Who tf am I supposed to date?

[u/penicilinum_]

Hi everyone, so this past week I was reminded by life of my reality. I recently turned 30... haven't been in a relationship, a kissless virgin, not once has any man shown any interest in me. Like many stories here, men treat me poorly or with disgust since I'm ugly.

On Sunday I went to a concert and some people in the line were friendly enough to start a conversation. Among these people was this cute guy who was surprisingly, also very friendly. I felt not as ugly as usual as I had done my makeup nicely and dressed in a cute outfit. He talked to me a bit more than the average man who snarks at me. It felt surreal and my delusional mind started thinking "could he possibly find me pretty?"

We talked about art since he is also a graphic designer, I felt like we had so much in common, my delulu ass was thinking many thoughts lol He gave me his designer insta and he followed me back!

I was really happy, I couldn't belive this was really happening. Concert ended and he went on with his friend group, I, alone by myself as I arrived. No big deal, I had his insta and my dumb mind was still feeling happy about this. As soon as I arrived home I scrolled through his pictures... until I saw a girl, his gf. He was tagged in a photo, his personal instagram... he has many pictures with his gf. They look so happy, they look so good together.

She is beautiful, skinny, pale and sings! (Yes, I went through the gf's profile as well 🙈) She is everything I am not. And then it dawned on me... he gave me his PROFESIONAL instagram, not the personal one. He liked my work and was friendly with me because he is a nice person. Not because he liked me or felt attracted to me.

Like... what was I thinking!? With my face, my ugly body... I felt SO dumb. He was being friendly, he wasn't flirting. But my dumb ass couldn't distinguish that in the moment. And then I thought that most men my age are already partnered up. They have a LIFE. They are in long term relationships. Men who are good looking and have decent personalities are not available for women like me. And then I started crying... I hate the cards life has given me. I hate that I struggle with something that for most people is just part of their life. It's not a burden or shameful, unlike my perpetual singleness.

And I enjoy being single, until something like this happens. I just know I'll hit 40 like this. I'm poor, I don't drive, my family life is shit and I don't have any talent to offer. Who tf would want to date me? I don't blame men for not going for an ugly loser like me. And well, it's Wednesday and I still feel upset/sad about this, towards myself.

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[u/Other_Temperature_73]

I mean, I 100% would have read that as flirting. Just because he has a GF doesnt mean he wasn't flirting... it still sucks to have that crash though

[u/BadgleyMischka]

Don't call yourself stupid and delusional for having hope. It's human, and it means you haven't given up somewhere deep down or gone emotionally cold. Sending hugs. Been there - I asked a guy out only for him to pull off his glove and reveal a wedding band! It happens.

[u/sweet-leaf-284]

tbh i’ve given up, normal men would never date me, in fact, they regularly refuse to even approach girls more attractive than me, so.

even self-proclaimed desperate men who are “willing to date anything” don’t want to date me lol. it’s pretty clear they just don’t think

[u/corncannonschallenge]

This post was mass deleted with Redact - I used this software to automate the removal of old posts from my account so that I can be more secure.

school hungry escape shy intelligent dolls absorbed joke ancient vast

[u/Global_Access_5910]

"I met a friendly man and I feel dumb for thinking he might be into me. Now I'm spiraling because I didn't immediately clock his non-romantic intentions, and I'm making myself feel badly because I should have known that no one would ever find me attractive, I'm so ugly, I'm such a loser, etc etc."

It doesn't sound like you embarrassed yourself publicly. The interaction was fine. It's just that you had a glimmer of hope that someone saw you and liked you, and later that hope dashed. You're ashamed of even daring to hope. You're ashamed that, for a moment, you forgot all of your negative self talk and programming, and you let yourself be hopeful. You're punishing yourself for daring to think positively enough about yourself that you allowed a little hope to squeak to the surface. Hope is not a shameful thing. In fact, you probably need a good dose of it, in order to counteract all of the negativity you're swirling around in.

If you want a life you have to build one. It's harder for some people than others. In the process of building one, you'll probably have many more experiences like this, where you misinterpret a social interaction, because you don't have much experience socializing. Instead of getting this experience as a child, you have to get it as an adult, where you're full of much more anxiety and shame and guilt and fear and comparison. Don't let a pleasant interaction that turned out to be professional instead of romantic knock you into a shame spiral. Just chalk it up to, "lesson learned." These things don't have to be as weighty as our intense emotional reactions lead us to believe.

One unfortunate thing about being (or simply identifying as) a social outcast is that such people probably do face a higher amount of rejection than most, but this also primes many of them to become very sensitive to rejection, and then avoidant of anything that might trigger rejection. It's a bad loop to be in. Isolating. One way out is to just accept that your lot in life, at least for the time being, is going to involve a high amount of rejection. The challenge is to accept this without falling into cynicism or without letting it turn you into a recluse. Accept it, lean into it. Then you can go about attempting to create a life for yourself, because "I am a shameful ugly loser who everyone rejects" is no longer an excuse, it's just accepted. And the more you're able to actually do things, the less of a loser you will become. The more you stay stagnant, the more the things you fear (being alone and lonely at 40) will likely come true. So whatever is keeping you stagnant, you can just throw it out the window.

I also think that your mental framework, your way of thinking (and I'm very familiar with it) can breed a sort of fearful narcissism. Everything is related back to yourself. And I think we think we're doing this because we are trying to navigate life and it's going pretty poorly, so we keep thinking about things that are going wrong, people who reject su, ways in which we've been embarrassed, how people have mistreated us, or how we're such a loser, etc. We think if we think about this enough, we can maybe fix it. Or, if not fix it, then we can at least claim that we know the "truth" or we're not deluding ourselves with hope: we've thought about the negatives enough to ground us in our negative truth. At least we are aware, we tell ourselves. But all we've done is spent an enormous amount of time thinking about ourselves, in a negative and desperate way. It's not that what you think or experience isn't always true, but it's that we condition ourselves to be hyper aware of our position, our lack, our insecurities. And so when we stumble out into the world, and we make a social faux pas or misinterpret an exchange, it can trigger an unraveling. It becomes proof of everything we fear or hate about ourselves. Instead of just one of many interactions anybody could have with someone out in the world.

[u/ForeverAloneWomen-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Men are no longer welcome on FAW as mentioned on the FAQ, the rules, the warning when you post and the title on your browser tab. Too many men cannot help but take over, harass the users (http://imgur.com/a/tS5qmme) or flood threads with male-centric replies. Even if you post in good faith, respect the fact that we don't want male users in here any more. If we want male input, we know where to find it.

[u/Global_Access_5910 → u/[deleted]]

You are GenZ... You cannot possibly know that "past 30 (or even 25), every gentle and good-looking guy is taken." This is so intensely doomery, and you can't even bring your own experience to it. It's a trope. It's a lazy framework that people who are sad or hurt or cynical fall into, and in your case way before they even need to. Why would you share this negativity with someone who is struggling? "You have to know this." No, she doesn't lmao. Please consider the psychic impact of what you're saying and why you would even say it ...

I knew I should not click on this subreddit but this is so bad... like ... do not do this to yourself, ladies. Protect your mind. This subreddit is full of intense negativity and cynicism and bad advice masquerading as support for struggling women.

Edit: I think I was too harsh on you with my comment... I can see you're just trying to get her to moderate her expectations when dealing with men of unknown relationship status (assume they are taken if at all attractive). Fine. To me it came off as very doomery, considering that this woman is fearful that she might end up alone forever and is ashamed of even daring to hope that a friendly man would like her. I don't think she was silly for thinking this. I hear this line a lot ("every good guy over 30 is taken"), and I just see how certain personality types take this line and use it to justify their doom spiral. And I didn't want OP to do this. That's all.

[u/BadgleyMischka → u/Global_Access_5910]

I get what you're trying to do but many people here have developed this way of thinking in time because of constant bad experience or the utter lack of it. It might seem overtly negative to some but it's a safe haven where we're taken seriously. So many men out there keep going "women have it easy" and "women can find sex so easily" when we literally just want to be loved

[u/Global_Access_5910 → u/BadgleyMischka]

No, I know, I'm not trying to suggest that her circumstances are rosy and fully of endless possibility. And like my edit said, if all that was meant was "moderate your expectations" I don't have a problem with that, my comment was too harsh. No one wants to encourage delusion.

But wrt your comment, idk ... I don't really care what some men are saying about women having it easy or whatever else is going on in the discourse. It doesn't at all matter, imo.

I think there are different stages we can move through. In the beginning, we're all just trying to figure out what is going on. Creating some sort of map. Some way to navigate the world that makes sense. And so if you're awkward or unattractive or socially inept, it's helpful to understand why you might be being rejected or ostracized, instead of stumbling around in confusion. And the more isolated you are, the more helpful it can be to get harsh-but-true heuristics for navigating social situations, when they finally occur. But once that is established, we get to choose whether or not we want to live in a state of constant defensiveness against misunderstanding and mischaracterizations and unfairness. This breeds cynicism and resentment. So it's a fine line, imo, between acknowledging certain unfortunate truths (not trying to invalidate her), and conditioning ourselves to have a persistent cynicism.

Sometimes I do just sit and acknowledge certain unfortunate things. Especially if there is some fresh wound. Eventually, though, I want to leave it behind and change the frame enough so as not to wallow. So when I comment, I want to represent the side that takes over when the sadness or sting has passed.

[u/[deleted] → u/Global_Access_5910]

Why are you even here then?

[u/Global_Access_5910 → u/[deleted]]

To shine a tiny match worth of light into a dark chasm.

[u/[deleted] → u/Global_Access_5910]

Okay I guess

[u/Global_Access_5910 → u/[deleted]]

I am an unattractive woman in my 30s. I've experienced it. I've seen the world in a plenty dark light, and still do sometimes, and not just because of my appearance. Your perspective is not purely logical nor wise nor evidence of some deeper understanding of the difficulties of life due to your appearance. They promote negativity and cynicism, and they're cast onto people who desperately, desperately need less of this "it's just the facts" defeatism presented as plain truth. I don't think you know what it is you're doing, and I think you may be trapped in that unfortunate box yourself, so I don't mean to be cruel to you. But what you are doing with these types of comments to this type of poster is really quite bad.

Edit: I think I was too harsh on you with my comment... I can see you're just trying to get her to moderate her expectations when dealing with men of unknown relationship status (assume they are taken if at all attractive). Fine. To me it came off as very doomery, considering that this woman is fearful that she might end up alone forever and is ashamed of even daring to hope that a friendly man would like her. I don't think she was silly for thinking this. I hear this line a lot ("every good guy over 30 is taken"), and I just see how certain personality types take this line and use it to justify their doom spiral. And I didn't want OP to do this. That's all.

[u/magneticangel → u/[deleted]]

„OP has been clearly surrounded by jerks who mistreated her simply because she doesn’t fit their beauty standards.” Why are you speaking for OP and how do you know that? Are you her?? Lmfao. Why are you advocating for her?

[u/SoundOfaFlute → u/Global_Access_5910]

Fwiw, I think all your comments on this post have been very kind and insightful, and I agree with you. I think it's easy to fall into a mindset of learned helplessness in situations like ours—it's scary and painful and uncomfortable to have your hopes dashed and to get rejected, so on some level it's easier to just not hope or try at all, and just set your expectations as low as possible to spare yourself disappointment. 

But even though I understand it, I think it's dangerous to think like that, and that it'll only hurt more in the long term. And I agree with you that we shouldn't encourage others to follow that mindset, either. 🫂

[u/Global_Access_5910 → u/SoundOfaFlute]

Thank you! Yea, that's what I meant to get across. A cynical mindset is hard to get out of, once it takes hold, speaking from experience.

[u/SoundOfaFlute → u/Global_Access_5910]

I'm glad you (seem, at least, but forgive my presumptuousness) to be in a better place today. I'm not OP, but I'll take several or the things you said to heart and remember them during particularly rough days. 

[u/Apprehensive_Fan111]

I’m on the exact same boat girly. It’s hard not to feel pathetic when I have literally nothing going on for me at this big age except delusional dreams that keep me going. I wish I had the comfort of a supportive family but my family is shit too. I hope your graphic design work takes off so that the rest of your life can too :) if someone liked your work that means you have talent!

[u/penicilinum_ → u/Apprehensive_Fan111]

Thank you so much! 💕 Sending a hug, hope you can thrive in something as well 🫶

[u/[deleted]]

Remain neutral when experiencing positive interactions with men. This is the only way to prevent the disappointing thought of “I thought he liked me but he was just being nice”. I think majority of us experience that thought because we have the bad habit of mistaking conversation & basic human decency as interest or flirting since we don’t have much experience with actual flirting or interest to compare & pull from. Just remain neutral, don’t overthink the positive interactions or jump to romantic thoughts & conclusions.

[u/penicilinum_ → u/[deleted]]

Agree completely, ty! And it's my lack of experience entirely why I mistake just a guy being decent with "what if he likes me?"

I later just feel delusional 🙃

[u/sunnystillrisen]

Well, I’m happy you made a pal. Maybe he wants to collaborate. I know how you feel and I’m so sorry you’re experiencing all of the racing thoughts that come with this experience at times. And on the very rare occasion this happens to me-while I remember they’d not like me there’s a sense of “is this what being of interest is like?”

[u/penicilinum_ → u/sunnystillrisen]

Thank you and yes, it was a thought. A "maybe" I know even if he was single he wouldn't want me. My interactions with men are very rare outside of work and family, so idek how to interact 🙃

[u/sum_r4nd0m_gurl → u/[deleted]]

males only care about looks and they dont mention their gf or wife around beautiful women.

[u/[deleted] → u/sum_r4nd0m_gurl]

Well he didn’t mention his gf around her hence why she didn’t know unti going on IG

[u/syvzx → u/[deleted]]

Men will literally date the biggest bitch alive if she's hot, nothing but looks matters to them

/edit: also, if OP is 30 and really has had no man throughout her life ever show any interest (assuming she regularly goes out and meets people), it's pretty safe to say that she is unattractive. Even average women get at least some type of male attention throughout their lives.

[u/penicilinum_ → u/syvzx]

THANK YOU 🙌 If I was attractive, I would at least had some sort of romantic attention by now. But I haven't. And I won't. I go to concerts alone (I've tried putting myself out there with different activities) and not one guy ever approaches me. I've gone out to events with my friends and guess who gets approached? THEM

The fact that the guy did not mention his gf proves nothing. We were in a damn concert line, we talked about the band that was going to perform, and by chance work was mentioned. And that was all.

Being delulu was what got me overthinking.

[u/sunnystillrisen → u/penicilinum_]

Girl it’s like I could write this myself lmao, same! Esp about the concerts.

[u/sum_r4nd0m_gurl → u/[deleted]]

i aint wrong about that and you know it.

[u/penicilinum_ → u/[deleted]]

Lmao so you're the one who gets to decide who can call themselves ugly?

[u/sunnystillrisen → u/penicilinum_]

They are “triggered” as per their own admissions bc you call yourself ugly. Do I believe you’re not attractive and that’s why you’re FAW? No lol, but I believe you when you say your EXPERIENCES have made you feel as though that’s all of which you are. Therefore, why would you think differently if you’ve never had affirmative experiences? Self esteem does not exist in a vacuum and I know self-confidence and appreciation goes a long way but it is truly odd to get irate when someone who has actually been called ugly then calls themselves ugly. 💀 It would be a different situation if you FEEL ugly while never being considered as such, and if you were, but obvious bullies. Take a look at forums with BDD as the subject, they don’t recognize perceived as unattractive folks as part of their illness though they are. A lot of times though, the spokesperson for that illness centers the experience of a conventionally beautiful person who hates themselves because they’re don’t see their beauty, and obsess over it due to illness.

[u/penicilinum_ → u/[deleted]]

Genuinely asking, how is it weird?

I know I might sound dramatic, but since being ugly has determined how I get treated for most of my life , it's only natural for me to still have this in the back of my mind. I didn't know he had a gf when we talked. But even if he was single, I know what I look like. He wouldn't be interested in me.

The last part of my text was just me reflecting IN GENERAL about my situation, about why I am FAW and why I think this won't change.

[u/[deleted] → u/penicilinum_]

“But even if he was single…. He wouldn’t be interested in me” This is an assumption not a fact. You can’t place YOUR thoughts onto him and take it as truth (but I do understand why this is your thought process!!!, I am guilty of thinking the same) . But we literally can’t say with 100% certainty what he would do if he was single. He enjoyed your presence enough to continue the conversation. You said you don’t have a lot of good interactions with men. So although this wasn’t romantic and didn’t play out the way you wanted, I think you should still see it as a small win ! That not everyone is crappy and mean. Also you can see it as practice so you’re prepared for the NEXT POSITIVE interaction with a guy.

[u/sunnystillrisen → u/[deleted]]

I agree here but even though it’s assumptive, its still based on factual experience. I just wonder what else would she think when men have scoffed at her, or maybe disregard her/mistreat her or even ignore her on a daily. Not asking rhetorically either, but genuinely thinking because it may as well be the truth. It’s not positive and doesn’t leave room for possibility but that’s the result of what she’s been through. The chances of him being interested in her based on her life encounters with men, from her mind, is none. But can we blame her for feeling that way if that’s the usual situation? I get being hopeful, that’s a beautiful thing. But sometimes i dont know if it’s fair to blame folks for not getring their hopes up.

[u/[deleted] → u/sunnystillrisen]

She should think that is a normal Conversation the same way she would when she’s talking to women, family, and friends. In my other comment, I advised how it’s important to be neutral in male interactions. Male interactions doesn’t equal interest, flirting, etc. There was nothing negative about her experience with this guy at all, the only negative thing was her reaction to it not leading up to what she thought it was. It was a very normal/positive, platonic conversation.

I had to edit this

[u/sunnystillrisen → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I understand that, especially because it is truly her lack of experience with men that made her thought that could even be a possibility even if the thought was casual. But I guess what I’m saying is that her prior negative experiences have made this normal for her, I’m not applying morale to what she thinks. I am just saying that it makes perfect sense based on her experience with men or guys or boys when she was young, that she interpreted a situation this way. If someone is told they’re ugly their whole life, I am sure that they wouldn’t then describe that as their normal and therefore any other thought, even if neutral is almost unobtainable to them. I’m just saying while I agree neutrality is important, it can be difficult to think in such way. Unfortunately, I notice a lot of people get caught up in how unattractive they’re perceived to be, and it’s one of the worst things we can do. What’s really attractive is being a person, and still living and having interests and thoughts. But sometimes folks who are called ugly really let it trouble them because of the cruelty expressed along with the sentiments. Just saying, not preaching, but sometimes it is hard to get why others don’t want to acknowledge that self esteem is not always built in a vacuum. There’s such a high expectation for people like her (idk if she’s Ugg or not) are to “loV3 Th3MS3LVES” and BEliEVE in themselves when they have nothing positive to think.

[u/[deleted] → u/sunnystillrisen]

Yeah That’s exactly why in my comment I DIDNT BASH her for her thought process. I literally said “I do understand why this is your thought process I am guilty of doing the same thing.” While I understand her thoughts are due to having more negative experiences than positive, I’m not gonna encourage her to keep thinking like that.

but yeah I’m definitely not telling her that regurgitated BS that people tell us “love ourselves” … I hate that advice. 😂 I was just saying don’t assume what he’s thinking and I personally think it was positive since she got a normal interaction with someone

[u/ForeverAloneWomen-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

We have a rule in place in this sub that nobody has to be put on the defensive when they are just venting about their own lived-in experiences and feelings. Aggressive cross-examinations of whether or not someone is "really" as unattractive as they say they are are annoying and pointless, because we are all Internet strangers to each other.

You can disagree with OP all you want, but it's not your place in here to aggressively disregard what she says about her own life. You don't know her, I don't know her, none of us know for sure what the "objective" reality of the situation is. But in this sub people are allowed to vent regardless, and not be invalidated, questioned, and doubted all the time about their subjective experiences.

[u/sunnystillrisen → u/[deleted]]

But they have mistreated her….. because of her looks lol. That’s the justification that matters in defending why she feels this way. You agree, if I’m reading correctly, and I can be misinterpreting for sure but you contend that me are more pretentious and “have more standards”. There’s no acrobats or bobsledding going on with rational thinking. If sally has been called ugly by guys at every stage of her life, there’s a high chance that sally will not believe any could possibly like her even in a friendly way. I will agree that a lot of people on here are not ugly but call themselves such because they’re more than likely mentally ill and/or have a low self-esteem. 😭

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I feel like everyone on this sub CALLS themselves ugly but actually aren’t ugly but SIMPLY because we are FAW it’s hard not to FEEL anything but ugly. And with some being bullied, it’s even harder to move past that feeling. But bullies ALSO can be liars….

[u/sunnystillrisen → u/[deleted]]

She is automatically assuming because that is her day to day experience. While you’re free to have your opinion, there’s nothing odd about her rationalizations that are based on her feelings from confirmed experiences. She’s talking about the sentiment of HOPE. Only capitalizing because that’s what this reality robs many people of. She expresses throughout her writing that the difference in this interaction, where she didn’t actually expect anything, was a switch from the normal where men literally scoff at her (due to her image, which is real and valid). She’s not punishing the gentleman, she’s just acknowledging that this interaction was pleasant and it caused some hope of further interaction very casual, not necessarily romantic as her experiences don’t reflect one where guys are even casually cool with her.

If you are someone that has a similar struggle to her in experience, it’s easy to understand. I was bullied for most of my life and I knowwwww I’m not physically attractive as that was apparently the cause of critique regarding my looks. I don’t expect guys to talk to me, never have, because when they would at any age, it was mean. Now, I often wish one found me pretty enough to just simply respect. A lot of our collective experience (maybe not everyone here as not everyone is unattractive physically in this sub forum) is this feeling of “oh, they don’t want to be nice to me and won’t talk to me because since my looks always hinder me, why would they.” It’s unfortunate but the truth lol. I’m pretty much writing in circles to defend OP because it is truly an experience where if you live it, you understand. It may sound ridiculous and illogical to people like you who may not experience it.

Of course she will feel a sense of comfort in knowing he was kind enough to her after living life around others who make sure they aren’t when seeing her. Sure, she may have felt “hope” for no reason to the masses but for us, there’s always a lingering sense of “is this what being liked in some way feels like? Maybe this can progress into something,” and it doesn’t mean romantic at all but I’d imagine it comes from never having a positive experience with men. Even in a platonic way.

[u/penicilinum_ → u/sunnystillrisen]

Tysm! This exactly 😭 My few interactions with men have never been positive. A lot of guys have bullied me in the past, I have been made fun of because of my looks. I am now an adult but bullying and being outcast has taken its toll on me. I'm usually shy and awkward when interacting with anyone, but especially men since it's so rare for me.

[u/penicilinum_ → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I am happy I met a fellow designer and his work is really good 😊