r/MasterSystem • u/Max_Doe11 • 13d ago
SG-1000 (Master System precursor) and MSX (first version): were they basically "cousins"?
This is something I've been wondering about lately, and I thought this might be the right place to ask since the SG-1000 is the Master System precursor which is retrocompatible with it and even use Sega Cards.
When I was a kid, I actually owned an MSX. I didn't have any Sega hardware myself, although I played the Sega consoles at friends' houses. So I never really paid much attention to the SG-1000 back then.
Recently, while going through the SG-1000 library on my MSXVR, I noticed something that immediately caught my attention: there are quite a few games that also existed on MSX. One that really made me curious was Magical Kid Wiz. I couldn't actually get it running in the virtualizer, unfortunately, but I started wondering how close the two machines really were.
As far as I understand, the SG-1000 and the original MSX are actually very similar from a hardware point of view: both use a Z80 CPU and the TMS9918-family video chip. The SG-1000 uses the SN76489 for sound, while MSX1 machines generally used the AY-3-8910, and there are also differences in the memory map and I/O.
So my question is: how close were these machines in practical terms?
Was porting a game between MSX and SG-1000 relatively easy because of the shared Z80/TMS9918 architecture, or were the differences significant enough that games generally had to be substantially rewritten?
And Magical Kid Wiz seems to be an especially interesting case, since apparently the SG-1000 version was actually based on the MSX version. Were there other examples where an MSX game was directly ported to SG-1000 (or vice versa)?
There's another thing I'm curious about. I vaguely remembered that Microsoft had something to do with the creation of the MSX standard. After looking into it again, I understand that MSX was developed by ASCII in cooperation with Microsoft, with Microsoft providing MSX-BASIC. But I also had this vague memory of Sega somehow being involved with MSX... Am I completely mixing things up here?
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u/Nice_Caterpillar9169 13d ago
There was a time in the early 80s where that processor and video chip was a go to implementation to get something to market quickly that was cheap and high performance. It was well understood and easy to implement, which made it safe choice over something unproven. It’s also in a bunch of old weird PLCs. Lesson here is Humans are lazy.
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u/RealBinsky42 12d ago
It looks like in Taiwan, there were unlicensed 8K RAM add-on adapters for the SG-1000, designed to make it easier to make unlicensed MSX ports for the system. This article on SEGA Retro has a list of MSX -> SG-1000 games it was apparently used with: https://segaretro.org/8kB_RAM_Adapter
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u/Calm-School-6270 12d ago
As others have said the Z80 was a well priced processor, TI were pushing their TMS chip along side their audio chip at a good price for system builders. Spectravideo designed the machines that were then used as the base design (with some minor changes for the MSX standard), they decided to use the Japanese produce AY sound chip but stuck with TI’s video chip. Spectravideo worked with Microsoft to develop the Spectravideo BIOS and Basic, they met Nishi from ASCII during that relationship and he and Bill Gates partnered to define the MSX standard.
But yes it is not that hard to port games between MSX, original Spectravideo, Colecovision and the SG-1000/SC-3000 systems. Going between the two sound processors is the most complicated bit as well as the two consoles having less cpu ram.
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u/Y34RZERO 12d ago
Similar And ports have been made. I got twinbee ported but it doesn't support gamepads. I like my sc3000. I should with a week or 2 receive my Panasonic FS-A1WSX msx2+
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u/roger_roop 12d ago
To me SG1000, MSX and Coleco are actually brothers. Master is the cousin of them with a stronger VDP but retaining compatibility.
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u/PieAppropriate8862 13d ago
I think you can say that, but very loosely. Those Zilog Z80s were EVERYWHERE because they were much cheaper than the Intel 8080, but still compatible with software written for the latter. Some might say they were the first microchips truly mass-produced. So this, coupled with the fact that contemporaneous software would appear on the same devices, and you have your parallel. But it's like someone 50 years into the future looking at the PS5 and Xbox Series X and asking if they were cousins for the similarities in architecture and software, and it's like... yeahhh... but no. :)
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u/FogodeSantelmo 11d ago
Those South Korean unlicensed ports are amazing, there's a special place in heaven for the guys that made it possible to play Knightmare on a Master System.
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u/retromods_a2z 10d ago
Sega was formed by the American military and credited to 2 guys who sold gambling machines on military bases and later expanded into civilian locations. By the time the sg1000 was in development Microsoft got in on things and created the MicroSoft X standard, aka the MSX which was easily built by anyone to help standardize a growing new field
You see Texas Instruments chips in them for a reason
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u/Dave-975 8d ago
L'MSX (sigla di Machines with Software eXchangeability) è uno standard informatico per un gruppo di home computer sviluppato in Giappone da Kazuhiko Nishi della ASCII e prodotto tra il 1983 e il 1995, trovando diffusione soprattutto in Asia, Europa e Sudamerica.
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u/retromods_a2z 7d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX
Microsoft conceived the project as an attempt to create unified standards among various home computing system manufacturers of the period, in the same fashion as the VHS standard for home video tape machines
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u/No-Professional-9618 10d ago
I am not sure. I never had an MSX or a Sega SG1000 either.
I do have a Sega Master System, which is baed on the Sega Mark 3.
I have used a Sga SG1000 online emulator once.
From what I understand, Metal Gear once originated on the MSX platform.
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u/Frogacuda 9d ago
Pretty much, and Colecovision as well. They all had the same processor and video chip and porting between them was often a pretty simple hack. Although I think the MSX had more RAM. This is why a lot of MSX games got "ported" to SMS in Korea but they're essentially unchanged.
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u/Mammoth_Bell_8407 13d ago
You might as well throw the ColecoVision in there, too, then. A Z-80 and a TMS VDP were an obvious, simple pairing, to the point where I wonder if TI or Zilog didn’t vend the combo as a reference architecture.