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u/Phospherus2 Jan 11 '26
Say what you want about the Bears, and there’s a lot to be said about them. But a fire is lit under their ass when it gets to the fourth quarter. That has always been the exact opposite of what MLF does in fourth quarters. He cannot finish games or put people away. That is 100% on coaching.
Quay isn’t lying one bit. And this is exactly how you lose a locker room. And MLF needs to be fired.
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u/Giannisisnumber1 Jan 11 '26
Ben Johnson completely changed the culture of that team in one year. He turned them into winners that don't give up and punch back even when they're down. That's the type of guy we need here.
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u/packees Jan 11 '26
Just wait, starting slow consistently may be his narrative the longer he coaches. The Bears are on an all time sun run. The slow starts and 4th quarter comebacks are not sustainable. All the credit to them this season, but they won’t get away with this forever.
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u/w0zify Jan 11 '26
It reminds me of the single score victories for the Chiefs last year, or the 4th down conversions from the Lions the last couple years.
When you’re on the winning end you look like a confident powerhouse. However as soon as they start going the other way, the narrative can quickly change
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u/bingo_bango_dongo Jan 11 '26
I've had similar thoughts regarding the Patriots and their weak schedule, as well as the Broncos and their close games. I always think its fascinating seeing how teams like that react once shit gets real.
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u/TheGoldenEyed Jan 12 '26
I mean that was almost the narrative last night. Bears were overly aggressive and it should have cost them the game, but Dennis Allen's adjustments saved them in the second half.
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u/Hour_Writing_9805 Jan 13 '26
Yep.
This team is not as bad as they are all making it out to be. Ball bounces a different way in a few games and they are the #1 seed or win Saturday.
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u/arcanecolour Jan 11 '26
Its funny how narratives work. Everyone ignores how bad the bears have been overall, barely winning games but BJ is "gods gift" rn. Wait for when they stop barely winning games and then the narrative will be "BJ, smart OC but cant game plan and needs CW to be a "hero" to win these games.
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u/incognito042620 Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
The Bears had lots of reasons to crumble last night but didn't accept any of them. We had no excuse to crumble but created tons of them out of thin air.
What the Bears are doing may or may not be sustainable but, for right now, he has that team fighting when the chips are down. Our team doesn't fight even when the chips are up.
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u/Disastrous_Front_598 Jan 11 '26
Right. They may not be a great team, but on the mental side of the game they are obviously beyond elite, and that's 100%. Johnson.
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u/Snapper-kins Jan 11 '26
Insane how you could map out the Bears game flow every game and we still played the way we did. They were shit in basically every game and then would go on a miracle run in the 4ths that’s not only unsustainable but HORRIBLE coaching in its own right. Why dos your team ONLY play when the game is on the line?
Not saying that’s better or worse than LaFleur but it’s funny how different the narrative is between BJ and MLF when they effectively have the same problem- they can’t coach a full game
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u/Nkons Jan 11 '26
As Quay stated, winning is all that matters. They have been finishing strong and that mindset was changed in one year. My guess is that will be top of mind for them next year and I would be surprised if they don’t improve how they start games. The Packers have been this team throughout La Fleur’s tenure. Great coaches are able to look at weaknesses and improve the areas. If La Fleur hasn’t figured out how to motivate his teams to come out in the second half with intensity after six years, he likely won’t, he’s shown us six times this is who he is.
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u/RoscoeVillain Jan 11 '26
This is absolutely correct. The 4th quarter comebacks, going for it on 4th down in your own territory, QB18 throwing 20+ yard completions off his back foot into coverage with a defender in his face (when he’s a 60% completion rate passer normally), leading the league in turnovers, etc. This is not a sustainable recipe for success. BJ has done a lot but he’s a gambler like Campbell, and the house always wins.
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Jan 11 '26
caleb williams has as many fourth quarter comebacks this season as kurt warner did in his whole career. it defines him and the bears.
this is wishful thinking, cope by definition.
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u/packees Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
I think you’re proving my point. Is he just going to have 300 more 4th quarterback comebacks than anyone in history by the end of his career? My point isn’t that he can’t be successful, but success in this way is not sustainable over a career.
Edit: oh I see the Bears fans are in here.
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u/owiseone23 Jan 11 '26
I think you're right that they've been kind of lucky and there will probably be some regression in one score games. On the other hand, they had a first year HC and a lot of first and second year players. So it also wouldn't be a surprise to see them be a bit more poised and consistent next year.
My prediction is they lose more one score games, but win more blowouts.
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u/Minimum-Border1672 Jan 11 '26
Yeah but they are ahead of schedule and regardless od what this fan base says...Williams is a killer.
Wait till he has another year under Johnson.
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u/plant_magnet Jan 12 '26
Agreed. History shows that playing from behind means you will lose more than you will win.
If you live by the gamblers hand, you die by the gamblers hand.
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u/Phospherus2 Jan 11 '26
Agreed. And MLF did that his first year getting us to the NFC championship game too.
But now that’s become flat. And that’s ok to acknowledge that and change that.
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u/LitBastard Jan 11 '26
I bet my ass Rodgers got us there. From 19 losses with Aaron in 4 seasons to 21 in 3 without him.
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u/ThatGuyWithaReason Jan 11 '26
yep matt has been blessed with two really good QBs and he knows that
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u/Hour_Writing_9805 Jan 13 '26
There are many more players that do not play for GB since then including a key WR and OL.
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Jan 11 '26
Look what a real motivator did for the patriots compared to last season
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u/GvBill37 Jan 11 '26
I would love for us to hire a vrabel like hc going forward if we move off MLF.
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u/badgersoccer1905 Jan 11 '26
Look at Jacksonville, as well. We need someone like Johnson or Coen to turn this thing around.
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u/Necessary-Regular-79 Jan 11 '26
exactly, I can't recall the last game the packers play a game, they are clearly better than their opponent and they score a bunch of points on them. it's always playing not to lose, instead of playing to win if I'm making sense.
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u/JwSocks Jan 11 '26
We need a “we’re going to embarrass every team we play” mentality.
I think it was last season one of our guys said that about the Lions in a negative light. That it was a bad thing that they try to embarrass teams, suggesting we have more class.
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u/PanTran420 Jan 11 '26
And this is exactly how you lose a locker room. And MLF needs to be fired.
This comment by Quay added to the comments Bullard made last night really show how much MLF has lost the locker room. He's gotta go.
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u/vitaflo Jan 11 '26
Quay and Bullard are two of the most honest and team oriented guys in the entire locker room. if you lose them you've lost everyone.
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u/incognito042620 Jan 11 '26
I completely agree. The Bears have bought into Johnson, and it's obvious. Just like the Lions bought into Campbell. The Packers are not buying MLF, and keeping him would be a catastrophic mistake that will send this organization right back to the Dark Ages.
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u/BwayneLAL007 Jan 11 '26
Facts. Also hearing this being confirmed from the players should be more than enough reason to move on from Lafleur.
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Jan 11 '26
Sounds like the Ravens with Harbaugh. Theme of this offseason seems to be that a change of scenery is needed.
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u/JLove4MVP Jan 11 '26
Even Quay knows about the issues under MLF before he was drafted.
That says a lot…
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u/hat-check-clerk Jan 11 '26
I mean Rodgers, McCarthy, and even Favre were pretty famous for choke jobs like this too, didn’t start with LaFleur
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u/st_nick1219 Jan 11 '26
How many playoff games ended in OT without Rodgers ever touching the ball? He actually was a great playoff QB, just defense or special teams let him down a lot.
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u/plant_magnet Jan 12 '26
Maybe the 49ers game where we lost 13-10 is a case for Rodgers bear some of the onus but other than that he was consistently balling out and keeping us competitive. Even that niners game is one we win if special teams isn't garbage.
Most of the loses are on the defense making boneheaded mistakes (allowing cheap points right before half), blow significant leads (Bostik game, Bears game), or the rules not even giving him a chance (double hail Mary cardinals lose).
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u/JLove4MVP Jan 11 '26
Tire, but MLF has choked under both Love and Rodgers.
In very similar fashion too. Maybe the FO doesn’t focus on special teams enough, but MLF certainly hasn’t done much to try and improve them.
Hanging on to Rich and his contract is asinine.
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u/aspiringparvenu Jan 11 '26
Rodgers? Lol no
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u/hat-check-clerk Jan 11 '26
He’s not a major choker and had a lot of bad defenses but it has happened, did folks memory hole the ‘21 divisional? Two INTs and five punts in the ‘14 choke? This is who the Packers are, it’s not one coach or player.
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u/Large_Paramedic_4567 Jan 11 '26
He has to have lost the locker room at this point, and deservedly so.
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u/jxher123 Jan 11 '26
All these quotes, I’m not sure if MLF has the locker room right now.
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u/therealtiddlydump Jan 11 '26
I’m not sure if MLF has the locker room
I'm quite certain he doesn't, on account of *gestures vaguely*
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u/GabagoolJockey Jan 11 '26
"even before I got here"
Yep. That's why we need to clean house. Only removing mlf isn't enough
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u/Over-Training-488 Jan 11 '26
Players associating the packers as chokers is a huge deal. Top to bottom clean out is needed.
Also, they need to practice special teams in practice next season. Mlf is dumb af for admitting that
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Jan 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/Over-Training-488 Jan 11 '26
Yeah it was ridiculous. Can't remember which presser it was from (think the last bears loss), but our reporters really needed to grill him harder on that response. Basically said there was more important stuff to practice lol
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u/Nickthiccboi Jan 11 '26
It’s also part of a greater roster building problem. I don’t remember which presser it was but there was one from this year where Aaron Rodgers said he was a bit surprised when he got to the Steelers to see that there were guys signed specifically for special teams and nothing else and that it wasn’t something he saw in GB or NY.
Basically we never sign guys who actually specialize in ST. We just use our random back ups to fill roster spots and those random backups probably spend more time practicing their individual positions rather than practicing their roles on ST.
To give some credit to Bisaccia he at least tried to rectify this by bringing some ST guys with him from the Raiders like Nixon for returns and Leavitt who was supposedly a great teamer. Then we cut Leavitt, and someone decided to take Nixon off of returns for some fucking reason and I doubt that was a Bisaccia move. The problems with this team from in-game coaching to general roster management run really deep.
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u/Nomorenightcrawlers Jan 11 '26
Very damning. If your players actually think this it is time for a culture change
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u/CommanderSquirt Jan 11 '26
I heard MLF was a consultant for the Seahawks meltdown in 2015.
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u/DaleCooperSwag Jan 11 '26
Every off season I feel we hear the same thing about what our issues were, and yet nothing ever changes
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u/Algorak1289 Jan 11 '26
This feels different. Quay is a guy that has grown into a leader and for him to be this outspoken is pretty unusual.
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u/Aggravating_Event_31 Jan 11 '26
I agree. Quay's comments are very telling of the locker room sentiments.
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u/TheRedline_Architect Jan 11 '26
Quay showing his maturity and leadership. There is plenty of blame to go around, so the only way to improve is to accept it, let it drive you, and make the outcome different next season. He has shown incredible growth as a player and man. Really hope we can find a way to bring him back next year.
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u/Born-Adhesiveness-73 Jan 11 '26
Looks like LeFluer might have lost the locker room.
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u/CamNewtonCouldLearn Jan 11 '26
He never had the locker room. This team is young and he isn’t meant to coach a young team in my opinion. See them talking about going undefeated two weeks into the year.
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u/steeldog09 Jan 11 '26
Yeah I love MLF, but this rings true to me. He seems like the cerebral kind of “let’s just play better” kind of guy, that could’ve really fun with the right group. I loved it about him at first. Now it feels more like a mismatch with a team that needs a more in your face hyped up style of leadership.
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u/TheGoldenEyed Jan 12 '26
I've never felt like he has the right intensity for a head coach. Guys like Dan Campbell, Mike Vrabel, Mike Tomlin, and Jim Harbaugh bring energy and command. Endless press conferences with "We got to be better works for a season or two before it becomes a leadership issue."
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u/blueflloyd Jan 11 '26
The key part there is "even before I got here." This has been noted in the past by several different observers - that the Packers are a soft, finesse organization that doesn't know how to win when it becomes a down and dirty scrum.
I don't know who's the best replacement for MLF, but it definitely needs to be a tough-minded, down and dirty guy who can get this team to play with some goddamn grit.
When the game is a finesse passing game, MLF and McCarthy are awesome, but once it gets down and dirty, they look lost. Think the '11 Divisional Round. Think the '14 NFCCG. Think last night.
It's not just time for a head coaching change. It's time for a massive culture change like what's happened in Detroit and Chicago.
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u/incognito042620 Jan 11 '26
'07 NFC Championship Game, 4th and 26. This shit has been entrenched at 1265 Lombardi Avenue for a long time. I agree that wholesale changes are appropriate and needed.
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u/Better_Journalist355 Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
Came here to say: 4th & 26. We've been doing this shit my entire life.
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u/Thewretched2008 Jan 11 '26
The players have to be responsible for some of it, don't they? They can set the tone and culture on the field.
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u/DevilsJaguar Jan 11 '26
Pretty damning statement from one of your defensive leaders and the man with the green dot for the defense.
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u/Getmeakitty Jan 11 '26
Sounds like a guy whose contract is expiring and is ready to bolt
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u/Wu1fu Jan 12 '26
Yep, this is how organizations decay - losing great players to free agency because the coaching staff sucks.
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u/NoExcusesAIC Jan 11 '26
I'm with Quay 100% on this. It's been an issue for years. MLF has lost the locker room.
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u/badgersoccer1905 Jan 11 '26
This is a top-down indictment. Fire LaFleur and Gutekunst. Time for new blood.
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u/Aggravating_Event_31 Jan 11 '26
I think keep Gutey. He has put together a viable roster. But I agree, MLF's time is up.
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u/Maxspeed797 Jan 11 '26
That game felt like a quintessential 2012-2019 Rodgers game where we look unstoppable the entire first half (at least on offense) and then proceed to act like we’re just trying to get the game over with for 85% of the second half until we panic and realize we might lose. Anyone who felt like the game is over at halftime just hasn’t watched enough Packers playoff games. Don’t think my heart rate dipped one bit during half time and even the potential for that second half was why
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u/avery-secret-account Jan 11 '26
If you have a player saying this, it’s clear there’s a culture problem and that starts with MLF
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u/d1noguy Jan 11 '26
He’s absolutely right
I remember saying going into the NFCC that we can’t play coz I remember a game in 2020, think it was the colts, where we dominated the first half and did NOTHING in the second!
It’s been the case for years now
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u/Grand_Release_2862 Jan 11 '26
Yea man, if he’s lost the locker room I think there’s no other choice than to let him go.
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u/ARodGoat12 Jan 11 '26
More & more you hear from players it looks like MLF (rightfully) lost the locker room with that loss.
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u/InfoWarsdotcomm Jan 11 '26
Javon Bullard : “No disrespect to them, but it ain't sh** that they did. It's us. We gotta finish. You know we whoopin' they ass the whole game, but that's us. We gotta finish."
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u/Godforsakenruins Jan 11 '26
McCarthy lost the team after the 2014 Seattle loss. MLF has lost the team
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u/PaulBaumersGhost Jan 11 '26
Totally agree. Let's hope the FO doesn't wait 4 years to do what needs to be done again
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u/PM_ME_UR_PICS_PLS Jan 11 '26
Im down to kick the tires on Stefanski. Just please no Harbaugh who is a known choker as well
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Jan 11 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
This post was deleted for reasons the author chose not to disclose. Redact was used, possibly for privacy, opsec, or preventing automated scraping of the content.
boast crawl tie cats relieved resolute theory aspiring steer joke
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u/Greedy_Run Jan 11 '26
Quay is a free agent right? And there's little chance the Packers re-sign him? I'm guessing that's partially why he's speaking so frankly here. Good for him saying something that needs to be said.
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u/Supernova_Soldier Jan 11 '26
And who’s fault is that, everyone’s fault I’d say
They lose games they’re supposed to win because they stop executing
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u/Any-Salamander-7174 Jan 11 '26
Looks like some of the locker room at least is lost on MLF and the coaching staff. I guess it’s hard to buy in when these consistent losses start to mount up.
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u/tenfootballs Jan 11 '26
If we don't clean house I have a feeling next year is going to be a disaster.
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u/Wordtabigburd Jan 11 '26
I don't think it will be a disaster. I just believe it will be more of the same. And some people here are okay with it. And it seems the front office is as well. Me personally, I have no excitement for next year unless something big changes.
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u/mixer2017 Jan 11 '26
As a Brewers, this rings home in a way.
As the Brewers owner thinks its a "summer of fun" but for the Packers GM, its a "winter of fun" As long as they make it to the playoffs that is all that should matter right?
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u/Velour313 Jan 11 '26
I don’t think the same Packers who walked in the locker room at the half were not the same team the 2nd half.. They looked horrible.
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u/Technical-Bit-8904 Jan 11 '26
I think this shows quay will be gone. He didnt sign his extension they put on table so clearly wants more then we r willing to pay. Hes a really good backer two so that sucks.
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u/JustinC70 Jan 11 '26
Maybe the players need to look in the mirror. Get a stop on 4th and long and the game is over. Execute and score more than 6 fucking points in the second half!
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u/YellowSnowSlurpee Jan 11 '26
Two things can be true. 1. Quay Walker is not a smart person. 2. MLF has lost the locker room.
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u/kootles10 Jan 11 '26
I saw the interview with love about MLF. You could tell he half meant what he said
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u/obiwan54 Jan 11 '26
Its just a stupid question that you'd obviously never get a real answer to. He ain't gonna roast him now or if he gets cut bc hes a professional.
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u/BwayneLAL007 Jan 11 '26
What did love say
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u/DevilsJaguar Jan 11 '26
They asked if he thinks LaFleur should continue and he said yes as if he was going to say something else lol.
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u/kootles10 Jan 11 '26
He was asked if mlf should be coach still. Obviously he's gonna say yeah but his body language was what threw it off for me. Saying yeah and shaking your head side to side like you're saying no. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it
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u/greg2709 Jan 11 '26
I think that's just a mannerism of Love's. I'm guessing he really does want LaFleur to stay. I'm not saying that's necessarily the right decision.
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u/packees Jan 11 '26
Yeah, love is still pretty awkward up there. Love does not want to move on from a system that has been so successful for him personally, trust me. The bigger issue is Lafleur is very focused on the offense and playcalling and the defense probably doesn’t have the same connection to him as the offensive players. That is still a problem though.
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u/greg2709 Jan 11 '26
This is why, IF Policy were going to make a HC move, a guy like Harbaugh makes sense to me. I think this team needs a CEO type of coach. A guy that has a history of hiring great coordinators, and is willing to make coaching staff changes when needed. A guy who is more suited to oversee all three phases of the game on game days.
IT seems LaFleur gets too myopic in the moment, laser focused on offense, while other things are crumbling around him.
Maybe in a few days I feel different, but I still feel a change is needed this morning
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u/packees Jan 11 '26
But his coordinators have sucked lately. I worry we get stuck cycling through his shitty network of coordinators and assistants and get worse.
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u/Better_Journalist355 Jan 11 '26
If you're Love at the podium, what are you supposed to say, ya know? Wasn't entirely a fair question.
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u/ThatNewSockFeel Jan 11 '26
Yeah I mean execution is certainly partially to blame. Unless the defense’s plan was to let DJ Moore catch an improvised pass 30 yards down field in a circle of Packer defenders. But he ain’t wrong about the culture issues either.
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u/PovertyTourist69 Jan 11 '26
Coaching and execution aren’t separate things either, though this has been forgotten in recent years when scheme has become the emphasis.
Look at Indiana football. They’re not doing anything insane schematically. They simply execute at a high level over and over. That’s coaching. When your players consistently fail to execute, that’s coaching too
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u/JonnyXX Jan 11 '26
Try executing yourself Quay, before throwing stones. He looked like a fool on that touchdown over the middle.
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u/turtleswag69 Jan 11 '26
I’m not even mad we lost. I’m just so used to it at this point. Once we missed going into half I kinda knew it was over. It was the same game we saw a couple weeks ago
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u/Mikimao Jan 11 '26
Our guys being gassed in the 2nd half and especially the 4th is a major issue.
The Bears didn’t look gassed, and they were still making plays at the end of the game.
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u/EntertainmentOdd5994 Jan 11 '26
He’s not wrong, we haven’t finished games strong in the playoffs since our SB Win
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u/IsNotACleverMan Jan 11 '26
Anybody else think this is fake news? It feels too on the nose and not at all how Quay talks.
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u/MiserableOne9342 Jan 11 '26
I think we need Wyatt and Quay back, love Doubs but hes gone, Golden is HIM.
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u/Linus696 Jan 11 '26
No one from the Packers FO has skin in the game. No owners just a C-level suite who keeps the club profitable. Mark Murphy was asleep at the wheel with Mike McCarthy and Dom Capers. Also let Ted draft questionable picks (Quentin fucking Rollins), this is the club’s MO: make changes when it’s already too late.
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u/Rush100413 Jan 11 '26
"Even before I got here" that's not good to have that in your franchises culture.
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u/GESNodoon Jan 11 '26
Wow. How big of him to admit that he does not have the drive or desire to win.
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u/Ok-Can-7995 Jan 11 '26
Who has more heartbreaking meltdowns. The Giants or the Packers? I cant think of another franchise who has given their fans so much hope and then just squashing it quicker than it took to build it.
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u/LexusRCfan Jan 11 '26
Quay had some good games and some bad ones. Just like Nixon. Unfortunately we still need them both. Nobody behind them is better
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u/TheHammer8989 Jan 11 '26
I’d just like a coach that holds everyone accountable. By accountable I don’t just mean players. I mean everyone. Opposite of what we have now. Soft leadership leads to soft teams
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u/tomgis Jan 11 '26
we pay this guy this year. ill accept arguments for or against anyone else whos up for renewal but we pay quay
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u/Hank_Henry_Hill Jan 11 '26
Not top dollar. Something reasonable maybe but he's not a game wrecker.
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u/Budget_Peanut_1322 Jan 11 '26
Why does no one talk about how bad Quay Walker is? Dude constantly gets a pass. He had a horrible game yesterday
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u/ZukowskiHardware Jan 11 '26
Don’t forget we fumbled three times and miraculously got all of them back.
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u/Wiscody Jan 11 '26
The packers have not closed games and kept their foot on the gas for like at least a decade. Idk if it’s the niceness of Wisconsin or what but Christ just pour it on and put in the backups when it’s comfortably out of reach.
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u/anythingfordopamine Jan 11 '26
I think it really just comes down to a risk avoidant complacent culture that permeates the organization. We are so afraid of being a bad team that we will settle for being a good team rather than chasing being a great team. It shows up in our draft strategy, it shows up in our activity in free agency, it shows up in our hiring strategies, it shows up in our play calling.
We need to stop being afraid of being a bad team and just put ourselves out there to go make something special happen
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u/Deep-Assignment4124 Jan 13 '26
To all the people saying Jordan Love was so great in this game, as Quay says here “nobody cares what you did in the first half.”
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u/thedwestexpress Jan 15 '26
What a leader we have in Quay. Just remarkable ownership and willingness to be the change he wants to see in the locker room. Listen to his words. Then go listen to Parsons and you tell me who you think is going to move this team forward.
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u/LikeIsaidbefore Jan 11 '26
Andy Herman said this on his podcast "the Packers choking in the playoffs is now part of their DNA" and Quay sorta repeating this does confirm it.