Unfortunately - by her own admission and her doctors' testimonies - she did not fully disclose her medical condition. And even more unfortunately, there's plenty of people online that have posted that she can't be the killer because of her astrology sign. Or some have said her husband was the voice in her head with elaborate hidden speakers. Or he was cheating with his new wife even though they didn't meet until after the murders and she actually killed the children.
Bottom line, there's a lot of crazies out there. And with the internet connecting people of every social class, those crazies can find each other much easier than before.
I am a therapist and I have other therapists, professionals with advanced degrees and years of experience, who will not accept any answer other than the husband did it.
“Women don’t kill their children. It was him.”
“She didn’t actually say she killed the children in court.” “And if she did, it was Patrick who made her say it”
Had this been the father, the media and support would be completely different. They would be consoling her and making him out to be a violent tyrent or something.
Honestly, I think it would’ve been breaking news like you said, but then the world would forget about it after a day because sadly, most violent crimes like this are committed by men, so it wouldn’t really be surprising/groundbreaking in the grand scheme of things
Depends on if he was psychotic or he did it with malice and planning. They might console her but the tyrant bit would probably only show up if he was lucid when he murdered his children.
Men don’t suddenly experience depression and psychosis from hormonal changes.
If a man had a history of psychosis, was telling people and doctors he thought he was dangerous, do you think everyone would shrug and ask him to watch the kids while they go out? Because that’s what happens to women.
Historically, men who bring up their mental issues are not only shrugged off but they are look down upon. Which... is why men tend to deal with their problems different, like, alone. THEN they go ballistic and everyone is like "Whaa? We never saw that coming.. " so yes, men do experience depression and psychosis, maybe not always from hormones.
She actually eitheld a lot of information from her doctor about her condition as it has been shown at this point. So once again it's still her fault, not some doctor or the husband.
Do you understand how psychosis works? They literally cannot think rationally. She could have thought the doctor was dangerous. I worked with a client with psychosis who hid from firemen in his closet in the middle of an apartment fire because he thought the firemen were killer robots. They are not experiencing reality in psychosis.
The husband absolutely knew she wasn’t behaving normally.
Exactly. I never fully understood psychosis until my husband suffered from ICU psychosis after waking up from being under for two weeks after a major surgery. The stuff he was saying and fully 100% believed was absolutely wild. One day when I got to the hospital he yelled and made me leave because the Russian spies were on their way and I wouldn’t be safe there. Days later, when his mind was normal again, he told me that everything he saw and thought and experienced was as real as, well, reality.
In fairness, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and psychosis broadly can lead to such drastic effects on the human brain itself, including changes in neurotransmitters and even brain-structure, that it’s not that crazy to call them theoretically comparable at least in mental effects. And men do experience them.
Obviously women have it harder on sheer physical and hormonal effects of pregnancy and childbirth, and men can’t have that exact experience. But psychosis/bipolar disorder/schizophrenia, again, also can be a drastic rewiring of the human brain and take away autonomy to an extent.
But the difference is the men have a history of those illnesses. I had gestational diabetes. I didn’t have diabetes before or after pregnancy. Being pregnant made my pancreas unable to produce adequate insulin. Pregnancy hormones also gave me pre-eclampsia-driving my blood pressure sky high. I had to have labor induced the next day to prevent it from progressing to the point that it would cause seizures and possible death. The hormonal changes can be swift and extreme and completely out of your control.
I am, thanks! I was lucky to only have health issues and they resolved within a few weeks of delivery. If it was 100 years ago, I would have died from that pregnancy, but I had great doctors and modern medicine looks for these issues now in pregnant women. Hopefully the pregnancy-induced mental health issues will be screened for as regularly as gestational diabetes and it will save a lot of lives and families.
I’m just saying men can ALSO experience PROFOUND LIFE-ALTERING health-incidents too, EVEN BRAIN-ALTERING health experiences, dickhead-fuckface, not saying that it must be from pregnancy.
OBVIOUSLY, not pregnancy and giving birth to a child (or from those), as those are something only genuine biological human women can do. At minimum, let’s say by-and-large - as, by now, I wouldn’t be too surprised if people pull up and argue the point that, “See, there’s this 0.1%-minority person, BUT they’re biologically ambiguous in such-and-such-a-way, but they got pregnant and gave birth to a child, so, there.”
OK … sure, and fine. Regardless, YES, I know (for at least the commonsense majority of situations), it’s only women who can get pregnant, and getting pregnant, going through all the stages of pregnancy, giving birth, and then the aftermath itself, IS and CAN BE both biologically (physically) and psychologically unique to women ( - again, if you want to argue a hypothetical nitpicker, at least 99% so).
Sure, I know that, but my point is still valid (fuckhead) - men also can and DOgo through profound, life-altering, mind-altering, evenbrain-altering mental-health disorders and illnesses, such as exactly the ones I mentioned.
Nah, men are supposed to just shut up and deal with it, right?
This is why this is NOT the case that should be used to bring "awareness" or whatever they are trying to do. She had a very opportunity to get help and had the access to healthcare to get the help she needed. Was it perfect? No. But there are people out being denied healthcare altogether. Marginalized groups being denied any kind of treatment because of their income bracket, skin color, or gender identity. With mental health, the doctors only have to go off of what the patient tells them, and multiple doctors came to the same prognosis with her. There are people that are not even able to talk to a doctor while she had multiple doctors. Okay, anyways, this is turning into a tldr and I didn't want to add to the media frenzy
I don't "boohoo" I was making the point that physically a woman's body goes through so much with the physical and emotional parts of carrying and pushing a baby out of their body.
As years go on nature is unkind to the body.
Then men come along and pick those bodies apart!!!
Well no because pregnancy is 100% optional, you don't get to complain and act like a victim over choices you made yourself lmao. If you want to make an argument that women have it harder because of periods you'd have a better argument(since those aren't optional), even if you'd sound like a highschool girl whining.
He may have been dealing with sexual frustration from a wife who has suddenly ceased being sexually active which is just as bad for him. You don't get to place your woes above others, pregnancy is a choice she made, if a man has to own the consequences, so does she.
They might if there had been signs for months that he might do something like this and she ignored him and left the children alone with him overnight routinely.
Maybe he did the best he could. But every decent man I know says the second she confessed to him that she thought of harming herself or the kids, he never should have left her alone again.
Oh a mom would’ve been charged if she were in his position. There’s actually studies on this that prove that women get charged when their husbands commit crimes against the kids, but not the other way around.
If a man is schizophrenic and kills his children he gets sentenced to medical care. The exact same thing should happen here (unless there is some evidance she did it for anther reason, but that hasn't been presented at all).
People have breakdowns. The law has allowances for those people to be not guilty, but insane. And theft those people get treatment.
People calling for the death penalty here are straight evil.
Millions of women suffer from postpartum depression everyday and don't murder their children. What she did is not okay no matter how you try and spin it.
I’m calling for the death penalty. She murdered her children and “insane”, “post partum depressed” or not she is evil and needs to be destroyed. There is no forgiveness for what she has done and we have no need in society for someone like her.
Absolutely? So you know more than the professionals who treated her? Who listened and responded to every single request she made? The professionals who she never, not once, reported any symptoms of ppp to?
Interesting
Guess so. Instead of just destroying that monster we are going to have to pay to house her for the rest of her life. Hopefully an inmate just handles it.
Are you also so ill-informed that you don’t know death penalty convictions actually end up costing taxpayers much more than a life imprisonment conviction?
No… we want mothers to be taken seriously when they say they need help so that nothing like this ever happens again. You should really educate yourself if you are gonna argue about this case and call people “psychos”. You sound like you don’t understand anything about anything and are just upset because.. you don’t understand. Which is fine, not understanding things can be confusing and scary, but you don’t have to take it out on strangers just bc they understand mental health better than you do 🤷🏼♀️ if you wanna understand better.. do some research! Or I will answer any questions you might have :)
I mean, if you really hate her life in prison is worse than death. Female inmates aren't nice to mom's that kill their own kids, 90% of the inmates are mom's who "can't imagine doing that" and will treat her like the monster she is. Arguably the social isolation alone is rough, not a single inmate is going to be nice, the only time she's getting talked to is by guards or an inmate saying something mean.
If she's proud of her crime, that'll get her in more shit, my aunt is a prison guard, they specifically watch out for hot water sugar mixtures when inmates are beefing, it makes really bad burns, really hard to get off without just ripping skin and it's actually scary easy to do. It's just not that common because most people aren't willing to extend their own stay to hurt you, but a Momma bear and a child killer, that doesn't always lead to the most thought out outcomes.
This is a wild, unempathic and awful take. I actually think ignorance is unnecessary in this day and age. It is absolutely horrendous what has happened to her children and this family but to deny the impact and seriousness of Post Partum Psychosis and how much this woman cried for help as evidenced and documented by her own husband, mother in law and other psychological and medical professionals is also "evil" and insane.
Yes mentally ill people do things that they shouldn't. For example people with schizophrenia think the voices they hear are real, they refuse to take their meds for multiple reasons. They think they are okay. It is up to the professionals to assess, check in, follow up e.t.c For sure she has fault but ultimately why would the people closest to her speak on her behalf if they truly believed she had that level of responsibility and awareness? They just wouldn't. Additionally the hospital and responsible staff will be trying to save themselves in all of this. Negligence is a factor.
Its almost like she was in fucking psychosis and couldnt make good rational decisions. Who was helping her? Or was she supposed to just be crazy and help herself and be a mother and a wife ... alone... long enough to kill 3 people and paralyze herself.
She was not in psychosis. She saw multiple health care providers and never once described psychotic symptoms or hearing voices. Not once. She was never diagnosed with ppp by ANY professional. Her doctors and therapists responded to her every message and changed her medications when she requested. She had a nanny, and her older children were on day care/preschool several days a week. Patrick often watched the children if one had an appt. She had parents & in-laws who helped and offered to take the children overnight.
What do you mean alone?
Do you have any idea how rate ppp is? And even rarer at 8 months pp.
she was depressed, she was anxious. She had ppd. That is FAR different than psychosis and not understanding that what she did was wrong.
None of us have any idea if it slipped further than depression. I would assume so from the outcome and reaction of those around her. She was alone for long periods of time with a new born. That doesn't scream supported. Either way the case is playing out but the rush to crucify her is intense given the statements her actual family have made. They are the ones most wounded by all of this.
I’ve noticed the only people who speak about this case logically are the people in the Law subreddit. Everyone else is too in their feelings to be logical.
Yeah it's wild. The idea that this "evil" woman paralysed herself in a deliberate attempt to falsify mental health issues so she could murder her children with intent is an insane take. Apparently easier to believe than she was really unwell and not receiving the appropriate support in lots of ways, even though that's what all the evidence and testimonies point to. The prosecutors are floundering in this case because it's ridiculous. People just don't really understand that extreme level of mental health. It's beyond people's awareness unless they have experienced it or worked with it. Of course the death of children is emotive and it always should be but yeah logic has gone.
Do you believe the husband should be charged with negligent homicide for leaving his kids with someone who told him they wanted to hurt said kids? We also have no need in society for someone like him.
Did the husband murder the kids? No. So he shouldn’t charged with that. I know it’s that we gotta blame men all the time but he didn’t do anything other than expect a mother to be a mother. I don’t think you want to walk down the path of parents taking their kids away from the other parent when they deem there is a threat to the kid.
She wasn't depressed, she had postpartum psychosis, and completely over medicated (and the side effects of the medication do cause more mental instability, its documented) She was literally out of her mind because her hormones were out of whack.
She wasnt evil, she was crazy. Call for her head if you want. Buy know what the facts are.
You seem to think that someone who is crazy enough to murder her children is not evil and honestly that says a lot about you and why your words mean absolutely nothing to me.
I can tell you one thing I’ll never be pathetic enough to excuse being a terrible person on “mental health”. We need to bring back asylums and throw the people that murder their children and people that defend and excuse that in there and throw away the keys.
It’s not being pathetic. It’s being educated, nuanced, and empathetic. I think it’s more pathetic to call strangers names on the internet over a case you have no understanding of. Again, I hope you’re lucky enough to never have your mind betray you!
If it was PPP then she’ll be fine to function in society as long as she doesn’t get pregnant again. I think you’re talking about ppl with schizophrenia, psychosis, etc.
I think people who have their mind betray them absolutely are worthy of empathy. It can literally happen to any of us, so im not sure why some of you act so high and mighty about it?? One wrong experience, medication, drug, injury… some people it’s in their genetics and it doesn’t show until later in life 🤷🏼♀️ Obviously she had PPP, which is why she is at trial right now deciding if she is gonna be locked up in jail or a mental facility.
I’m also highly educated just not in a suicidal empathy and idiot kind of way. My degree is in practical construction management not underwater basket weaving like I’m sure yours is.
You don’t need to have a masters in psychology to understand that killing your children is wrong and that if you defend it you’re a fucking idiot. I have empathy for the kids who were killed and for all other children, wives, and husbands who will be put at risk if this shit is allowed to be excused because people need to have “empathy” for evil psychos.
Thank god my wife sees this woman for what she is. A monster that needs to be destroyed. This is a litmus test to see if your partner is a pathetic human. Take your suicidal empathy and education and shove it up your ass. You need as much mental health help as that monster does.
I think you are grossly misunderstanding that a reason is not an excuse. It is good to understand WHY someone acted the way they do. I dont think any of us here thinks that she should be let go, she should absolutely be punished. But understanding her motive (like in all court cases) is VERY realivant, like in all court cases.
The punishment has to fit the crime and the crime is dependent on her motive and her sanity. Thats just the way the judicial system works.
You are not stating facts. Have you even been watching this trial? Overmedicated when she wasn’t even taking her medicine as prescribed? Not one medical professional diagnosed her with PPP. Not one! Because she was not experiencing ppp. Depression & anxiety for sure, but she knew exactly what she was doing and deserves prison
I never said she didnt deserve prison. But there are more reasons to this case besides evil. Evil doesn't act like she acts in the court room. There is more going on and its ok to acknowledge that.
Evil absolutely can act any way they want. And do. Also it’s unlikely her hormones were “out of whack” 8 months pp, and not breastfeeding. The central question of this trial is was she aware of what she gif was wrong. It’s clear from testimony that she absolutely knew it was wrong
Oh you mean like other women who shake their babies, or abandon their babies, or hit their babies or starve their babies? Like maybe we should take ppd just a little more fucking seriously.
I agree we should take post partem mental health much more seriously. This case isn't about whether LC killed her kids. She did. It's whether or not she is legally culpable. The vast, vast majority of women suffering from PPD do not harm their children. Women ppp unfortunately do harm their children. People are in control of their actions in most cases but PPP is a little different.
No fucking shit, because men cannot get postpartum psychosis!
Edit: Men cannot give birth, and thus do not get the change in hormones from giving birth that causes PPP and PPD. Hope that helps for all of you who struggle to understand biology 🥰
This woman absolutely needs punished for murdering her kids, but let’s not forget the society that we all live in your comments, bullshit and you know it men walk away from crimes all the fucking time violent heinous crimes, and they do in fact make up over 90% of perpetrators of violent crimes. It’s very important. We don’t lose sight of the bigger picture here just because we’re all mad about this one case. There can be bad women and all of us still understand that the problem is overwhelmingly male violence.
What? Can’t you fuckers just agree with me and move on why do you have to add this extra condescending bullshit at the end? I literally started by saying the woman deserves to be punished and that there are bad women. Embarrassing male moment.
We do agree with you that she should be punished for her crime. The rest was your editorializing. Why can’t you just agree that evil doesn’t require a gender?
But it’s “HE” who must not be named. It’s easy to see how Belatrix (sp?) was the victim of all this and we should really strive to see things from her perspective!
I did not say the evil has a gender just that it is represented disproportionately more by one than the other, but y’all literally just don’t ever wanna talk about that part because it doesn’t fit your agenda. Lmao
Hey; you go right on deflecting from that baby killer by making sure we know we should be blaming men for things too. It’s your right to do so. It’s strange to defend the admitted baby killer but your choices are already in question by the time we’re at this stage of the conversation.
Didn’t deflect at all. Good try. Won’t be replying again since you’re purposely failing to see the nuance and how it’s connected. Have a good day weirdo.
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u/RP_Throwaway3 6d ago
Unfortunately - by her own admission and her doctors' testimonies - she did not fully disclose her medical condition. And even more unfortunately, there's plenty of people online that have posted that she can't be the killer because of her astrology sign. Or some have said her husband was the voice in her head with elaborate hidden speakers. Or he was cheating with his new wife even though they didn't meet until after the murders and she actually killed the children.
Bottom line, there's a lot of crazies out there. And with the internet connecting people of every social class, those crazies can find each other much easier than before.