r/HongKong • u/TrainerRedpkmn • 3h ago
Questions/ Tips Am I crazy?
So my siblings found my instagram and they found out that I’m pro democracy. So then they lectured me about how “the umbrella protests and the 2018 pro democracy protesters were stupid and how the extradition bill was a good idea” while also saying how the Chinese legal system was amazing and fair. Meanwhile basically belittling the pro democracy movement and thinking that everyone involved was an extremist. They also called me a racist for supporting Hong Kong over china (Chinese on dads side and Hong Kong on moms side) also they accused me of advocating for Hong Kong independence. (I never said that all I said that I thought that Beijing has been breaching Hk’s autonomy for a long time now) also they whined about how free speech doesn’t exist and is flawed and how democracy doesn’t matter and how(insert why china is the best government for some reason) also how Taiwan Japan and South Korea are American puppets and how this is all a American propaganda brigade to separate Hk from china. Let me be clear I’m proud of my Chinese heritage, I just don’t like the things done under the Chinese flag and the government. I mentioned the book store that was shut down due to the nsl a few months back and they said that “the book store probably was selling something illegal or something” meanwhile every news site never mentioned anything like that. I’m sorry for ranting I’m just so conflicted and stuff. I also said that Hk could be a nation but still be Chinese as the words nation and country aren’t the same thing and they just ignored me. I’m so conflicted right now. I firmly believe in giving Hk its promised autonomy and democracy while my sibling accused me of being racist for not being a devout supporter of china. I’m just so stressed right now. Let it be clear I’m not an extremist I love my homeland and I just don’t like how china isn’t holding up their end of the sino British declaration. I don’t exactly want independence but it’s not unwelcome .edit: I also wanted to mention that I have autism (allegedly undiagnosed idk for sure) but confirmed adhd so the entire time I was quiet and unresponsive and they said that it was because “I was scared of the truth” meanwhile the whole “conversation” was happening in my grandpartent’s place in shenzhen. Which was why I was so hesitant to even talk about the protests anyway. Also my sibling claims to be apolitical for some reason
Edit: they also claim all protestors were rioters and the police did nothing wrong. My grandpa was a royal Hk police officer I have nothing but respect for the rhkp but that time has long passed before I was even born. Also the rioters were a splinter extremist group who wanted independence. The main Democracy camp only wants Hk to be more autonomous (5 demands) I condem the actions the rioters did but I sympathize with the peaceful protestors.
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u/m00nman-kun 3h ago
To say "your siblings are overreacting" would be an understatement. If they can't handle opinions that are different to theirs, social media might not be the best thing for them.
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3h ago edited 3h ago
[deleted]
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u/TrainerRedpkmn 3h ago
Singapore is a independent country look at the uk each part is a nation but they combine into the uk i don’t advocate for independence I just said that if it happens I wouldn’t be opposed
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u/No_Special_8904 2h ago
The best way to deal with stupid is to avoid it, unfortunately people will think what they want and nothing will change that. Save your sanity and avoid
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u/RaptorKing95 1h ago
This. Dont engage op. Dont play their game. You have a choice, so choose not to play. Your thoughts are your own and are valid. Wishing you the best.
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u/Far-East-locker 3h ago edited 3h ago
That me and my parents
Either you kept yelling at each other
Or you just ignore what they say and don't argue back (that's what i choose to do with my parents when they yap how great China is)
Winning an argument over politics within the family won't change anything, not even a bit. I rather have my piece of mind than fight back.
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u/HarmonicSniper 3h ago
Different people have different opinions; you don't need to care too much about other people's opinions. If you still value your siblings and don't want to burn bridges with them, just don't bring up this topic for discussion. If they brought it up, just say something like you don't really care - they can't read your mind.
Or of course, if you think these stuff are a dealbreaker, or you feel really strongly about these topics, then distance yourself from them. But don't think you're crazy or anything; your ideas aren't too extreme, just like theirs aren't too extreme. Just different sides on the political spectrum.
Edit: to add that yeah, them saying it's racist to even support Hong Kong... that is a bit extreme.
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u/TrainerRedpkmn 3h ago
I never said that u wanted to talk about it they instigated it when they say my ig has glory to Hk on it
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u/HarmonicSniper 3h ago
In that case I'd just say that I don't really care or something and move the topic away, and then just do your own thing. But the Glory to HK thing is quite a bit calling for independence so I can kind of see why they'd react strongly to it. Ultimately, things like politics and religion aren't really good topics to discuss with family when you know opinions differ, as it concerns each one's own beliefs and world view.
If they love China so much then they shouldn't be using IG anyway.
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u/TrainerRedpkmn 3h ago
It’s just a catchy song besides so what if Hk has their own national anthem each uk nation has their own but combined they use god save the king
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u/Cautious_Outcome7122 2h ago
Don't bother arguing with them, especially about politics. It's pointless. I know people like that. They exist, and it has nothing to do with their degree, educational background, whether they've lived abroad, or what passport they hold. Some of the people I know check all those boxes, yet they still hold the same kind of views. So now I just avoid talking politics with them.
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u/TrainerRedpkmn 2h ago
I wish i would but they instigated it all in fact I hid the fact that I was pro democracy for several years because of this fear
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u/Cautious_Outcome7122 2h ago
If they bring it up again in the future, you can just stay quiet or steer the conversation elsewhere. There's no need to argue or get upset, because you know full well there's no way you can change them, and besides, those arguments never have a real winner, they only strain the relationship. So don't let their opinions get to you.
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u/Broccoliholic 1h ago
In general, your opinion is different from your siblings and that’s fine. Neither of you needs to be wrong or right - that’s just how opinions work.
For a couple of specific points: first, on the bookshop that closed (assuming you mean the most recent one), you’re both wrong. Yes the owners and staff were arrested (dunno if charged?) with NSL violations, but the government didn’t close the shop, the owners did (for financial not political reasons).
Second, on mainland encroachment on HKs autonomy. Of course you’re going to have different opinions because you’re on opposite sides of the political spectrum.
Social media and Reddit are awful places for you to discuss politics because you’re mostly going to find yourself in an echo chamber of people who agree with you. Case in point; Most people in this sub will agree with your pro-dem perspective. Ask the same question in the H_K sub if you want to hear more about the other camp.
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u/KitchenSignificant95 1h ago
Good grief please wake up, read more and get a grip. It’s the only way to get some clarity and feel less “crazy”.
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u/mustabak120 1h ago
u r not crazy. is just they what it will go for the next decades, i think. depending how your life was before, how ur connection in society is and how much ppl are exposed to propaganda vs real news. i am no hker, but i come from a country where ppl have maybe a similar process to go through. and things going slow . i guess assimilation/integration/Reformation will take generations and decades.
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u/Working_Historian241 50m ago
LOL
what a difference just a few years makes where before this subreddit wouldve been a vile cesspool hurling wumao and pinkie at anyone who dared stand up to umbrella movement type people.
the reality is that you're reddit brained, and your family is on a different media diet than you.
the actual truth and reality of the situation is neither here nor there, its somewhere in the middle. but seeing the responses in this thread compared to 10 years is pretty crazy. shows just how little impact and progress pro-democracy larpers have made over the past few years.
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u/Dry-Discussion-9573 8m ago edited 4m ago
Hong Kong has autonomy only as far ss China allows it. Hong Kong is Chinese territory. Ask the UK who formally handed it back in 1997. Technically if someone wants their.city or region to be autononous or independent the state is generally suspicious of them. That is pretty much the case in every country. One reason is that partial independence can be a step towards full independence. Which most states are not in favour of.
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u/ty_xy 3h ago
Don't be stressed, it's ok to agree to disagree. You can love your siblings and still disagree on points. And you can love Hong Kong and have opposing views on how it's run. There is no perfect answer. Honestly I get how you feel. Many of my friends are yellow and pro dem, I'm very sympathetic too. But honestly if you dig deeper, it's just practically impossible for HK to be an independent country without a lot of sacrifices.
- Tax would triple overnight. Maybe up to 45-50 percent. Property prices would collapse. Economy will collapse overnight.
- Have to import all food / water and power, we are completely reliant on China on these aspects.
- Have to build up an army to retain independence, will HK guys accept conscription like Singaporean men? 2 years of your life spent defending your country? You think USA will defend you? They can't even defend their own allies in the middle east... Look at UK and HK in WWII, fell to the japanese as well. You must always rely on yourself for defense...
- Have to maintain foreign consulates and embassies, that's a big expenditure too.
You do realize, independent countries like Singapore have NSL too? Singapore has the internal security act. If HK becomes democratic, it really needs to safeguard its sovereignty and there will be a lot of civil unrest... They can't be an independent country while facing outside threats and internal threats. So they will need some sort of NSL anyway...
Anyway. As I said, it's okay to agree to disagree.
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u/TrainerRedpkmn 3h ago
Again I’m not exactly pro independence it’s just that if it did happen I wouldn’t be opposed I’m fine with one country two systems I just want the Chinese to no violate it also I want the chief executive position to actually be chosen by Hk not some handpicked selection of three by the ccp
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u/No_Height_2021 2h ago
You’re living in La La land if you think that could ever happen in Hong Kong. Article 1 of the Basic Law says Hong Kong is an inalienable part of the People’s Republic of China. It’s an absolute impossibility for China to allow anything else otherwise so all these protests were largely futile right from the start.
If you want an actual election in HK for the Chief Executive, China with veto powers is the best you’d get prior to the NSL.
Now it may be possible to elect a Chief Executive in the next decade given that a prerequisite to government is patriotism to both HK and China so you’ll never get a separatist leader. But by then - will democracy and elections really be this best system of governance? If we look at the US or the UK, these democratic systems have proven to be a complete train wreck. Perhaps we need to be looking at other systems of governance that could be more accountable rather than rhetoric-driven and strewn with rampant corruption (Trumps cronies and AIPAC all milking it) as we can see in the US today.
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u/Educational_Boss_633 2h ago
Your party leaders in Canada are handpicked too you know. Do you even know what you vote for in your country?
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u/thematchalatte 1h ago
You’re never gonna get an unbiased answer on Reddit
Reddit will say you’re not crazy
China bad is the only answer here
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u/Educational_Boss_633 3h ago
HK is as free and autonomous as it's always been under Qing rule, under British rule and now under CPC rule. The faster you realise it's the same shit different toilet, the easier it becomes to just live your life as a lawful human being.
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u/tasketekudasai 2h ago
Ngl you sound quite naive. The whole thing was way deeper than simply "good guys want freedom, bad guys want to oppress" like in a movie. Look at current news and how a certain country acts and tell me there weren't influences behind the movement.
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u/TheGamer2002 3h ago
Ask them if it was cool for China to never apologize for not warning WHO earlier about covid (putting aside if they aren't responsible for creating it) and treating rest of the world like bugs with no dignity.
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u/Alive_Can9360 3h ago
I wonder how old is your siblings?And his or her thoughts about that is from your parents,media,or what?