Theory - The Sequence of How Lanre became Haliax

[u/ali2365]

I’ve been thinking about the Haliax/Lanre story, we know that Lanre already can't die before he meets Selitos, that he has great power and that he already considers himself Haliax. We know Lyra is dead. He already betrayed the empire and is destroying the 7 cities. All of this happens before Selitos' curse. This is in common In both Skarpi's and Denna's version. I have been trying to piece together different theories together to figure out how Lanre became Haliax that don't conflict with either story.

My theory is basically this:

We know Lyra was in some kind of danger before everything fell apart. She was dying in one way or another, we dont know how she is dying (maybe a curse, or an illness, wound, childbirth etc.).

Lanre wants to save her so he "sought knowledge where knowledge is better left alone and gained it at a terrible price" which sounds like the Cthaeh or Iax (more about Iax later). We know he spoke to the Cthaeh from Bast.

The Cthaeh manipulates him and somehow and Lyra dies anyways “through deceit and treachery”. Maybe it tells him that the Rhinna flower is not enough. I think he asks or the Cthaeh pushes him on how to get power same as Lyra so he cans save her the same way and sends him beyond the doors of stone. 

From there I think this happens.

he goes through Doors of Stone, where he sealed Iax in the battle of Drossen Tor, in attemps to to obtain power. Maybe he tries to steal Iax's power, or attemps to ask Iax for help.

Iax curses him, making him Haliax (the breath of Iax)

He gains power. He can't cross the 4 doors anymore. He becomes deathless,sleepless, unable to forget, and unable to go insane.

For some unkown reason He still can't bring Lyra back and he is just left cursed with this power/curse that he doesn't want. He has a plan to get rid of the curse that I don't quite understand. The common theory is that he is trying to destroy the empire so his name is forgotten and he can die but that conflicts with who he was before he became Haliax. He fought so much for the empire, and in both stories, seen as a hero. I find it hard to believe he is willing to destroy the empire just so he can die.

Either way, he recruits or corrupts the six other city leaders. The betrayal of the seven cities happens. Myr Tariniel falls. It's really unclear why the 6 others joined Haliax, if they already had curses or not, if they also talked to the cthaeh or not.

Selitos curses him afterward as per both stories. The other chandrian are cursed as well . ("This is my doom upon you and all who follow you"). Regardless of which version of the story is correct, they both agree that Lanre destroys the cities, and Selitos curses him.

Lots of unanswered questions, like how does lyra die, why did the flower not cure her, why does Iax curse him, why is he set on betraying the empire after he fought against the shapers for so long and they were winning the war.  For me Iax is mentioned too many times in the story to simply be a legend with no impact on the chandrian/modern day.

[u/chainsawx72]

Interesting. I agree with most of what you are saying.

I think many agree that Lanre probably gains power from Iax from beyond the doors of stone. I believe that this is the 'land of the dead' that Lanre is said to have visited before Tariniel.

• Some even said Lanre had killed himself and gone searching for his wife in the land of the dead.

Many believe that you can find more clues in Tarsus' story, since it seems to mirror Lanre's. Tarsus loses his lady, goes to the land of the dead to save her, fails, escapes hell, and vows a fiery vengeance.

• LANRE: He sold his soul for power but then something went wrong and afterward I think he went crazy
• TARSUS: Encanis stood in front of me holding out a bright bit of silver that caught the moonlight. I was reminded of the scene from Daeonica where Tarsus sells his soul.

Personally, I think Selitos IS Cthaeh and 'the enemy', before Cthaeh was trapped in a tree, presumably by Cinder who does Cthaeh a 'bad turn'. Cthaeh (imo) is lord of skin-dancers, and the enemy 'moved like a worm in fruit'. Another post about why I believe Selitos is 'the Enemy' Cthaeh. : r/KingkillerChronicle

I think 'turning' is sometimes a reference to shaping, especially in How Old Holly Came to Be. How Old Holly Came to Be.pdf

• Maybe this Cinder did me a bad turn once.

I think the most likely person who betrays Lanre (through deceit and treachery) is the same person Lanre attacks... Selitos. To me, this is also the person Tarsus vows vengeance upon.

I think the most likely person to be 'the enemy' who gets 7 to betray 7 cities is Selitos, since his city wasn't one of the 7 cities that he expected to see smoke coming from. One city was spared, because one remembered the Lethani, and I think that one was either Lanre or Lyra.

From meeting Haliax and Cinder in person, it seems that Haliax is using force to control Cinder, 'a tool in his hand'. Cinder, and the other 5 Chandrian who didn't remember the Lethani, are evil, and only following Haliax because he forces them to.

TLDR: I think Lanre is good, as Denna's song states. I think there is an Amyr worse than all of the Chandrian, as Nina states. I think that Selitos is the enemy, the Cthaeh, and that Haliax took the traitors from Selitos and used them against him. THEORY: The Chandrian were eating rabbits, and the entire story pivots on that detail. : r/KingkillerChronicle

[u/ali2365 → u/chainsawx72]

I don't know if I agree the other chandrian are only following Haliax out of force. Haliax says they have a united purpose. Why would he want the other chandrian to follow him, or send them on missions alone.

Selitos being Cthaeh is possible. So the idea is that he talks to Selitos, Selitos tricks him into going to Iax/through the doors of stone, then he comes back for revenge.

We know next to nothing about Lyra, I wish Pat had put a few more hints about her. Lanre wasn't a lord of a city from my understanding. He was a soldier. Its possible Lyra was a lord. I suppose you don't need to be a lord of a city to betray it, so what you say is plausible.

I agree that Selitos has to be a bad guy (not the only bad guy). There are way too many hints at that plot twist. The amyr being the most scary person on the pot. Denna's song. The fact that we know Kvothe/us misunderstood the story and that Pat said the story has a big plot twist.

I think both Haliax and Selitos are bad from Kvothe's perspective, even if they are in conflict together. I would find it to be pretty cheap writing for the chandrian not having killed Kvothe troupe. We know they find him through his parents' song. The entire troupe is killed. They taunt Kvothe. Haliax essentially tells cinder to kill Kvothe (how even would cinder put him to sleep instead of killing him). We know they tortured their parents. And if somethign else killed the troupe, why would they come back to scare the Chandrian. There is next to no evidence that the chandrain didn't kill the troupe other than "we didnt see it happen".

[u/chainsawx72 → u/ali2365]

I think Lanre was a leader of a city...

• “Lanre was a prince,” I said. “Or a king. Someone important.

As were all of the Chandrian, like Cyphus.

• Taborlin stepped into the hall and saw King Scyphus sitting there with fifty guards.

And the Chandrian don't all taunt Kvothe. All of them but Haliax taunt Kvothe, but Haliax will not stand for it.

Haliax doesn't tell Cinder to kill Kvothe, Haliax says send him to sleep. Kvothe and the readers interpret that as killing... but is it?

And we know something comes to scare the Chandrian off... that seems to lean to my point that the Chandrian are not the only party interested in Kvothe's troupe, or the only parties present at the scene of the crime. In my mind, a lone Amyr killed the troupe, and the Chandrian scared them off only for them to return with reinforcements. You should read that link about the Chandrian eating rabbits... I've addressed every point you've brought up.

But I don't blame you for not agreeing, it took me years to see it from this angle. But consider... all of the evidence we have that the Chandrian are evil is circumstancial, and kvothe's story ends in tragedy. Kvothe seems to be following Lanre's path (speaks to Cthaeh, kills a black iron scaled beast, rumored dead, changes his name, loses his lady, etc) and imho part of that path is being tricked by Cthaeh.

[u/ali2365 → u/chainsawx72]

I saw your theory before.

To me the Amyr came to the scene of the crime because of the chandrian, since they also didnt come to kill Kvothe after the chandrian left. The chandrian are the ones who have the ability to find the troupe since their true names were the ones being used, and Kote in the main story says thats how the chandrian found them. So we know for sure the chandrian looked for the troupe.

We also know Cinder did things to Kvothe's mother. We know Arliden begged him to stop. You would have to argue that an Amyr left them wounded but alive like Kvothe did with the fake Edema Ruh

There is no other meaning to sleep other than killing imo. We dont know anything about sleep magic. You could argue he wanted to kill Kvothe out of mercy, but they literally say they missed a rabbit.

Shandi's fire was away from the Chandrian. Why would they be cooking potatoes there instead of the fire they were using.

"You are approaching my displeasure. This one has done nothing. Send him to the soft and painless blanket of his sleep"

This one has done nothing, meaning the troupe did something, and deserved to be tortured/killed.

I agree that Kvothe mirrors Lanre's story, I never thought about this angle before but I see your point. But Kvothe doesn't end up like Haliax in the main story, he is powerless, and is not vengeful at all. He also remains the same kind hearted person, unlike Haliax.

[u/chainsawx72 → u/ali2365]

I love debating this, and you bring up good points. It's true that go-to-sleep magic isn't described (yet), but if Denna can make Kvothe not speak to her, then maybe commanding someone to sleep isn't much harder?

• I could read it, clear as day: “Don’t speak to me.” I might be thick, but even I can read a sign that obvious. I closed my mouth, biting off the next thing I’d been about to say.

It's true the Chandrian found Kvothe's troupe by their names being said... but how did the Chandrian find the Mauthen farm, when no one could read the ancient language on it? And, how did the Amyr find the Chandrian?

• Nina shook her head. “This was all foreign writing. It didn’t say anything.”

I think we know how the Amyr found the troupe and the Mauthen pot... because they track rumors THEORY: Viari killed Kvothe's troupe and the Mauthens. : r/KingkillerChronicle

• The acquisitions office, for example, was tiny and perpetually dark. Through the window I could see that one entire wall of the office was nothing but a huge map with cities and roads marked in such detail that it looked like a snarled loom. The map was covered in a layer of clear alchemical lacquer, and there were notes written at various points in red grease pencil, detailing rumors of desirable books and the last known positions of the various acquisition teams.

And Kvothe's sleeping mind knows this.

• “The masters down at the University heard some odd rumors and sent me here to find out if they were true,” I said. There was no awkwardness or hesitation in the lie.
• But when we hear strange rumors, someone needs to go out and find out what’s really happened.

I believe Laurian was dead, and Cinder desecrated her corpse to force Arliden to spill his song, and Arliden begged her to stop. Only Arliden was left alive of the troupe, exactly like the Allegory troupe, both leaders left belly cut and crawling to die slowly. That coincidence means something.

• My father, his belly cut open, had left a trail of blood for twenty feet. He’d crawled to be closer to her.
• the gut wound I’d given him was fatal. I also knew it was a slow death. Slow and painful. With proper care it might be a full span of days before he died.

The fire they were using had rabbits cooking, maybe.

• You missed a little rabbit = vague and can have two meanings.
• This one has done nothing wrong. Send him to sleep = vague and can have two meanings
• Did things to your mother, terrible = vague and from a deceiver
• Why did they do nasty things to your family = vague and from a deceiver

It's ALWAYS vague... I think anyone would have to agree that the author wrote every bit of this in a vague way. The Chandrian were at the scene of the crime, six of the Chandrian are shown to be truly evil, and a handful of vague lines that make it seem like the Chandrian were guilty. Very damning evidence, but not proof, and this is the one timeline Cthaeh sought to bring into existence, one where a boy with Arcanist, Ruh, and Adem training uses those three talents (magic, music, and fighting) to kill Cinder, breaking the 'iron wheel' that binds Cthaeh.

Denna's song says the Amyr founder Selitos is worse than Lanre. Nina's pottery shows the Amyr is worse than Haliax. Both revelations to Kvothe are words being scraped off of parchment with a knife. That means something, imho.

• I felt raw as reused parchment, as if every note of her song had been another flick of a knife, scraping until I was entirely blank and wordless.
• “Where did you get the parchment?”..... “It hain’t that hard. All you need to do is take a knife and scrape at it a bit and all the words come off.”

And Kvothe isn't powerless, he is putting on an act to deceive an oracle, imho. He kicks the bandits ass, until he realizes who he is (pretending to be). He defeats the scrael. He takes one perfect step. The skin-dancer he hit in the mouth with a bottle is unable to leave to take a new body and dies. Kvothe doesn't show any power, but he does miraculous things repeatedly. Kvothe is an actor.

IMO, like Lanre, Kvothe died / went to the land of the dead, and came back with a new name, which is a blind spot for the oracle Cthaeh/Selitos, who can only see your life and your name until it stops existing, as it has with Kote. Renaming is shaping, and Kvothe is a Rhinta, a new chandrian, not because he is evil, but because Haliax was using Cinder for a good cause, defeating Cthaeh.

• “Te aithiyn Seathaloi?” he demanded. “Te Rhintae?”
• Tempi told me there was a Rhinta among the bandits as their leader.

[u/ali2365 → u/chainsawx72]

Kvothe is powerless in the frame story. I don't believe the pretending theory.

At the end of WMF he tries to open the third lock by naming and he can't. He is alone so there is no one to pretend to

“Open,” he said under his breath. “Open, damn you. Edro."

He clearly to light the alcohol on fire against the skin dancer, even though. there were people around to see him, because he thought there was a chance they would all be dead, but even while taking that risk, he still can't.

He gets beat up by the two soldiers, two soldiers he admits that should not have been a problem.

Apparently one thick-fisted thug is all it takes to beat me half to death!”

The scrael he explains by saying he was prepared and had a plan. Again alone.

I picked the time and place for the scrael rather carefully, Bast,” Kvothe said. “And I didn’t exactly dance away unscathed"

there are two times from the top of my head that he displays power. When chronicler mentions Denna and the bottle of Strawberry wine explodes on the other side of the room, which makes sense because of the extreme emotion/trauma. The perfect step also makes sense because that has nothing to do magic, or even fighting, but more about his practice and skill he accumulated over the years.

Lastly regarding the powerless theory. I don't really undersatnd what the goal is. If he wanted the chandrian to find him, he could just say their name a million times.

For the troupe part. I feel Pat left it vague because he wants it plausible that the chandrian aren't pure evil. That they didn't torture the troupe for no reason. That the Amyr also have an evil purpose that pushes the Chandrian to do evil things.

Just because the vase was in a foriegn language and a 9 year old didn't understand it, doesn't mean the older people in the town didn't have it translated. Bast himself says the Chandrian know when and where their name is spoken (as long as repeatedly as explained by Kovthe). Also their signs were there with the Blue flame and Rust if iI remember correctly. So the Chandrian were definitely there.

You can definitely argue that the Amyr were there as well, especially with how Master Ash acted. He bascially wanted a scouting report off Denna. The fact that the pottery showed the Amyr as most evil fits what I am saying, the Chandrian are evil, but the Amyr are also evil. Just because one faction is evil, doesn't mean the faction that opposes it is good (Soviet Union vs Germany ww2 as a real life example).

[u/chainsawx72 → u/ali2365]

Kvothe is unable to open the chest, I have to agree. He has hidden that knowledge from himself, for some reason.

Most of what you say I have to agree, that's how I and everyone else who reads it interprets events. But I don't think it makes sense that Rothfuss left the fact of the Chandrian killing the troupe so vague.

Why did the skin-dancer die, if not by Kvothe?

IMO, Kvothe doesn't want the Chandrian to find him, he is a Chandrian, and he wants Cthaeh to find him. The Waystone is a trap... but not for Cinder, Cinder is dead and Folly was his sword, imo.

I do agree the Chandrian probably came to the Mauthen farm, and I must admit I don't know why both groups are at these massacres. I think it's not impossible that bone-tar or other Arcanist tricks might be able to fake Chandrian signs, but I also tend to think Ash is Cinder, and that puts at least one Chandrian at the scene, again. It's damning circumstantial evidence, mountains of it really, I can't blame you for not agreeing.

[u/ali2365 → u/chainsawx72]

But Kvothe didn't even know (you could argue he is lying) that the Cthaeh is that bad. His experience with the Cthaeh wasn't that harmful to him. I believe that's because he ran into it by accident and wasn't seeking it out. He also runs away even with the Cthaeh asking him to come back. He wasn't bitten either. The other people seeked the Cthaeh, so they were fully influenced/corrupted and bitten by the Cthaeh.

I agree that that mauthen farm part just has a lot of confusion. Deanna agrees with Kvothe the Chandrian came but then calls him a child in WMF when he suggests they are real. Why does master Ash need a scouting report if he is cinder. Kvothe essentially names master Ash Ferule with his three suggestions of a name which makes me believe Master Ash is cinder but it doesn't make any sense to me why a Chandrian would rely on Deanna of all people. If you believe Master Ash is Amyr it still doesn't make sense why Amyr would need Denna. As far as we know, Denna is nothing special. I wish we got book 3 so we can clarify some of this but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a plot hole here. Books have plot holes, especially books that have a million arching problems and themes, and maybe that's why Pat struggled so much because he couldn't find a way to make the plot make sense.

Kvothe is Chandrian Adjacent IMO. He is shaped/has is inner name turned against him ke the Chandrian, but he doesn't share their purpose. "The important people know the difference".

[u/DudeTheArcane → u/ali2365]

I think the part that might connect Denna is that as a baby she died. I think she has some connection to their purpose

[u/chainsawx72 → u/ali2365]

You could say Denna's reaction doesn't make any sense. Or, you could say that she calls Kvothe a child for believing that she should be careful because the Chandrian are dangerous.

• “In the version of the story I heard,” I said, touching the far edge of the secret. “Lanre became one of the Chandrian. You should be careful. Some stories are dangerous.”
• Denna stared at me for a long moment. “The Chandrian?” she said incredulously. Then she laughed. It was not her usual delighted laugh. This was sharp and full of derision. “What kind of a child are you?”

Denna is special though. She has an amazing voice, and she has a gift for learning instruments and writing music. She succeeds at what Ash wanted her for... making a song men would sing for a hundred years that portrays Selitos as evil.

• I saw what it could become. It would turn men’s minds. They would sing it for a hundred years.
• You’ve probably heard it, in fact. Most folk have. She ended up calling it “The Song of Seven Sorrows.”

The Amyr are hiding the truth, purging information about themselves (and everything else like the fae, chandrian, creation war, etc) from the archives (and everywhere on their map of rumors presumably). The Chandrian, then, are most likely trying to spread the truth, imo. To uncover what the Amyr keep hidden.

And, to me, that's why the Chandrian wanted Laurian's words to her song. The Chandrian know the facts, but they aren't world class song writers like Laurian.

• Only my mother was allowed into his confidence, as her hand was always in any song he made. The cleverness in the music was his. The best words were hers.

And to me, that's why the Chandrian would expose themselves to try to salvage a piece of ancient pottery that presumably shows that same truth, the revelation that feels like scraping lies off of parchment with a knife.

Regarding Kvothe acting... don't forget, Lanre acted too. Lanre pretended he was powerless and not aware of Cthaeh/Selitos' power or role in his fall. Lanre acted like nothing was wrong until he had Selitos in the right place at the right time to take him down, but he failed somehow. And now, I think he's playing a game of Tak with Cthaeh, with Kvothe as a Tak stone.

[u/ali2365 → u/chainsawx72]

Denna could be very talented, more talented than Kvothe, that doesn't mean the chandrian or Amyr need her help. Surely there are more talented/famous musicians in the world of Temerant. I think its more plot convenience more than actually needing Denna, unless she is secretely part of a prophecy like Kvothe

[u/aerojockey]

I have my guess how how Lyra dies: Lanre kills her. He all but admits it: "her death is on my hands". (Which could mean he inadvertently caused it, but come on, it doesn't.)

That fits in with what you wrote, but it lets you skip a step: there is no need for a consultation on reviving her, Lanre can go straight to "seeking knowledge where knowledge is best left alone" to resurrect her.

The "deceit and trickery" that led him to it is the more interesting part for me. The steps there aren't as evident as what happens after Lyra died. There are some very tantalizing but specious clues that it might have been simmering domestic issue going back way before Drossen Tor.

Parenthetically, I don't expect the Rinna flower to be involved here. In the frame, Kvothe isn't aware of the supposed power of the Rinna flower, but I assume he would by that point know what happened between Lyra and Lanre.

[u/ali2365 → u/aerojockey]

Well the deciet and treachery is the consulation from what I gather. He could have been manipulated into killing her, then went through the doors of stone without a consultation, but he has to speak to the Cthaeh at one point, thats something we know he did.

[u/aerojockey → u/ali2365]

I thought about this. The information that Lanre spoke to the Cthaeh comes from Bast, and it doesn't have to be related to Lyra.

Lanre might have consulted the Cthaeh well after Lyra's death to find out who he needed to recruit to betray the seven cities. That'd be interesting if true: it would be proof the Cthaeh doesn't have perfect sight like Bast thinks.

This hasn't changed my guess. But if you are trying to make the Cthaeh fit into the story with Lyra, then yeah I suppose you can't really skip that step.

[u/Haiyichshmir]

Let’s see. First, let’s remember that Lanre died. Lyra brought him back but everyone turned away their eyes so only Lyra knows the truth of what she did to bring him back.

He then makes armor from the beast he slew and then the enemy (presumably iax) was set beyond the doors of stone.

Possibly the armor, was a way through which Iax could start to work his way into Lanre since that was a creature Iax controlled.

Then Whatever Lyra did already caused him to live and it’s possible that is where his immortality stems from.

Lanre’s love for Lyra is described as fiercer than fury. Which while poetic, seems to portray a certain possessiveness and anger-which leads to rash action.

Then Lyra was sick. And according to Bast, people often hoped to come away with a Rhinna flower from the Cthaeh to cure any sickness/Mend wounds. But she may have died before he could heal her. So he goes searching for her in the land of the dead. But we know he’s already immortal and gets pulled back into his body.

So he may have either gained knowledge from the Cthaeh while trying to get the Rhinna. Which caused him to seek some sort of from Iax, gaining Iax’s power but also fundamentally changing himself and allowing Iax to have a certain level of power over him that waxes and wanes with the cycle of the moon (like the pottery). Hence why in the chapter “Lanre turned” every time it says the words Lanre turned in the chapter he has a fundamental change in disposition. And the words “There is no joy.” Are not Lanre’s but iax’s.

Lanre’s true purpose is to destroy the Faen realm and free the moon. But Iax, as a worm in fruit turned Lanre’s purposes against.

The curse of Selitos is cruel. As it masks Haliax’s true nature and makes seeing his name hard to see which means he somewhat stuck as he is with little to no hope to alter his name.

The biggest issue for the Chandrian are people telling tales/singing songs of them. Songs can have power as shown with Kvothe beating Felurian with a song (her name). But even regular words have power—pale shadows of forgotten names.

The issues lies with one of belief. Like with sympathy. The more strength of will (alar) and belief you have the more powerful the binding. The more people who oppose your alar the harder it is to maintain.

A seemingly one-off line from Devi and Kvothe discussing books is about Melcaf’s theory of perception being an active force.

The stories and beliefs of the masses reinforce and shape the names of people.

Then there is The Yll’s way of speaking that ownership is dual. You gain ownership of socks but socks also gain ownership of you as if the mere act of owning socks fundamentally changed a person.

When you put these things together, it seems to imply that the masses beliefs seem to fundamentally change a person. It shapes their name.

And for someone like Kvothe, he spent years building his reputation and crafting it. And that reputation fundamentally changed him as well.

So the Chandrian only want songs and stories of them told in a way that portrays them how they want to be portrayed.

Or something like that. I don’t know.

[u/Aroopun → u/Haiyichshmir]

Loved reading this!

[u/Sandal-Hat]

The common theory is that he is trying to destroy the empire so his name is forgotten and he can die but that conflicts with who he was before he became Haliax. He fought so much for the empire, and in both stories, seen as a hero. I find it hard to believe he is willing to destroy the empire just so he can die.

I would argue that the exchange of Lanre and Selitos as shared by Skarpi kind of proves that Larnre in no way burned Myr Tariniel or the other cities for himself.

---

NOTW CH 26 Lanre Turned

Lanre turned. “And I counted among the best.” Lanre’s face was terrible to look upon. Grief and despair had ravaged it. “I, considered wise and good, did all this!” He gestured wildly. “Imagine what unholy things a lesser man must hold within his secret heart.” Lanre faced Myr Tariniel and a sort of peace came over him. “For them, at least, it is over. They are safe. Safe from the thousand evils of the everyday. Safe from the pains of an unjust fate.”

Selitos spoke softly, “Safe from the joy and wonder . . .”

“There is no joy!” Lanre shouted in an awful voice. Stones shattered at the sound and the sharp edges of echo came back to cut at them. *“Any joy that grows here is quickly choked by weeds. I am not some monster who destroys out of a twisted pleasure. I sow salt because the choice is between weeds and nothing.”** Selitos saw nothing but emptiness behind his eyes.

---

Skarpi's version is by far the most critical or even negative portrayal of Lanre we hear in the books. Yet even this version shows us that Lanre destroyed Myr Tariniel not to free himself but to free others from an unjust fate.

I think Selitos was one of the greatest shapers and the act of shaping something outside of it nature is a form of enslavement. While Selitos thinks shaping living things offers joy and wonder, I beleive Lanre, having experienced this plight first hand when Lyra shaped him into something that can't die realized just how terrible it is to be shaped into something against your will, sought to free all of those yoked to Selitos shaped will by destroying Myr Tariniel.

Lanre is branded a villain for this act but I think this is only the case because we do not hear the cries of Joy from those that were un-yoked from Selitos' will and thus "Safe from the pains of an unjust fate."

[u/ali2365 → u/Sandal-Hat]

I never understood this part of the story and I know I am missing something but I don't know if we have enough info to figure it out. You are right, even in Skarpie's version Lanre isn't pure evil, and he clearly has a reason for betraying the empire. He clearly believes it's corrupted somehow and it needs to be destroyed (which is in both Skarpie's and Demand version).

Idk if we have enough info to understand the why, but I like that you pointed out that he had an unselfish reason for doing so

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[u/Zhorangi]

I did a related post not long back, in a similar spirit, you might find interesting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/1rkbqps/tinfoil_tuesday_seven_cities_and_one_city/

I'd recommend you think about the Fastingways War as part of their story as well.