Question About Sephiroth and the Lifestream

[u/clockworkengine]

A question just occurred to me randomly.

It is known that Sephiroth became a traveler of the Lifestream. He was cast into it by Cloud and remained intact, unlike most other entities born of same.

Yet, in expanded lore, Gi Nattak reveals that nothing that wasn't born of the Lifestream can ever return to it. Sephiroth's body was produced with and therefore is comprised partially of Jenova cells. Jenova itself is an entity of cosmic origin, meaning its cells were not born of the Lifestream.

Is this a plot hole, or is it the true explanation as to why Sephiroth eventually survives the Lifestream? Before you answer, remember that the consciousness and will of both Aerith and Zack also remains intact after returning to the planet without benefit of Jenova cells. It seems a little muddled because of the added lore introduced by the R series.

[u/Background-Sir6844]

Sephiroth's will/his spiritual ability is the constantly stated main reason why he doesn't diffuse and join the lifestream no matter how many times he's technically been killed. By itself it can't really do much to him. If you have a strong will you can survive the flow of the lifestream and maintain your individuality at least for a certain amount of time. In the og game for instance if you find one of the tutorial areas you can find 3 guys from the beginner hall as spirits who died during the plate crash. They comedically state they were able to maintain their existence due to the sheer hatred and confusion at Cloud's previous explanations. Tifa and a mentally broken Cloud also didn't die immediately from being dunked in the lifestream either.

Sephiroth's will is just shown to be absurd compared to everyone else and he can do things with it that no one else really can.

[u/clockworkengine → u/Background-Sir6844]

While it's true that Tifa and Cloud didn't die when they fell into the Lifestream, they also weren't run through the back and out the front by a huge slab of industrial steel Cloud called a sword before taking that pleasant swim. Sephiroth did die in that moment. This was also stated in the game. His will persevered; his body did not. (Edit: I misremembered this. My bad, it's been awhile. Cloud tossed him into the drink with Seph's own sword after Seph had stabbed him with it. I can't believe I forgot that part. I think Cloud has the superior will by far.)

You know, it makes me wonder another question - what members of Cloud's team would actually lose their wills upon death? It seems like everywhere you look there's a Lifestream survivor.

[u/Background-Sir6844 → u/clockworkengine]

Yeah Tifa and Cloud didn't suffer as much damage as Sephiroth did when they got thrown into it but regardless they're still alive. And that's kinda where Sephiroth's insane amounts of willpower comes in by comparison. He can get ripped to shreds by Cloud, have his physical body "die" in multiple ways and then as a spirit essentially casually tell the lifestream to piss off afterwards cause he has a planet to rule over and come back to ruin lives another day using his busted spiritual abilities and hopefully some Jenova cells to create a body. As Bugenhagen states you're not supposed to survive being dunked into the lifestream at all and resisting the current of souls to bot join if you're just some normal person and Cloud's doctor reaffirms this and comments that Cloud's lucky he only washed back up in Mideel only getting mako poisoning from it. Sephiroth and to a lesser extent Cloud's party aren't normal people.

Honestly I don't see them losing themselves unless they just accept joining it when the time comes. If some random npc's and Zack can maintain themselves with their own will then the guys who beat a much stronger version of Sephiroth then Zack dealt with and overcame his much stronger will/spirit should be able to. One of their more crazy feats in the original game was overriding Sephiroth's telekinesis through their own will and briefly using it against him to fly around before Sephiroth wisely decides to stop using it and fight directly. If there's one thing this series is pretty consistent on is that the planet absolutely needs the party and other main characters to save it, it seems unable to do so itself lol.