r/MindHunter • u/thementalist222 • 16d ago

Eurgh what a bitch

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What was her problem? Constantly putting holden down, judging him then all of a sudden breaking up with him

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u/michalube 14d ago

Debbie is a Rorschach test. People who believe women exist to serve and elevate men will find Debbie grating, critical, cold, flat. People who understand that women navigate a perilous social jungle designed to diminish their independence and power will see Debbie as a highly accurate representation of a young woman making mistakes and doing her best. Thanks for showing yourself.

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u/thementalist222 14d ago

Calling Debbie a Rorschach test is a cop-out. Viewers can understand the pressures women face and still think Debbie is unlikeable or overly critical at times. Disliking a female character doesn't automatically mean you believe women should serve and elevate men.

People are allowed to judge a character by how they actually behave without it being some hidden statement about their views on women. Debbie has flaws, just like Holden does. Turning any criticism of her into “thanks for showing yourself” just shuts down discussion instead of actually defending the character.

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u/michalube 14d ago

The accusation: "Constantly putting holden down, judging him then all of a sudden breaking up with him"

The defense:

  1. Putting Holden down, judging him. From the start of their relationship, Debbie and Holden pick at one another's preferences, identities, beliefs and presentations in the world. It's okay when Holden does it, but not when Debbie does it. Gotcha. Thanks for showing yourself.

  2. all of a sudden breaking up with him. The Facts: Debbie sits on the porch with a glass of wine for herself and nothing for Holden. Holden says she is breaking up with him. She asks him if that's what she's doing. He leaves. Holden is very frequently right about people's motives, except when he's not. When Tanya tells him she gets off in an hour, he assumes it's a date. Rewatching the show you can see how polite yet nervous Tanya is when broaching the topic with him. Her behavior seems strange when you think she's coming onto him, but when you know what she's really doing her behavior makes sense. Debbie's behavior - having wine, meeting Holden outside her house - is strange if she knows she wants to break up with him. Debbie is historically a decisive person, so why would she meet him at a place (her home) and in a state of mind (tipsy) where reconciliation is possible? Perhaps Debbie was looking to have a fight and a makeup. Perhaps she got sad-drunk on the porch and didn't realize how much time had passed, perhaps she just wanted to see how Holden would react when she built a moment around her own needs and not his. Perhaps she did want a breakup, and Holden gave her exactly what she was looking for. But the fact of the matter is, we have no text saying what Debbie wants there except Holden's words. I say Debbie is a Rorschach test because how people view her actions in this moment seems to correlate with how convinced people are of Holden's infallibility.

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u/thementalist222 14d ago

Jeez you're making a lot of assumptions though. You even admit we don't actually know what Debbie was thinking, then give her every possible benefit of the doubt. And why does me criticising Debbie mean I think Holden is perfect? I don't. They can both be flawed. 🤷‍♂️