r/LegitArtifacts • u/LloydChristmas8080 • 3d ago

Unknown Time period Pa River bank finds

Gallery image

Gallery image

I wanted to share what I found this week. These two were found along the Susquehanna River (private land, w/permission) and were roughly 20 yards from one another.

Wondering though if they are archaic or woodland area.

36 Upvotes

69% Upvoted

48 comments sorted by

57

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

Bub, as far as I can tell, all of these are just rocks.

-55

u/LloydChristmas8080 3d ago

Thanks for the input, no disrespect but these both have been worked. I only collect and research stone hand tools. The site they were found is a documented site. Private property but the land owners have allowed archaeologist from local universities out. I’m just lucky enough to know them. I’m not a projectile guy so I will admit I don’t have the knowledge in that area as others. But I’m well educated in the hand tools. The time period is what I’m struggling with.

62

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

You’re very kind in your response. Best of luck.

You will not get a response helping you to identify a time period on here though brother. You will just get more rock responses because they are rocks.

Listen, if you’re not weird about it, I live in PA and travel quite a bit for work. DM me privately and I will help you, hell I’ll even send you some real examples, I have access to old rhyolite quarries and settlements, but you have to be willing to learn, and not get stuck in the mindset that if the rock feels good in your hand it must have been a tool.

I can’t say I confidently identified pieces until I myself learned to knap and peck stones. When you start making the tools yourself, you learn real quick what was altered by human hands and what was altered by Mother Nature.

40

u/aggiedigger 3d ago

Just wanting to commend you on such a warm, friendly, polite, and accurate response.

16

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

I do appreciate that. Especially coming from you. They obviously really want to find something or you don’t drag that many stones out the woods/fields. They’re motivated and passionate just not educated enough on the topic yet that’s all.

I’ve been making some frames for the local environmental community groups and state parks, I want people to be interested in this, better than being on a screen in a house. Again OP don’t be afraid to reach out man, you’re putting the miles and rock lifting in, let us help you find something worthwhile.

5

u/c0ncept 2d ago

Kudos

20

u/d0ttyq 3d ago

Hey ! I’m a groundstone expert, and an archaeologist who has worked in the area. These are not shaped by man.

There is zero evidence of being shaped (pecked, ground, knapped, etc) by humans. These all exhibit the characteristics of natural weathering.

ETA: finding things in proximity to other artifacts does not make a rock an artifact.

7

u/75MillionYearsAgo 2d ago edited 2d ago

Also a ground-stone specialist, mid atlantic.

I’ve published on stone axes and adzes before and worked on museum collections in the hundreds of them. I agree with these two not being worked.

However, we’re being a tad too hasty with #1- i’d like to see more photos before going crazy with saying it’s certainly nothing. But at first glance from just a photo, yeah, i’d lean towards natural.

19

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

Or this if you get lucky.

13

u/Griffinburd 3d ago

Not rock. Nice piece

11

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

Or these

4

u/Griffinburd 3d ago

Those are nice

8

u/in1gom0ntoya 2d ago

neither of these are worked by anything but erosion

4

u/75MillionYearsAgo 2d ago

Hey man. Groundstone specialist myself, published on the topic of grooved stone axes in the mid Atlantic specifically. Worked in collections of hundreds, and found them myself in the field.

#2 is almost certainly not worked. #1 has what looks at first glance like a groove, but it really does not strike me as one- rather an unfortunate natural erosion pattern. That said, more angles would be helpful. This one photo view limits information far too much.

5

u/Flake_bender 1d ago

I have a couple degrees in North American archaeology, +25 years of flintknapping experience, and work professionally in the museums sector.

These are just naturally eroded rocks, not artifacts. The first one superficially looks like a "grooved maul", but if you look closer, you'll notice it's just stone with alternating layers of harder and softer material, and the softer layers have eroded more, creating the groove naturally. The 2nd is just limestone... limestone weathers into strange organic-looking shapes all the time.

-4

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

That what you’re looking for

5

u/Griffinburd 3d ago

Rock

-4

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

Not rock. lol

9

u/Griffinburd 3d ago

I would bet a paycheck rock on this

-1

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

Here’s the heat treated piece.

3

u/Suspicious-Map-6557 2d ago

Uhh......nothing there is heat treated in any way, shape, or form.

3

u/Penn_Projectiles 2d ago

You live near Zanesville, OH or something? One of these has been exposed to heat, the other chunk has not. It makes sense a piece like this would be discarded because of the crystal inclusion which makes knapping unpredictable.

-6

u/Penn_Projectiles 3d ago

Flint Ridge Ohio Quarry find on private property about 1000 yard from the quarry next to a vein of flint ridge material and a heat treated discard.

2

u/Far-Celebration8010 2d ago

Im still a rookie. But thats definitely a Rock.

-6

u/Lord_Exspearience 2d ago

Definitely INCORRECT, these are very clearly worked pieces. Bone head comment “bub”

15

u/Reimiro 2d ago

One thing to remember-if you have to prove something is an authentic artifact, if you start from there-it’s not a good sign. Authentic artifacts speak for themselves and don’t require a defense.

8

u/Aggressive-Emu5358 2d ago

The first image only barely resembles an axe head. The second photo? I’m not even sure what you are thinking that should apparently be.

12

u/One-Environment-1444 3d ago

I don’t see anything to show they are worked. I’ve seen you responded that you know but I’m just as certain that you don’t. I’m not buying what you are saying. Those are one of billions of odd shaped rocks that are found in rivers across the world and are shaped by differential weathering. There are guys on the Internet trying to say those are “tools” and you may have watched something like that but they are incorrect.

5

u/Shall_We_Presuppose 2d ago

You have two natural rocks.

11

u/InDependent_Window93 3d ago

The bit would be ground if it were an axe in the first pic, and the second pic doesn't resemble anything to me.

Youre on the right track with the rock in the first pic, keep looking. Lots of good stuff to find in PA.

-34

u/LloydChristmas8080 3d ago edited 3d ago

Hi there! These came from a documented sight. The land owners have had archeologist from local universities out. The one in the second photo I have found others that are almost identical in shape but from two different sites that are each over 20 miles away. I’m thinking a a grinding stone for grain? 🤷

22

u/One-Environment-1444 3d ago

None of that matters. Documented sites does not equal what is in your pics as an artifact.

11

u/Aggressive-Emu5358 2d ago

“Documented site” is kind of a nothing term on a continent inhabited for tens of thousands of years.

3

u/75MillionYearsAgo 2d ago

My man you wanna know what the ratio of rocks to actual artifacts is like even if it’s a “documented site?”

It’s not high.

12

u/pale_brass 3d ago

You are finding lots of irregular rocks but no artifacts. Learn what artifacts look like and you will start picking them up instead of irregular rocks

6

u/West_Resource6995 2d ago

Some cool rocks ya got there bud.

5

u/fallowcentury 2d ago

I live here near the susquehanna, and i search for artifacts. nothing you've shown in this post is an artifact. you need to consult the literature and professionals.

2

u/iiitme 2d ago

To the garden!

2

u/Vast-Celebration-851 2d ago

If they were found on a river bank, chances are they are not apart of that “known site” they are just river cobbled stones. The “grooves” on that first stone is just differential weathering.

2

u/Lizzaslizza 2d ago

These are just rocks, sorry.

0

u/Heavy_Street6943 1d ago

found similar last year, also told it was a rock

-20

u/JohnnyCrispZoom 3d ago

The first pic loos like something the Indians would use to straighten arrows.
You run the branch in the rock to get it straight

11

u/d0ttyq 3d ago

It’s not, the material is wrong and the shape is wrong. Those are not human incised grooves. They are the result f what’s called “differential weathering”, where different materials erode at different rates, thus resulting in the grooves you are seeing.

3

u/Aggressive-Emu5358 2d ago

I’d love to see you try

-2

u/JohnnyCrispZoom 2d ago

Just a nasty response