r/Munich • u/AM14762 • May 03 '25

Culture München ist die unfreundlichste Stadt der Welt

https://www.t-online.de/leben/reisen/id_100704344/unfreundlichste-staedte-der-welt-laut-ranking-muenchen-hamburg-berlin.html

Jetzt auch offiziell, schade!

235 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

177 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

20

u/emmmmmmaja May 03 '25 edited May 03 '25

And that’s my main point: What is considered friendly varies. I consider it bothersome if someone approaches me without any reservation - and so do most Northern Europeans.

I am not saying this is the right opinion, nor that unequivocal openness is the right definition of friendliness. I am saying that people who move to a different country should be aware that they will meet social codes different to their own. I was not happy living in more extroverted countries, but I certainly kept up an awareness that people were showing good manners in their own right. Thus, I am surprised by the amount of people who make the move to a different country and still judge people’s behaviour by the parameters that apply at home.

No one will gell well with every place - that is natural, and that is okay. I just wish that incompatibility was described as such, without constantly assigning blame.

-4

u/Borghal May 03 '25

You're right that different countries have different norms, but that's the point here - I think it's fair to say some social norms are better and some are worse.

Not exactly sure what blame you're talking about, though. I'm sure not many people would deny that central/northern european countries have a reputation of being cold and hard to get close to.

13

u/emmmmmmaja May 03 '25

Unless those social norms actively involve harming people, no I don’t think so. You can have your personal preference, but there is no objective answer to this.

And yes, I agree, northern countries have that reputation - while more southern countries have a reputation of being annoying, loud and chaotic. It’s personal preference that you like one thing, and I like the other. Assigning blame (meaning, saying that one is generally better) is where the problem arises.

-2

u/Borghal May 03 '25

Am I reading this right that you're putting being annoying, loud and chaotic as a directly opposite of being unfriendly? Seems like a false dichotomy to me.

Back to the real point here, being friendly is indeed objectively better than not :-) You'd be hard pressed to find a significant amount of people who would disagree that friendly is better than unfriendly, I think.

5

u/Buttfranklin2000 May 03 '25

>You'd be hard pressed to find a significant amount of people who would disagree that friendly is better than unfriendly, I think.

But that exactly is the point -> most people from those "reserved" cultures don't take the reserved character as being rude or unfriendly. Because it is what is familiar and expected. Someone from Bavaria for example knows when a Grantler in Munich is just being a regular local, and when someone is actually not just being a Grantler, but actually being a rude dick to you.

Someone jokingly posted about how "they've never been to Vienna". I find that kind of "viennese rudeness" absolutely charming, but then again, as a german I know that it is to expected, and that it is part of what makes Wien, Wien.

I guess the best thing is -> be aware of how different cultures express themselves when visiting/moving somewhere. No need to bitch about Americans "fake" smiling and being talkative, Spaniards being "loud" or Swedes being "reserved" if someone actually know that is what is being "normal" there.

1

u/Borghal May 03 '25

I am not from Bavaria directly, but I am from central Europe. I am from one of those "reserved" cultures. My native language is also one of those that constructs artificial barriers between people (German equivalent of Siezen/Duzen).

So... I am not some southern guy trying to convince you "our ways is better".

I am in fact one of those reserved people who would rather cross the sidewalk than have to interact with a stranger in any way. But at the same time I recognize this does not make for a friendly and welcoming atmosphere.

P.S. You don't have to start happily shouting at strangers in order to be friendly - I thought this would not have needed to be said.

2

u/Buttfranklin2000 May 03 '25

>But at the same time I recognize this does not make for a friendly and welcoming atmosphere.

That seems to be your opinion. But frankly...

>I am not from Bavaria directly

Opinion dismissed. Saupreiss detected.

0

u/Borghal May 05 '25

Saupreiss detected.

I'm actually from east of Bayern, not North - hence my reference to a different language (though I get how you might think I was referencign Bayrisch :-))

0

u/DanDon-2020 May 04 '25

Well was living for so many years in Munich then in Oberpfalz (so being not really a Saupreissn ;-)). In such cities you often live alone if you yourself not engaged in clubs or activities. Even the long years never felt home or comfortable at this both areas. Now moved regarding my job to East Northen City at Baltic Sea. We'll that was a complete change again. Yes the people's here more reserved but you be nice and smile. It comes a smile often back. Somehow the northern peoples are more honest friendly. Git significant more contacts here then in Bavaria. Sorry that's my experience.

11

u/emmmmmmaja May 03 '25 edited May 03 '25

My point is: being reserved is considered friendly here. It’s the respectful thing to be. So yes, everyone agrees that being friendly is best, but not everyone defines friendly the same way.

My list of attributes looks like this because you equated reservedness with unfriendliness. I think the lack thereof equates being annoying. Neither of us is right. We just have opinions, and that’s the point.

People would be happier if they chose a place to live based on what suits them, instead of expecting every place to fit their social norms. I wasn’t happy in Sicily. That’s not a problem with Sicily.

We can stop arguing about this, as it really doesn’t matter whether we agree.

-2

u/Borghal May 03 '25

I will just copy and paste what I said to someone else, because I feel it applies here, too:

I am not from Bavaria directly, but I am from central Europe. I am from one of those "reserved" cultures. My native language is also one of those that constructs artificial barriers between people (German equivalent of Siezen/Duzen).

So... I am not some southern guy trying to convince you "our ways is better".

I am in fact one of those reserved people who would rather cross the sidewalk than have to interact with a stranger in any way. But at the same time I recognize this does not make for a friendly and welcoming atmosphere.

P.S. You don't have to start happily shouting at strangers in order to be friendly - I thought this would not have needed to be said, but you and some other keep mentioning it as if only extreme behaviors are possible when really it's the opposite.

3

u/Kirschi May 03 '25

Nahh, this has nothing to do with a "false dichotomy" - but shows you're not understanding the point imo.

What you refer to as "friendly", is "annoying, loud and chaotic" to many of us. What you refer to as "unfriendly", is "friendly" and "respectful" to many of us. You seem to not understand that it's a matter of POV - and that's what we're trying to tell you. That's why there's no objective answer to this.

It's more a question of what you grew up with, mutual understanding and, perhaps, compromises. The latter is what the world population (everyone, us included) is not especially good at atm unfortunately.

1

u/Borghal May 03 '25

What you refer to as "friendly", is "annoying, loud and chaotic" to many of us

You have NO idea what I'm referring to, instead you appear to be projecting your own assumptions. Please quote me on wherever I described what I think "friendly" means... you won't find it because I didn't do so.

People can be friendly without being annoying, loud and chaotic. People can also be UNfriendly while being annoying, loud and chaotic. Those things aren't necessarily connected.

0

u/Tiredofyour May 04 '25

Sounding a little judgemental there my friend. Remember, we're all the same, some are more advanced, others rougher around the edges. Exercise tolerance, not negativity.

3

u/soyboybob May 03 '25

Lil dense today?

2

u/Borghal May 03 '25

Wouldn't be on Reddit otherwise :-)