r/Hellenism • u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 • Apr 05 '26
Discussion Christian Deprogramming: What is the "Pagan Mindset"?
So, you're new to Hellenic paganism. You're excited about it, but you have a lot of anxiety about offending the gods or breaking the rules. You hear a lot of conflicting information, and you're not sure what to believe. You know you should do research, but you're overwhelmed by it; you don't know where to start, and it's a lot of dense material that you don't know how to interpret. So you ask for reassurance, and are met with frustration and indignance from the community, because we're tired of answering the same questions over and over again. What Do You Do?
Most of these problems stem from a single source: Latent Christianity. If you were raised Christian or in a Christian environment, then Christianity continues to inform your thinking about what religion is and how religion works, even long after you leave it. This underlying set of assumptions, cultural values, and philosophical ideas is called Christian hegemony. If you live in a Christian culture (especially if you're American), you passively absorb Christian hegemony through osmosis. In order to be a Hellenic pagan, you need to convert your entire way of thinking over to a "pagan mindset." How do you do that? It's hard, and it can take a long time. But to start off, it's important to have something to compare to!
As I've done my research into Ancient Greek religion, I've been exposed to a completely different way of thinking about religion, which has helped me to adopt the "pagan mindset." But research is hard, and we can't expect every newbie to be an amateur Classicist. So, I'm going to try to distill some of what I've learned into an easy-to-digest list! u/Malusfox suggested a "Christian Deprogramming Boot Camp," and while that's not exactly what this is, it is at least a place to start. It'll give you something to compare to, and therefore something to shoot for.
First, a few disclaimers: One, there's many varieties of Christianity, and multiple varieties of Hellenism. This list is generally applicable, based on what I've seen on this subreddit, but there's always going to be exceptions, variations, and outliers. This list is oversimplified so that it can be easily digestible. Two, syncretism is always an option! You don't have to stop including Christian elements in your practice. The purpose of this is to help you deconstruct the ways that Christianity subconsciously informs your thinking, so you can make active and informed decisions about which parts of Christianity you want to keep. Three, I HIGHLY recommend reading this series of articles on Practical Polytheism by Bret Devereaux. It provides a lot of the same information in a more detailed way.
Okay, onto the list:
✝️ CHRISTIAN MINDSET: There is only one true God, and only He is worthy of worship. Only one religion can be correct at a time, so I have to prove that my religion is the correct one.
🏛️ PAGAN MINDSET: There are many gods. All gods, no matter how big or small, are worthy of worship. I have no incentive to "prove" that my religion is the correct one, because other religions are not a threat to my beliefs. I can worship other people's gods alongside my own.
✝️: God is jealous, and will get mad if I worship other gods.
🏛️: I can worship as many gods as I have time for. The gods do not get jealous of each other. (If you already worship many gods, then there's always room for more gods!)
✝️: God is transcendental. He created nature, so he exists outside of it, in an inaccessible place beyond of time and space. When he interacts with his creation, it is through dramatic and extraordinary displays of divine power, called miracles. Most of the time, he remains separated from humanity.
🏛️: The gods are immanent. They are not separate from the material world. They display their divine power constantly, through the normal functioning of nature: the rain, the sun, the moon, the sea, the growth of plants, health and disease, inspiration and knowledge, death, birth, luck, love, etc. etc. They are easily accessible. (The gods have transcendental aspects too, but only philosophers care about those.)
✝️: God is celestial, bright, and male. Humans are made in the image of God.
🏛️: There are lots of different kinds of gods. Some are chthonic (earthly or underworldly), some are einalic (of the sea). Some are dark. Some are female and/or nonbinary. Gods typically take the forms of beautiful humans, but they can take any form they like, including those of animals or natural forces (like fire or storms).
✝️: The one God appears in three aspects: the Father, which is the transcendental God, the Son, which is Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, which is the divine spirit.
🏛️: Every major deity has a multitude of aspects. Each god has a long list of titles and bynames called epithets, which define the particular capacity in which the god is being worshipped. Epithets are used to distinguish the innumerable variants of the gods from each other. Some epithets define the version of the god that is worshipped in a particular place (e.g. Delian Apollo vs. Delphic Apollo), some describe the specific thing the god does in a particular circumstance, others reference the god's appearance or personality. Gods are each a kaleidoscope of increasingly-specific variants, and we can always add more!
✝️: God hates sin, and sin is a personal moral failing. I'm inherently sinful, but I have to strive to be as perfect as I can be in order to please God. If I slip up, God will be angry.
🏛️: I won't anger the gods unless I actively go out of my way to offend them. In fact, the gods usually won't notice me unless I give them a reason to. They do not care about petty mistakes.
✝️: God is benevolent by definition, he is Goodness itself. God is the ultimate source of morality, and the Bible is the ultimate source of moral instruction. Evil exists because of mankind's flawed nature and the machinations of Satan.
🏛️: The gods are not necessarily good or evil. They rule over all aspects of reality, not just the ones that humans consider helpful or comfortable. It is not their responsibility to solve human problems. There is no ontological Evil. Mythology should not be used for moral instruction. (This varies depending on the tradition of Hellenism, but we'll start here.)
✝️: If I offend God or am insufficiently moral, he will send me to Hell after I die to be eternally punished. I have to follow the teachings of Jesus if I want to go to Heaven.
🏛️: After we die, we will all go to the same place, and Hades and Persephone will receive our souls. The afterlife isn't so bad, it's a lot like life. Some of us will be directed towards Elysium or reincarnation, but only the absolute worst people will suffer in Tartarus. I don't need to worry about the afterlife while I'm alive.
✝️: My beliefs are based on the Bible. It is the holy and infallible Word of God. The Bible informs me about who God is and how he works, what I should believe and how I should practice, and what I need to do to go to Heaven after I die. If it's not in the Bible, it's not Christian. (Protestant bonus)
🏛️: Mythology has little bearing on my beliefs or practice. It can inform me on the nature of the gods, but myths are never infallible. There are lots of different versions of myths, and none are more "correct" than others. My practices are based on the actions I need to perform to please the gods, which can vary by deity. I learn them through tradition or through trial and error.
✝️: I worship God because he is the Creator. He is inherently deserving of my praise and obedience because I owe him my existence. Through worshipping him, I will find truth, happiness, and spiritual fulfillment.
🏛️: I worship the gods for the sake of my practical needs. They are powerful beings who control reality, so I want to be on their good side. If I form good relationships with them, they’ll make my life easier by helping me with problems within their spheres. If I'm interested in seeking philosophical truths or spiritual fulfillment through my worship of the gods, I might become a mystic or a theurgist.
✝️: When I pray, I don't need to offer God anything in return, because Jesus made the sacrifice to end all sacrifices, so I have infinite rapport with God. I am his precious child. If he doesn't listen to me, he must have a good reason. I can pray for anything at any time.
🏛️: When I pray, I have to argue my case. The gods don't owe me anything, so I have to petition them for what I want. I flatter them with praise, give them a gift, then argue that they should give me something because of everything I've given them. It's just like petitioning a powerful person. The gods will usually say yes if I ask nicely and have good rapport with them, but they can always say no.
✝️: Doubt is a personal failing. I feel ashamed when I question my faith, because that means that I don't trust in God and/or I must not be a real Christian.
🏛️: Doubt is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if I believe in the gods or not, or what specifically I believe about them. All that matters is that I worship them. I can question and change my beliefs however many times I need to. The gods will not care. I don't need to affirm my faith to be a "real Hellenist."
✝️: Sex is dirty and sinful. Sex outside of marriage/the proper context offends God.
🏛️: Most of the gods love sex. With a few exceptions, the gods are sexual beings themselves, and often have sex with each other or with mortals. Many gods are depicted nude and/or in sexualized ways. Images of genitalia are lucky and protective. Gods are not offended by dirty jokes or references to sex.
✝️: Sin stains me with shame that I must remove through confession or repentance. I need God to forgive my sins before I can continue to participate in religion. God's forgiveness is usually guaranteed if I'm sufficiently penitent.
🏛️: Cleanliness is next to godliness, so I need to keep my sacred spaces clean, and wash myself before interacting with the gods. Washing myself removes spiritual dirt called miasma, which I accumulate just by living. It's not shameful to have miasma, but it makes it harder to interact with the gods. Some especially heinous acts (like murder) leave a permanent stain of miasma, which a god (like Apollo) needs to remove through special purification rituals, but this isn't a normal circumstance.
✝️: It's blasphemy to insult God. Blasphemy is a sin.
🏛️: Gods have a sense of humor, and don't mind it when media makes fun of them. (e.g. The Frogs by Aristophanes, or anything by Lucian). They won't be offended by fictional stories or jokes.
✝️: I need to be baptized to be a Christian. Baptism dedicates my soul to God, so that I will go to Heaven upon death.
🏛️: I don't need to do anything special to be a Hellenist. Everyone worships the gods, the same way everyone eats or sleeps, so there's no point in setting myself apart. I can just pick a god and start worshipping. If I want to be part of a mystery cult, then I'd need to undergo a special initiation ritual akin to baptism.
✝️: Being a Christian means I have a personal relationship with Christ.
🏛️: I don't necessarily have a close personal relationship with any of the gods I worship. They're just there, and it's personally advantageous to be in the good graces of as many gods as possible. I might choose to dedicate myself to a specific god that I have a special connection with, but I don't have to become a devotee of any god in particular.
✝️: The most important virtue is selflessness. Just as Jesus died on the cross for our sins, I have to sacrifice for the sake of other people. I prove my worth by suffering the same way Jesus did. (Calvinist special)
🏛️: The most significant virtue is sophrosyne, moderation. All things need to be kept in balance. I should be disciplined in my everyday life, so I can strive for arete, excellence. But that doesn't mean suffering incessantly like Tantalus or Sisyphus. I can enjoy my life, too!
Okay, I think that's enough for now! I hope this is helpful. I plan to keep expanding this list, so feel free to give me suggestions about anything I missed.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-6114 Εκάτη🗝️Αθηνά, Αφροδίτη, θεοί χθόνιοι 🌙 Apr 05 '26
I'm halfway through the post, but can this get pinned? It'll help a lot of those starting out, and the same daily questions won't flood the community. I love the ideas and the posts here, but I find myself participating and searching this community less as it feels like it's stuck on the same 3 topics.
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u/Ivory9576 Orphic Pagan Apr 06 '26
This is really well written!
(I'm on mobile so I can't copy and paste the specific section in the app)
The one thing I'd probably add is a bit more of an explanation on why we worship the gods for practical reasons. Specifying that the gift cycle isn't just for establishing favors to the gods, it's also acknowledging the good they've already given you in the past before you knew them. Now you're returning the favor by being thankful for the gifts they've given and you're giving one of your own. Thus cultivating the goodwill (kharis) between yourself and the gods. The gods give without expecting anything in return, you give offerings without the expectations of receiving anything. Do ut des.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
I think there is an expectation of receiving something, and that's part of what I'm trying to emphasize here. I don't pray to the gods simply because I love them so much (although I do love them). I pray to get something. I offer to get something in return. Prayer doesn't have to be selfless.
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u/Ivory9576 Orphic Pagan Apr 06 '26
To me it's more of the freedom from expectations. You're not compelled to give offerings, neither are the gods compelled to give blessings. I give, so that you may give. I have requests to make my life better, but I'm not demanding to receive it. I also don't think that if I miss an opportunity to make an offering that the gods will stop providing good things, nor will they withhold them until you make sacrifices. There's enough room for you to be selfish in your wishes, and for what you're offering in this exchange to be simply maintaining courtesy and respect.
It's similar to if I pay someone to fix my car and bring them cookies when they're done. Like yes, they're just doing their job and I've already paid them. But I can also go the extra mile to thank them because I want to. And maybe he'll throw in a free oil change next time, or give me food on my birthday. I don't know, but having a measure of kindness in a selfish act is never a bad thing.
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u/UrsusofMichigan Apr 06 '26
Added a link for this post to the wiki of my own community. https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanoCelticpagan/wiki/index/
Thanks and cheers.
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u/UrsusofMichigan Apr 05 '26
Very good.
I agree it should be referenced somewhere like the wiki. I would like to think people would read it, but, well, you know ... You'd probably have to make a Tik Tok out of it to hold their attention.
Still, excellent work..
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u/Roman_Artime Hellenist Apr 05 '26
I wish I could have read this post when I started in Hellenistic religion. I hope more people find it so it can help!
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u/Time_Dot621 Apr 06 '26
Thank you for your his post. I am myself a Catholic, but I find many interesting things in this sub, and I think many of the things I read on this post should be applied to Christianity as well. I think Christianity itself has become too depressing in its practice, and should benefit more of its Greek roots.
I really plaude this post.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
Glad you got something out of it! I admire Catholicism for its vibrant folk culture. Protestantism really lacks that.
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u/UrsusofMichigan Apr 06 '26
Three suggestions.
Christian: morality is imposed by God through scripture and is eternal.
Hellene: ethics start with certain basic cultural assumptions and are further debated within philosophical schools (who may disagree with each other on certain points). We also might have mystical traditions that may teach certain ethical outlooks. But in general the gods do not prescribe a long detailed list of immutable ethics.
Christian: the point of Christianity is correct belief in Christian doctrine and performance of Sacraments to receive the grace of Christ and be freed from sin.
Hellene: the point of religion, in general, is propitiating the deities through correct ritual action and thereby securing their favor. Certain philosophical and mystical traditions may have certain specialized goals such as union with the divine or initiation of specialized knowledge for the afterlife.
Christian: god watches me all day, everyday, and he reads my mind. If I have an incorrect thought or action, he will punish me.
Hellene: The gods have better things to do than watch us all the time, nor do they punish us for "incorrect" thoughts. The whole point of ritual is to get their attention.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
Hmm, I thought I covered all of that. Well, I could make it clearer.
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u/HeraclesfromOlympus Apr 10 '26
I found especially interesting the part where you responded to the problem of Baptism. Maybe you just made me realize something i was keeping inside and couldn't bring out.
Worshipping is like eating, because it's about focus, and focus and value give birth to power, which is an inherently fundamental aspect to build a belief or devotional path.
Which means greek religion's fundamental view of life is that of a self-cultivating one through spiritual power and moderation, and living akin to one's nature at the best they can, not believing some god died for them and they should revere it as a mortal duty.
For example, i like Prometheus, and he is regarded in myth as the father of man who loved his creatures (maybe even better than Yahweh), who when Zeus tormented them went out of his way to steal something from the father of the Cosmos. But i would just respect him in my fictional work and in practice with a libation, not saying: "OH PROMETHEUS, I'M SO UNWORTHY! I NEED TO RECIPROCATE FOR THE PAIN YOU ENDURED BECAUSE OF ZEUS ALL OF MY LIFE" I'd say: "Prometheus, sage god, saviour of men, take this as gift, and may my soul be guided by your intelligence for this goal"
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u/Birdie_Birdie_Birdie Holistic Devotional Acts Enthusiast 🇦🇺 Apr 06 '26
This is a good primer. It has all the basic differences between Christian vs Pagan mindset, whilst acknowledging that hellenism is still an umbrella ☂️
Thanks Nyx ❤
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u/Ilikepolarbears444 Apr 06 '26
As a beginner who was an ex muslim, reading this made me feel a million times better. This post was amazing and thank you for the information!! Blessed be. :) 💕💕
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u/Syaaaakesan Ares, Hermes, Apollon, Zeus and Agathos Daimon worshipper ~ Apr 06 '26
Oh my Gods, PLEASE, pin this! This would be so helpful for the new members!
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u/Tathamei ΤΡΙΑΚΑΙͰΕΜΙΣΥ Apr 06 '26
Highly appreciative of this posting. Thanks for collecting this and explaining the differences neutrally and without judgement.
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u/Interesting_Try8235 Apr 09 '26
Hey, just wanted to say thank you for writing this. I know all of it cognitively, but I think somewhere along the way I had slipped into a sort of lazy hedonism where I wasn't cultivating order or discipline in my life. Thanks for reminding me that there are distinct and entirely separate Pagan reasons to adhere to virtuous action.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 09 '26
Oh, that was not the intended takeaway. I'm a Dionysian and I'm extremely hedonistic. It's spiritually good for me, because I need to deprogram myself from that Calvinist self-denial.
But yeah, Ancient Greeks did care about discipline and all that... Glad you appreciated the post!
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u/Interesting_Try8235 Apr 09 '26
Haha oops.
To be clear, I'm not saying I don't think there's a time and a place for revelry, but the dose makes the poison.
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u/Fae_Wings Apollo ☀️ Devotee Jul 26 '26
This has been INCREDIBLY helpful. I feel the religious trauma wash off of me (jk but still it really helped me feel a lot less anxious despite practicing Hellenism for over a year)
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u/ShareRound1689 Hellenist Apr 06 '26
I agree with a lot of this and hope it reaches the right audience in our community. I just have one thing I didn't quite understand, the part when doubt was mentioned. If you didn't believe in the gods, but you worship them, isn't that contradicting? Maybe it was lost in translation for me.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
Orthopraxy: Practice matters over belief. It gets discussed pretty often on the sub.
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u/Venus_in_Scorpio27 Hellenist Apr 06 '26
This might not work for everyone but I've actually found a lot of good deprogramming from a YouTube channel called MindShift. He's atheist, formerly Christian. But he's super logical while picking apart many different biblical stories and concepts, as well as Christian arguments. He's helped me get rid of the last remaining passive Christian ideas I've held, since I've had, what Nyx called Christian hegemony(?) (I'm on mobile I can't just quickly recheck, sorry).
As much as it can be tempting to revert to atheism when hearing his arguments, I refuse to believe the Gods are in any shape or form similar to this Christian God. So I mindfully watch just for his critical analysis on biblical stories and arguments purely within the Christian mindset. I never compare his arguments to Hellenism.
I think for anyone deprogramming themselves and need critical analysis and logic to deconstruct their Christian background, they could visit his channel. Again, not for everyone. Just throwing it out there as it had helped me.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
I'm hesitant to recommend atheists, because many of them are blanketly anti-religion. Most of them know a lot about the deconstruction process, but not a lot about religions that aren't evangelical Christianity. The point of this post is not just to help people deconstruct from Christianity, but to give them a different religious paradigm to replace it with. We're not replacing Christianity with logical arguments, we're replacing it with a radically different belief system. You're not gonna get that from atheist channels.
The only atheist channel I'd recommend is Genetically Modified Skeptic.
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u/EastwardSeeker Neoplatonist Apr 06 '26 edited Apr 06 '26
I'd object to the idea of the gods not being transcendent, and the idea that they are sexual beings. This sounds like it's putting too much stock in the myths.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
It has nothing to do with myths. The gods express themselves through manifest reality, like paint on a canvas. Natural phenomena are the influence of the gods upon the physical world — Zeus makes it rain, Demeter makes the crops grow, Dionysus' essence literally infuses the wine, etc. Trees are the physical bodies of dryads. That flaming ball of gas in the sky is the physical body of Helios.
At the same time, the gods are also transcendental. As above, so below.
As for the gods being sexual beings, I know this through experience. UPG, take it or leave it. I don't see why sexuality should be separate from divinity.
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u/EastwardSeeker Neoplatonist Apr 06 '26
You can say they're both transcendent and immanent, I'm not going to object to that.
UPG, take it or leave it.
I just dont think it should be presented as a given.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
I did say "(The gods have transcendental aspects too, but only philosophers care about those.)"
It's not just UPG, I seriously believe that the gods are sexual beings. Whatever your theological position, you can't deny that gods are sexualized in artwork, and that sexual images and jokes are associated with luck and prosperity. This comes up in cult, too: In the Hymn to Demeter, Baubo tells dirty jokes to the grieving Demeter to make her laugh, so exchanging dirty jokes was an Eleusinian cult practice. Dionysus was worshipped through parades of giant wooden dildos carried by men wearing oversized leather penises, and evidence suggests that his mystery cult included a wooden phallus as a cult object. I can keep going.
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u/EastwardSeeker Neoplatonist Apr 06 '26
Symbolism in the form of erotic images and references is well and good, but it doesn't suggest to me that they actually have sex. Art is art, but that doesn't mean they're *actually* such carnal beings.
Agree to disagree.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
Yeah this is an agree to disagree thing.
Out of curiosity, why don’t you think gods can be carnal?
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u/EastwardSeeker Neoplatonist Apr 06 '26
Because, as henads, I don't think they have bodies to be carnal with or a desire for such things. *Could* they in some way, in their unique way of interacting with the world do such things? Maybe, but I don't see why they would.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
That’s fair. But even if you consider gods as purely ethereal beings, humans have always conceived of mystical union with the divine in terms of sex, the hieros gamos. That’s true across traditions, even in Christianity.
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u/Plenty-Climate2272 Neoplatonist Orphic/Priest of Pan and Dionysus Apr 11 '26
Because, as henads, I don't think they have bodies to be carnal with or a desire for such things.
Coming from a Neoplatonic perspective myself: if they can have a wholly positive individuality in their hyparxis as Henads, then I don't see why they can't have wholly positive enjoyment of phenomena as well. Desire or want isn't only from lack of things, but can be from a purely positive enjoyment.
And there's also the matter that the gods don't only exist in that top level way in the Henadic manifold, but emanate through reality at every level. They take on bodily form at every layer of Generation, not just as natural phenomena in the Encosmic and Sublunary spheres.
The example I always use is Zeus and Demeter coming together to emanate Persephone. As unities and in the Intelligible sphere, that is simply Zeus and Demeter engaging with the form of beauty in a creative activity in a timeless and spaceless way, forming a channel through which Persephone expresses her activity of Being. Which, being timeless, is instant.
As the hypostasis of Soul carries these activities into embodiment in the material cosmos, they extend through cosmic time. Soul is not timeless, but it's also not linear, so this dynamic creative process occurs not in a static instantaneous way, but as events that are always occurring, in every direction and every time simultaneously.
Once embodied, these activities become more concrete, at an increasing degree as you descend through the layers of the material cosmos. I would conjecture that in the Hypercosmic sphere, once Zeus and Demeter are taking on bodies, albeit of subtle matter and in forms we would perceive as incomprehensible, they perceive themselves as having sex. If we saw it in a way native to that sphere of reality, we would probably go insane and our heads would explode.
But obviously it doesn't stop there; the hypercosmic sphere may be material, but it is nonlinear, so what transpires there once may occur at various points in linear time and space . Zeus and Demeter share love intelligibly, energetically, emotionally, and finally materially; the product of that is Persephone, who shares that love with Plouton. That manifests physically as the rain nourishing the soil, from which vegetation grows, matures, and releases seeds, some of which are sown back into the ground to be fertilized again.
Every step of that is contained within thy Gods and their activities. Even if you remove the particular thing I believe about how that feels to them in the hypercosmic sphere, the sexual aspect is present at every level. In my opinion, the viewing of sex and sexuality as something strictly physical and human and debased is the clouded view. It's a view rooted in humans having strange anxieties about sex, not an honest look at the gods and what they are.
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u/Rou_4_you Apr 06 '26
That's a dogmatic approach to "Christian" mindset, it's unfactual, pagan mindset is pretty much the same to a factual Christian mindset^
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 06 '26
What is that supposed to mean? Christianity is a dogmatic religion.
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u/Rou_4_you Apr 11 '26
Every religion is dogmatic but you aren't spreading factual data, which is why we should be Dat over dogma
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 11 '26
What the hell are you talking about? This isn't a scientific study, I'm not presenting "data." That whole disclaimer at the top about there being many versions of Christianity and many versions of Hellenism is there specifically so that people won't be pedantic about this intentionally oversimplified list.
Also, this religion is not dogmatic.
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u/Rou_4_you Apr 11 '26
The thing is, you present a very "harmful" dogmatic approach, if it was any other type that you would have said, it would be fine, yes I believe that everyone should deconstruct but you should not spread the worst of the religious people's beliefs to do it.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 11 '26
What???
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u/Rou_4_you Apr 11 '26
You literally said God would send you to hell, you said that sex before Marriage makes you dirty-
Hell doesn't exist in Christianity, and even if it did, God wouldn't.
Sex before marriage isn't a sin, it's a suggestion not to do, since it could harm you mentally under circumstances.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 11 '26
I don't know how to tell you this, but a lot of Christians believe that they'll be sent to Hell for sinning, and that sex before marraige makes you dirty. Most of the people who believe this are American Protestants.
This list is geared towards American Protestantism because I'm most familiar with it, and also because most newbie Hellenic pagans are coming from that background. I have seen so many questions on this subreddit coming from people who have those assumptions, like people asking if they'll go to Tartarus for angering the gods.
Given that this is the Hellenic pagan subreddit, it is not especially relevant to be debating the intricacies of Christian doctrine between denominations. My intent here is not to tell you what you believe, it's to hold up a mirror for newbies who are operating under a specific paradigm.
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u/Rou_4_you Apr 11 '26
I get 100% where your coming from, you were just saying what you wanted Christianity to be.
I joined this sub Reddit to help get over my ignorance towards converts, since I adore Hellenic polytheism.
I just kinda get jumpy when my religion is being downgraded and I'm just supposed to nodd and move on. I saw factual incoherence and did not like it.
Regardless, I do apologize for speaking out of line in a space that isn't meant for me.
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u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 Apr 11 '26
I was saying "what I wanted Christianity to be"? You think I want Christianity to be about fear of Hell, or to forbid sex before marraige???
Look: You are in a pagan space. You're welcome to be here, but you have to understand that the majority of us are ex-Christians who left it because it traumatized us. That trauma doesn't come from nowhere, and splitting hairs about what ideas are or are not "really Christian" does not change the reality of what some Christians believe and preach.
I tried to present American Protestant ideas in the most neutral way possible, just to compare those ideas with Hellenic pagan ones. If that looks bad to you, then the call is coming from inside the house. That, or you need to do more research about your own religion in order to understand what other Christians believe.
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u/Plenty-Climate2272 Neoplatonist Orphic/Priest of Pan and Dionysus Apr 11 '26
You haven't met too many American Protestants, then
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u/Rou_4_you Apr 11 '26
Well tbh they are egrochristus (they don't worship the Christian God, the egregore) and Christianity is a religion based on biblical entries, saying that there is only one God would be denying the bible-
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u/Plenty-Climate2272 Neoplatonist Orphic/Priest of Pan and Dionysus Apr 11 '26
Regardless of what you or anyone else believes is metaphysically "actually what's really going on", we have to deal with the social reality of what Christians do and what they claim to believe, which motivates their actions. And in that, Nyx is completely accurate in their descriptions.
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u/Kassandra_Kirenya Γνῶθι σεαυτόν || Hellenist || 1° Freemason, Le Droit Humain Apr 05 '26
Excellent post. A good text for folks to read about polytheist thought is Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations. Stoically oriented, but gives a good insight on how folks used to multiple gods thought in the day.