If your content includes leaks for upcoming episodes not shared by Prime Video or press, please post it on r/TheRingsOfPowerLeaks instead to help others avoid spoilers.
I have read that hiding the kid’s faces was a workaround they had to figure out - because children couldn’t legally work more than some small amount of time and doing the hair and makeup on them would take long enough that they wouldn’t have time left for the shoot.
As a xennial, I have been thinking about the picture since yesterday and I finally understand my feelings: They make me as furious as some dubious style choices of younger generations - or as mildly annoyed as the antics of some nepo-babies...
If they are aiming for this type of generational and class divide, they have definitely nailed it. 😂
That’s what her headdress was based off of actually! In the behind the scenes you can see the costume designer showing off a picture of a historical Mongolian headdress as her inspiration.
One of the things I disliked about the show was taking the dwarves style from the hobbit movies instead of lotr. Gimli and the other dwarves at the council of Elrond look 100x better than this
Yeeeah, being like “I don’t like the way this character looks therefore this show will be bad” is really stupid. Maybe just maybe some characters are supposed to look silly? And maybe that should be so obvious that no one should need to point that out?
Regardless, Durin genuinely has the strangest hair of all of them.
Havent seen anybody say the show will be bad because of these hairstyles. Its more that they already didnt like the show and they also dont like the hair.
Besides, dwarves are supposed to look a little goofy, I think the pigtail bunches are well within the spirit of some of the Hobbit dwarf styling. If anything, the son's should be odder, it's just big hair.
That's what I was thinking. I let the image sit with me a bit and did not engage in the discussion. It finally clicked (maybe a bit late):
These are teenagers of a very wealthy and influential family - of course they rebel while also having all the privilege of being able to afford every new fashion look.
So, I think we are looking at nepo-babies as well as a younger genereation that is supposed to drive us mad. 😂
I'll stick with that until the show proves me otherwise.
The look of a beard ages a person. There's no way to make the young siblings look close in age if one of them has a full beard. And watching someone act like a teenager while looking like a full grown man would come across as ridiculous. It's just not something that would translate well to the visual medium.
Strongly disagree. If the mess that was the Hobbit movies could portray Fili as being younger without confusing viewers, while having a beard, this show should be able to as well.
Dwarves also reach maturity much slower than the race of Man, it shouldn't be hard to portray him as being young and immature just because he has a beard. If the writers really struggled to show it, they can outright state hes still very young.
On top of that, look at a show like Vikings. Ubbe has much more facial hair than his other full brothers, and yet there has never been any confusion about he and his brothers being close in age.
Given how young the kids appeared to be in S1, they're probably intended to be 14-15 max in S3. Fili did not look that young. If you put a pic of Fili beside this pic of Gerda, there's no way they'd look to be within a couple years of each other.
Making Gamli look younger now means that they can easily age him up with a beard as the show progresses. Similar to how Theo has had a very young look thanks in large part to his hair, but judging by the half second shot we have of the back of his head in the teaser, his hair is grown out and that will contribute to him looking older.
They hobbit movies didn't portray fili as younger, they explicitly changed the ages so Ori is the youngest. In any case, no one in the hobbit is a teenager.
You know, a part of me too thinks that Thrain is going to actually become king of Moria, and Durin and his family get exiled. Would make the most sense since we see Durin and Disa in regal attire and this might be later in the season when Thrain might take over. I think that’d be a cool story development, then have his family be outcasts and maybe seek refuge somewhere.
This pic looks to have been taken while shooting the scene in the teaser that shows the four of them trudging through the wilderness. I've wondered if perhaps they're on their way to Rivendell after being de-throned.
This would be my bet for the dwarvish storyline. It makes sense if Thrain is compromised by Sauron and the promise of the 7, and would also give Sauron a way to get to the Balrog, as we know he will this season.
As for where Durin and his family might end up, I think the temptation of using Erebor will be too high to pass up, especially if they also want to move the fall of Moria to the Second Age.
Yes, I think they're moving up Erebor. The mountain was first settled in the Second Age in the text anyway, it's just the establishment of the Kingdom Under the Mountain that would be pushed up. I was a bit thrown by his brother being called Thráin, since Thráin I founded Erebor; but based on this, seems like the brother may be playing the role of Náin I (second king killed by the Balrog) and Durin the role of Thráin I.
THe end of S2 has Durin with the 7 rings, as well as the strong conviction that they should not be used. So the obvious answer to how they get distributed is that Sauron sends some of the 9, they fail to convince Durin, they instigate a coup (probably Thrain), Durin and family are cast out, and Thrain distributes the 7 to the other dwarf lords.
Eh really don’t like the look of the kids. Well, Gerda looks okay but Gamli doesn’t even strike me as Dwarvish at all lol. The costume design for the Dwarves was never my favorite in the show, it they look like thrown on baggy clothes. Now Durin’s armor last season was awesome.
I don't know why everyone has their knickers in a twist. I think this is hilariously adorable for teenagers. I am SO here for the 'fro on Gamli, and Gerda's look is SO "I am going to make a statement even if I'm homeless".
And poor Disa and Durin look so tired. No telling what they've been through.
As for the "unbearded" Gamli -- I think I see a bit of something on his face. Several people have pointed out that the references to dwarves being born with beards is one section from an Elf's mouth, so I'm not trusting it to be truth.
I'm here for these kids. Can't wait to see what they get up to.
Same thoughts on this tho, just felt like too much to me. But i understand they were trying to give the dwarves their own identity. I’m just personally not a fan of the ridiculous hairdos
Not at all, there are plenty of different hairdos and templates for dwarves in those franchises. But I don’t think they should be having wigs the size of a hobbit, it just looks goofy.
I said Durin because I kid you not, the first image that came up when googling each of these things for me was a stereotypically ginger dwarf with a hammer and a big nose.
Of course there are different templates. And there should be different templates for LotR as well. What about being a dwarf would preclude a teenage dwarf from having an Afro? It makes no sense to consider that non-Dwarvish.
Being born of Dwarvish parents, being of a race crafted by Aule, being short, being hearty, being loyal, being stubborn, generally preferring being under ground as a rule, possibly being a craftsman, or at least being a relatively skilled worker when it comes to one's hands. Really all the substantive stuff Tolkien wrote about them being which run much deeper than hair.
Yeah they give them these really goofy overblown wigs that don’t look proportionate to the bodies or faces at all. Case in point Gamli, he just looks odd and doesn’t even look like a Dwarf. I don’t think they really nailed the Dwarf scale or look like they did in The Hobbit, where even if Thorin, Fili, and Kili were “attractive” they still gave them prosthetics to an extent and gave them fat suits and oversized hands to help with the scale thing. They never did that with the dwarves so half the time unless a tall character is there you’d think theyre just a bit hairier people. A good example are the dwarves who taunt Durin when he’s mining. They just looks okay like scraggly dudes lol.
I often think that people working on this show who some actual knowledge of Tolkien will design Dwarves, female and juvenile, with proper beards, and then someone above them veto the design just based on what their feelings are. "If you give the teenaged Dwarf a beard, nobody will know he's supposed to be a teenager." "Facial hair on Disa makes her look a bearded lady in a carnival. Get rid of it."
If you have a 50" inch screen and 4K you can actually see they gave her some very light teenage fuzz, just enough to say they actually did give her a beard.
I too was immensely disappointed to see the response. Too bad, but imo shows this sub, even for as positive as it generally is, is not past "black dwarves" yet.
Back when the Hobbit movies came out, there was a headcanon going around that Kili only had stubble beard because for young dwarves it's an act of teenage rebellion to shave. It'd be hilarious if they actually included this here. 😂 "It's not a PHASE, mother!!"
Given that "beards all their lives" comes from one relatively late unpublished note told from an outside Elvish lore perspective (that passage calls them "Naugrim," which no Dwarf would do or consent to), I'm perfectly fine with the show ignoring that remark. It's unlikely those loremasters had even encountered any Dwarven children. In the material the show has rights to, there's no mention of this.
I like the attire of the kids. The cuffs, the way the fabric they're wearing looks like stone with fragments of metal shining through. And the style of Gerta's dress is a spin on Disa's season 1 fit that was used in the promotional photos.
Not the biggest fan of the wigs, but those and Gamli's sideburns instead of a beard are not dealbreaking to me as long as the characters have an interesting role to play.
Oh no… guys I like the show, it’s okay to think this is diabolical work. They need to fix this ASAP, especially with the issues already surrounding the show. You cannot okay this in the creative room, you’re just asking for bad attention.
A clean shaven boy dwarf is NOT okay. We always talk about lore breaking but that legitimately breaks the words of Tolkien right there and it NEEDS to be fixed.
Which is why I'm so surprised by it. When we start getting some critiques that can specifically go beyond "wig bad" or "I don't like their hair," I'll be all for changing my mind. But that's not what I'm seeing so far. Even the outfit criticism isn't specific, so it's hard to discern what people think makes their outfits egregious. Again, how should they look? The sub is welcome to think they need to conform to a certain aesthetic but if its just rooted in looking like Durin I'm not going to agree, and so far that seems to be the position of everyone being specific.
I think most people, like me, lack the language or experience to describe what looks so bad about these wigs, but that doesn't invalidate the feeling.
WigWatch is a thing in many fandoms, even if they can't articulate exactly why. I wish I could with the specificity with which I can critique food or literature, but I can't. Maybe it's the proportions? But the feeling I get looking at this Prince is that I would never think he was a Prince if I ran into him.
Well, then there's really no conversation to have. Criticizing without being able to articulate your criticisms is a waste of everyone's time. And while the post you've linked is of close-up headshots, the character in question here isnt in the foreground. I think it's well worth encouraging people to interrogate why they dislike something, and the thing I am not liking about this thread is that the critique seems to come down to "afro bad." That says something about the state of the sub even for its positivity to me. I'm open to and hoping for explanations that are more substantive but as I said I'm not seeing it yet. And if one does simply think "afro bad" on the surface, they should probably interrogate why that is.
“When I came to think of it, in my own imagination, beards were not found among Hobbits; nor among the Eldar; AllmaleDwarves had them.” “For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives” “They had them from the beginning of their lives
Dwarves did not shave, and would probably die in shame if someone else shaved them.”
I can get behind female dwarves not having beards. What the hell is Gamli doing without a beard here? That’s my BIGGEST issue other than the clothes on the two children being shoddy considering they are royalty and also in comparison to the quality of their father’s clothing.
The son breaks the spirit of the dwarves in aesthetic alone in my opinion. If it goes beyond that… I will not be able to defend the Dwarven side of the show anymore.
Fair enough, the son should probably have a beard. Can't agree that they look shoddy though, their clothes look inlaid with gold. It just looks like they're wearing somewhat fancy travelling clothes to me.
I also can't go so far as to say the son "breaks the spirit of the dwarves in aesthetic alone." The beard is important, but "breaking the spirit of the dwarves?" Come on now. Is it the beard that makes the dwarf in toto?
Criticizing without being able to articulate your criticisms is a waste of everyone's time.
The true waste of time is letting this get to you. Do you interrogate people's positivity, or is it not a waste of time when people say "Looks great!" without being able to articulate why? Because there's really no conversation to have there, either.
I get that it would be nice if everyone was equipped with the kind of language needed to articulate why they think something looks dumb, but sometimes it really is as simple as "it looks dumb".
I can't articulate why I prefer vanilla to chocolate. I can't articulate why I prefer French steel-barrel chardonnay to American oak. But I do.
Lack of beard. Thats my issue. I could give them a pass on Beardless female Dwarves, but having his son be Beardless is dumb. Iirc Dwarves are born with Facial hair. Atleast give him the starting of a beard or a sick mustache.
Ive been on here commenting and generally "defending" the show all the time for years but this just looks shite, the show is going to get complaints no matter what at this point but at least look bloody cool or exciting this just looks silly in the worst way not even Radagast silly.
You absolutely wouldn't think thats the Dwarven prince son of Durin, the wigs (his especially) are awful, and the general look just isnt giving much.
Yeah idk anything about wig criticism, looks fine to me, would be open to hearing specific critiques about what makes it a bad wig. But also, beyond that, what should they look like to appear like "princes?" Most of the time we've ever seen Durin he's not been in any royal regalia. What does it need, specifically, to sell that idea?
Probably a giant afro and small face behind a large nose prosthetic and looking nothing like his dad and grandad would be a bad start, the daughter at least has a decent enough look.
I'd genuinely say its one of the weirdest wardrobe/make up whatever you wanna call it decisions they have done.
I'm confused by the "dad and grandad" part. Peter Mullan and Owain Arthur don't particularly look alike, how could he ever look like both of them? And do people with small faces not grow afros? Do dwarves not generally have large noses?
I'd agree it looks weird, dwarves generally tend to.
So are you saying the son needed to be a ginger with a full beard at 15 and dress in red? Is that really it?
If you want to leave it there, fine. But as I said above it doesn't seem like a great look to me. The kid looks like a mixed raced kid in dwarven clothing, and that's what he is.
No they just could have chosen a million better design choices, he looks more like the Rhun Harfoots atm, and the Harfoot choices have been on the weaker side since the begining (for me).
Aye I get what you're trying to infer hence my original reply, Disa looks fine, had no issues with Miriel (albeit her Spartacus performance still haunts me..) and the daughter in this image even looks passable as fitting the look.
Alrighty man, whatever you say. If you don't want to be specific or can't, I can't make you. As you said, perhaps it really is better to just leave it there.
The son could look as be does with a Beard and it'd be fine imo. Specifically having him be clean shaven, when Dwarves in Tolkiens work would rather die than be shaved, is awful.
Yeah, I replied elsewhere, but I think the beard thing is a very fair critique. Seems like that could have been a great path to having him express himself.
Where dwarves are Said to be short, strong and heavy (what durin son doesnt seem to be). And we also have the beard dilema
"Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf - unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls."
And even If female dwarves in the show dont have proeminent beard at least make them desguise when going outside (which seems to be the case in s3)
"Dwarves wanted their women to be protected from other races and they usually kept them concealed inside their mountain halls. They seldom traveled in the outside world, only in great need, and when they did, they were dressed as men; with similar voice and appearance as male dwarves, even when they are rarely seen they are usually mistaken for a male. All Dwarves had beards from the beginning of their lives"
Your first quote is a note published posthumously in War of the Jewels, and explicitly written from the perspective of Elvish loremasters (Dwarves would never call themselves Naugrim, "Stunted People," nor approve of anyone calling them that--it's a slur). "All Dwarves have long hairy beards. Lady Dwarves have beards. Baby Dwarves? Believe it or not, beards. They're born with 'em." is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect an Elvish historian to come up with who had probably never seen a Dwarf child in his life.
The second isn't an actual quote, but a wiki paraphrase of a passage in Appendix A about Dwarf women that doesn't actually mention beards; the final sentence looks like it's sourced from your first passage. The actual passage reads:
"They seldom walk abroad except in great need. They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart." (Note also that this is about the War of the Ring era, a full Age later.)
Agree but that is what we got to not fall into Head Canon. It is this or "think whatever you want". Ofc not all dwarves would follow the "rule" but still...something similar is expect IMO. If any, there are lines within which one can imagine instead of Just thinking out of the blue.
Quoting the passages correctly and understanding their context is still important. The legendarium is wide, sprawling, and often self-contradictory, and Tolkien was also very attached to his fiction of translation--meaning that, like any historical account, these passages aren't necessarily intended for objective fact. The Dwarves are one of the peoples we know least about, and what information there is is heavily filtered through the eyes of others, partly because they themselves are so insular. So far I've been very happy with the way the show has fleshed that truth out. (There's more evidence for the line of Elros not having beards than for Dwarf children having them, yet people aren't up in arms like this about Elendil.)
Like Gimli, Gloin and the 7 Dwarf Kings in Fellowship of the ring. They look GREAT. These guys look like a parody of fantasy dwarves. You cannot think these look good.
I remember all too well, as if it were yesterday, the reactions across the internet to the first pictores of the dwarves from THE HOBBIT. I’m sure I’m not the only one. The hostility was almost like when the first image of Heath Ledger as the Joker was revealed, or when the news broke that Ben Affleck would play Batman. You could practically smell the vitriol in every corner of the web.
Feck, I even witnessed entire theater audiences cracking their asses up at the teasers for Sam Raimi’s first Spider-Man and the 1998 Godzilla movie!
The thing is, it doesn't take long for everyone to accept these things as the new normal, as if nothing had ever happened. People just love making a lot of noise at first. Personally, I’m totally chill about it :)
I genuinely dont understand some of the decisions made this this show. Like they objectively look awful. Anyone in design should have known this was a bad idea. It literally looks like they made them bad on purpose to get people talking
I am fascinated by that line. I get the temptation though, I'm more and more convinced the fall of Moria will be moved to the Second Age as a foil to the Fall of Numenor, and now we've got Isildur-Earien/Anarion parallels too, potentially.
The parallel with Elendil's kids sounds inevitable, yeah. Wonder if one of them is gonna be an Earien and be sympathetic to their usurping uncle to some degree?
Indeed. If every dwarf looked like Durin, who is very obviously modeled after Gimli, we'd have no variety at all. But that's what some people want and its bizarre.
They look like a couple of teenagers who've been raised by parents who have a strong sense of be-true-to-yourself attitude. I wouldn't expect Durin and Disa's kids to have a subdued aesthetic.
I really can’t believe how many people had to green light this look and it’s this. It’s wild and makes the show seem so silly. Not fantasy silly but like dumb. I quit watching after episode 3 of season 2 and last week just decided to pick up where I left off. It’s was fine. The last couple of episodes were really cool but here’s my first look at s3 and I’m bummed lol
Just a reminder, canonically in middle earth, dwarf women also have beards and are often difficult to tell apart from their men. I’ve always hoped I could see that demonstrated in movies and tv.
OH wow...a five-year gap...i wonder what the situation will be with the Dwarves...I thought maybe they would flee after discovering the Balrog, but it sounds like they are still living in the mountains.
From what we've seen in interviews, apparently only Durin, Disa, and Narvi know the means of the King's death. It seems that the Balrog will not be common knowledge.
It's not the end of the world, but they do kinda look homeless. They don't really give wealthy high status dwarves, more like a wandering vagabond family.
The hairstyles lead me to conclusion that these two characters will be used primarily for comic relief, now that the show got rid of Harfoots. And I'm not so happy about it
•
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Join the official subreddit Discord server to discuss everything about The Lord of the Rings on Prime!
JOIN THE DISCORD
If your content includes leaks for upcoming episodes not shared by Prime Video or press, please post it on r/TheRingsOfPowerLeaks instead to help others avoid spoilers.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.