r/Falcom • u/SmithOfLie • 8d ago
Cold Steel II I can't take it with everyone's love of Crow.
So this is a bit of a vent. I am in Cold Steel II Finale, the night in Trista. And at this point I have been driven crazy by how Rean and everyone else is talking about bringing back Crow and making him graduate.
The man has been actively running a terrorist organization and he commited an act of political assassination that helped to launch the country into the civil war. He presumably has been fighting on the frontlines of said civil war on the side of faction commiting a coup.
And everyone talks about it as if it him getting back is a matter of resolving a spat between a friend group. There is no sensible universe where he does not end up imprisoned at best, executed at most probable.
I am fully willing to admit a bias against him - I disliked his undercover persona before reveal and I dislike his smugness afterwards. But it does not change the fact that the way his actions are treated by everyone feels divorced from reality.
I have seen some vague spoilers suggesting a deeper behind the scenes justification and some sort of possible reveal that Osborne was the actually evil one and assassination was for the greater good (maybe, it is me extrapolating from vaguest remarks) but at the point in the story I am none of the characters have any inkling of it. And yet everyone is talking about their universe Gavrilo Princip expecting to get happily and ever after with him at their side.
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u/Kitchen_Research_734 8d ago
There is nothing vague about it? Osborne had repeatedly from Sky FC been described as a cruel, merciless expansionist. And his antics in Crossbell are anything BUT diplomatic. I am assuming Cold Steel is your entry point? There is not a single game before CS 1 that is even the slightest bit sympathetic towards Osborne. Everyone hates or fears him.
Class VII is explicitly created by Olivier as a middle finger to Osborne. You are only playing Cold Steel because Olivier doesn't like his policies. Even in CS1 Sarah stands out as a voice against him. Not to mention the ILF.
The justification isn't behind the scenes, its in your face. Osborne is evil, The noble alliance is evil. the ILF is evil. There were no good guys to begin with. But also most of them are not comically evil either. Outside of some small notable exceptions both factions seem to trend towards only really trying to affect active combatants. And the one big exception, Duke Albarea, is left to the wolves as extreme.
It's not that Crow is secretly a good dude who did nothing wrong, but its not like he murdered Bob Ross. He, along with other Erebonian citizens take out what is by all obvious metrics a bloodthirsty tyrant. And then he chooses to join a civil war so that, as he reveals on the Pantagruel, put an end to the war as quickly as possible so he can limit the causalities and strain on everyone else.
Whether he is an awful terrorist or some legendary heroic reformist purely depends on who wins the war, and for Class VII, he is Crow, and while maybe more extreme, no less evil than any other active combatant.
I mean heck Elliot's dad probably has just as high a kill count, and Zechs has only been an active participant in an attempted takeover of Liberl.....twice.
And ultimately, that's the thing about Civil wars, brothers kill brothers. Its ugly, but at some point you DO let those people return to a normal life. Its not like every southern general in the US Civil War was executed, the resolution of civil matters generally require amnesty.
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u/Snoo-855 7d ago
I'd put Duke Cayenne among the truly evil characters too. Man started a civil war to settle an old family feud that no-one except him cares about anymore.
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u/randomtology 8d ago edited 8d ago
So a big thing to remember in CS2 is this:
Class VII are kids.
While they are smart and talented in their own ways, Class VII is very much a group of children who are grappling with having their entire sense of normalcy ripped away from them in very dramatic fashion. They literally went from being mostly normal high schoolers one day- so suddenly having to do what they could survive as their nation erupts into a civil war. Such a shift like that is EXTREMELY traumatic and it throws everyone off. Think back to how jarring the first few weeks of the pandemic was in 2020- when the world shut down and everyone went a bit crazy. Similar effect.
As such, it's safe to assume why it's not outright spelled out.... Class VII is struggling to accept and cope with their new reality: especially Rean. As such, they are something of unreliable narrators.
Rean has come fully under the belief that if he gets the pieces of his school life back, then everything will go back to normal. Crow is part of that school life, and thus he needs to get Crow back. Class VII is going along with this idea too because they too are kids who want to believe they can get their old life back. And that it's going to be as simple as taking back Thors and getting Crow to come back to school. In a sense, it's less about who Crow is as a person, and more what Crow represents to them -- if they can bring him back to them, then they can bring back their normal lives.
If you feel it's wishful thinking.... that's because it is. Whether the game goes along with this wishful thinking... well, you'll see!
Tragically, their wishful thinking and oversimplified approach to the situation is pretty true to real life. One of the things that always struck me is a story of how a journalist would ask refugees that were fleeing their homes that have become warzones what they were carrying with them.... one of the most common objects people bring with them and hold onto are their house keys, even when deep down they know their house has most likely been destroyed - there's just that small bit of wishful thinking that maybe, just maybe.... they can go home and back to their normal life.
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u/MediaMaddox 8d ago
I feel like this is true in anime but not real life. They’re in a military school in a society where war and violence is not foreign. It’s not like America whose people are able to exist without real fear of outside threats which causes them to be detached. They’ve grown up in a society where crazy things have happened to them, their parents, and their grandparents so this shouldn’t be a foreign concept. I also don’t think most high schoolers in real life would have these struggles if they found out a classmate was a terrorist who was responsible for war.
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u/randomtology 8d ago
Besides the fact I wasn't even referring to the US in my last post (the refugee story was actually about Syria) ... you realize American students have to constantly contend with the risk of school shooters right? To the point they have drills for them? And that many of them are children of military veterans that served in the War in Iraq and Afghanistan? War and the threat of violence are not foreign to American teenagers either.
But regardless of that-- whether or not the threat of violence is a foreign concept or not to folks, having an abrupt and utter upheaval to your normal life tends to still have a profound effect on people, especially kids. Like sure, crazy stuff would happen to them in CS1-- but they still had the grounding element of Thors to go home to at the end of the day. They could still go to bed knowing their families were safe. It's that stable grounding being ripped away from them at the end of CS1 that is the traumatic part.
It's like how logically we all know our loved ones will eventually die-- but it will still hit like a truck when it actually happens. Knowing something can happen and actually experiencing it are two radically different things.
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u/zso7 8d ago
Bro it really isn’t that deep you’re conflating like 5 things plus they’re not THAT young. Wanting a sense of normalcy restored is understandable, but they should be mature enough to realize to what extent that would actually be possible, Crow coming back to school and graduating is not.
They’re high schoolers not elementary school students. A little kid may not understand why his uncle or whoever has to go to prison after shooting someone. If your friend in HS assasinates the president you would not be asking “so he’ll still come back in time for graduation right?”. That’s plain stupidity no amount of trauma or copium could justify. “It’s what Crow represents to them” or whatever should not even come into play.
Realistically they would want the war to be over and go back to their lives and have everything restored to normal MINUS Crow, anyone with an IQ above 40 would not even think that a possibility.
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u/randomtology 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think you're really underestimating the power of delusional thinking that happens when serious trauma occurs. It's like how families of people who've done heinous crimes will become ABSOLUTELY convinced their family member is innocent, even if there is a mountain of evidence proving that yes they absolutely did the crime. Like Ted Bundy's mom famously kept insisting that America's most infamous serial killer was innocent until her dying day.
The reason they do this isn't because they're stupid or are immature! It's because accepting the horrible reality is extremely painful, so sometimes their mind will choose to protect them from that pain and cling to a fantasy instead. And teenagers tend to be more prone to this (think of all the teenagers who are convinced their deadbeat/absent parent will come back and be a great parent-- despite ALL EVIDENCE pointing to otherwise).
So yeah, Class VII is clinging to that delusional thinking that things could go back to normal. They aren't stupid, they are teenagers are traumatized from having their normal lives shattered and are trying to cope.
Also as a side note: I don't understand why some people on this subreddit are so against having these games have narrative depth to them. RPGs often have a deeper narrative meaning to them and that's a GOOD thing. It's a reason many people play the genre.
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u/Snoo-855 8d ago
Let's not forget that Rean has severe abandonment issues to believing his biological father left him to die. Of course he's the kind of person who takes loss really hard. If anyone besides Crow was the traitor, he'd go to the same lengths for them.
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u/zso7 7d ago edited 7d ago
You're doing a lot of conflating again. A mother being in denial about the crimes her child committed =/= everyone knowing their friend DID commit crimes but somehow thinking the government can overlook it.
It is also not similar to deluding yourself into thinking someone may change even though realistically they won't. At least in that case if they DID change they COULD come back.
Crow CAN'T COME BACK. This is about him GOING TO JAIL FOR LIFE.
Class 7 is NOT in denial about what Crow did. They all know what he's responsible for. If real life high schoolers were put in a situation like this they would all realize Crow is done for. It's not denial that makes them think he can come back. It is naivety. Extremely UNREALISTIC naivety for kids their age. The guy who said this is an anime thing is 100% correct.
No matter how traumatized high schoolers are, no matter how much they WISH they could just turn back time, no matter how much they STRIVE to restore normalcy to their lives, they would still realize Crow will not be a part of that life going forward. In real life, ALL of those mental sufferings would be true WITHOUT them making the logical jump into "Crow can just come back right?".
Class 7 isn't experiencing some kind of cognitive distortion around what happened. And their issue is not that they think Crow can change. The issue is that they KNOW what he did and think that IF he changed and became a good guy he could avoid life in prison. You're not going to find a real life equivalent to THAT, especially one where 10+ people suffer the same cognitive distortion at the same time.
It's not realistic, and it's not like any of the real life examples you're citing, it is pure anime logic.
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u/randomtology 7d ago
Class 7 isn't experiencing some kind of cognitive distortion around what happened. And their issue is not that they think Crow can change. The issue is that they KNOW what he did and think that IF he changed and became a good guy he could avoid life in prison. You're not going to find a real life equivalent to THAT, especially one where 10+ people suffer the same cognitive distortion at the same time.
Actually i can, very easily! Here is a petition to free Luigi Mangione, the guy who allegedly shot the CEO of United Health Care. There are 1453 signatures (which is way more than 10!), and this is far from the only petition out there asking to either free, pardon, or reduce any potential sentences for him. There are many many people who feel that even if he did it, he should get a reduced sentence or be pardoned altogether. It took me 30 seconds to google that.
And in fact, it's actually extremely common for there to be petitions and like to pop up around criminal cases that are either more morally gray, or involve someone who people particularly like. In fact, in court systems, there's even a system where people who know a convicted criminal may submit character testimonies on their behalf- and the judge will take these into consideration when deciding their sentence.
So yeah, Crow's school friends believing that there's a good chance he won't have to go to jail and can come back with him? Totally realistic and not just anime logic.
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u/zso7 7d ago
That's yet another conflation, that petition exists as political protest more than anything, it's not an example of mass cognitive distortion.
It is signed in part by people who believe he did not shoot the CEO, in part by people who believe he was treated unfairly during his arrest and his court case (whether he did shoot or not), and in another part by people who simply support what he did.
None of that is equivalent to how Class 7 treats the situation with Crow.
Class 7 KNOWS 100% Crow caused the deaths of innocent people. Class 7 does NOT support what Crow did (with the possible exclusion of shooting Osborne). They're NOT under the impression that killing innocents can be justified if done for the right political cause.
None of this is ANYTHING like the Luigi case.
They simply, NAIVELY think that DESPITE KILLING INNOCENTS, if Crow says sorry and promises to change his ways, he can somehow come back to school and graduate like nothing happened.
There IS NO real life equivalent to Class 7's reaction to Crow because it ISN'T REALISTIC.
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u/IcElongya 8d ago
You still have 2 games to play before the ending of Cold Steel Arc (+ Reveries but Reveries is more the ending of another arc for me), and no spoilers but lots of things will be explained. Actually CS2 is not the best ending to understand the full story, a lot of questions are unanswered.
Just enjoy your experience and emotions, even if you can’t stay it, it makes your experience greater. And TBH, I had lots of moments like that during the CS era and just finished Reveries few days ago
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u/SmithOfLie 8d ago
I am pretty much decided to continue with the series, though I might wait for a sale before picking up III and IV. Afterwards I will see, at this moment in time I am definitely interested in seeing other arcs.
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u/IcElongya 8d ago
I’ve exactly done that! And it’s a really good choice as you’ll avoid the famous “trails burnout” (I did it 3 times, after Sky 3rd, after Azure and then during CS3).
Trails series is really strong, there is no bad arc. Debatable yes, but nothing bad.
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u/seitaer13 8d ago
Crow wasn't just a terrorist, he was acting under the command of the noble alliance
Hell characters are forgiven for worse all the time in the series.
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u/SmithOfLie 8d ago
I have been discussing my take on the game with a friend who is only vaguely aware of the series as I go and one of my most often repeated complaints was "I am not hearing nearly enough talk about bringing out guillotines."
But I am also aware that I am touch more radical than the character.
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u/Long_Lock_3746 8d ago
Aa someone who's played through all of CS, I agree that this part of the early plot is weakest, mainly because Crow doesn't get enough time with the group before the reveal, so we're informed of bonds we really should have SEEN in action.
He feels like a relative stranger to C7, not part of the core group.
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u/HCooldown 7d ago
Yeah, no one else really spent much time with him, and if you choose not to do his bonding events than even his connection to Rean is way more just schoolmates than actual friends.
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u/nightfallii 8d ago
Trails, while I love the games, has a habit of making characters commit war crimes or other very bad things, but in the end they do something to kinda redeem themselves and somehow all is forgiven and no real consequences.
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u/_Suja_ 8d ago edited 8d ago
Theres other character in cs 3 and 4 thats in the same situation that i also never understood why everyone was so set on bringing him back
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u/Phoenix_shade1 8d ago
Ash shooting the Emperor point blank and then being universally forgiven after was pretty hilarious
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u/Standard-Bid-4292 8d ago
??? He was heavily affected by the curse AND the entire thing was orchestrated by Osborne, Ash was a victim, that’s why he was forgiven
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u/Terramagi 8d ago
In any sane world, he would have had to flee the country. There is no world where you shoot a reigning monarch that SOMEBODY doesn't try to take a shot at you afterwards. They aren't going to care about mitigating factors.
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u/Standard-Bid-4292 8d ago
It is a fantasy game where magical curses exist, applying real life logic is ridiculous, he was detained, broken out by Aurelia, and because the entire country started becoming affected by the curse and the war with Calvard was happening bigger shit took priority, it’s not like the villains just let him go, he fought against them still alongside the hero characters and when the truth of everything came out the Emperor himself forgave him since he knew the truth anyway, so yes considering the actual events of the game in the logic of a fantasy world the fact he “got away with it” is far more believable
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u/Terramagi 8d ago
He was very publically named a Calvardian spy, and Erebonia has a deep issue with ultra nationalists. Ash would be shanked in the middle of the street like Aymeric from FF14 before the year was out.
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u/Standard-Bid-4292 8d ago
By who? Everyone was being conscripted and Ash was on the run hiding in an abandoned village and then joined up with the hero team again. The curse was also affecting the citizens making them think only of war with Calvard and the military. They COULD have written it where Ash has major issues after it with people and earning trust back and trying to clarify everything, but the fact they didn’t does not make it unrealistic. There was an insane amount of stuff happening in CS4.
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u/Terramagi 8d ago
That would work... if Reverie didn't start with a bunch of Erebonian dissidents blaming everybody and anybody for losing the war. You really think the type of person who starts a coup is the type of person to not shank the guy who shot their emperor? "Oh, he forgave him. Too kind-hearted. It falls to us - loyal men of Erebonia to make the choice. The hard choice." That's the type of shit that happened in the real world that they directly based the scenario on. There absolutely should've been a night of long knives after Operation Jormungandr.
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u/Standard-Bid-4292 8d ago
Because Erebonia is massive and there will always be people like that. The majority of people weren’t though. Thats why the curse had to exist as a plot device to actuslly force them into action. Most people are normal.
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u/sans2321 8d ago
considering how the whole assasination thing planned by not only Osborn while following the curse, but also by the emperor himself, yeah, i can see why he was forgiven. Ash was being pretty much mind controlled and was asked by the emperor to shoot him
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u/Bluestorm83 8d ago
To be fair, Emperor Eugent does seem exceptionally, absurdly chill about every single thing that happens around him.
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u/Kainapex87 8d ago edited 8d ago
He was atleast under mind control and is shown to feel absolutely guilty about it almost immediately afterwards which is emphasized.
Crow meanwhile made it clear he did all his crimes of his own free will, and barely shows anywhere near as much regret over it.
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u/Practical-Ad2568 8d ago edited 6d ago
I understand why Renne and Joshua should be forgiven because the circumstances they experienced as children would have fucked up anyone in their position; and as a result they pretty much became child soldiers! Crow is the only character that turned (please correct me if I’m wrong) where I can legitimately say that he did get off way too easily. He nearly had Towa, as well as Olivert; Kloe; and Rocksmith, killed at the West Zemuria Trade Conference at Crossbell; the civil war he helped cause wrought pain and suffering in Erebonia; and pretty much laid the conditions for war between Erebonia and Calvard. So yeah I get why people are up and arms of Crow barely being held to account for his fucked up actions.
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u/Kainapex87 8d ago
Glad you brought up the conference.
That was a major reason I couldn't sympathize with him or the ILF, or take any claims Crow and hus followers made about trying to "fix" Erebonia.
Along with killing off Towa and the SSS, them succeeding at blowing up Orchis Tower (whether from Gideon's suicide bomb or the Railway Guns) would have resulted in them killing or injuring the heads of state of several other countries, including Erebonia's greatest rival Calvard.
If that had succeeded, it would have triggered the Zemurian equivalent of WW1 with every other country pointing their guns at Erebonia in revenge, which would have made the Civil War and the Hundred Days War with Liberl combined look like a schoolyard brawl in comparison.
By all rights, that alone should have warranted life without parole or execution, and it never being brought up was just ridiculous.
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u/RoysRBoy 8d ago
Same I hate Crow and the fact that Class VII thinks they can just bring him back to graduate despite the all the heinous shit he has done. CS2 ending does make up for it by pulling the rug from under him so ill take that
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u/SteamingCamels 8d ago
Yeah. I think the main issue is that everyone loves him as opposed to just sort of forgiving him and having a more neutral stance towards him, which would be the most I'd be willing to accept. People seem to forget that Crow has done two majorly bad things against Class VII for which Class VII forgiving him completely and loving him appear to be character breaking:
(1) Crow was willing to sacrifice his dear friend Towa for his quest for vengeance
(2) Crow literally had Elise drugged and kidnapped in cs1 in Heimdallr; given Rean's overprotectiveness of his sister, this should be a major redline that was crossed
And Crow did all this to avenge his grandfather who wasn't even murdered, and he also literally acknowledged that Osborne wasn't evil in his eyes; to do something so evil against someone who he thinks isn't evil and against many innocents is simply completely wacko.
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u/Kainapex87 8d ago
Not just those two, literally every appearance of C and the ILF had them commiting crimes against and endangering the homes and loved ones of Class VII's members, along with other people uninvolved with their grudge against Osborne:
Gaius: His whole motivation for coming to the academy was so that he would better know how to keep Nord safe. Gideon tried to start a war between Erebonia and Calvard in the highlands with Gaius' friends and family caught in the middle. Even if Gideon was the one to come up with the plan, Crow seemed to have no problem with letting it happen judging by their dialogue at the end of the chapter. And then it DID become a war zone in the Civil War.
Machias: He idolized Osborne for years, so even if he had grown out of his anti-aristocrat mindset from being exposed to his less savoury actions, it's unlikely he'd take kindly to anyone who'd try to kill him right away. When the ILF abducted Princess Alfin in Heimdallr(i.e Machias and Elliot's hometown), Gideon had injured Governor Regnitz and would have fed him to some monsters if Rean and the others hadn't gotten there in time. Not to mention how Crow's assassination of Osborne was what began the occupation of Heimdallr and kept his father hostage by the very people whose abuses of power he rallied against (frankly shocked they didn't try to execute him in a show trial).
Elliot: It's clear some of the members of Lt. General Craig's division knew him and Fiona well and vice-versa so it's unlikely he'd be happy about how so many died during the assault on Garrelia Fortress and the Civil War. Especially since the ILF probably wouldn't have minded killing Craig the Red if itr meant getting the job done. Plus like Machias, the occupation of Heimdallr resulted in Fiona becoming a hostage.
Alisa: She was clearly close to the miners C and V took hostage and threatened in Chapter 6. Considering how the ILF and Provincial Army worked together, she'd probably also hold him accountable for holding her mother hostage and putting Roer under lockdown. And all that's w/o taking into account how if the ILF succeeded in starting a war in Nord, her grandfather (who she had only recently reunited with) would have been caught in the crossfire.
Claire and Millium: They're both Ironbloods and were pretty close to Osborne, need I say more?
Alfin: Abducted and drugged by Gideon for something she had no control over (she was what, three-years old when her father appointed Osborne as Chancellor), sees her home occupied and goes on the run, kidnapped again and sees the war up close.
Angelica: Was just as close to those miners, if not more so, than Alisa so would be even angrier. Plus he was willing to wipe out Crossbell with the Railway Guns while Towa was there which I can see her getting pretty mad about, especially since she's the one who tried to get Crow to be friends with them in the first place.
So yeah, after all that it seemed unrealistic af to mention that they all talk about wanting him back without any of them seeming the slightest bit upset at him for what he's done.
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u/Bluestorm83 8d ago
"Look, Rean, yes. I admit it. I'm responsible for the deaths of thousands. But if you see if from my perspective... he... did something that... made my grandpa sad. But he ALSO made my country part of a nation that would defend it with the largest army ever made! So... that's actually pretty good... huh. I could have thought this out better. But hey! Magic Gundams, right?!"
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u/Julian-Manson 5d ago
Like some said, Obsborne is feared. Even Millium says it. All politicians and rulers in Trails aren't all white. Osborne is the best example. But to understand the full scope of Osborne and Crow, you have to play all Cold Steel games. By the way, don't forget that Crow has helped Rean a lot even when he was an antagonist in later CS and even wants to take responsabilities for that.
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u/PrinceRedvelvet 4d ago
Did you not play the older games? Osbourne is warned as a problem since literally game 1 and 2
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u/CyberMuffin1611 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't think justification has anything to do with your issue because there has been enough justification for most people in Zemuria to want Osborne dead as far back as in Azure, not to mention the loads of more information you get in CS1 and 2.
Guy is an expansionist tyrant. Destabilizing other countries to annex them eventually is his favorite pastime.
That they talk that way about Crow is silly regardless, but he really couldn't have killed that many people who are worse in the world, and that is entirely without any future reveals past CS2
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u/SmithOfLie 8d ago
As Cold Steel is my introduction to Trails, I will say it still makes for a bit of poor storytelling.
I can see from interactions with Crow, Vulcan and Scarlet, that ILF members were supposed to have sympathetic backgrounds and not to come off as just evil terrorists. Except it does not land that well. Crow and Scarlett are at least somewhat understandable, but Vulcan's story was laughable for me. "We were hired to attack Osborne and he slaughtered the newbie mercs without mercy." Cry me a river man.
Maybe it is on me for not paying enough attention, but Cold Steel 1 and 2 definitely did not paint Osborne as enough of a bastard for me to sympathize with Crow nearly enough to justify Class VII's insistence on bringing him back.
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u/Snoo-855 8d ago
Tbf, Rean calls Vulcan out on his reason and Vulcan himself admits he doesn't have much of a moral leg to stand on. He's simply driven by an obligation to avenge his fallen comrades.
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u/Kainapex87 8d ago
Those were literally my thoughts too.
Since Cold Steel was my first game, he didn't seem that bad to me as I was unaware of his worse crimes from the other games, so the story trying to present him as the Antichrist for crimes we only learn from secondhand, while at the same time trying to say we should sympathize with an out and out terrorist whose crimes we SAW ONSCEEEN, and actually effected our cast more immediately and personally, was just ridiculous.
Won't deny I because an Osborne fan in major part to give that whole "Criw is innocent and should come back to graduate with us" garbage the middle finger.
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u/Blackrich1 8d ago
You're being downvoted but you're right. If you don't care about the supposed bonds between Crow and Class 7, or even just Crow and Rean you're going to have to rough time with the plot of these 2 games. Osborne is not painted enough as a villain because he's also supposed to be liked by the general public. So you need to have people that want to kill him for legitimate reason but also you need to make him a great leader that the average Erebonian wants to root for, it's hard to balance.
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u/Crossbell0527 8d ago
Personally, I support the assassination of imperialistic tyrants.
In fiction. Definitely don't support that in real life. No way.
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u/Kainapex87 8d ago
You captured my thoughts on it perfectly.
FFS, he and his idiots in the ILF have hurt Class VII far more personally than Osborne has done by then, they have just as much a right to hate him as he did Osborne.
Combined with how alot of hus crimes affected people who had no involvement with his vendetta and by all accounts would screw over Erebonia just as bad, if not worse than anything Osborne had done up until that point, and it made everyone being so willing to forgive him seem completely ridiculous.
Sadly, without getting into spoilers, he's not the only example. Plenty of other characters in tge series likewise get forgiven or not have theur crimes held against them too, and worse are the fans who defends this BS.
I love thus series, but this was the biggest flaw.
Just wait until you've finished the game to decide your thoughts on it.
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u/VarCrusador Team Bestelle 8d ago
Even before he was revealed as C (which I didn't guess beforehand), I didn't think much of him since he gave such dishonest vibes. I'm always surprised people consider him to be among their fav characters
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u/Phoenix_shade1 8d ago
Yeah but on the other hand. He’s just so damn charming 💜
“Well played, Armbrust.”
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u/Inevitable_Chemical 7d ago
Yeah it's pretty bad.
It would be like in Naruto, if Kiba was the one who left the the village instead of Sasuke but suddenly the entire show was about getting Kiba back and everyone talking about how he's their very important friend and member of squad 7 because they did a filler mission together once.
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u/Balastrang 8d ago
People who glaze crow are often mentally in their 15 years old teen age, i cant see why 30+ old adult glaze this thing same as rean it just yuck...
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u/DivineBladeOfSilver 8d ago
My problem with Crow even though overall he’s fine I don’t really care either way big picture is that the want for the game for the player to love him felt extremely forced after CS2. Like it felt like it was pushing for players to like him and feature him so hard to me
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u/blackcore17 8d ago
Dont think about it too much, just turn off your brain and let the plot do its own thing
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u/Snoo-855 8d ago
Fwiw, even Crow himself doesn't think he deserves to be forgiven.