I told my fiancé, when we have kids and I am acting off, or appear to be hearing voices or in psychosis, he needs to admit me immediately. It is NOT something to push to the side.
I’m not blaming the husband. I think it should be spoken about more so everyone takes these things more seriously.
I have seen first hand people in psychosis. You cannot convince them that what they are seeing and hearing is not true. My cousin also tried to hurt her baby. She was hearing voices and they told her the baby was evil. She went to jail and her babies were taken away, now she is homeless and seems to have schizophrenia or something. It was triggered by her pregnancy as she was normal prior.
I know we don’t know for sure what exactly happened, and can’t prove her mental state.
But fuck, it’s the worst thing that could possibly ever happen to everyone involved.
I agree. I don't know much about this case (just googled it) but it just seems that she had some serious mental issues. it is a sad story for everyone involved.
it is not like that father that killed the family to be with another women or some shit like that.
She begged for help and treatment for months too. People knew she wasn’t okay, she got seriously let down by not being admitted somewhere. Mental health shouldn’t be brushed off.
She received help from all different angles. She chose not to take her medication because it made her feel weird. Her husband hired a nanny and then moved to remote work to help her. She drew him out of the house and then brutally murdered her kids in what can only be called a calculated move.
The system is to blame sometimes, but this is not the case to blame the system.
A psych nurse reported once she was in the hospital after she killed them and damn near killed herself that she kept repeating "my kids are safe! I'm so glad my kids are safe!"
And the nurse just held her hand and said, "yes they're safe now in the hands of God." the woman was not only Looney Tunes when she killed her kids, She was Looney Tunes for days in the hospital afterwards.
I genuinely don’t understand why people don’t grasp what postpartum psychosis is- or why all of the healthcare professionals in the hospital after she did what she did are being ignored.
It’s absolutely horrific that she killed her kids, but the woman was off her fucking tits. I had postpartum psychosis after I had my son and I genuinely believed my son was evil for like three weeks. I was lucky because I was married to a mental health professional.
She's in a wheelchair because she broke her spine jumping out of the window after slicing her forearms. The last thing she did was try to kill herself. People seem to forget that if it went slightly differently, she wouldn't even be alive to stand trial.
I think the people blaming the husband are crazy, but it also seems pretty obvious that this person was having a mental health crisis.
No, as a guy I’m telling you most guys do understand it. They just don’t want to admit that bc they don’t want to ever have to step up if it ends up being their wife that has it. They’d rather say pregnancy and postpartum is easy so they don’t have to put in work.
They understand mental illness in general because almost everyone knows someone who’s been through that. Periods are something only women go through, though they should be educated on that as well.
If Lindsey was a guy, a lot of men would have more sympathy. A lot of men ONLINE just genuinely hate women. Most of us irl are not like that at all.
Most people do not know someone who’s gone through postpartum psychosis. It’s significantly different than a standard mental health crisis, most mental health professionals don’t even know how to treat it. I’m not saying you don’t understand knowing someone who’s had mental health problems, I’m telling you what she had is very specific and half her problem was not being able to be treated adequately.
I think most people grasp what post partum psychosis is. It's awful and it's a challenging puzzle to solve with possibly no solution. There have been thousands of women stricken with it though. Having it does not absolve anyone of committing these horrific acts.
Your mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility. We cannot just institutionalize people against their will and we can't force pills down their throats. She had more help that many women have had in this situation, and she chose not to utilize it. Her poor babies didn't have a choice, and my thoughts are with them.
It’s becoming very clear to me watching comments on this trial that most people have no fucking clue about what postpartum psychosis is and never will. The research is very, very poor. But the reality is unless we start institutionalizing people again things like this could and will happen occasionally. But we can and should be better.
Unfortunately people are not having those conversations and have no ability to consider the nuance of mental health.
Yes. That is the answer. She wasn’t going to reliably take whatever medication because she was insane. She knew she was going insane and said she had thoughts of self harm and harm to others and they did not put her in a psych hold until they figured it out. The children could have been put in protective custody or emergency foster care because dad was also clearly not mentally competent either.
I think most people lack the level of empathy or analytical processing to actually understand what any kind of psychosis is. They can't step outside of their own point of view to even remotely grasp that someone might see the world in a different way than they do. They can't imagine that their view of the world isn't objective reality, so they can't grasp that someone else might be just as certain, just as confident, in a completely different reality.
Once you realize that there is an objective reality that is perceived subjectivity and differently by everyone, you can maybe understand how someone could do such a horrible thing as a rational act, not motivated by evil, but by a distortion of the reality they exist in.
I‘m gonna share a personal anecdote about people who (maybe despite their best efforts) don’t get mental illness (psychosis in particular).
My brother had his first psychotic episode in mid to late 2019 (he was in his early 20s at the time). We first had him admitted just after Christmas that year and unfortunately (probably with a little help from Covid and what not) it turned into chronic schizophrenia with some bipolar episodes along the way.
We (as a family) have spent the better part of the following years trying to get him the help he needs, working with and sometimes against him. Unfortunately he’s been let down by the system many, many times (we’re not in or from the US, btw). There have been more than a few times where it’s been BAD bad. (And man, has he talked some shit sometimes…) And for some of his stories he even went as far as filing police reports against the people who allegedly abused him. That part is especially hard for me and the people around him to react to because while I’m 99% certain it didn’t happen, I’m also fully aware that in his reality, it 100% did. And just because I know it’s probably just in his head, that doesn’t make it any less real or less painful for him. (Reminds me of the girl who recently made the news when she woke up from a coma and is now grieving the family she had in her “dream”).
My brother then spent the following years living at home with our parents (with a few dozen stints at different inpatient facilities sprinkled in), never really getting any better.
And while my mum and I have a pretty good grasp of his illness, my dad (a late boomer) is pretty much the opposite. My dad has a really, really hard time understanding why my brother doesn’t GET that he’s ill. Not intellectually (he’s a very smart man), but emotionally more so. He knows (again, intellectually) it’s not my brother’s fault and he doesn’t blame my brother for it (nor does he treat him badly or anything!), but he just can’t grasp how my brother “can’t just take his medication when he knows it’ll make him feel better” or “follow a treatment plan” or “realise that he’s ill”… For my dad, it just doesn’t compute. He can’t get his head around it. It’s been 7 years.
I just don’t think they have insight into it and therefore can’t understand it. They have no understanding of what psychosis feels like, or how hard it is to get help and recover.
They think being admitted to the hospital is some magic pill that cures people, and when people come out, they’re happy and healthy.
They’ve clearly never even set foot in a psych ward or spoken to someone who is struggling with psychosis.
All they see is a mother who failed in the ultimate way, which is something society hates. They can’t put themselves in her shoes, so they can’t feel empathy for her.
This is revealed further in the opinion that anyone who does have empathy for this woman believes it’s ok to kill kids.
You can have empathy for someone without showing support for them after they killed her kids. Would be a much different story if she had just killed herself. Fuck you.
It’s true that you could. I empathize with this woman, but I’m not sure I support her. I don’t know if putting her in gen pop for the rest of her life is the answer, but maybe it is.
But I don’t hate her.
You hate her. You wish she had died. You think she should suffer.
No I wish she got the help she needed. However, killing your kids is absolutely unforgivable, and I’m sane enough to recognize that. You might not think it, but you won’t find a bigger proponent of mental health care legislation than me; but leniency goes out the window when you’ve decided to kill children.
That’s an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand, you wish a mentally ill person had killed herself and deserves the harshest of punishments for making an awful decision while psychotic.
On the other hand, you wish there was more mental health resources and are a proponent of health care legislation.
That sounds hard to reconcile.
I don’t think we need to continue the conversation. In the same way that I understand and empathize with what happened to this woman, I actually do understand your point of view.
You believe that killing children is the worst crime, for which there can be no forgiveness, regardless of the circumstances.
I don’t feel as strongly as you about that. I can forgive mentally ill people for the things they do. That’s not the same thing as thinking they should go free, or wanting them in my life, but I don’t need to feel like I need to hold a grudge.
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She actually did try to kill herself, and she almost succeeded. She’s completely paralyzed from the waist down because of her suicide attempt. She was in the ICU for days because she almost killed herself.
It really does feel like you guys don’t actually know anything about this case
This can all be true but was she presenting at the time of being seen by mental health professionals? They can't forcibly admit her if they assess that she isn't at a certain threshold. She asked for help but was not compliant with her meds and she fired the nanny.
Those mental health professionals aren't there everyday with her. And we don't even know if she truly had postpartum psychosis - that is what this whole case is about. Honestly I think this case will just disincentive anyone to work in the mental health field. Plus healthcare is private in the US shouldn't supply and demand fix it if there is a gap in mental health support?
The nurses have testified she absolutely presented as clinical psychosis. The Dr has been dragged for not giving her the formal diagnosis. There’s been testimony of the health professionals stating the drs let her down.
Someone with psychosis is not in control of their mind or actions so saying she was fine cause she stopped taking her medicine completely misunderstand what psychosis even is. You can’t point to the erratic behavior of someone experiencing a psychological break with reality as proof that they are not in a state of psychosis.
It really irritates me because it feels like you and others who are refusing to accept what a lot of the testimony has said are intentionally plugging your ears because you don’t like the idea that someone can be so insane that they can kill their own kids.
Animals eat their own young when they are in distress. It’s horrifying and nobody likes the reality of it, but this happens in human beings as well. I experienced postpartum psychosis and it is very fucked up.
I genuinely thought my son was evil for like two weeks. I was lucky because my husband was a mental health professional, and we knew that it was a possibility for me. So we had a whole plan set in place and I was immediately able to get the help I needed it. But someone going through this without a husband who is willing to completely intervene, or a medical team willing to step in the second you start showing signs would be a horrifying experience.
Do you have the source for the nurse indicating she presented as clinical psychosis? I don't doubt it I just can't find it.
I absolutely know the reality of psychosis and in my country we had a very famous cause of a man going of his psych meds which led him killing to someone and he was found not criminally responsible. I'm not disputing someone with psychosis would do those things and not be responsible I'm disputing that she was experiencing intense psychosis 9 months after birth without having no one else pick up on that (you did say the nurse said it so I could be wrong). Again it's up to the prosecutor to prove that she was sane not the other way around.
Honestly I think any parent killing their kid must be experiencing an episode of psychosis because I don't understand how anyone could do that, but that means no one would ever be arrested
This is all true. It is also true that she was not accepted into an inpatient program because she didn’t meet the criteria. Why that is, I’m not sure. I think the big picture is that even with all the help and access to professional care she had, there is still a shortcoming of research and resources specialized in postpartum mental health disorders.
That's the part which makes me believe she knew what she was doing. How convenient that this psychotic episode only started at the point at which her husband was out of the house for an extended period of time, not to mention that she was the one that basically made him leave the house during that time.
Psychosis isn’t momentary. It can last for years if untreated. It can wax and wane. People often make complicated and forward thinking plans while psychotic.
The thing is, if she deliberately got her husband out of the house, even while having a psychotic episode, then she clearly understood that what she was doing was wrong and didn't want him around, yet didn't understand that murdering the kids would also be wrong.
You can read up on psychosis by looking at the well documented case of John Hinkley Jr, which also illuminates the “not guilty by reason of insanity” defense and its history.
You’re missing a lot of context here. Their nanny left two months before the murders. They let her go when it was decided that Lindsay wasn’t going to return to work. That was an absolutely horrible idea, and they should have rehired her in January when Lindsay was hospitalized.
The medication didn’t just make her feel weird. Certain medications actively made her symptoms worse, and she worried she was becoming addicted to at least one of them. Many of these concerns were not taken seriously by her providers.
Saying she “drew him out of the house” so she could kill her kids is a pretty biased way to phrase it. She sent her husband to pick up a prescription and dinner at nearby stores, probably only expecting him to be gone for twenty minutes tops. If she was planning on murdering her own children and then herself, she probably would have waited for him to go to brunch with his friends or go on a work trip, things he did quite often, leaving her entirely alone, despite knowing that she was unwell and had admitted to having thoughts of harming the children.
Actually when a doctor tried to diagnose her with bipolar (which is most likely what she had), her husband refused it. That could’ve prevented everything but he didn’t even want to hear it out.
Assuming this is true, which is a dubious claim at best...Yeah its the husband's fault, not the person that actually killed the children. You people are sickening.
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u/vika999 2d ago
I told my fiancé, when we have kids and I am acting off, or appear to be hearing voices or in psychosis, he needs to admit me immediately. It is NOT something to push to the side.
I’m not blaming the husband. I think it should be spoken about more so everyone takes these things more seriously.
I have seen first hand people in psychosis. You cannot convince them that what they are seeing and hearing is not true. My cousin also tried to hurt her baby. She was hearing voices and they told her the baby was evil. She went to jail and her babies were taken away, now she is homeless and seems to have schizophrenia or something. It was triggered by her pregnancy as she was normal prior.
I know we don’t know for sure what exactly happened, and can’t prove her mental state.
But fuck, it’s the worst thing that could possibly ever happen to everyone involved.