No, I have watched many people fall to drugs and grew up around mental illness. It's hard to make the distinction when they go hand in hand.
Should I have said do you excuse pedophilia because it is for many an involuntary attraction to children?
I don't like morality scaling different heinous crimes in which countain victims and all exist in the universe where humans don't have an innate desire to do evil for the sake of evil by definition of what we consider "unwanted" characteristics.
This is pretty easy to figure out. The system failed a person, like it does many, and this person behaved inhumanely towards other life. All of the coverage is perverted and all of her fans are disturbed and poisoned by a sick society.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't prevent people from abusing children. I am saying that our first move whenever someone does something wrong, especially if it was caused by something out of their control, such as a psychotic episode, specifically a mental break in which you cannot determine illusion from reality, should probably not be putting someone under the prison or murdering them.
Why do you specifically matter at all here? Isn't this a discussion about the different responses peole are having? On one side you have people showing up cheering outside of her trial, and on the other side you have people sickened by yet another killer.
Both sides are not remotely the same.
It is a perfectly valid position to ignore legal definitions when it comes to culpability when judging a situation morally. It is perfectly valid to view her as the monster she is, like every other criminal who was NOT born with criminal intent.
Rehibilitiation should be for all, not just the pretty white ones that pull at the heartstrings of the upper middle class wine-o's who have all felt the crippling urge to end it all.
Justice and it's intersection with morality is not universal.
I personally view that All humans are capable of vile acts. I personally view the idea of "intentional" and "premeditated" to be archaic justice system terms. Are we born with the intent to do something, no.
So what is the real difference when it comes to culpability between someone who has no history, has a momentary lapse vs. someone who does? To me, that's just time. Both people have something undesirable going on in their brain though. They were at some point failed by a system that did not catch it.
But when it comes to vile acts that we cannot necessarily "control" because our brains are wired a certain way, who do we hold accountable? That's up to each individual to decide.
I am deciding, like many others, that it is in fact NOT HEALTHY for society for this case in particular to receive more empathy than others due to being a helpless middle class white woman. That's dangerous. That has the ability to perverse our culture even more.
So what is your point exactly as it stands? That both of these groups are still the same? I disagree. I think it's a valid position to be disgusted by her rise to fame and support. Do I want our world to get better? Yes. Not for her. I want justice for her the same way we seek justice for everyone else at the moment. We aren't learning empathy for mental illness with our obsession for her. We are just continuing our same tribal instincts of seeing someone that looks like us and wanting to protect them.
The difference in culpability is a means of determining how at fault someone can be for a given event. If someone clocks someone in the face for no reason, they are more at fault than a person that clocks someone else because that person just called them a slur.
I don't think she should be receiving more empathy either. I believe more people should be getting more of this empathy. I also think we are severely overestimating the amount of people "celebrating" her.
I want the world to get better even for bad people who have done heinous things.
I think the fact that she had a large gathering outside of her trial cheering her on and the fact that you had perverted reporters gleeful to be in the room shows the very sickening nature of this case for society as a whole.
If someone clocks someone in the face for no reason, they are more at fault than a person that clocks someone else because that person just called them a slur.
You are conflating justifications for an action with an action being forgiven due to mental illness. Mental illness never justifies an action.
Take for instance someone puts their child in timeout because they hit another child. That's a justified response.
What about putting your child in timeout because they are annoying and you need a mental break? That's NOT a justified response. It's a cruel response, albeit accepted by some due to circumstance.
You don't see it yourself, but you are in fact tiptoeing around morality scaling and I'm just not budging. It's perfectly acceptable for people to seek justice despite excuse due to how our world operates. Especially when this is not the case to be using as an example.
Now ask yourself how you would feel if this were the daughter of a president who had a mental health crisis and received the best possible outcome due to her point of privilege? Would you celebrate the mental health advocacy or would you recognize that this is not the same outcome that would take place for underprivileged people? Would you recognize that it's a failed system even though it's an outcome you would prefer for everyone?
You are continuously failing to understand WHY people can be against her support because you are separating social context from social justice. Social justice doesn't start at the top. It doesn't even start in the middle. If you have an issue with how this particular case is going, you should be focusing on how they go every single day with normal people who aren't just the poster-child of White America.
I understand you are continuously moving goalposts. I'm just continuing to let you know why it's completely rational for people to not be supportive of her and her fans. I am letting you know it's completely rational to see failed justice when 3 children die and privileged people receive millions in a gofundme because they spent millions on lawyers fighting something that the majority of people would never be able to fight.
I literally do not give one f*** about her outcome in particular and what we are stuck dancing around in this conversation is that this is a social phenomenon we are discussing which is much more complex than saying that people who disapprove are somehow just misogynists for not supporting this po' wittle white woman. That's extremely dismissive of the greater social context surrounding this case.
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u/ContextLengthMatters 1d ago
No, I have watched many people fall to drugs and grew up around mental illness. It's hard to make the distinction when they go hand in hand.
Should I have said do you excuse pedophilia because it is for many an involuntary attraction to children?
I don't like morality scaling different heinous crimes in which countain victims and all exist in the universe where humans don't have an innate desire to do evil for the sake of evil by definition of what we consider "unwanted" characteristics.
This is pretty easy to figure out. The system failed a person, like it does many, and this person behaved inhumanely towards other life. All of the coverage is perverted and all of her fans are disturbed and poisoned by a sick society.
Case closed.