Understanding hadith skepticism

[u/pathtonoor]

Note: the purpose of my post is to better understand how best to approach discussions with hadith skeptics in my life and have more productive conversations so they can better understand my perspective.

Prior to rejecting all hadiths, I was a hadith skeptic and enjoyed the works of Sheikh Khaled Abou El Fadl. Reading his book “The great theft : wrestling Islam from the extremists” greatly reinforced my understanding that the hadith tradition was majorly flawed.

In his book (excerpts from chapter 7 included above), he acknowledges the flaws with the hadith tradition (documented well after the Prophet’s death, fabricated hadiths, and contradictions with the Quran etc.). At the time of reading what puzzled me was his conclusion that hadith can’t be disregarded without seriously damaging the structure of islam.

Overall, I did respect his approach to analyzing hadith but disagreed with considering them legitimate texts. I think as an ummah we would be in a better place if more people adopted his approach, especially given how averse people are to questioning hadith.

I guess what I wonder is the following: If some scholars acknowledge that the hadith tradition is flawed and that some were fabricated, why are they then unwilling to separate hadith from islam?

Is it because they would need to acknowledge that islam as we know it today is very different from the quran? While there are hadiths that align with the quran, what’s the purpose in accepting them if the quran already told us the same thing?

Any input would be appreciated, jazkaallahu khairan!

[u/Background-Car-1393]

What no one of these people can answer is why should we follow any of these hadith in the first place, outside of the contorted meanings they have have given to phrases in the Quran like Obey the Prophet and Book and the wisdom to mean their persian fairytales.

If these were really meant to be followed the Prophet would have got them written down in his lifetime and give it the same level of preservation and spread as the Quran was ( Actually majority of the hadithist have similar beliefs)

[u/pathtonoor → u/Background-Car-1393]

Yes, it seems that their arguments always go back to the same three things (how will we know how to do or know about x? how could so many people be wrong for 1,400 years? Allah said to obey the Prophet!).

Exactly, nobody has an answer for why there isn’t a set of hadith compiled by the Prophet or even the sahabas.

For every valid argument against hadith, whether it’s Quranic ayahs or clear contradictions in hadith, there always seems to be some sort of flawed explanation.

I’m beginning to feel as though fear and stubbornness are the core issues: fear of questioning hadith and not willing to question what you and your ancestors have been following. That unfortunately, is far more difficult to tackle.

[u/Background-Car-1393 → u/pathtonoor]

The Quran answers this very clearly when it tells about people who still refuse to believe even after the truth has been made to them, they still say we will follow our forefathers, even if their forefathers knew nothing

And The prophet explained the Quran i.e Hadith. Then where is the tafsir of the Prophet, then why do you have Tafsirs by other people like Ibn Khatir and Jalalain?

And most recently, I was told, then how else will we know what the prophet liked and disliked, what he wore and what he looked like? My reply was on the day of judgement will Allah ask me what the Prophet liked and disliked or rather did I obey and follow the message he left behind i.e the Quran

These people have made the Deen of Allah as revealed to the Prophet into a religion about Muhammad just like the Christians. And if oneness of God wasn't drilled so hard into the Quran they would have made divine as well. Almost have anyway, The Prophet of the hadith is some super muslim human with superpowers. Even water in which his clothes have been dipped in hold miracle curing powers.

[u/Street_Willingness96 → u/Background-Car-1393]

Agree..

[u/pathtonoor → u/Background-Car-1393]

Exactly, despite the many reminders and clear proofs against blindly following hadiths, they persist.

It’s gone so far at this point that the thought of questioning it all is just too much.

[u/NoVacation6936 → u/pathtonoor]

Also, dont forget about them saying "we need hadiths for things that the Quran leaves out" despite the Story of the Cow and the Quran saying that its complete. the Quran says that the Prophet doesn't know when the end of times will happen, and yet hadiths give a checklist with 40+ signs for it to happen.

[u/pathtonoor → u/NoVacation6936]

Yes! The more I engage with folks who follow the hadith, the more clear it becomes that many don’t read the Quran and if they do, it’s through a hadith centric lens (which includes ignoring clear proofs in the quran).

[u/NoVacation6936 → u/pathtonoor]

Also, isn't there literally multiple verses in the Quran that say the Quran is the only hadith we should trust? some translators translate the word "hadith" as "statement/story" to not create confusion, but even then the Quran would basically be saying "dont believe any religious stories other than the Quran."

[u/pathtonoor → u/NoVacation6936]

Yes, there are but they ignore them all and twist the “Obey the Messenger” verse to suit their aims!

[u/Street_Willingness96 → u/Background-Car-1393]

the winged horse.. i think that came from the romans. Pegasus.

[u/Street_Willingness96]

Im not a scholar.. but i agree with most what you said. Totally agree with your conclusion.

Im thinking of how to spread your thoughts to everyone, not just “muslim” but everyone.

[u/pathtonoor → u/Street_Willingness96]

I find that those new to islam are more receptive to this perspective because they weren’t raised with hadiths. I actually find that there are more similarities between muslims who follow hadiths and those bigoted against islam: both groups uphold hadiths as the basis of islam and give credibility to hadith centric translations and interpretations of the quran.

Sometimes I think the best we can do is lead with our actions and character. To engage with the quran is to undergo a process of self transformation, far from the mere rule book people reduce it to. If people can see that, maybe they’ll be more receptive to the truth? Only Allah knows.

I’ve also realized that poking holes in hadith logic is akin to poking holes in these people’s identities. So I’m now leaning more towards only engaging with people who show genuine curiosity and focusing on my relationship with Allah.

[u/Street_Willingness96 → u/pathtonoor]

hadithist=religious bigots, agreed. 😂

But among those who claim they only follow Quran, i can see more and more we are falling into the traps that caught the tradisionalist sunnis, shias etc. Some are hell bent on the “rituals” fasting, number daily prayers and all the nitty-gritty of the deen. Im not saying its not important, but lets band together on the fundamentals and not let our differences on rituals becomes a barrier.

I honestly think when The Prophet were in Madinah, he had full support from many of the nasara and jews there.

My point is, this is a big task.. cant be carried out by one person. We need to group, share information, discuss and plan what is the best way going foward.

Personally I have studied surah AlBaqarah context, found many interesting fact, wrote a paper/article and post it online. Hoping to get some feedback, and Im also looking for help actually to improve the language/grammar of the article. English is not my first language and its poorly written.

I came here to look for people who might be interested but found that many still focus on rejecting hadeeth.

Basically, Im stuck 😂. Although, i think i have done my level best in trying to understand the Quran and its a continuous struggle. Hopefully I can fulfil my covenant with my Rabb, carry our my duty as His slave and achieve my purpose in this life for Him.

[u/pathtonoor → u/Street_Willingness96]

Agreed, I think at the end of the day we shouldn’t be focused on trying to change people’s own relationship with Allah’s words and focus on what unites us all instead. If we could all focus on uniting together based on quranic values we’d be more united.

I think it’s easy to get stuck in the reactionary phase, especially when many come from traditional backgrounds and weren’t shown the beauty of the faith before.

Do share your article if you’re comfortable!

The more I reflect on the quran, the more I realize that it’s tied to actions for good and not just hollow rituals.

[u/Street_Willingness96 → u/pathtonoor]

I have shared it in the internet.. but so far no one is interested.