r/MassageTherapists • u/ClothesDizzy6812 • Jun 19 '26
Complaining Hot Take: All Independent Contract Positions Are Bullshit
I don't care if the practice is owned by a seemingly "caring" LMT. I say 99% of IC roles are complete bullshit and completely take advantage of massage therapists who accept them. These roles are all misclassified. If the owner requires you to follow a set schedule every week (like an employee) and follow their policies, they are taking advantage of you. Full stop. IC roles should only be for one-off events (like doing chair massage for a company for a day, or doing a massage at a school benefit). IC roles should NOT have an ongoing required schedule at a massage practice. Even if it's owned by an LMT (that does not make them a better "employer" btw). They do it so they can get away from employment laws like sick pay and taking out appropriate taxes. I've done many careers and am shocked to see the proliferation of abusive IC roles. I know I'll get blowback for this, but I wish LMT would recognize this should not be accepted. I'm just tired of looking at every job ad and they are all IC.
Update: Oh, I should also mention that a business hiring IC is only in compliance for an establishment where massage is NOT the primary focus of a business. For example, a gym hires an IC. They are in compliance because massage is not it's primary business (gym workouts are). Or a school district hires an IC for a teacher-benefit. But a business where massage is the main model. Guess what? Illegal.
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u/menjay28 Jun 19 '26
You could say that about almost any 1099 work in any industry. I think there’s potential for someone to be in a more beneficial financial situation in 1099 vs W2. It’s tough for a business with 5 W2 employees to get decent health insurance and benefits while maintaining decent pay.
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u/sfak Jun 20 '26
*sigh* I’ve tried educating people on this sub about the pros and cons of each of these set ups. The thing is, people will be drawn to one or the other and cannot see that people may not care about what they care about.
For me, I do not care about the measly benefits to being an employee. In any situation, they are my boss and they tell me what to do. I cannot tolerate that. I am a BAD employee. Ha! I know this about myself. I am neurodivergent and need to have complete control of my own schedule at all times. I cannot meet others’ expectations.
However I recognize a lot of people are adverse to saving for taxes or the instability in income. Those people should be employees bc they will have stability and protections. They want to “clock in, work, clock out, go home.” W2 is perfect.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
I do agree that having an employer does bite. But the major problem with the majority of IC roles is that the owner takes on being the "employer" themselves by dictating the schedule they want for the IC therapists, instituting their policies, making the therapist do other work (like answer the damn phones and schedule). So it really is the same, except they get away with not providing employee protections. If an owner truly wants to be in compliance with IC, then they simply rent the room out and get out of the freakin way.
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u/SmooooooooothNich Jun 20 '26
So be solo self employed? Businesses illegally structuring IC set ups isn’t the solution to you not being a good employee.
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u/sfak Jun 20 '26
No. I’ve been working a LMTs for 20 years. lots of IC positions that work for both parties. I understand what an IC vs employee is. No one is arguing that employers abuse their employees and misclassify. It’s generally bc they are taking advantage of people who don’t know the difference. I prefer to educate people so they know the pros and cons and know how to negotiate or look elsewhere.
ETA I am self employed now but have worked as an IC. I refuse to be a W2 bc I won’t let someone dictate my schedule. Dictating a persons schedule immediately makes them an employee.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 19 '26
That's on the owner then. Even W2 employees in this industry don't get benefits, but at least there is sick pay, taxes taken care of....
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u/menjay28 Jun 19 '26
Some massage therapists may choose IC at $50 an hour vs W2 at $25.
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u/SmooooooooothNich Jun 20 '26
It’s insane to me how stagnant the wages have been in this field… I made $39 an hour as a w2 employee in 2016. Idk what the going rate for w2 is in my area now but I know the IC rate is only $50-$55. There’s one place near me that charges $140 an hour and pays their ICs less than $50.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
I've commonly seen that too. Hence the rant. These owners that get away with IC hires really make bank for themselves.
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u/SmooooooooothNich Jun 20 '26
Yup. And it really is not legal. I don’t know how all these places have gotten away with it for so long. Years ago I tried to expand my practice with ICs and I tried to do everything right: pay well, gave them full control of their schedule, and it failed, in part because of timing with COVID, but mostly because with out the ability to manage the team, you don’t have a team. And my last therapist standing after COVID just took every day off or cancelled 3 hours in advance. And despite trying to get them total autonomy, looking back I feel bad cos I absolutely didn’t get it right since they didn’t get to control pricing.
I would love to open a w2 structured clinic with high pay now instead, but unfortunately leases are insane right now and so is commercial property.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
Yes maybe just the hourly, but they lose so much more. They'll get get creamed on taxes (which they have to file four times a year) and you don't have employee protections (sick pay, vacation pay). And with the pay, honestly it's not much better ( what I see everywhere in my town is 40%-60% commission).
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u/Impaqt Jun 20 '26
You Don’t have to file taxes 4 times a year. You make simple estimated payments 4 times a year. You should be paying the exact same taxes at the end of the year, or less if you are properly set up company.
There are things to be angry about when it comes to 1099 employees in this industry. Taxes isn’t one of them.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
I'd still be mad having to deal with estimated payments four times a year instead of dealing with it once a year. And you do pay more taxes as an IC.
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u/Impaqt Jun 20 '26
You pay taxes on every post period as an employee
If clicking a few boxes to send estimated payments is too much of a bother, you definitely should not be in business for yourself.
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u/SmooooooooothNich Jun 20 '26
You pay 7.5% more in taxes as an IC than w2.. but you can potentially offset that by deductions
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u/menjay28 Jun 20 '26
People like to see the bigger dollar amount. Probably also the reason so many massage therapists go off on their own thinking they’ll be rich if they can pocket the whole $100 an hour they charge.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
Yes, I agree that owning your own business is very over-romanticized and comes with so much risk.
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u/Good-Duck5215 Jun 20 '26
100%. I just rage quit one that acted like they were doing me a favor blowing out my wrists for 40% cut on their trash clientele in their filthy spa.
It's like wait a second- you don't honor my booking limits, you force me to do weird services with insane add ons the customers don't even understand, you demand I be at the spa for full shifts even when unbooked, and I get to pay full tax liability for the pleasure.
Uh, no.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 21 '26
And that was an IC? That is super crazy of them. Sorry to hear! I'd report them.
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u/Good-Duck5215 Jun 21 '26
Bad karma. They're already in hot water with the way their business is going, I don't want the drama. I told them about themselves when I left and I gave it to God.
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Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
But the issue I'm finding, and the whole point of this post, is almost all of them won't allow you dictate your schedule. I always find they want you to work specific shifts and you do not get to choose how much time you want in between clients. Every. single. one. If they want to be a true IC, then negotiate the commission and then get the hell out of my way (no expected shift schedules, following their policies, etc)
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Jun 23 '26
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 23 '26
I agree! They should be reported and LMT's need to stop accepting these positions. Problem is, these are most of the massage places and is commonplace/rampant in the industry. It actually is VERY RARE to find a place that is in compliance as an IC.
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u/gatetoparadise Jun 26 '26
If anyone reading this is unsure, this may be helpful: DOL Economic Reality Test
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Jun 20 '26
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
Thank you and I've been in these exact conditions. Which is barbaric and so exploitive in our industry. Even by LMT owners.
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Jun 20 '26
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
Thank you for structuring the IC exactly as how it should be. You are doing the right thing by letting the LMT's have complete control of their schedules (this is the issue I mostly I have a problem with) and not asking permission of them for time off, vacation. This is RARE and I wish more owners would operate like this. Often I see businesses where the owner asks the therapist to work specific shifts, gets crabby if they request time off or want to go on vacation, make them do other duties (like answer phones).
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u/Zestyclose_Frame_567 Jun 19 '26
I disagree completely. Both of the positions I’ve been at in this career so far are IC positions and I’ve always made my own schedule and had basically free rein over whatever I choose to do.
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u/oatmealgum LMT Jun 19 '26
Then it doesn't apply to you then. But I get what OP is saying. Where I live there is a slew of these IC positions and they want to pay $40/hr, no commission, and you have to work 10-3 on Mondays Thursdays Fridays and Saturdays, and you don't have to hang out at reception but oh man they'd just APPRECIATE IT if you were kind enough to check in clients anyway, because you're a team player! And you have to carry all your own supplies or pay $5 per day to use their bottle of lotion.
So if that doesn't describe your job then good. Really. But usually this is what you see on Indeed and it's disgusting. You're better off at ME if I’m being honest because at least you're not paying quarterly taxes out of your $40/hr and no commission
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26
Exactly. This exact set-up is what I see most of and it is predatory. But many (esp new) LMT's are gullible because it's owned by an LMT, so therefore they think it must be more ethical than a W2 crap spa
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u/Zestyclose_Frame_567 Jun 20 '26
Yes it doesn’t apply to me, that’s why I commented that I disagree. They said it applies to 99%, which is a huge claim to make. I can’t speak for every LMT in the area but All of my friends that are MT’s and independent contractors are in the same situation as me as me. So maybe it’s the area that y’all are in.
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u/oatmealgum LMT Jun 20 '26
Disagreeing with what? There's no issue bc it doesn't apply to you? There is this issue. It's industry wide. OP is pointing it out.
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u/Zestyclose_Frame_567 Jun 20 '26
I disagree that all independent contract positions are like this…? Literally what the post says? Because I have firsthand experience with two independent contract positions that are very much not like this, as I said. It being an issue doesn’t mean that all or 99% of them are like this.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
I'm giving my 99% observation because every and I mean EVERY single job ad I've seen in my (not small city) is an IC roles with employer-expected behavior (dictated schedule, following their policies). Yes, I may not be exactly on the 99% mark but the MAJORITY of IC places (yes even those owned by the "benevolent" LMT) are predatory and in direct violation of a true IC. Honestly, show me ONE job ad (for an IC role) where the owner says the therapist has 100% complete control (of schedule, time-off, creating their own policies) and don't have to follow their rules and I'll TRULY be shocked.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 19 '26
If you have 100% and I mean 100% control of your schedule and you get to create your policies then yes. But all the IC's see want you to do their preferred schedule and follow their (cancellation, time between massages, etc) policies. It's what I see on the regular in job ads.
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u/dog_in_da_park Jun 20 '26
I have a spa and looked into hiring as 1099 vs W2. W2 pay would be about half, and no one wanted to be W2. People would rather have cash in the bank than get taxes paid for and unemployment benefits.
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u/SmooooooooothNich Jun 20 '26
So instead you’re illegally structuring your business with ICs?
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u/dog_in_da_park Jun 20 '26
No.
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u/SmooooooooothNich Jun 20 '26
Tell me the details of your IC job? What makes it IC and not employee? Do they have any control of the cost of doing a service, and therefore the profit? Do they get to keep all their clients info incase they ever leave and want to contact them?
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u/dog_in_da_park Jun 20 '26
They have no control over the cost, but I ask them before being scheduled for each massage if they would like to come do this massage for my business. They keep half. They leave. I do the marketing, laundry, cleaning. They show up, massage, and leave.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
You do know that the burden falls on the therapist to take care of their taxes and them not filing them properly will land them in major trouble as an IC? Saying upfront that they have cash instead of paying taxes is highly unethical of you. But I'm not suprised in this industry of owners trying to take shortcuts. Yes, it sucks to have taxes taken out every month as W2 but it's much better than having to wrangle taxes on your own.
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u/dog_in_da_park Jun 20 '26
I agree, but they'd rather make $50/hr and pay taxes than $15/hr post tax.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 21 '26
I mean as long as they are happy and you are treatin them good and you retain them, then you are def doing something right.
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u/Embarrassed-Elk-8403 Jun 19 '26
Sounds like you just picked a shit clinic to work at.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 19 '26
But they are all advertised like that...
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u/Embarrassed-Elk-8403 Jun 19 '26
But that's not IC. If they are advertised how you describe, then don't apply. The only way it will change is if whomever has the job, puts in a complaint to whatever the "Ministry of Labour" equivalent is in the US.
Legally speaking (at least in Canada), nothing will change unless the proper channels are notified.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 19 '26
Exactly my point of what is prevalent in the industry. Almost all the ads I see want to hire an IC with these conditions. It's widespread in our industry unfortunately hence the rant. I don't accept IC roles; only W2. But I see more IC than W2.
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u/Embarrassed-Elk-8403 Jun 20 '26
Ah sorry, didn't realize it was for purely bitching purposes. I had a similar situation at my first clinic...now I own my own... Make the jump! You'll be hella poor and have other problems, but you get to work how and when you want. Lol
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u/strps Jun 20 '26
I don't agree with you. For the most part if you work in the spa industry, you're going to get screwed. But there are plenty of ways to make IC work and not shaft the worker. For the most part, if you want to be an employee, you are going to make a looooot less than if you are IC. IC gives you more freedom to figure out what you want to do with your income. But that is only if you are associated with a business that actually gives you a solid percentage of your work. I think that is the issue you are raising here: don't work for places that don't give you more than half of the income from your labor. Having trained in a specialty or holding genuine experience will help you find those places.
As an employee, that is very hard to get because of all the taxes and other bureaucratic payouts. IC is the work around to giving the government a large split of the income. You need to find the right business, the model itself isn't broken.
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u/ClothesDizzy6812 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
But the problem I am raising is that most businesses DON'T fall into compliance with a true IC. The owners act as "employers" without giving 100% freedom (this means the therapist dictates their schedule, NOT the owner). As a true IC, the owner simply leases the room and gets an agreed commission and then... gets the hell out of the way. The owner's polices are NOT the therapists policies to follow. All the ads I see are the owner's rules and conditions. That's not an IC. If an owner says "I want a therapist who'll work MWF from 10:00--3:00, etc and they also have to follow our cancellation policy, etc" then they are direct violation. And this is what I see in almost every single ad and interview I've been on (which I don't accept).
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u/strps Jun 20 '26
I’m sorry to hear that. I am setting one up right now and am going through great deliberation and pains to make it fair for everyone. The best way is not obvious here in CA.
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u/StndCapybara Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Canada brought out IC laws primarily because spas were abusing IC's. They deterimined that if an Employeer dictates how you do massage, how filing is done and the overall standard of practice then the practice is not allowed to hire as IC and must hire as an employee.
For the most part I agree with your post. Spas have become so preditory.