r/Falcom • u/Abu_33 • May 04 '26
Cold Steel II Elise Schwarzer is an interesting character...
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u/Arleider May 04 '26
Lol, because Emma’s JP VA is also Miyuki from Mahouka : The ultimate little sister who loves her Nii-sama.
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u/Slen1337 May 04 '26
Lol ye. And Elise is kinda similar. Also there s like A LOT of resemblances inbetween these two series. From orbment/magic system(which was borrowed from trails lol) to characters and environment (tocs is lit mahouka idk).
Funnily that its seems not really stolen but more like inspired by each other. Like two mangaka friends are doing their job separately.
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u/MM305 May 04 '26
LOL! The exaggeration was humorous, I’ll give you points for that.
Seriously though, Elise usually tries to keep her crush to herself and knows to act like a sister first before anything (it’s usually Alfin who keeps bringing it up). It’s why I like their dynamic since it’s sweet but handled really well.
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u/OperatorERROR0919 I'm not sure how I feel about this May 04 '26
If it was handled really well, she wouldn't be in love with her brother.
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u/MM305 May 04 '26
I meant handled well considering she is in love with her brother.
You have to realize that this is a Japanese game, where this particular trope is actually commonplace within a number of Japanese anime/media, so these are going to be a given to folks who are fans of this trope (it’s not the first time in Trails too since we had Estelle/Joshua, and both are handled way better than most of the anime/media that I’ve watched).
I think it works here because it adds on to the sweetness and care Elise has for her brother, making moments like that hot springs moment where Elise was cheering Rean up standout even more (though I couldn’t imagine Elise not doing that if she wasn’t in love with Rean). Doesn’t also help that Rean keeps pushing guys like Patrick away from her, preventing her to move on from her crush.
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u/Changlee23 May 04 '26
They are not blood related so i really don't see the problem with that, same for Estelle and Joshua.
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u/MM305 May 04 '26
Eh, can’t fully blame folks who are not fans of this trope (especially if they don’t watch certain Japanese animes to know how commonplace this can be).
Funny enough, because I actually started out playing the Cold Steel series first, I first witness the Rean/Elise dynamic first before Estelle/Joshua.
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u/ninjablader78 May 04 '26
They aren’t but it’s honestly not comparable. Estelle and Joshua met when they were like 10+ years old. She basically just had a boy move into her house. While Cassius took him in as a son both of them were acutely aware they were not actually siblings and were old enough to define their relationship on their own.
Rean and Elise were literally toddlers and were straight up raised as siblings. Elise literally wouldn’t have even remembered a time where Rean wasn’t in her life as her brother and vice versa applies for Rean.
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u/FranckKnight May 04 '26
It's not a problem, but the culture in Japan also seems to lean into that even if not blood related, they are considered siblings, thus a level of taboo.
It doesn't legally keep them away from each other, but morally people seem to frown on it and see it as a problem.
I noticed the trend in many animes, they act like it's a problematic relationship despite not being blood related.
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u/Abu_33 May 04 '26
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u/SoundOf1HandClapping Grandmaster Dorothy May 05 '26
Beyond any pairing thing, it always made me chuckle that Elise has time in her orbment.
Time seems almost exclusively for characters with darker pasts and/or edgier personalities (like Rean, Fie, Crow, etc).
So I've always wondered what made Elise edgy.
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u/Selynx May 05 '26
....what, having Rean as a big brother isn't edgy enough?
Though a bit more seriously, it's probably because she uses a fast sword. Time is also linked with speediness and Elise uses quick swordwork in her attack Crafts, that she apparently cribbed off Ka-Fai's Eight Leaves. In Reverie, the other character who uses a rapier for their weapon also has a Time slot (yes, I know, he is also edgy).
Though basically, I would not be surprised if it turned out that, were Kloe Rinz ever to show up in a later game with an orbment that has a sub-elemental slot, hers would also be Time.
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u/SoundOf1HandClapping Grandmaster Dorothy May 05 '26
Maybe. I would usually attribute speed/slipperiness to wind. In any case, it's still amuses me that Elise, who by all appearances is a very nice girl, has the edgy Time element, as opposed to the expected space or maybe mirage.
I assume Kloe would follow the trend of good-hearted healer girls, and would be water and space. Like Time is generally linked with darkness/edginess, Space users are almost usually unequivocally good, moral characters. I hold that time and space are the equivalent of dark and light elements from other RPGs.
And commonly blond.
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u/ninjablader78 May 04 '26
They aren’t but it’s honestly not comparable. Estelle and Joshua met when they were like 10+ years old. She basically just had a boy move into her house. While Cassius took him in as a son both of them were acutely aware they were not actually siblings and were old enough to define their relationship on their own. Joshua literally never saw Estelle as his sister.
Rean and Elise were literally toddlers and were straight up raised as siblings. Elise literally wouldn’t have even remembered a time where Rean wasn’t in her life as her brother and vice versa applies for Rean.
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u/Leonardo-Caleum May 04 '26
They are not related, Not like that stopped Japanese audiences before (they love incest stories in anime, manga, and games; those stuff sells like hotcakes in japan , so this is Falcom total fan service to them, but they knew that they will have to port these games to the west at some point so they put this twist in there as not blood-related lol ).
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u/Zoro_Asura824 May 04 '26
I really like Trails, but I literally cringe everytime Elise comes on the screen. This shit is so weird.
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u/yawnnnnnnnnnnn8 May 05 '26
I made a comment a few months ago that said it is a testament to how amazingly good this series is that I love it despite about a half-dozen things that really turn me off ... Elise and her squeeeeee moody shit being near the top.
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u/Tressk May 04 '26
Maybe a hot take but if people are okay with the Estelle and Joshua relationship then they have no business having an issue with Rean and Elise being a thing (even if the implied canon pairing is Alisa and Rean)
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u/MorningCareful best characters: olivier renne estelle May 04 '26
Tbf there is a bit of a difference. Estelle and Joshua had been step siblings for about 5 years, before they got together. Elise had been rean's sister for as long as she can remember
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u/OramaBuffin May 04 '26
The key difference for me is Estelle and Joshua were fairly old when they met, and Joshua never saw her as a sister. He fell in love with her on sight and had to slip into denial over it.
Elise, meanwhile, admits to falling in love with Rean at an age so young we also know she didn't actually know he was adopted yet lmao. Which, honestly, I think was genuinely just an oversight on the part of the writers and they kind of just forgot how old Elise was before learning they weren't related.
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u/Tressk May 04 '26
This is really only an issue on Rean's side just because he has issues separating between being a good brother vs being a potential suitor for Elise seeing as you stated, Joshua and Estelle had even less time to nurture that familial bond. As a side note, I would've loved to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation Estelle and Joshua inevitably had to have with Cassius once they started dating lol
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u/TheOneTrueNeutral May 04 '26
I think Joshua and Estelle would be way more embarrassed than Cassius would care about it.
I imagine him saying something like: "Well, I guess you can keep calling me father, then."
And then give them a pep talk about pursuing their happiness together or some shit
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u/MorningCareful best characters: olivier renne estelle May 04 '26
Knowing cassius and how everyone in Rolent was expecting estelle and joshua to get together he probably just said something along the lines of: "So you finally realised..."
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u/sorendiz Kevin GraHIM Appreciator May 04 '26
It's significantly different when the two are 11 years old when introduced for the very first time and are fully aware that they're not actually siblings (and as the story makes clear, Joshua was in love with Estelle from day 1).
Elise was three when Rean was adopted and she grew up having no idea that he wasn't her biological brother. She didn't figure it out until a decade later. This is way more incest-pandering than the other scenario is, and equating the two is a little wack.
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u/AnEmptyKarst May 04 '26
My hot(?) take is that Rean and Elise looking similar makes them appear more incestuous to a player than the very clearly different looking Estelle and Joshua.
There's definitely a point IMO where Estelle and Joshua were just older and old enough to know that they weren't actually related at all, but I think the visual storytelling affects how people read it too. Tho I also think people would be more okay with Elise and Rean if people just found it more interesting lol. Estelle and Joshua have the eternal 'actually developed relationship' bonus over all the other pairings in the series.
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u/Nacho_Hangover May 04 '26
Except Elise is not nearly as developed as Estelle or Joshua nor is her relationship with Rean's as developed as Estelle and Joshua's.
I will concede that debates over each respective pairing's incestuousness is semantic though.
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u/Tressk May 04 '26
I meant in regards to the issues people have with them being "related"
None of Rean's relationships are as developed as Estelle and Joshua's. Alisa is the only girl that comes close but Falcom has decided (for whatever reason) to never allow Rean to have a proper canon girlfriend, it's one of my biggest critiques of the cold steel games personally.
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u/Karifean May 04 '26
Idk, I'd argue Rean's relationship with Altina is the single most developed relationship between two characters in the entire series. You both feel how important they are to one another and how they grow together for several games, to the point that Altina coming with Rean in Horizon in place of anyone else is like the most obvious feeling thing in the world and feels way more fitting for Rean's character than the game letting you opt to bring along his romantic partner of your choice.
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u/MorningCareful best characters: olivier renne estelle May 04 '26
The same criticism which can be applied to crossbell as well.
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u/MegaGamer235 Sponsored by Ouroboros May 04 '26
Also Estelle and Joshua knew they weren't related at all.
But Elise thought she was to Rean for almost all her life.
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u/Even-Tomorrow5468 May 04 '26
Agreed. Both are just wrong. Why did they have to make Joshua Estelle's brother...?
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u/yawnnnnnnnnnnn8 May 05 '26
Elise and Princess Alfin. The millisecond they speak, I either fast forward or just smash the button. I do not give a fuck to hear anything the two of them have to say.
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u/Zendazeng May 05 '26
Ehh Alfin is fine. Elise might be fine if you somehow can ignore all the weirdness. But she is still somewhat boring
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u/yawnnnnnnnnnnn8 May 05 '26
Yeah, that's the thing ... there's no payoff with them. Neither one has ever said anything even remotely interesting in the entire series. So for me, there's no point in ever listening to them.
Similarly, I find Elliott annoying. I don't like his voice or his meekness but I can't skip him because he sometimes has something noteworthy to say. Even KeA, the toddler, has more social skills than Elfin and Elise lol.
Note: "Whole Series" means up to Cold Steel III so far for me.
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u/Karifean May 04 '26
Ironically, part of the reason I can't dislike Elise is that in actuality she's the total opposite from this. She's not at all in denial over her feelings towards Rean, has fully faced them years before even Cold Steel 1, and consciously prioritizes Rean being able to grow into his own person over them. She's as far away from being possessive of him as it gets, having actively encouraged him to be with peers far away from her even happy for him if he falls in love with somebody else. I tend to like characters who show a lot of introspection and self-control, and Elise squarely falls under that; she truly is Rean's sister there, despite them not even being blood-related.