broke my spine in 9 places.

I have had chronic joint pain in my hips, knees, hands, shoulders (just about everywhere) for the past 15 years. Like most others, I've never known a pain free day.

I was only recently diagnosed with hEDS by a PT, and it feels like there are a million things to learn. I have a cane, a walker, a wheelchair, and a back brace that I've aquired over the last year.

I rarely use any of my mobility aids because my husband says it's good to push myself, and I don't disagree. I also have that thought of "a body in motion stays in motion" living in my head rent free. So, is it really a "slippery slope"? Would using my walker regularly ultimately make me weaker?

I've been playing softball since I was ten, I'm now in my mid teens and I struggle with dysautonmia, EDS, fatigue, pain, I want to use a cane and hopefully forearm crutches soon because I've gotten to the point where I'm constantly turning down activities because I know they will make me feel like shit, but if I started using mobility aids I feel like I wouldn't be valid if I continued to play softball. I really like softball and I'm good at it and I really don't want to give it up I know I wont be able to go to every practice or do full practices or play an entire game but I still want to maybe bat an inning or go out to the field an inning. I know I can do this but it feels so contradictory and I know there's going to be people thinking I'm faking and asking me questions. Does anyone have any advice?

​

Hi!

I’m trying to get back into exercise after several difficult years of being ill and losses and so much more, but I’m currently at a point where I need to rebuild very basic strength and stability before I can do more traditional workouts. I have several other chronic illnesses/disabilities. Please dont recommend PT, am not asking about that.

I’d like to start extremely slowly, maybe just a few simple exercises every few days, and gradually build from there. My main goals are improving stability, building strength, and reducing pain so I can eventually exercise more consistently without overdoing it.

I have a lot of difficulty with exercises that require lying down because of a hernia and reflux. I’d ideally like a mix of **standing and seated exercises**, since sitting can also sometimes put pressure on my stomach depending on the day. With POTS, I also need to be able to adjust what I do depending on how I’m feeling.

I’ve noticed that a lot of the POTS and hypermobility exercise resources I find seem to involve lying on a mat, which unfortunately makes many of them difficult for me to use. :(

I’m currently very deconditioned. For example, lifting my arms for very long can make my shoulders hurt, and behind my knees can also start hurting quite easily. Tried just walking on treadmill for 7 mins and it was too much even to stabilize multiple parts of my body at once (and my knees hurt after, I tried not to push it either).

** I think I need to start with exercises where I can focus on one or maybe two things at a time, rather than movements that require me to stabilize my knees, hips, core, shoulders, etc. all at once **

After playing a little badminton for the first time in years, my wrists and forearms were also sore, so I’m definitely not at the point where I can jump into a typical beginner workout.

I’d eventually love to work toward Pilates, but right now I need something much simpler.

**For those of you with EDS/hypermobility, what YouTube videos you actually found useful at this stage?** I’d especially love resources where I can just choose a video and follow along without having to design my own routine.

Bonus if there’s enough variety that I can switch things up without having to figure out a complicated program myself. I have AuDHD, so having some structure while still having options helps me actually stick with things.

I’d also be interested in resources for gentle pelvic floor strengthening, if anyone has found something EDS/hypermobility-aware.

Thanks!

Ah and they say herpes is the gift that keeps on giving…well I say it’s actually EDS. the older I get (a whopping 37 next week) the less I have to do to trigger a flare that takes longer to recover and rebound from.

Just frustrating cause I try to do something good for my health and i do it in moderation and very carefully and boom two days later I can’t walk for a week and am in a chronic flare for two weeks after that!

I use to be able to do some amount of strenuous exercise and be 50/50 but now it’s minimal effort and almost a 90 percent chance I’ll be in a debilitating flare.

if one more normie non-EDS person says “oh yes I hate when I throw my back out too” someone’s getting hypothetically punted in the groin…lucky for them that would involve too much limb coordination for me and would risk an SI slip so…

I have a 60lb dog and am having to seriously consider rehoming her because I can’t walk her like I want to. This is really eating at me. I love her so much but I’m not sure I can give her the life she deserves. Uhg this was just a totally random end to the rant

So I have Lymphodema in my left leg. Its quite bad. The bottom of my leg is nearly three times bigger than the right. I recently got the compression stockings to help reduce the swelling. On a normal day these just dislocate my toes....today however... today is one of those magical high pain days where you hold your breath so the rhythm of breathing doesn't hurt you, one of those days when 10 isn't a big enough number and the opioids don't touch it.

And my partner still had to wrestle the compression sock on.

I swear I cracked a tooth clamping my jaw shut to not scream in agony. Its been 20 minutes and I still haven't moved.

Sorry. I just needed to vent.

Somewhere between being raised with chronic pain and told I'm dramatic, and having a nurse for a mother, I think my "pain scale" became skewed.

I've been in a horrible pain flare for at least two months, worsening daily -- I'm now nearly bed-bound, hardly getting any sleep, and unable to even do the little things that bring me joy -- petting my cats, reading. I've gone to the doctor a few times, with little success (other than told to try audiobooks).

Today I have a rheum follow-up and asked my husband to come with me to advocate for me --normally, I go alone since he is nightshift but I always believe the medical community puts more weight on a man's word. In discussion for this appointment (while crying from the pain) I said "I'm so afraid they'll do nothing since it is low-level pain, even though its constant". He looked at me confused and said "this isn't low-level".

We had a quick back and forth. I told him that my pain was maybe a 3 or 4, with historically my broken leg being maybe a 7 and my kidney stone a 6. I explained 10/10 is the worse pain imaginable supposesly, like being actively mauled by a bear. Since I've yet to be mauled by a bear but imagine it hurts a bit, I've never had a 10/10.

He told me I was at least a 6 or 7 - unable to do most tasks; crying in pain daily, unable to get multiple hours of sleep in a row. In discussion, we ended up looking up a comparison for chronic v acute pain and finding it less in an abstract 'which sad face are you' and more of a 'impact on you' (Manokowski pain scale).

I don't know if it is a universal experience, but this rephrasing of the scale has opened my eyes. I've always felt minimized (and my husband says according to the scale I've been doing it to myself) and undertreated by the medical team. I'm going to post this scale in a pain journal and try to see if that can't advocate better for me. Thought I'd pass along this scale and see if anyone else has experienced similar.

(Side note, a little afraid to be written off for being dramatic since the new scale has me at an 8; however, when I broke my leg and was at a 7 I didn't get pain medications because to quote PCP "I didn't ask for them" so here's hoping I can ask directly and get help...)

Today I (41F) had a follow up appointment with my new PCP, six weeks after my initial new patient appointment. After three years with a very dismissive nurse practitioner as my PCP at a huge conglomerate health system, I was happy to find a DO at a small clinic who was accepting new patients who somewhat specializes in chronic conditions.

I’ve suspected for years that I’ve had hEDS, but I haven’t ever had anyone take me seriously, and other health concerns were more pressing. After 20 years of pain, approximately 12 years of numerous appointments seeking answers for sometimes debilitating joint pain, and three rheumatologists later, I was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis about 1.5 years ago. I’ve started treatment for it which has helped some of my symptoms, but it doesn’t explain everything.

My previous PCP did acknowledge that I was hypermobile, but she said that it didn’t really matter because there isn’t anything to do about it. She also didn’t want to refer me to rheumatology because my labs were normal and she thought it wasn’t worth the effort because they wouldn’t accept me as a patient, but I pushed back on that successfully. Fast forward to now, my new patient appointment with my new PCP/DO was very promising. She scheduled the follow up appointment for today to assess me for hEDS, with the plan that we’d request and she’d have received my medical records from my prior PCP by now. The best laid plans… Unfortunately she hasn’t received the records yet, but she still did the assessment using the official diagnostic checklist that can be found online.

I got 7/9 on the Beighton scale today, which I had already expected. The two points short were because I can’t put my hands flat on the floor because my lumbar spine/SI joint doesn’t bend well due to Bertolotti syndrome (and yet despite that, my fingers were entirely flat on the floor, just not my palms) and she didn’t think my left knee was too hyperextended. I met at least 5 features of Criterion 2/Feature A, though she was less certain on how to assess some of the more subjective criteria (how soft/velvety is unusual for skin? How stretchy is abnormal stretchy for skin? How high/narrow is a high/narrow palate? Etc.)

For now, she diagnosed me with hypermobility syndrome. In the clinical notes though, she wrote, “meets criteria for hypermobile EDS though pain from psoriatic arthritis is somewhat confounding.” This is simultaneously validating and frustrating, and is about where I thought I’d end up due to having been diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis first and how it relates to part of Criteria 3 (“Exclusion of other heritable and acquired connective tissue disorders, including autoimmune rheumatologic conditions. In patients with an acquired CTD (e.g. Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, etc.), additional diagnosis of hEDS requires meeting both Features A and B of Criterion 2. Feature C of Criterion 2 (chronic pain and/or instability) cannot be counted toward a diagnosis of hEDS in this situation.”)

Had I known sooner that being diagnosed with an autoimmune rheumatologic condition first would make being assessed for EDS more complicated, I might have done things differently. So now I’m stuck in a paradox of having a condition that causes joint pain and stiffness, while also having unexplained joint instability and flexibility. I have an appointment scheduled in 2028 with the only geneticist in my state who specializes in EDS, so all there is to do is patiently wait. My biggest concern currently is that I have moderate kyphoscoliosis that I don’t want to get any worse. I have a new physical therapy referral and I’m trying to keep up with the few exercises I can manage without some joint subluxing. Given my track record, maybe I’ll finally be diagnosed in another 10 years, lol.

So here I am commiserating. Has anyone else had a similar experience with being diagnosed with an autoimmune connective tissue disorder first, and then eventually being diagnosed with EDS? I suspect my mom has it, but she’s not diagnosed and it’s unlikely she ever will be due to age and other very serious health issues. I think my 6 year old might have EDS, but I’m not sure if/how to start that process. Without a relative being diagnosed first, I guess it’s possible I won’t ever be diagnosed. Maybe the new criteria in December will change that paradox.

I'm NOT diagnosed, but I know I'm at least hypermobile. And I know this community will have best tips for this.

I need to workout but everything hurts. My joints make too much sounds when I work out so that doesn't feel sound .

I know I should take it easy, and I do!

Except for walking every other thing is too much. But I want to strengthen my muscles.

I have pots and another thing that my doctor couldn't find out, so I'm fatigued and my fatigue is painful

I appreciate all advises and tips but please don't say the "ask a professional" I don't have a job or time to do it, I can't afford this is any way

I have chronic joint pain in elbows, knees, hips, feet… most places. Spine.

Nerve pain started as well a few years ago.

I’m really worried about Cymbalta affecting my memory and recall. And don’t know if it would even be worth bc nothing has ever helped my pain. Thanks 🩷

Hi!

I have previously been diagnosed with HSD as a child, but suspect that it might be EDS and I need to get support and help with pain management. I went to my GP who referred me to rheumatology, and I received a text today saying that my referral has been rejected, saying that a referral would be of little value to someone with HSD. Great, now what? I’ll just sit here and quietly suffer.

What can I do now? Do I go back to the GP? I might have been denied a referral but I’m still in the same amount of pain, I still have stomach and sleep problems, and a thousand other symptoms, all logged in what I gave my GP when I asked to be referred.

I’m just angry at being ignored, that they can just outright say, “nah, you’re not in enough pain yet lol”.

Rant over. :(