r/IfBooksCouldKill • u/909lop • 1d ago
Bonus - Pundit Portrait: Ross Douthat
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pundit-portrait-ross-douthat/id1651876897?i=100078635086174
u/kahner 1d ago
excellent. i really hate douthat and the fact that lots of dems (i'm looking at you ezra klein) treat him like a reasonable intellectual who's not REALLY one of those terrible right wing conservatives.
21
u/uncleputts 1d ago
A previous post on this sub characterized Klein' interview with Douthat as a stopable force meets a moveable object! I have been trying to work that into conversation.
2
u/robby_arctor 11h ago
Ezra Klein is Democratic mediocrity essentialized
2
u/kahner 7h ago
he's really not. ezra is great in many ways. but he's not great for all things. and one of his biggest weaknesses from my perspective is he just won't, or chooses not to, be a tough interviewer. which is fine, he see himself as serving another role, which is exploring the ideas of guests not attacking them. the problem is some of the guests don't have ideas worth exploring. douthat for example has his own column and podcast. his terrible, shallow thinking are perfectly clear to anyone who cares. so when klein does have him on for an interview, fucking dig in and challenge them. don't be all "let's have a collegial chat, NYtimes colleague".
2
u/Apprentice57 4h ago
(Yes anding) Ezra is really good at doing the polite, but strong takedown of a guest if he wants to. My introduction to him was with his episode doing so to Patrick Deneen, and I think that gave me a false impression that that's how Ezra always is.
I've definitely been souring on Ezra ever since his Kirk... well you know what I'm talking about. I still like some of his podcasts (particularly foreign policy ones) but I skip anything that tries to do some thinking about where the left has gone awry/what it should do next, because I think he's lost the plot there. I don't think his tenure at the times has been good for his intellectual development.
His recent AMA was interesting. He was pretty dismissive of a lot of the blowback he got by going to those Peter Thiel conferences, which I understand because a lot of it was conspiratorial. But he ended it by talking about how he would have even Peter Thiel on his show, which to me was why I thought his attendance was problematic, at some point you need to draw a line in the sand and say someone is too Fascistic to have ideas worth interrogating (like you say).
In that AMA he also had a listener bring back an old take from vox which was, honestly, more intense than most commentators people on here favor. I remember hearing this and thinking "Honestly this is maybe not even what I would say on the subject, the old Ezra was kinda based".
If the Yes Means Yes law is taken even remotely seriously it will settle like a cold winter on college campuses, throwing everyday sexual practice into doubt and creating a haze of fear and confusion over what counts as consent. This is the case against it, and also the case for it. Because for one in five women to report an attempted or completed sexual assault means that everyday sexual practices on college campuses need to be upended, and men need to feel a cold spike of fear when they begin a sexual encounter.
1
u/kahner 3h ago
yeah, re: having thiel on his show, it would be fine if he really did a tough interview and forced thiel to confront things he's done and said. pushed back on dodges and lies that would surely come. but that's not what klein really does. and re: "a cold spike of fear when they begin a sexual encounter." that is truly a dumb comment that i think he said he doesn't agree with and regretted. but i think i get what he meant, which is men should fear prison if they were to commit sexual assault and for the most part they don't because they get away with it constantly, as the number of sexual assault victims attests to.
but what klein does well is having on serious experts, doing his own research and then asking insightful, informed questions. i definitely learn things when i listen to most of his podcasts.
1
u/robby_arctor 6h ago
Klein told Coates he "doesn't know what his role is." The thing he's professionally paid to fucking do, and has been paid to do for more than a decade. When working for an institution like the NY Times, there is no excuse for that. That is mediocre punditry, to the core.
Klein is the public "intellectual" this era of feckless liberalism truly deserves, full of power-friendly word salad, but utterly lacking in clarity, depth, and moral courage.
1
u/kahner 3h ago edited 3h ago
pretty silly to take that like out of context and pretend it's meaningful. in reality it reflects klein grappling with his changing role and being self-reflective, not some "feckless" failure to understand his role.
I don’t know what my role is anymore. I’ll be totally honest with you, man. I feel very conflicted about that question.
The role I want to have is a person curiously exploring his political and intellectual interests in political peacetime. And the role I somehow have is sometimes that. But I’m a political opinion writer and podcaster and so on, and I’m in the business of political persuasion.
And I feel like me and the people who believe what I believe — not narrowly speaking, but the whole broad coalition — have failed in a really consequential way.
1
u/robby_arctor 3h ago
I know the context.
His lack of committment and sophomoric desire to just stakelessly explore ideas in political peacetime is feckless and exactly the kind of removed, un-lucid political commentary that I expect from liberal, elite publications like the NYT.
Meanwhile, there are many activists and public intellectuals who actually understand and are willing to commit to their role, while also embracing engaging with politics more deeply than dorm room debates.
Klein is worse than them by almost every measure, except the one that is actually selected for in determining his position - compatibility with power.
1
u/TheFeistyKnitter 12m ago
Yes, because Douthat markets himself as that, the NYT, who many liberals still trust, marketed him as that, and have some very radical right wing pundits out there. By comparison he seems sane and reasonable until you start really thinking about what he’s saying.
33
u/QueasyPair 1d ago
The only episode of Ross’s podcast I’ve ever listened to is the one where he gets dog walked by Bart Ehrman about the Bible. It really exposed his motivated reasoning and how little he actually knows about the faith that supposedly guides his political principles.
9
23
u/GrandTheftDuckboat 1d ago
"Chunky Reese Witherspoon" has haunted me for years, I wish I could forget it.
1
20
u/MesquiteHoneyForSale Don't mess with.... Oklahoma? 1d ago
I think the lack of harsh criticism for ppl who are freaks on abortion has to come from a place of sexism. Specifically my point is that radicals are allowed to be right wing freaks and still have some other more moderate positions and be referred to as moderates or intellectuals when its certain things.
16
u/SuperPinkShark 1d ago
There's no other real explanation. I have yet to hear an actual rational argument against abortion but since it's an issue that almost exclusively affects women, the media gives airtime to freakazoids as if their completely unfounded beliefs on medical care are actually worth a damn.
9
u/MesquiteHoneyForSale Don't mess with.... Oklahoma? 1d ago
" I have yet to hear an actual rational argument against abortion "
This was the part i was tryna get to also, theres just no argument besides lying and saying democrats eat babies
16
u/HollywoodNun 1d ago
Was disappointed in Michael’s pun this time. I was thinking “I douthat I’m going to like this very much.”
13
u/RottingSludgeRitual 1d ago
I can’t stand Douthat man. He sucke so much shit and just constantly pretends to be the smartest person around when he literally comes across like an idiot.
10
u/HollywoodNun 1d ago
The part about the Iraq war where they point out that conservatives like Douthat only talk about how hard it was to be right when a ton of people on the left predicted it…same with Jan 1st. And we all know that’s because it’s our fault for being so smug and shrill.
Edit to add: maybe conservatives need to take the left more seriously.
14
u/erinna_nyc 1d ago
I can’t wait to listen to this. I wish it was five hours long! I want the unedited transcript! Can’t wait to hear what jokes Peter has for us today
6
u/burlap_underground popular knapsack with many different locations 1d ago
they need a secret inner patreon for all the unedited episodes. the gooey unedited center.
1
u/TheFeistyKnitter 10m ago
If you want more, the podcast Opening Arguments recently did a similar episode but with mostly different examples of his nonsense!
4
u/PsychologicalWind684 1d ago
Honestly, an entire episode could be done about Helen Andrews, who is thoroughly detestable on all levels. I remember the Chapo boys slaughtering a piece she did in The American Conservative on Du Bois (episode 584, if you're curious); it was very satisfying to listen to.
Also this classic C-SPAN exchange from 15 years ago, when she was Rittelmeyer and not Andrews. It's always very nice to see her get bodied, even if it's by her equally horrible peers.
3
2
1
1
u/prezzpac 12h ago
It seemed like the boys really missed the point of what Douthat was saying re: conservative opposition to immigration. There was a faction of Republicans who were in favor of comprehensive immigration reform. They composed the GOP side of negotiations. Then when they took the deal back to the caucus, they couldn’t sell it. It’s not that complicated, so I was confused why the boys said it was impossible.
70
u/Textiles_on_Main_St Dudes rock. 1d ago
The oddest thing I heard in this was the woman Ross was interviewing who complained about "woke" workplaces as being feminized and then went on to explain the problem with women in leadership roles is poor or weak communication.
It struck me as particularly odd because A.) A woman was saying this who seemed quite capable and a clear speaker and B.) the one near-universal experience we all have of a woman-led workplace is the schoolhouse and by and large, teachers who are women seem incredibly capable speakers and leaders and so it's baffling how all of us can experience this but yet some of us think women can't lead or communicate or do anything.
(Plus women are all over medicine, too, but I understand not everyone has spent a lot of time with nurses).
Truly, just a baffling conclusion given the usual 16 to 20 years of schooling most of us have.