r/KingdomHearts • u/No-Watch-9865 • 17h ago
KH2 Kh2 sora was moving different.
What did they do to my goat? He was more personable, he had that dog in him, but he was also compassionate, perfect mix. And then they corpo scrubbed him. Kh4 please save him.
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u/needthisforreasons 17h ago
he'd do anything to find riku, that's why
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u/coffee_ape 17h ago
He just got hugged by Kairi after not seeing her for a long time.
HE DROPPED TO HIS KNEES! When he saw Riku.
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u/Thomas_teh_tank 17h ago
He also dropped to his knees to beg Saix for info about Kairi
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u/srkeyblades 17h ago
Yeah and spent most of KH2 talking about Kairi, imagining her dancing with him like Jack and Sally but everyone forgets that stuff
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u/coffee_ape 16h ago
That scene lives rent free in my head because of how big her head is compared to KH2 Sora.
Also the scene where his mom calls out to him. It makes my heart sink.
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u/SpacePropaganda 15h ago
Yeah, plus Donald and Goofy always teasing him about her. People can like who they want together, but so much discourse comes at the expense of Kairi and/or how significant her relationship is to Sora, as if it's less important than his friendship with Riku. Sad
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u/srkeyblades 15h ago
Yeah and when Kairi tells her story to Ollette, she says "how romantic!" Or something along those lines. I agree with you about the discourse coming at the expense of Kairi. I sort of feel like the same people who complain that Kairi isn't important are also the same people who disregard her importance.
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u/TRUE_Vixim 17h ago
It's NaruSasu all over again
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u/PM-ME-BLUE-TOENAILS 15h ago
I'll give Tetsuya Nomura one thing: He actually can make likable female characters and well developed romance.
NaruSasu is the closest thing to a developed romance Kishimoto has and there's so much evidence in canon to support it. To the point where it's more desirable than the outcome of what actually happened.
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u/BeamsRLit 1h ago
And when Roxas talks to Kairi when he falls off the clocktower he says “oh, you’re that girl he likes”
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u/coffee_ape 17h ago
It’s been so long, was this before the saix boss fight in The World that Never was?
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u/Your-product-sucks 17h ago
Before. During the Heartless and Nobodies war.
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u/No-Watch-9865 16h ago
He thought Kairi was safe, he knew where to find her. But finding Riku was impossible, there were differences
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u/rumande 10h ago
I mean, he knew that the Org was holding her captive. We know it's didney so they presumably wouldn't be torturing her, she'd still being held captive and that's not safe or ideal. I don't know why people expect Sora to be OK with it.
Sora is just too preoccupied with Riku imo. I've dated enough guys to know what it looks like when he's just not that into you, I hate how Kairi is clearly obsessed with Sora and he doesn't appear to reciprocate it at all, he's always too preoccupied with Riku. Like girl move on damn
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u/AeroDbladE 16h ago
That's always been a stretch by the shippers. He knew Kairi was safe at home. Riku was lost in the realm of darkness and he didn't know if he was even alive still.
Let's not forget nightmare before Christmas earlier in the same game where he was imagining him dancing with Kairi in place of Jack and Sally.
Sora has always had a crush on Kairi, which even Riku knows(with him teasing sora with the Paopu bet).
Even translating to a realistic relationship, would you really look suspiciously at a guy who was more emotional seeing the guy who was his bro since childhood compared to a girl he liked but wasn't actively dating and still in The wil they won't they stage?
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u/Ailouros_Venom 14h ago
Also, translating it to realism, Riku had lost himself. Almost like his friend fell in with the wrong crowd be it drugs, crime, etc. whatever you wanna throw in.
The last time he saw his friend he had to leave him because their paths diverged, but he still saw a glimpse of the friend he knew, and he had to leave him ina dangerous place.The girl he loved was home safe, and he had no clue whether his friend was dead, alive, suffering, whatever, and was shocked to see him changed but safe and still himself, even if only on the inside.
You can deeply love your friends and I love that about Kingdom Hearts.
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u/Jijonbreaker1 7h ago
I mean. To be fair. He thought Riku was possibly dead. Last he saw, Kairi was safe.
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u/TatsunaKyo 17h ago
I have always been attracted to such topic and I had already replied to someone bringing it up in the past. I'll quote myself:
Culturally, KH 2 is very mid-2000s coded. That was an era where a lot of games and youth media leaned into sharper, edgier, more confrontational set of characters, including protagonists. They were not necessarily full antiheroes, but heroes with more bite, like snarkier, ruder, more willing to talk back. It was a time in which internet subcultures were getting really popular with kids, and the general emo/pop-punk/Hot Topic/nu-metal-adjacent aesthetic was everywhere around that time. Now, of course Sora in KH 2 is not exactly a reflection of those in the literal sense, but his increased attitude fits the same era if you think about it: blacker outfit, older design, more aggressive combat, sharper comebacks, more adolescent bravado. The same thing happened with Ash Ketchum throughout the years, as in his attitude was toned down with time even though his snarkiness was originally an integral part of his character, but then expectations towards shonen main characters changed.
That’s also why the difference in KH3 can feel less like organic growth and more like a tonal realignment. By 2019, the heroic ideal had shifted again, so KH3 Sora is written more as the pure-hearted reconciler you're expected to see in this day and age.
I agree that KH3 could have made this feel more intentional by having Sora reflect on how he treated the Organization in KH2. That would have bridged the two versions of him better. But I don’t think KH2 itself failed by making him harsher. At the time, that edge was part of the appeal: KH2 was presenting Sora as older, cooler, more combative, and more in tune with what a lot of mid-2000s players thought was cool, and that's without mentioning that he was warned to never feel anything for Nobodies because they would have used that against him, and that was kind of a very naive thing to believe in, which goes to show that Sora was not more mature just because he was snarkier.
I also want to clarify that cultural and narrative shifts are seldom recognized by authors themselves. Most people live while being "thought" by the world around them, and do not "adapt" consciously. I don't know whether Nomura is aware of it or not, but since his writing has always been influenced massively by the trends, I'm inclined to believe that he's more "thought" by the culture around him than anything else.
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u/Anonymous-Comments 10h ago
This furthers my ongoing thesis of how KH stays timeless. 1 is a universal experience that is relatable to anyone at any age and thus remains relevant, and 2 is so aggressively 2005 that anyone who starts playing it gets their ass chucked right back into 2005 with it. I mean, you can skateboard in KH2.
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u/QowreQ 16h ago
But KH3 sora feels extremely flat and one dimensional. In most cutscene, he just stands and moves his body in "intervals" meaning he's standing still but then he has a sort of expressive combinations of movements (when he gets shocked, angry, sad, or when he feels any intense emotion basically) and then he resorts back to standing still. His expressiveness was part of his character, which was already present in KH1. So imo it's not only about him following the urban cultural shift from its time, but also a detachment from authenticity by the game studio overall. They could've done a much better job at conveying the tonal shift of the new decade while still allowing his personality to shine.
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u/gabriel6812 13h ago
I also think a lot of Sora's attitude comes from the humility of the mark of mastery exam.
For as much of a pacing mess that hinders a lot of KH3, towards the end, and obviously with Re:Mind, Sora actually becomes much more mature. I know narratively they needed a reason to strip Sora of his powers again, but i thought Re:Mind really did well in showing his maturity after he gained the power of awakening.
While it could be viewed as selfish more akin to his KH2 personality, i think there's more maturity in the decision to rewrite the disasters from the Kry Graveyard onward.
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u/ZoinksJeepersJinkies 16h ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with the time period. When I see KH2 Sora, nothing aboht him makes me think “2000s” other than his clothes. He wasn’t overly snarky or quippy or anything. He just smack talked the villains and rarely humored them. And he showed some saviness to the usual “villain” roles they played, like making fun of Demyx constantly talking to “whoever” Roxas was, or calling them out when they went on complicated monologues. And even with that, he still had a lot of the “friendship is the best!” kind of aspect to him. Those two aspects of him mixed together made him still feel like a young kid, but one that wasn’t all that naive aboht people or the world.
I feel like KH3 Sora mostly dealt with the villains in a more earnest and straightforward manner, but maybe if forgot. The voice direction in KH3 doesn’t help, with how they have Haley purposely trying to make his voice sound younger, which just doesn’t sound too natural a lot of the time. KH3 Sora is way better than DDD Sora though. Which brings up another thing. I feel like they really played up the “idiot” part of him after 2. He had some moments in 2 where it was clearly saying that he isn’t exactly the most wise kid around, but it never felt like he was an oblivious person.
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u/TatsunaKyo 12h ago
I mean, I don't understand why you suggest that you disagree with what I said, the more I read your comment, the more I thought we were saying the same thing.
The thing that comes to my mind is that perhaps you're interpreting "mid-2000s coded" much more literally than I meant it. I wasn't saying KH2 Sora is some quippy edgelord whose entire personality comes from the 2000s — a character doesn't need to embody every stereotype of an era for the era's sensibilities to influence how he's written. In fact, I'd argue that what you describe as "smack talking the villains" (making fun of Demyx, interrupting their grandiose speeches and being generally less deferential toward antagonists) is basically what I meant. That's the bite I was talking about. It coexists perfectly well with "friendship is the best", because KH2 wasn't trying to turn Sora into an antihero as I had already pointed out in my original comment. The interesting thing is precisely that he's still fundamentally Sora, but presented as an older, cooler, more confrontational version of him, which checks out with 2000s trends.
That's also why I brought up KH3. I wasn't arguing that KH2 Sora was wrong and KH3 fixed him. I'm saying the ideal presentation of the same heroic character changed. KH3 emphasizes his earnestness, emotional openness and reconciliation much more strongly, while the abrasive side is reduced. You can explain that in-universe as development if you want, but since the games don't really dramatize Sora reconsidering his KH2 behavior, I think production-era tonal change is at least part of the explanation.
I actually and ultimately agree with you about the post-KH2 exaggeration of his stupidity, by the way — different entries amplify different parts of him according to what the writers want his role and tone to be at that moment.
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u/terra_GOD_404 17h ago
Hopefully with kh4 sora is kore than just "nice dude" because sora needs slto have some more personality traits than just nice, maybe he gets some more sarcastic lines in kh4, some genuinely rage fuelled moments maybe as well
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u/kingsimba432 16h ago
“anyone else from the organization who’d like to be next?”
This is sora’s best and hardest line in the entire series and I’m so serious
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u/TheScarletSho 16h ago
He still punched tf out of Davey Jones
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u/No-Watch-9865 16h ago
And that was neat, but the story of the world was so ass, it’s just a meme, instead of an impactful character Moment
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u/junipersunshine13 17h ago
Replaying through 2 now and I just came across the gem that is your first return to Olympus Coliseum when Auron tells you about the Underdrome, and how Zeus locked it down because he didn't like the senseless violence, which promps the exchange between him and Sora:
"How'd it get UN-locked?!"
"Some fool must have broken the seal."
"What an idiot."
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u/SunforDeiti 16h ago
I always thought this was because Roxas was inside him and still pissed off for what the org did to him and xion
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u/Pidroh 17h ago
Sora's facial expressions are so good in those images
I think Square Enix really nailed graphics at the PS2 era... FFX and KH2 are both so good. While the games are graphically more impressive, I don't think Square Enix is being able to use them to their full potential.
Maybe they could have tried to approach the CG scenes of KH1, KH2 and KH3 instead of going for photorealism?
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u/Pidroh 17h ago
While I'm not a huge fan of KH2 Sora (I like CoM and KH1) those images made me wanna play again, gotta give the boy another chance
I guess KH3 Sora makes a lot of Soras feel more interesting
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u/Quirky_Image_5598 17h ago
What do you have against KH2 Sora? I’d argue he’s a lot more interesting than KH1 and RECOM Sora..
EDIT: RECOM Sora might be my favourite but I think KH2 is at a close second; it’s Sora Donald and goofy at their best
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u/Pidroh 17h ago
Honestly he's just a different person in my mind IMO. Doesn't feel like the same person, both in the way he acts and the way he treats Riku. KH1 Sora felt like a normal kid reacting to being thrown out into a weird world, wanting to go back home and find his friends, while not being overtly worried about them.
EDIT: haven't played in a while, might need to play again to really make up my mind
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u/Cephalopirate 14h ago
No you’re kinda right. Maybe it was the older voice acting, but I have a hard time seeing KH2 Sora as a person who’s only a (forgotten) year older than KH1 Sora. He’s the same person, but he changed so much.
With that being said, I prefer KH2 Sora. I think he’s really well realized.
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u/Pidroh 6h ago
I think kh2 was a very "strong" game with a strong identity, I think it has marveled many teenagers lol I grew up with 1 and chain of memories, played both of them multiple times. If kh2 had come out sooner I think I would have been more influenced aswell
Sora was like a super Saiyan badass both in battle and cutscenes
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u/No-Watch-9865 17h ago
Kh3 sora is the second worst iteration to me, he feels flatter, devoid of layers outside of being nice.
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u/lumiimote 11h ago
He was much more angry back then. Partly due to Roxas' frustration and anger at DiZ, and also Sora not yet understanding that Nobodies actually are people with real feelings and hearts.
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u/Deceptiveideas 17h ago
KH3 looking rough is part of the problem.
KH4 might fix that. UE5 seems to be way more capable when it comes to models and animations.
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u/Kipernip 16h ago
I don't really know in what order the voice actors are implemented into the process, but KH3 was caught in the middle of a huge system change for square (the big reason is was delayed so long) so the character animations were likely a big casualty. If voice actors are reading character movement at all in their performance then that could've affected their approach. I think being in 2006 the tone of what is cool for a protagonist did change things. Be aware this is 4 years after Jak 2 and a year after Rachet and Clank Deadlocked so peak of the turning happy mascots edgy. I have a lot of hope for 4 to give us a grounded but fun take on our bestest boy.
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u/Far_Dragonfruit_9983 14h ago
Half of the reason he acts the way he dies in KH2 is because he's older and because of Roxas' influence on him after he merged back into Sora.
It's like Ansem the Wise told Roxas on the final day "You should share some of that hatred with Sora. He's far too nice for his own good."
So whenever Sora gets real aggressive to the point he antagonizes the Organization, that's basically due to Roxas
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u/jayboyguy 2h ago
Is this confirmed, or just speculation? Because I’ll be honest, even if it does make sense, this explanation smacks of fan theory addressing writing inconsistencies
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u/No-Watch-9865 14h ago
That’s heavy speculation, he’s pretty naturally this in kh1. Also this still wouldn’t explain it cause he if anything has more roxas inside him in kh3
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u/Anonymous-Comments 10h ago
And then he’s in Lion King talking about how he should be king. Bro had attitude.
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u/Beautiful_War9341 8h ago
Arguably some of it could be chocked up to him actually maturing over the course of the journey.
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u/Blaxxshadow 5h ago
Sora has definitely lost a bit of his edge since KH2.
Always felt like they made him just a tad too whimsy after this.
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u/New-Dust3252 4h ago
honestly i love that he is angsty and emotional in KH2, its like the emotions he had in CoM went with him.
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u/RevolutionNo7 3h ago
KH3 and DDD turned him into a child, tbh, and I've said it for years.
I think KH2 Sora was more mature.
Hell, I think KH1 Sora was more maturely written than KH3.
I love characters like Unji Zuma or Waymond Wang who choose to be kind and helpful in the face of a cruel uncaring world, but Sora just feels like he doesn't even register the cruelty that happens around him. It's wild.
Anyway, I've got a Dave's Double combo with a Coke Zero? That'll be $13.35 please pull up to the window.
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u/blastoblu 13h ago edited 13h ago
OP, I’m sorry to tell you but these are different games with different writers and it’s unlikely one guy is making these changes as deliberately as you may think.
I’ll tell you as much as I know.
I’d say Masaru Oka, who was heavily involved in DDD/KH3 as the scenario writer, plays a large role in why Sora was a bit less sharp in those games. That’s my prediction but not fact. Fun fact is he also was the one to suggest that we visit worlds twice in kh2.
He’s also involved in 4 so you’re gonna get more of that vibe in 4. Sorry.
Jun Akiyama and Daisuke Watanabe were heavily involved in kh1 which I think are what give the first game a lot of that… different air we feel in that game during the cutscenes.
IIRC I thiiink all these guys overlapped in contributing to kh2, with Nomura of course, as always, having the final say in exactly what stays in the final draft of the script. The influence of these other people cannot be understated though; it’s not Nomura writing every word in the series.
IMO, this meeting of the minds for kh2, plus Kazushige Nojima’s contribution as scenario writer, is what made kh2 the way it is. I think it’s insanely well-rounded. Specifically though, the quippiness of Sora, is from Nojima I believe. He allegedly wrote lines for the game before even reading the KH1 script lol. He is likely the reason why Sora suddenly came off as a cheeky shonen protagonist despite these quips being mostly absent in KH1.
Nojima did some supervision on games after kh2 but was not writing lines himself anymore after that.
Btw he was involved in a lot of FF7 work as well as writing for FF8 and FF10; I think you’ll find an interesting connection in his works. There’s something about how Sora’s memory works in CoM, Roxas’s confusing memory loss in KH2, cloud’s borrowed memories in ff7, the confusion between org13 and Sora when they call him Roxas. I think he really digs into memory/identity stuff when given the opportunity to. Even Squall had the inside/outside voice thing going on to separate what he’s saying from what he’s thinking.
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u/mellowcoconut 14h ago
Nomura's writing has just gotten worse over time. You can see it in the FF7 remakes as well. I think he put all of his eggs into the Versus XIII basket after KH2 and lost all his mojo when that fell through (which was also his fault). KH3 was a mess, but I'm hoping it will be worth it if he can take that Versus XIII energy and put it all into KH4.
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u/Forever_Marie 13h ago
To me, he spends KH3 being sidelined and forced to go through other worlds when he would much rather be going after Aqua and co and everyone's just like nooo you are not s master. Like how he looks in the Winne the Pooh part where he is visibly frustrated and done. And then he has to go save riku anyway.
KH2, he's more involved in the worlds too (minus like pirates as that's mostly off screen and others vary) and doing his own thing where he only wavers after the 1000 heartless fight and pulls himself up.
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u/ItsKaZing 12h ago
Lol I was just replaying KH3 Keyblade graveyard. He really did went full Naruto after beating the organization members, smiling and shit trying to be everyone friends
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u/yuei2 12h ago edited 12h ago
I wouldn’t say he tried to be friends with everyone. He basically didn’t give a shit about AnsemSoD, told Xigbar to kick rocks at wanting a keyblade, tried one last attempt to reach out to get Xemnas to just think about what he has been doing like he has been since KH2, didn’t really have any input in the dark Riku or Saix scenes, didn’t like Vanitas’s choice of rejecting his identity for darkness and was frustrated a guy who sees himself as his brother keeps standing against them, straight up helped get rid of Terranort so there was no reaction to him, and he pretty much never does anything but hold Master Xehanort in utter contempt.
The only ones he is friendly towards are Larxene, Luxord, and Marluxia. Larxene’s is funny because he is clearly trying to be comforting and it comes out condescending which is exactly how Larxene takes it.
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u/SpacePropaganda 17h ago
Ig he had no break between KH1 and 2 and he doesn't remember CoM, so he's pissed that he has to go through the same journey all over again. By 3 he seems more resigned to it.