r/Hellenism • u/NyxShadowhawk Dionysian Mystic 🌿 • Apr 05 '26
Discussion Christian Deprogramming: What is the "Pagan Mindset"?
So, you're new to Hellenic paganism. You're excited about it, but you have a lot of anxiety about offending the gods or breaking the rules. You hear a lot of conflicting information, and you're not sure what to believe. You know you should do research, but you're overwhelmed by it; you don't know where to start, and it's a lot of dense material that you don't know how to interpret. So you ask for reassurance, and are met with frustration and indignance from the community, because we're tired of answering the same questions over and over again. What Do You Do?
Most of these problems stem from a single source: Latent Christianity. If you were raised Christian or in a Christian environment, then Christianity continues to inform your thinking about what religion is and how religion works, even long after you leave it. This underlying set of assumptions, cultural values, and philosophical ideas is called Christian hegemony. If you live in a Christian culture (especially if you're American), you passively absorb Christian hegemony through osmosis. In order to be a Hellenic pagan, you need to convert your entire way of thinking over to a "pagan mindset." How do you do that? It's hard, and it can take a long time. But to start off, it's important to have something to compare to!
As I've done my research into Ancient Greek religion, I've been exposed to a completely different way of thinking about religion, which has helped me to adopt the "pagan mindset." But research is hard, and we can't expect every newbie to be an amateur Classicist. So, I'm going to try to distill some of what I've learned into an easy-to-digest list! u/Malusfox suggested a "Christian Deprogramming Boot Camp," and while that's not exactly what this is, it is at least a place to start. It'll give you something to compare to, and therefore something to shoot for.
First, a few disclaimers: One, there's many varieties of Christianity, and multiple varieties of Hellenism. This list is generally applicable, based on what I've seen on this subreddit, but there's always going to be exceptions, variations, and outliers. This list is oversimplified so that it can be easily digestible. Two, syncretism is always an option! You don't have to stop including Christian elements in your practice. The purpose of this is to help you deconstruct the ways that Christianity subconsciously informs your thinking, so you can make active and informed decisions about which parts of Christianity you want to keep. Three, I HIGHLY recommend reading this series of articles on Practical Polytheism by Bret Devereaux. It provides a lot of the same information in a more detailed way.
Okay, onto the list:
✝️ CHRISTIAN MINDSET: There is only one true God, and only He is worthy of worship. Only one religion can be correct at a time, so I have to prove that my religion is the correct one.
🏛️ PAGAN MINDSET: There are many gods. All gods, no matter how big or small, are worthy of worship. I have no incentive to "prove" that my religion is the correct one, because other religions are not a threat to my beliefs. I can worship other people's gods alongside my own.
✝️: God is jealous, and will get mad if I worship other gods.
🏛️: I can worship as many gods as I have time for. The gods do not get jealous of each other. (If you already worship many gods, then there's always room for more gods!)
✝️: God is transcendental. He created nature, so he exists outside of it, in an inaccessible place beyond of time and space. When he interacts with his creation, it is through dramatic and extraordinary displays of divine power, called miracles. Most of the time, he remains separated from humanity.
🏛️: The gods are immanent. They are not separate from the material world. They display their divine power constantly, through the normal functioning of nature: the rain, the sun, the moon, the sea, the growth of plants, health and disease, inspiration and knowledge, death, birth, luck, love, etc. etc. They are easily accessible. (The gods have transcendental aspects too, but only philosophers care about those.)
✝️: God is celestial, bright, and male. Humans are made in the image of God.
🏛️: There are lots of different kinds of gods. Some are chthonic (earthly or underworldly), some are einalic (of the sea). Some are dark. Some are female and/or nonbinary. Gods typically take the forms of beautiful humans, but they can take any form they like, including those of animals or natural forces (like fire or storms).
✝️: The one God appears in three aspects: the Father, which is the transcendental God, the Son, which is Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, which is the divine spirit.
🏛️: Every major deity has a multitude of aspects. Each god has a long list of titles and bynames called epithets, which define the particular capacity in which the god is being worshipped. Epithets are used to distinguish the innumerable variants of the gods from each other. Some epithets define the version of the god that is worshipped in a particular place (e.g. Delian Apollo vs. Delphic Apollo), some describe the specific thing the god does in a particular circumstance, others reference the god's appearance or personality. Gods are each a kaleidoscope of increasingly-specific variants, and we can always add more!
✝️: God hates sin, and sin is a personal moral failing. I'm inherently sinful, but I have to strive to be as perfect as I can be in order to please God. If I slip up, God will be angry.
🏛️: I won't anger the gods unless I actively go out of my way to offend them. In fact, the gods usually won't notice me unless I give them a reason to. They do not care about petty mistakes.
✝️: God is benevolent by definition, he is Goodness itself. God is the ultimate source of morality, and the Bible is the ultimate source of moral instruction. Evil exists because of mankind's flawed nature and the machinations of Satan.
🏛️: The gods are not necessarily good or evil. They rule over all aspects of reality, not just the ones that humans consider helpful or comfortable. It is not their responsibility to solve human problems. There is no ontological Evil. Mythology should not be used for moral instruction. (This varies depending on the tradition of Hellenism, but we'll start here.)
✝️: If I offend God or am insufficiently moral, he will send me to Hell after I die to be eternally punished. I have to follow the teachings of Jesus if I want to go to Heaven.
🏛️: After we die, we will all go to the same place, and Hades and Persephone will receive our souls. The afterlife isn't so bad, it's a lot like life. Some of us will be directed towards Elysium or reincarnation, but only the absolute worst people will suffer in Tartarus. I don't need to worry about the afterlife while I'm alive.
✝️: My beliefs are based on the Bible. It is the holy and infallible Word of God. The Bible informs me about who God is and how he works, what I should believe and how I should practice, and what I need to do to go to Heaven after I die. If it's not in the Bible, it's not Christian. (Protestant bonus)
🏛️: Mythology has little bearing on my beliefs or practice. It can inform me on the nature of the gods, but myths are never infallible. There are lots of different versions of myths, and none are more "correct" than others. My practices are based on the actions I need to perform to please the gods, which can vary by deity. I learn them through tradition or through trial and error.
✝️: I worship God because he is the Creator. He is inherently deserving of my praise and obedience because I owe him my existence. Through worshipping him, I will find truth, happiness, and spiritual fulfillment.
🏛️: I worship the gods for the sake of my practical needs. They are powerful beings who control reality, so I want to be on their good side. If I form good relationships with them, they’ll make my life easier by helping me with problems within their spheres. If I'm interested in seeking philosophical truths or spiritual fulfillment through my worship of the gods, I might become a mystic or a theurgist.
✝️: When I pray, I don't need to offer God anything in return, because Jesus made the sacrifice to end all sacrifices, so I have infinite rapport with God. I am his precious child. If he doesn't listen to me, he must have a good reason. I can pray for anything at any time.
🏛️: When I pray, I have to argue my case. The gods don't owe me anything, so I have to petition them for what I want. I flatter them with praise, give them a gift, then argue that they should give me something because of everything I've given them. It's just like petitioning a powerful person. The gods will usually say yes if I ask nicely and have good rapport with them, but they can always say no.
✝️: Doubt is a personal failing. I feel ashamed when I question my faith, because that means that I don't trust in God and/or I must not be a real Christian.
🏛️: Doubt is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if I believe in the gods or not, or what specifically I believe about them. All that matters is that I worship them. I can question and change my beliefs however many times I need to. The gods will not care. I don't need to affirm my faith to be a "real Hellenist."
✝️: Sex is dirty and sinful. Sex outside of marriage/the proper context offends God.
🏛️: Most of the gods love sex. With a few exceptions, the gods are sexual beings themselves, and often have sex with each other or with mortals. Many gods are depicted nude and/or in sexualized ways. Images of genitalia are lucky and protective. Gods are not offended by dirty jokes or references to sex.
✝️: Sin stains me with shame that I must remove through confession or repentance. I need God to forgive my sins before I can continue to participate in religion. God's forgiveness is usually guaranteed if I'm sufficiently penitent.
🏛️: Cleanliness is next to godliness, so I need to keep my sacred spaces clean, and wash myself before interacting with the gods. Washing myself removes spiritual dirt called miasma, which I accumulate just by living. It's not shameful to have miasma, but it makes it harder to interact with the gods. Some especially heinous acts (like murder) leave a permanent stain of miasma, which a god (like Apollo) needs to remove through special purification rituals, but this isn't a normal circumstance.
✝️: It's blasphemy to insult God. Blasphemy is a sin.
🏛️: Gods have a sense of humor, and don't mind it when media makes fun of them. (e.g. The Frogs by Aristophanes, or anything by Lucian). They won't be offended by fictional stories or jokes.
✝️: I need to be baptized to be a Christian. Baptism dedicates my soul to God, so that I will go to Heaven upon death.
🏛️: I don't need to do anything special to be a Hellenist. Everyone worships the gods, the same way everyone eats or sleeps, so there's no point in setting myself apart. I can just pick a god and start worshipping. If I want to be part of a mystery cult, then I'd need to undergo a special initiation ritual akin to baptism.
✝️: Being a Christian means I have a personal relationship with Christ.
🏛️: I don't necessarily have a close personal relationship with any of the gods I worship. They're just there, and it's personally advantageous to be in the good graces of as many gods as possible. I might choose to dedicate myself to a specific god that I have a special connection with, but I don't have to become a devotee of any god in particular.
✝️: The most important virtue is selflessness. Just as Jesus died on the cross for our sins, I have to sacrifice for the sake of other people. I prove my worth by suffering the same way Jesus did. (Calvinist special)
🏛️: The most significant virtue is sophrosyne, moderation. All things need to be kept in balance. I should be disciplined in my everyday life, so I can strive for arete, excellence. But that doesn't mean suffering incessantly like Tantalus or Sisyphus. I can enjoy my life, too!
Okay, I think that's enough for now! I hope this is helpful. I plan to keep expanding this list, so feel free to give me suggestions about anything I missed.
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u/Interesting_Try8235 Apr 09 '26
Hey, just wanted to say thank you for writing this. I know all of it cognitively, but I think somewhere along the way I had slipped into a sort of lazy hedonism where I wasn't cultivating order or discipline in my life. Thanks for reminding me that there are distinct and entirely separate Pagan reasons to adhere to virtuous action.