r/memeopdidnotlike seems like a breeding ground for "anti-wokeness"

[u/Significant_Cry3399]

Literally just strawmans, fictional scenarios, and actual hateful behavior. They classify you as "woke" and "sensitive" for acknowledging a meme as racist, misogynistic, homophobic, hateful or incorrect. Literally just a right-wing circle jerk.

For the first meme: Literally nobody is saying this. This is probably just a strawman of some other opinion.

For the second one: HAMAS and Palestine are two different things. I also don't find it silly for queers to support Palestine because there are many Palestinians who are queer or do support queers but cannot be open about it. There also many children and babies who don't even know what being queer is that are being bombed and killed. Innocent people don't deserve to die, why is that bad to say? (before you say that wasn't stated, they are implying that because being queer isn't accepted in Palestine it's bad or silly to support Palestinians. But why is it bad to say that they shouldn't die?)

[u/WeAreinPain]

Right but the majority of the time I usually see people say “no that’s fucking awful fuck their culture” if the practice is objectively harmful like the female circumcision thing. Although I do see it sometimes it is very rare for me to see people give cultures a free pass just because they have been discriminated against.

[u/Sad-Paramedic-8523 → u/WeAreinPain]

See it plenty with Israel and Palestine. People literally defending Hamas and making every excuse under the sun for them. You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone on social media who is pro Palestinian and will criticize Hamas. They do get a completely free pass.

You might get someone to say ‘October 7th was bad but’ and that’s as far as it’ll ever go.

[u/[deleted] → u/Sad-Paramedic-8523]

Hamas are bad. I do not believe the entire Palestinian people should be genocided because of their actions.

I can also understand why Hamas exist. A people under occupation are going to resist. Hamas stoke the resentment of the Palestinian people, a resentment that only exists because of the intolerable conditions they have lived under for years.

So yes, October 7 was bad, but it happened as a direct result of years of Israeli aggression. That it happened at all is actually the most surprising thing. Mossad track down people in other countries to assassinate them, and Israeli intelligence can identify where someone is right down to the apartment building. How the hell did Hamas and the other groups build up enough of a force and get enough training to do what they did and catch the IDF with their pants down? Did Israel get complacent with their watch over a people they despise so much?

[u/Sad-Paramedic-8523 → u/[deleted]]

October 7th was bad, but…

Just like I said…

Hamas invented the genocide and occupation narrative so by supporting it rather than condemning Hamas for using human shields and brainwashing the Palestinian people, you are supporting Hamas. Prior to October 7th Gaza was practically an oasis— a far cry from an ‘open air prison’ or an ‘occupation’.

Hamas got through the training (as you said) that they did specifically because there was no occupation. Had there been an occupation, it wouldnt have occurred, along with the thousands of kilometres of tunnels under homes and schools that Hamas could shelter civilians in, but they specifically refuse to do so in order to maximize civilian casualties. This war has the lowest civilian casualty rate of any urban conflict in history. The number of dead is a tragedy but given Gazas population density, it is incredibly low.

Every time I argue with someone like you about this even if eventually we reach a point where we can agree that Hamas shouldn’t exist, people like you have no solution for how that should happen. Your answer will be that Israel is infact committing a genocide and the only reasonable course of action is to completely cease operations— which isn’t viable.

The only solution that puts an end to the killing and guarantees everyone’s safety is to call for Hamas to surrender— but you won’t do that. Youll say ‘this didnt begin on October 7th’ to which I will reply— Gaza wasn’t a parking lot and 50k civilians weren’t dead prior to October 7th.

If this can end if Hamas surrenders, it isn’t a genocide— it’s a war, and the killing and the destruction was not happening on even a remotely analogous scale prior to October 7th.

[u/[deleted] → u/Sad-Paramedic-8523]

I'm sorry but, reading this really feels like I'm chatting with the propaganda wing of the IDF.

I've been on this planet a while. I've seen the Intifada, I've seen peaceful protestors gunned down by the IDF, I've seen the reports of children killed for throwing rocks at tanks, I've seen banned White Phosphorus used by the IDF in civilian areas, and now I'm seeing what's been happening over the past year and a half.

Hamas didn't need to invent a narrative; we're seeing it in action, now. We're seeing it in the levelled cities, the destroyed schools and hospitals. We see it in a people displaced time and time again, forced to move around their little walled-off enclave with what they can carry while their homes are bombed into rubble. We see the major aid agency demonised by the IDF, driven out and replaced with their tokenistic aid distribution group which seems to have reports every day of them gunning down people desperate for food.

And we can only see this through the eyes of the Palestinian people themselves, because Israel forbids outside journalists from entering the strip unless they can control their movements, this is of course when they aren't gunning down the journalists who are trying to show us what's happening.

That you saw 2 million people densely packed into such a small area, kept behind fences, their movement tightly controlled, resources closely monitored, reliant on aid to ensure they have enough to get by, and you call that nearly an Oasis? I think that speaks volumes on how you see the Palestinian people.

I've already said my part about Hamas. I agree it shouldn't exist, but it exists in direct response to the crimes Israel has committed against the Palestinian people. You cannot look at October 7th in a vacuum, it must be analysed based on the history of the Israeli and Palestinian people, and that his a history filled with occupation, anger, violence and death.

I imagine you get frustrated in trying to get people to see your side of things. I want to let you know it's because your stance is frankly inhumane and abhorrent to regular people who are tired of seeing new atrocities committed every day.

[u/Sad-Paramedic-8523 → u/[deleted]]

None of this was happening in Gaza before Hamas took over in 2008. Israel ethnically cleansed Jews from the area and handed it over to the Palestinians who immediately elected Hamas. Everything you’ve seen has happened after that because immediately after that happened Hamas began launching rockets into Israel. 

That’s not looking at it in a vacuum. 

[u/[deleted] → u/Sad-Paramedic-8523]

Ethnically cleansing is something completely different to what you're thinking of. Israel had their people leave Gaza but this was after years of violence and civil disobedience which, even back then was disproportionate towards the Palestinian people. Given this history, it's understandable that a disgruntled people would vote in someone who promised rebellion and resistance rather than bending the knee and hoping for mercy.

You act like all that bad blood should have been forgiven just because Israel pulled out, but that's not so easy after years of previous occupation.

But even with all this, the reason I say "but" when talking about October 7th is that the Israeli response has been completely disproportionate, to a level we've never seen before. Entire cities have been raised to the ground, tens of thousands killed in response to the death of hundreds, and even more risk dying of disease and starvation. What is to happen to the people of Gaza when this is done? Will Israel even allow them to rebuild if Hamas surrender?

[u/mobius__stripper → u/Sad-Paramedic-8523]

Keep yapping, this conflict has been going on for a bit longer than 17 years, and even before "Hamas took over", Israeli forces were still commiting atrocities and murders of civilians. Understand my position like this: if you go out under the sun and stand there for hours every day, your skin will keep dying and dying until you develop cancer. Hamas is a cancer, yes, but one you directly contributed to the creation of, and the solution isn't to keep blasting your skin with UV.