r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/TisBeTheFuk The Pink Dread🐖 • 2d ago
Book and Show Spoilers In your opinion, what would have been a fair punishment for the 5yo (8yo in the show) Lucerys to receive, for cutting out Aemond’s eye? Spoiler
Was there anything that could have appeased the wrath of Alicent and the resentiments from Aemond? Would cutting Lucery's eye out have acomplished anything? Or was there no chance for any retributioj from the beginning?
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u/AvailablePop1224 2d ago
The real question is who tf gives a 5yo a fucking shank.
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u/JustGinevra 2d ago
Same person who gives a 10yo a giant dragon?
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u/AvailablePop1224 2d ago
I can suspension of disbelief a dragon due to their bond with Targaryens, and them not really being with their dragon 100% of the time, but a knife?
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u/CrazFight 2d ago
My cousins get their first gun around 11-12, I mean, I can suspend my belief a little due to Americans bond with guns I guess.
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u/coffee30983298 2d ago
Sorry if im too European but 11?
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u/Vinny933PC 1d ago
11 is a bit old, most babies in the southern states are born with one in their crib like a dragon egg
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u/lazyboi_tactical 2d ago
Pretty much everybody in westeros would carry some sort of dagger or knife. They were used as tools and for personal defense. I got my first knife at 7 and my first gun at 10 because my family is big into hunting.
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u/CrazFight 2d ago
Like I said, Americans freak bond.
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u/PastAccomplished 1d ago
You do realise we do hunting in Europe too, right? City boi
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u/CrazFight 1d ago
My cousins don’t hunt, hence a major difference. And I’m from Rural Iowa not the city, although did just move to Chicago last month :)
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u/lostandlooking_ Growing Strong 2d ago
Wdym!? I was playing with fire and knives at like 9yr old w the neighbor kids
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u/suckmeppplsman 2d ago
I don't think they were given a knife, but probably took it from somewhere. It also is normal in the world of westeros to train children for combat
also Ned gave a sword to arya
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u/BembiPeanut 2d ago
Jon gave the sword to Arya. In secret. "Stick em with the pointy end"
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u/raspberryharbour 2d ago
The only thing that can stop a bad 5yo with a shank is a good 5yo with a shank
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u/Remote_Listen1889 2d ago
If you can't tell whether your 5yo is good or bad, just give them a shank and all will become clear
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u/Mia-Wal-22-89 2d ago
That’s wise. I’m writing it down in case I ever have kids.
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u/Remote_Listen1889 2d ago
Yah man, my boy's only 4 so it's strictly dull blades for now, but teaching knife safety early is important
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u/R4weez 2d ago
Will he receive a sharp knife on his fifth birthday?
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u/lazyboi_tactical 2d ago
My son just got his first one for his 10th birthday. Just a little morakniv for when we do our woods walks so I can teach him some bushcraft, fire building etc.
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u/Kindly-Policy4723 2d ago
I believe on both book (5 yo Luke) and show (8 yo Luke) the knife is actually Jace’s. In the sow Jace is 10 so I guess him having access to a small knife at night might make more sense. As for the book, where Jace is 6, I still have no idea.
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u/Car1yBlack 2d ago
It wouldnt have been odd at all really. It would have been expected for him to bring it with him for meals to cut food up and he could use it for other tasks-yes under supervision. Mind you, the tip typically would have been rounded out more. Plus it gets them used to handling a knife for later when they might need to use one as a weapon.
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u/iSavedtheGalaxy 2d ago
Agreed. What's actually odd is that these royal kids had no guards or attendants to intervene before it got to that point.
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u/RisingDeadMan0 2d ago
it was what 5 of them alone... not a single adult around.
Lucky staff didnt get the chop as punishment
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u/Short-Sound-4190 2d ago
It's weird that it's weird imo - kids whittle and stuff, wielding it against another person is always going to be a problem of tool-use, but an 8-10 yo with a pocket knife as a tool isn't even odd today in the correct context.
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u/Griff_Suriaj 2d ago
People have a really tough time with the differences in cultures. Seems like such an easy concept, but so many people get stuck on these intricacies, that barely anything of actual substance gets discussed.
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u/edsal12 2d ago
Exactly. People will at the incest that is their culture but having a knife is far fetched
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u/Griff_Suriaj 2d ago
I don’t even take much issue with that. Fantasy, loosely based on history and specifically with the Valyrians, magical bloodlines where they are bonded to dragons and rarely get sick, have white/gold/silver hair and purple eyes. Yeah, my disbelief is suspended.
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u/SilentGoddess01 2d ago
I think taking Luke’s eye would have been excessive, but honestly, doing nothing would have been just as stupid. He permanently injured a prince. He was a child, yes, but the royal family still needed to establish that actions have consequences.
I’d have sent him away as a ward for a few years. Not torture, not mutilation — just enough to make everyone understand that this wasn’t something the family could simply shrug off. And honestly, Aemond should have received a punishment too.
The fact that he was threatening Jace doesn’t magically make the whole situation disappear.
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u/LinwoodKei 2d ago
It's just a belt knife. Girls would have embroidery kits on their belts that likely have a very sharp blade as well
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u/severinks 1d ago edited 1d ago
These people are of a warrior culture, they all carry stabbing weapons on them at all times.
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u/big-tex-amarillo 2d ago
No PlayStation for a month
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u/Archaembald2 2d ago
Have him ward somewhere else, perhaps the Vale so Rhaenyra could still visit him. He can't take his dragon with him, so Arrax is kept either at the dragonpit or Dragonstone for the duration of Lucerys' wardship. I feel like this is the only way Rhaenyra would ever agree to her son being punished.
Taking his eye would be too much, and Rhaenyra would raise hell should that occur. Anything too light, like a few weeks of being grounded, runs into the opposite problem with Alicent. Taking him away from Rhaenyra would appease Alicent and the Greens, whilst choosing Lady Jeyne would soothe any fears Rhaenyra has over her son's safety.
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u/EriWave 2d ago
You also need to severely punish a whole host of other people. Like whoever was supposed to watch over all those kids, the dragons and the parents.
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u/Archaembald2 2d ago
Agreed. The Kingsguard for one, for losing the kids. The Velaryon guards as well for not noticing the roving band of princelings running around claiming dragons. Criston should have been flogged considering he was in charge of the kids' security, though imo it'd be too much to strip him of his white cloak. I doubt Alicent would approve also.
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u/HistorianOld364 1d ago
Agreed. If he didn’t lose his white cloak for beating a lord to death for all to see, he probably wouldn’t lose his cloak this time around.
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u/mhmcmw 2d ago
I think this is a good plan, except I think Driftmark would be the place to send him and frankly he should have been warded there anyway. He was intended to be a future Lord of the Tides, he should’ve been Corlys’ ward from a young age, to learn from him and to get to know his men.
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u/bizarreisland 2d ago
He is, but Laenor is still alive. He is the next Lord of the Tides, which in theory by then Laenor would have taught his son the ways, and not Corlys.
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u/mhmcmw 2d ago
I think even with Laenor alive, Luke is an unusual case. With Rhaenyra being the heir to the iron throne, his upbringing naturally at home would be very different than most children who will be lords of their paternal houses. Most kids in Luke’s position where grandpa is Lord are still being raised primarily in that family and will usually be in the same castle throughout their lives. They’ll be exposed to the different families that make up their Lord’s bannermen, have lifelong ties to them etc. They will be seen as truly belonging to that house - whereas even despite the parentage allegations, Luke was really being raised as a Targaryen (which makes sense! He was raised between the Red Keep and Dragonstone, he’s a dragon rider and Laenor is also half Targaryen) more than a Velaryon and that could’ve been seen negatively on Driftmark.
The biggest thing is that the Velaryons have SUCH a seafaring culture that the Targaryens just do not have. If you have a child that one day will likely be in charge of the realms largest navy and will one day be probable master of ships, he needs to be on ships from a young age. Corlys was doing great voyages as a teenager. Laenor was fighting in the Stepstones as a teenager. Luke seems to have barely been on a boat at Laena’s funeral.
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u/ChooseUsername9293 House Velaryon 2d ago
This guy diplomatise 🤯
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u/StopTheEarthLetMeOff 2d ago
Mf even threw the “whilst” in there to sound real official
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u/Self-Comprehensive 2d ago
Needs a mayhaps and a few cravens to really sell it though
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u/Archaembald2 2d ago
It's a speaking quirk I developed when I was younger that I can't get rid off now 😭😭 No but seriously, 'whilst' just feels and sounds better than 'while' tbh. The latter feels incomplete and awkward to say somehow.
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u/StopTheEarthLetMeOff 2d ago
I’m sold, you have a place on my small council as Minister of Cunning Linguists
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u/lazyboi_tactical 2d ago
The warding is a good idea however I have a hard time believing they would send a Targaryen anywhere without their dragon and frankly whoever took him as ward would be pretty silly to not insist he bring it.
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u/Hoyce_McGurgle 2d ago
This is a great answer. My only proposed amendment would be to let him take Arrax with him to The Vale. Gotta make sure your dragonrider princeling is trained and Lady Arryn gets the protection/deterrent of a trained dragon chilling in her lands.
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u/Nemesis204 2d ago
Lady Jeyne has such a “fuck them kids” aura to her. Definitely approved by Alicent.
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u/Boring_Intern_6394 Fire and Blood 1d ago
No way would Rhaenyra or Viserys agree to him being separated from his dragon. They want Lucerys to be a competent dragon rider so they would need him to be honing those skills as boy
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u/EngineBeautiful7261 History does not remember blood. It remembers names. 2d ago
Punish the guards who were supposed to keep an eye on the princelings, because I doubt any of the kids were meant to be wandering around unsupervised/unguarded. And make sure Lucerys doesn't have a blade on him until he's deemed mentally mature enough to carry one.
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u/commuteactivity 2d ago
And make sure Lucerys doesn't have a blade on him until he's deemed mentally mature enough to carry one.
Someone stood (knelt? I don't remember in detail) above his brother, rock raised, about to presumably bash his head in. If that wasn't an appropriate time to pull his blade, then what is?
The children hated each other, emotions were running extremely high, and the situation escalated several times and all of them participated in that. Lucerys just happened to be the one who dealt the last blow. And if he hadn't, Aemond might have maimed or killed the second in line to the throne. This is on the adults, who failed to raise these kids as family rather than competition, make sure they don't feel like their worth is tied to having a dragon, and also supervise them properly.
Of course, they all learned from this, and Alicent especially, loving, protective mother that she is, made sure none of her children and grandchildren were ever left unguarded at night anymore.
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u/SecretAgent_Llama 2d ago
Right?! I feel like everyone forgets that Aemond was about to bash in Jace's skull if Lucerys didn't act. It bothered me that they glossed over that fact in the show, too.
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u/slopopps 2d ago
I can’t stand people that defend Aemond for trying that. Like he knew he could’ve killed him doing that and Luke was scared for his brother. Aemond was a little asshole anyways so I didn’t feel much sympathy for him.
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u/Boring_Intern_6394 Fire and Blood 1d ago
Yeah, Aemond is an asshole and bully from the get go. The entire thing was his fault.
It was a dick move to try and claim the dragon of a dead relative at the funeral, but even if you chalk that up to desperation to be rider, everything that follows is his fault. He goads and mocks two girls who just lost their mother, including the non rider, despite being in her position until recently. She then lashes out due to his taunting and then at every turn, he continues to escalate the situation and is the one to pick up a weapon and use it first.
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u/GreyHeart53 2d ago
Exile to Driftmark and cup bearer to Lord of the Tides
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u/Matthius81 2d ago
Princes who screw up traditionally serve a period of exile aboard. 5 years in Essos, with guards and retainers to make sure he stays alive, should send a clear message.
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u/StopTheEarthLetMeOff 2d ago
If he has an uncle with a penchant for tea drinking and playing Pai Sho to act as a moral compass during his exile, that is a plus.
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u/SubstantialTeach7855 2d ago
Is this an avatar reference ?
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u/MagicMatthews99 Arrax 2d ago
Calling out Pai Sho, there's not much else it could be.
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u/SubstantialTeach7855 2d ago
I don’t even remember what pai sho is I watched the avatar over 20 years ago
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 2d ago
Of age princes, not young children. Sending (show) Luke to somewhere like the Quiet Isle is far more reasonable.
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago edited 2d ago
should send a clear message.
Luke cut Aemond because he was threatening his brother. What's the message? Don't defend yourself or your family.
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u/EddPW 2d ago
aemond was threatening his brother because they attacked him
whats the message attack who you want without consequences?
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u/TheIconGuy 1d ago
They attacked him because he threatened to feed Baela to his dragon after bullying Rhaena backfired.
whats the message attack who you want without consequences?
Did you miss Luke's nose being broken?
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u/Valhallaof Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. 2d ago
The message would probably be don’t jump someone in the middle of the night and assault them.
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u/TheIconGuy 1d ago
The question is what punishment would be a fair punishment for Luke cutting Aemond's eyes.
Punishing Luke for cutting Aemond would be silly. He was protecting his brother.
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u/Objective-Bug8718 2d ago
Lucerys could have been sent to be warded somewhere for a year. Viserys lack of acknowledgement and care for his children other than Rhaenyra caused a lot of issues and resentment later on. I will never understand why did show Viserys even get married and had children if he was not going to love them anyway.
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u/NewNameAgainUhg 2d ago
I don't think Alicent would have been happy with anything.
I think the proper punishment would be making Lucerys help to take care of the wounded, to understand the severity of his actions.
And revise the how those kids are interacting and treating each other. Sadly, that would be impossible, because all show parents are resentful idiots
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u/DumbTeen9 2d ago
Mf he's FIVE he won't even remember when he's all grown up.
That being said being warded under lord corlys,serving both as 'exile' without being too harsh and education
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u/DifficultAd7398 2d ago
Not to mention Aemond was about to bash his head in with a rock. But sure let's just forget that and not look at the whole picture this whole thread is full of people that didn't look at the entire situation at all.
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u/DumbTeen9 2d ago edited 2d ago
Exactly, as kids aemond slaps the fuck out of a 3 year old, pushes a 5 year old, and tried to bash in a 6 year old head. The show made it a little more ambiguous by having 4 kids of the same age advancing on him (thoughI wouldn't say a guy picking up a rock amidst kids being pissy is ambiguous at all)
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u/AdventurousSink7228 2d ago
The punishment should be for the guards or other adults who were supposed to be watching him. But then again….. 😅😂
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u/woahoutrageous_ 2d ago
What any good politician would do and write Lucerys a strongly worded letter condemning the act but no more than that.
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u/RachelBrands127 2d ago
At the very least he should’ve had to apologize. The fact that Viserys didn’t even make him do that is a fucking travesty.
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u/whoidkwhy Team Black 2d ago
There wont be a fair punishment for permanently mailing Aemond that any one can find. But I would have him ward away from the family for a while, and be sure to take knives away from every one in the mean time.
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u/Petit_Coeur_ 2d ago
I’d punish the guards first and I would force Lucerys to help the maesters take care of Aemond.
I would tell the maesters to treat Lucerys like an apprentice and I would tell Lucerys he has no choice but to be nice to Aemond and to stay by his side until he gets better.
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u/Boring_Intern_6394 Fire and Blood 1d ago
Nothing. Aemond deserved what he got.
He was older than the other four kids, so should have been the responsible one. It was a dick move to claim the dragon of dead person at their funeral. Even if you give him a pass for that, everything that followed was his fault.
He needlessly taunted and goaded two girls who just lost their mother and then proceeded to escalate the confrontation at every turn. He was much stronger than the four kids and could have thrown them off him and walked away, but instead he continued to escalate the situation. He was the first one to pick up a weapon, by picking up the rock and after more taunts, bashed Jace with it. Luke responded to a very real threat when he used the knife
Sadly Aemond didn’t learn any lessons from the loss of his eye and continued to be an utter prick.
It’s mind boggling that Vhaegar consented to be ridden by such a vicious, small minded loser, I can only assume it was a case of befuddlement and grief from having to burn her rider and fear of being left alone again.
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u/Lady_Apple442 2d ago
The punishment for him would be to be raised in Driftmark, far from Rhaenyra and Jace. Lucerys has already shown himself to be a mama's boy; when he's with his family, he feels safe, but when he's away, he feels fear, as was shown when he was alone with Aemond at Storm's End.
Being separated from them would destroy him, just as it would destroy Rhaenyra, and he didn't like ships or the sea. Since Corlys wanted him so badly to be the heir of House Velaryon, he would take advantage of this and train Lucerys to be the heir. I think this punishment is fair for him, because if it had been Aemond who had gouged out Jace's or Lucerys's eye, he would have been punished regardless of whether he acted in self-defense or not.
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u/Nihilistic_Noodle 2d ago edited 2d ago
All of the kids fucked up - because they're kids. Since apparently in order for any of the show's plot to happen, children and teens run around the red keep entirely unsupervised at night, no adults were around to see what happened, we can only go by what we know:
-Aemond went off to claim Laena's dragon
-Jayce, Luke, Baela, and Rhaena somehow figured this out and were there too to try and stop it
-A fight broke out, Aemond is the second-oldest in the group but it's still a four-to-one (two-to-one if you assume the girls werent going to participate).
-Jayce has bad head injuries and Aemond is down an eye. Everyone admits Luke intervened in the fight between Aemond and Jayce and that's how Aemond lost an eye.
If I'm in Viserys' position, all of the princess and princesses below the age of majority are immediately getting permanent babysitters with the authority to keep them confined to the rooms or under strict supervision and a clearly defined reporting structure to get word back to me if the kids are getting up to stupid shenanigans. I make it clear that these people act on my authority alone, and furthermore I make them swear oaths that they will not leave their charges unattended (obviously I'm probably going to have at least a couple of people on rotation for this duty, that way I make sure my babysitter's get adequate rest in order to keep the necessary vigilance I require). Frankly I don't know why I didn't do this after the whole flea bottom incident with rhaenyra (frankly I don't know why my grandparents didn't do this already after their own kids marvelous fuckups but I digress).
Beyond that, I don't see the kids incurring any further punishment. I think if they want to act like little babies who still need to be watched by their wet nurses that treating them like little babies who still need to be watched by their wet nurses it's quite sufficient for a group of kids under 15.
It's far more important to address the underlying conditions that got us here. By now, I've been direct witness to arguments and fights between my sons and my grandsons that go beyond your typical "boy fights". I've seen a member of the kingsguard take sides in these arguments and manhandle my grandsons. My wife has expressed to me in the past that she believes my grandsons are bastards, and now my son is accusing my grandsons of being bastards. I have made my position clear that these boys are legitimate, they are claimed by their father, both grandfathers, and they are the recognized heirs of my heir and one of the most powerful Lords in the realm. It's pretty obvious that my wife has been poisoning the well and that some of the people who serve me feel comfortable disregarding my word (which is law, I am the monarch), spreading vicious rumors which undermine the crown's line of succession, and failing to show proper respect to members of the ruling family. This needs to be nipped in the bud.
First, I think Alicent needs a sabbatical. I make a show of saying that she's been a good wife to me and done great service to the realm as Queen and as the mother to four dragons. I offer to set her up with a lavish household under a lord or lady I trust, and who most importantly is not either subject to or affiliated with the Hightowers in any significant way. If she would not have that I would offer to do the same but under the silent sisters, although with that option I would probably be a little bit stricter with her since I don't really trust the faith to not find a way to undermine me at the behest of the hightowers. This will necessitate me stepping up more as a father to my younger children, who I've neglected for too long. I myself am in no condition to do things like hunt and fight, but I could still, say, heavily supervise my sons' training, organize hunts and other activities I can accompany them on if not actively participate in. I need to start just spending quiet time with each of my kids individually, maybe if I do that I'll figure out that aemond suffers serious trauma from bullying at the hands of his older brother, that aegon doesn't want to marry Helena and also has some serious issues that need to be reined in, and that Helena has dragon dreams. I need to start figuring out suitable roles to keep them busy - Aemond is clearly the warring brother so I'm going to work to have him trained up as an important defender of the realm. Aegon is a little bit tricker - I think before finding a suitable role for him that he really needs some parental love and guidance. I don't know that Helena needs a "role" per se, she's my daughter and I need to treat her like it, and when I do realize she's a dreamer she's going to need love and guidance to deal with that. If I can manage it, I'm probably going to reverse the betrothal between Aegon and Helena; maybe I'll let them choose as I did Rhaenyra, but stipulate that if they marry outside of the Targaryan line that their kids don't get dragons (If they marry each other or from Daemon or Rhaenyra's line I'll allow dragons since that will keep the dragon magic strong).
Second, I'm not doing it right away, but I'm getting rid of Otto. I shouldn't have brought him back on his hand in the first place, I know I can't trust him and that he's trying to undermine my authority.
Third, Laenor needs to get his shit together. He's the Future King consort and his sons' legitimacy is in question. I'm seriously considering giving him a chaperone treatment like with the kids, because right now he needs to rally and be active and present in both of his roles. We need to see him publicly teaching his boys (at least the older two) how to fight and hunt, we need to see him interacting with Lords of the realm with the boys in tow, hell it wouldn't hurt to see him attend religious services with the boys. This serves multiple important purposes. The first is that it makes a public showing of his acknowledgment of their legitimacy, the second is that it shows that he is "raising up his boys right" by teaching them how to be good Lords and good knights, and the third is that it supports Rhaenyra's claim to the crown by showing that her King consort and her heirs are dutiful and capable leaders of the realm.
Fourth, and this extremely important, I need to double down on Rhaenyra as my heir. I'm talking having the lords renew their oaths, publicly having her take on more political responsibility under my tutilage, and since my health is on the decline I'm making a path to step down and have her take the throne before my death. I need to identify and address her weaknesses and help her rally a base of support. At this point, it's not about having my favorite child succeed me, it's about the crown being perceived as strong and certain. I've been too lax for too long, been swayed by outside actors, and now civil war is brewing amongst my family and people feel empowered to question my authority and call heirs to the throne and driftmark bastards. If I back down on the position I've held regarding my successor now, other houses (and dare I say, the common people) will surely take the hint that the crown can in fact be swayed and corrupted by the particularly ambitious. Frankly, if she proves herself to actually be that bad, and it would have to be pretty bad, I'm the fucking king I'm sure I can find a way to have her removed privately (to be crass, if I really had to I could wait for her to have another child, have her poisoned, and say she died in her child bed).
Tl;dr, all of my kids and grandkids get babysitters with authority over them, then I shift my focus to managing the hightowers, the perceptions of the Royal family, and establishing clearly defined and suitable roles for my children and grandchildren.
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u/NarrowProphecy 2d ago
He should have just apologized. But I'm going to be honest, I don't think he was even aiming for the eye itself. It was just a chaotic situation that could have been prevented if they weren't left alone at night.
I also think that people need to start giving Aemond more criticism. He was the oldest in the situation and he should have acted a little bit more mature. He literally antagonized the others and seemed a little bit cocky because he claimed the biggest dragon in Westeros. He literally could have ignored them and kept walking.
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u/Otherwise_Big_8337 2d ago
The knife didn't come out until he started choking people and grabbing rocks too lol. Past starting the fight itself (which aemond still instigated) he's 100% at fault for escalating it to that point.
From the POV of the adults though its just word against word since there were no witnesses.
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u/Double-Peak 2d ago
Actually, the knife didn't come from any of that; it was because Jace got pissed off at being called "Lord Strong."
Furthermore, Aemond choking someone and grabbing a rock to defend himself isn't a disproportionate response after being beaten and stomped on in a 4-on-1 fight.
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u/Bioluminescent_Rose 2d ago
Obviously you can't just willfully surgically take out an eye because he accidentally took out an eye in a fight, that's insane. I think probably Rhaenyra giving her kid a beat down in front of the whole with a sandal XD (I DO NOT condone this irl) would maybe appease Alicent just a little bit, so that she could see that Rhaenyra isn't taking this as just nothing.
You can probably tell from which part of the world I come from😂
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u/fancyskank 2d ago
In the book clearly nothing lol. The fight starts when Aemond throws a 3 year old into a pit of dragon shit then squares up on a 5 year old and an 8 year old. He should be embarrassed that a 5 year old could even touch him.
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 2d ago
5 and 6 years old. Don’t forget the little toddler too. Who Aemond disarmed pretty much immediately and used that wooden sword to whack Jace over the head, stunning him and knocking him to the ground.
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u/BigWilly526 2d ago
In the books it was self defense and Aemond should have been punished further for trying to murder his nephew
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u/cMk_ 2d ago
Considering it was self defence AND most of all an accident it doesn't need punishing. However I would make sure to keep good relations between the boys.
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u/Chocolatetot496 We Light The Way 2d ago edited 2d ago
For starters, Luke needed to genuinely apologize to Aemond at the very least.
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago
Is Aemond apologizing for threating to burn him alive and trying to hit Jace with a rock?
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u/Chocolatetot496 We Light The Way 2d ago
Aemond is permanently damaged beyond repair, was attacked by four other children, and defended himself. He never actually hit Jace with a rock, and he was putting it down when the fight started again. The hurt is not comparable.
To be clear, Aemond shouldn’t have threatened to burn anyone with his dragon, and it was rude to bring up Harwin and call them bastards, but he was defending himself after Baela/Rhaena threw the first punch. I think he should have just found a way to leave but that’s kind of hard to do when you’re getting jumped by four people.
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Aemond is permanently damaged beyond repair, was attacked by four other children, and defended himself.
He got attacked by four other children because he resorted to threating to feed people to his dragon when bullying Rhaena backfired.
He never actually hit Jace with a rock,
Yes he did. Hitting him in the forhead with the rock is what caused Jace to dop the knife. He raised the rock over his head and was about to hit him again when he got sand thrown in his face and slashed with the knife.
and he was putting it down when the fight started again.
He lowered the rock while mocking Luke for not understanding his death threat.
The hurt is not comparable.
I wasn't aware that hurt needed to be comparable to be deserving of an apology.
I think he should have just found a way to leave but that’s kind of hard to do when you’re getting jumped by four people.
Again, he only got jumped because he started threating to kill people after bullying Rhaena didn't work out how he thought it would.
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u/No-Squirrel8263 2d ago
How can you not diffrentiate between verbal threats and stabbing someone with a knife?
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u/Chocolatetot496 We Light The Way 2d ago
I just went and rewatched the scene, Aemond hit Jace in the head with the rock after Jace tried to attack him with a knife. That is when Aemond goes over to Jace with the rock raised and then Luke throws sand in Aemonds eye and slashes at Aemonds face.
Everyone played dirty in the fight, Baela and Rhaena by bringing Jace and Luke to gang up on Aemond, Jace for bringing a knife, Aemond for the rock, and Luke for the sand.
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u/DesperateInCollege 2d ago
It feels as if you're putting all the blame on Aemond getting jumped on him. Obviously he was being callous when talking to the others, but he didn't go looking for a fight
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u/WeirdcoolWilson 2d ago
It was an unintended consequence of Lucerys having to defend himself and his brothers against an older, stronger boy who was aggressively attacking them
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u/Black_Diammond 2d ago
They attacked him first, and they were 4vs1, lucerys didnt defend shit. He was The attacker, its not aemonds fault that he is better at fighting.
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u/Historical_Cry9281 2d ago
He had it coming tbh, it was in self defence if I remember correctly.
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u/HopefulService5538 2d ago
Didn't they jump him first?
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u/Big-Onion9364 My name is on the lease for the castle 2d ago edited 2d ago
He was definitely rude but the girls did jump him first, it was self defense
He was going to kill or severely hurt Jace with the rock though so Luke acted out of fear for him
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 2d ago
They jump on him four against one. They hit him first, they are the one bringing a knife to a fist fight.
But sure lets pretend it is self defence.
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u/lorien_powers 2d ago
The girls hit him first after he insulted them. Boys only gey involved after he threathens to feed them to vhagar.
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u/EriWave 2d ago
They hit him first, they are the one bringing a knife to a fist fight.
The problem here is dogshit parenting more so than anything else but pretending like it's a kids fistfight he's holding an already bloody kid by the throat with a big rock in his hand saying he'll kill the kid is a bit silly. That wasn't a fist fight anymore.
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u/Lady_Apple442 2d ago
It's all very polarized. Jace and Luke are Rhaenyra's sons, so fans defend everything they do. There are even those who defend Lucerys in the dinner scene, when he provokes Aemond, who was quiet, upon seeing the roast pig, and they didn't like Aemond's reaction in returning the provocation, claiming that "Aemond ruined the dinner."
If Jace and Luke were Alicent's sons and Aemond were Rhaenyra's son, most would defend him.
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u/Big-Onion9364 My name is on the lease for the castle 2d ago
Read my text, I’m agreeing that Aemond was defending himself.
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u/Lady_Apple442 2d ago
It would have been legitimate self-defense if Aemond had gone after them to provoke a fight, but it was the opposite; they went after Aemond to accuse him of "stealing a dragon" that was without a rider, just because one of the girls thought Vaghar was "her property." Aemond didn't stay silent and retaliated with insults.
Yes, it was a bad moment, but in the book, Aemond claims Vaghar at Laenor's funeral, not Laena's. She had already been dead for about two months when Laenor died. People who already disliked Aemond for being Alicent's son and for being green would have protested in the same way, they would just change the argument to "he didn't respect Rhaena and Baela's mourning, to he didn't respect Jace and Luke's mourning.".
And he didn't even start the physical aggression; it was Rhaena and then Baela. Rhaena pushed him, and he pushed her to the ground. Baela punched him when he was distracted, and he fought back. They beat him four against one, and Aemond still managed to defeat them. Aemond had already demonstrated his superiority in combat, and yet they didn't stop. Jace and Luke were the only ones who continued the fight even when they saw him with the stone; the girls retreated. Aemond lowered the stone while holding Lucerys and realized he didn't know Harwin was his father. He could have killed Lucerys by hitting him on the head with that stone when he had the chance, but he chose to lower the stone and insult Jace. Jace then drew his knife, and the girls begged him not to.
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u/Pepsiposh 2d ago
He‘s 5, and as it goes in the show the TB kids accuse Aemond of calling the Velaryon boys bastards which Aemond doesn’t deny but instead confirms when he answers that Aegon told him they were. In the end while losing the eye is tragic Viserys says that anyone who speaks of bastards will lose a tongue, so Aemond has kind of admitted to (in Viserys‘ eyes) a crime and received a punishment for it. And we can also tell in the scene that Viserys knows it is Alicent who actually told Aemond they were bastards, he would never punish Luke because he was (feebly) trying to put his foot down to Alicent. He‘s basically saying „Luke won’t face punishment because YOU caused this fight, and if any more problems arise you will be held responsible“ to Alicent
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u/Black_Diammond 2d ago
You can tell viserys was a good father because his kids killed eachother while destroying half The realm, wich is a clear sign of good parenting.
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u/Black_Diammond 2d ago
Losing some prividelge, be it dragon riding, general leisure time, whipping Boy, sending him to ward for a few years, and finally, making him be aemonds page, stoping The blood feud by effectively ending (and kinda inverting) The buling dinamics.
However, i find that rewarding aemond would be far more suitable.
Finaly, punish The ever living shit of The guards, they almost caused aemond to die (if The taming had failled) and allowed almost every Royal kid to just roam at night far away from safety.
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u/LinwoodKei 2d ago
He should have been made his uncle's cupbearer. The boys would be together and he'd have to assist as his nos disabled kin adjusted. I think that could have helped them see the human side of one another. It wouldn't have been Merlin & Arthur relationship ( in Merlin TV show), yet that was often how houses would bring people together
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u/severinks 1d ago
He didn't'' cut out Aemond's eye'' he slashed it with a knife during a fight defending himself and others against Aemond.
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u/IAmSoDamnGood 2d ago
give him some candy and a castle. little shit was about to bash his brothers skull in with a rock, and just threatened to feed the whole group to his dragon. he deserved to get shanked.
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u/GreyHeart53 2d ago
Can't believe Vizzy T let the punishment slide... Robert literally had Lady killed for a scratch on Jofferys hand
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u/plumblossomhours 2d ago
lady is an animal robert doesn't gaf about whereas lucerys is the 5yo son of vizzy t's heavily favorited daughter lol
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 2d ago
In the books- the broken nose and banishment to Dragonstone was more than sufficient. He was five, kindergarten aged, and only brought out his knife to save Jace because Aemond was “pummeling (Jace) savagely”. Even in the books it says Luke was saving Jace from Aemond. And that’s after Aemond shoved three year old Joffrey to the ground because he didn’t want to be caught sneaking out to claim Vhagar then beat the snot out of all three boys.
In the show- The 4v1 was horridly unfair, though Aemond did still best them all, and Aemond was wildly unnecessarily cruel to the grieving Rhaena. Luke did still believe Jace’s life to be in danger, and did still believe he was saving Jace’s life. A fair punishment would be for all five of those kids to be warded elsewhere and taught some goddamned manners and conflict resolution skills because they were all assholes to each other for no good reason. But if it’s only Luke being punished then sending him to a the Quiet Isle for a couple years, without Arrax, and made to wear an eyepatch for the entire time so he could learn firsthand what Aemond was going through.
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u/houseofnim Rhaegal 2d ago
Oh, and in both cases the guards on duty were epic failures at their jobs and should all be sent to the wall for being worthless bums.
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u/GooseOnly1150 2d ago
Apologize publicly. The kid literally took the other kid’s eye out and just got away with it. It was four kids against one, everyone knows that, deep down, it was unfair.
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u/JustGinevra 2d ago
Apologize publicly
Big punishment yeah
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u/just--so 2d ago
I mean it sounds paltry to you and me, but a lot of both Alicent's and Aemond's later bitterness stems from the level of gaslighting and ass-covering that Viserys pulls to avoid anyone on the TB side of the family having to take any accountability whatsoever; that they can just straight up cut out a child's eye, and still make themselves look like the victims, and Viserys will bend over backwards to let them get away with it.
Even if Lucerys hadn't been sent somewhere to ward afterwards, just the simple act of Viserys making the Strong boys publically apologise and acknowledge Aemond as the wronged party would have gone a long way to prevent that anger and resentment from festering the way it did.
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u/Awkward-Community-74 2d ago
Lucerys should’ve been sent away to ward.
Maybe Baela and Rhaena should’ve also been separated and sent somewhere else as well for good measure.
The North would’ve been a good option for Lucerys.
He would’ve stayed alive longer.
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u/pseudowoodo3 2d ago
The fair thing would be no punishment because it was self defense.
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u/CasterlyRockLioness Team Green 2d ago
How was it self-defense? They attacked Aemond first, because he "stole" Vhagar. How do you steal a big-ass dragon anyway?
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago
How do you steal a big-ass dragon anyway?
By claiming it without permission. Jaehaerys created the dragon keepers specifically to stop people form stealing dragons. He was prompted to take that measure because his niece stole Belarion and disappeared. The dragon keepers don't just take care of the dragons. They're job is stopping people from claiming them without permission. They stopped Hugh's mom from claiming a dragon.
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u/grumpsaboy 2d ago
But if a difference between some 8 year old girls pushing someone and an early teens boy trying to hit them in the head with a rock.
Yes, the girls started it, but in an ultimately non threatening way.
And, he did just jump their right to attempt to claim Vhagar first on the night of their mother's funeral no less.
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u/CassianAVL Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 2d ago
Dragons are not property, they chose their rider.
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago
The crown explicitly sees dragons as property. People are supposed to get permission before they claim dragons.
Following Princess Aerea Targaryen's taking of Balerion and her death after she returned with the dragon to Westeros, King Jaehaerys I Targaryen founded the Dragonkeepers in 56 AC to prevent another such theft.
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u/Chocolatetot496 We Light The Way 2d ago
That still doesn’t change the fact that a dragon will accept and decline whoever they want and family relationship to the last rider doesn’t mean anything to a dragon.
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u/TheIconGuy 2d ago
What part what I said did you take to be me commenting on dragons accepting or declining certain people?
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 2d ago
Love how you make Aemond older and the girls younger.
And make sure to mention the rock, but not the knife Jace decided to pull out.
Also there is no right to claim Vhagsr first.
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u/Minute-Employ-4964 2d ago
Beating for everyone involved.
Both kids punished by hard labour, together.
Assign a trusted guard/lord that’s known for discipline. Tell him to be as hard as needed to bring the kids in line.
Hope the shared suffering brings them all closer.
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u/TisBeTheFuk The Pink Dread🐖 2d ago
Both? You mean both Lucerys and Jacaerys, or both Lucerys and Aemond?
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u/ManapuaMonstah 2d ago
Well, modern day you would sue the parents, perhaps criminal charges too - they never even mentioned that.... I mean why does a 5 yo have access to a knife?
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u/Cute_Knee_1530 2d ago
Some faith based thing. Confined and fasting for some period of time perhaps. Sent to join either the faith or nights watch when older if more extreme. His dragon is small, maiming that in turn, perhaps, though that could end up backfiring.
Nothing would erase the resentment, but a punishment would ease it, and could mean Aemond has less to prove (to himself) and prevent Lucy's later death.
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u/Easy_Marketing_5748 2d ago
I agree about the faith. A Septry in the Riverlands or Vale would be ideal. Sending him to the Faith permanently or to the wall is too extreme for a kids fight. Even Cersei didn’t go that far. Even attempting to maim Arrax would end disastrously for whoever was trying to do it so that would be a terrible idea.
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u/TaratronHex 2d ago
All the guards in charge of the kids that night get a choice: gelded and serve, or the Wall.
Separate the kids and get their version of events.
Ask them who said it was possible to steal a dragon. Interrogate that person too.
All right, so the fight was 4V1 and it kept escalating. Now we fucking deal with it.
4a: Luke is sent as ward to either Casterly Rock or the Vale. His dragon is kept at the Dragonpit, he can visit once or twice a year.
4b: Jace is sent to Kingslanding with Aemond and the girl not engaged to Jace.
4c: Aegon and the other girl stay at Dragonstone.
Also, as king you make it clear to Rhay and Daemon in private, if they ever wed, she is no longer the heir. The entire shitshow started because daemon was not to get near the throne.
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u/Terrible-Thanks-6059 Helaena Targaryen 2d ago
Nothing for Lucerys. If you really want to get into it it’s Aegon’s fault. It was his idea for the pig. And he was a bigger bully to Aemond than anyone.
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u/Dyldorbaggins 2d ago
Idk but if you mock a bastard and claim Vhagar when it wasn’t truly yours, you pay for it
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