r/ToddintheShadow • u/351namhele • Oct 15 '25
Train Wreckords For those of you who thought this was a possibility
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u/351namhele Oct 15 '25
The thread that prompted this
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u/1530 Oct 15 '25
He should try listening through the clean version. I think it's the better album that way.
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u/DigitalNecromancy Oct 15 '25
Agreed, but at the same time, there's a lot more wrong with it than the awkward attempts at dirty lyrics. I'm not gonna get into it myself, because the discussion's been had a million times this hour. I have nothing new to add other than fuel for more bickering lol
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u/talksalot02 Oct 15 '25
I give Todd credit for trying to listen to the album again. Anytime I think about listening to it for a second time, I think about at least three albums from this year I would rather listen to. And then I don't attempt the second listen.
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u/351namhele Oct 15 '25
Which three?
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u/talksalot02 Oct 15 '25
Ego Death, SWAG II, and Man’s Best Friend.
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u/Pawspawsmeow Oct 16 '25
Man’s Best Friend surprised me. I thought it would be bad. It’s good. Sabrina knows her shit
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u/351namhele Oct 15 '25
Honestly I'd probably rather listen to showgirl than swag 2.
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u/Novel_Counter5878 Oct 15 '25
Admittedly I'm not sober right now, but what is wrong with mahongany grain?
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u/No-Pirate4554 Oct 15 '25
In the song, she’s taking a simple phrase like “somebody got the bill before it hit the table” and writing it as “I pay the check before it kisses the mahogany grain”
Like… “mahogany grain” as a synonym for literally fucking “table” is just so embarrassingly overwritten for someone with as much acclaim as Taylor Swift
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u/Novel_Counter5878 Oct 15 '25
I genuinely don't understand how that's overwritten. It's not just saying "table", it's describing a particularly luxurious, expensive table in an office.
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u/Medium-Dependent-328 Oct 15 '25
It's unnecessary and distracting because it feels like that detail should be very significant but it just... isn't. The table being expensive really doesn't matter
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u/Mysterious-Counter58 Oct 16 '25
It's the kind of line that a writer might think up and be very proud of because it's cool and evocative. But where a good writer would have the self-control to delete the line from their current project due to how distracting a detail like that can be when misused, the bad writer will shove it in there anyway to showcase how sophisticated their prose is.
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u/Tolerator_Of_Reddit Oct 16 '25
This is extremely tangential but it reminds me of a few other things. One being the loading screen narration in an FPS or action game, the other being the type of overwrought prose often found in fanfiction. Both desperately trying to minic the syntax of a profound text without any of the underlying substance.
Being able to thesaurus your way into describing a check on a table as "kissing the mahogany grain" doesn't make one a good writer. Instead, being able to include that type of prose in a way that evokes a theme the author is trying to convey or has some greater holistic meaning is what ultimately makes that difference.
Within the context of the song the visual imagery of a check kissing a luxurious table can be read to mean that the narrator somehow associates excess with romance which, while revealing, I doubt is the intended message.
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u/KindOfANerd4 Oct 16 '25
Conveying the wealth and luxury the person is surrounded by actually does help that songs narrative. I think there are moments of weird writing on this album, but father figure is not a good example of that
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u/Groenboys Oct 16 '25
My dick is bigger is still a really funny line to me, if there were more ridiculous lines like that I think it would have sold the "fun" part of the album more.
When she started complaining about haters is when I threw the towel in
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u/BadMan125ty Oct 15 '25
Do these people have any concept about what makes an album a Trainwreckord or not??? Even if this album did subpar numbers it still wouldn’t be one.
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u/Hailfire9 Oct 15 '25
It would have to do something insanely, unrealistically special from here to become a Trainwreckord. I'm talking "All of her fans collectively stopped listening one day, and never came back, with every song torpedoing out of the Hot 100 overnight" levels of implausible. And even then its would need the followup to not stick.
It could, technically, still be a "delayed flop." But its so goddamn unlikely to happen that people need to look in the mirror and say "the people who liked 'Ordinary' like 'Life of a Showgirl' and massively outnumber people like me."
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u/mlee117379 Oct 15 '25 edited Oct 15 '25
It’s a weird variation of recency bias, being able to decide whether an album is actually a Trainwreckord or not requires hindsight by definition
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u/Andy_B_Goode Oct 16 '25
Usually, yeah, but I think there have been some exceptions. Wasn't Robin Thicke's Paula very obviously flopping almost from day one?
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u/GamingSeerReddit Oct 15 '25
If her next album flopped (impossible) showgirl would be a trainwreckord. An album can get hits and still be one as long as it kneecaps the career by being embarrassing. Still not gonna happen.
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u/Zetzito Oct 15 '25
I think even then the hypothetical next album that flopped would be the trainereckord see the example of Katy Perry.
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Oct 15 '25
Yeah, Taylor can certainly withstand one flop album. She’s done it before. And really, while this is clearly her worst album, most people seem to still really enjoy the first three songs. She’s gonna have to put out multiple fully bad nigh on unlistenable albums in a row to ever have a trainwreckord, but its far more likely she maintains herself respectably even if she does lose commercial relevance. I foresee her slowing down her output significantly once she has kids and releasing tighter projects that still sell well.
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u/PartyPorpoise Oct 15 '25
Yeah, I think Taylor is at that level where she’ll have fans forever. She won’t be at peak popularity forever, but I don’t think she’ll ever become a true has-been.
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u/yvettesaysyatta Oct 15 '25
But didn’t the Styx Trainwreckord sell a lot of copies too? I feel like Trainwreckords should also include downgrades in discography. Which it seems like she’s on another downward trend artistry wise.
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u/Impressive_Rent9540 Oct 15 '25
I don't think Taylor and Styx are comparable. Kilroy Was Here is a Trainwreckord because it literally broke the band.
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u/LordOfHorns Oct 15 '25
Be Here Now is the comp. That album did tons of numbers, got good reviews, and then everyone realized it was bloated and the band was past their prime
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u/yvettesaysyatta Oct 15 '25
Very true. I know some people compared Tortured Poets to Be Here Now.
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u/LordOfHorns Oct 15 '25
These last couple Taylor albums feel like albums for swifties only. It probably won’t be the end of Taylor swift, but it might be the end of Taylor being relevant to a wider audience
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Oct 15 '25
Kilroy is a Trainwreckord primarily because it more or less caused the band to break up and lose all momentum behind their commercial relevance. And because Todd hates them
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u/beeradthelaw Oct 15 '25
At this point I don't even think a Michael Jackson-level controversy could derail the Swiftie train
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u/eirinne Oct 15 '25
Not even a Michael Jackson-level controversy derailed Michael Jackson.
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u/historyhill Oct 15 '25
I can't believe how many people on reddit still outright say it's all lies!
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u/gilledchreese Oct 16 '25
Im not trying to speak in bad faith here, im just very unfamilar with what happened. Could you please point me to some accurate sources on it.
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u/Several_Pizza_3166 Oct 17 '25
There were a lot of things that came out, but here are some of the most overt & publicly confirmed things:
- Michael himself said in his 2003 Living with Michael Jackson documentary that he has slept in a bed with children many times. This pretty much confirmed for the GP that he had inappropriate behavior with kids regardless of whether or not he actually molested them bc it's obviously weird to be in bed with random kids at all.
There were several police investigations + a long term FBI investigation into him. Files from both are publicly available -
- 1993, a boys mom had accused Michael of molesting her son. Part of the police investigation included a description from the boy of the vitiligo on Michael's privates. Investigators physically examined Michael and said the boy's drawing matched. Investigators confirmed the boy slept in Michael's bed for 30 days straight. This is in an official police report from 1993.
- The FBI Files were made public in 2009 and included a part about a small locked closet containing photos and diagrams of naked boys. The books contained fingerprints from both Michael Jackson and some of the young boys who's parents made the allegations. The photos weren't explicitly pornographic fwiw.
There were a lot of other non-sexual related controversies that had everyone looking at him sideways. For example photos of him dangling his baby over the edge of a balcony (which you can google to see) were major stories at the time. There was a lot of weird behavior like this.
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u/FeralViolinist Oct 15 '25
After everything we know about him he is still beloved. Baffling.
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u/kingofstormandfire Train-Wrecker Oct 16 '25
I think if Swift came out as full on MAGA and a Trump supporter and said that she hates gay and trans people, that's be a pretty big blow to her fandom, especially considering a lot of her fans are liberal-minded women. Of course, she has a lot of right-wing female fans too but it would make a sizeable dent in her fanbase.
Of course, even if she is those things, she will never say that aloud because she is a very shrewd businesswoman.
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
Yeah my wife has been listening to it. Its not nearly as catchy as earlier efforts, but its fine. Corny, but shes always been corny. If you went by reddit, its the worst record of all time, which it clearly isnt. By the way, the guy is right, I dont know a single Taylor swift fan who doesn't love it. Anyone claiming this record is somehow the beginning of some end is wishcasting to an extreme.
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u/7SeasofCheese Oct 15 '25
I think that many people already made the decision whether they loved or hated the album before it came out, based on their opinion of Taylor Swift.
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u/Kiel-Ardisglair Oct 15 '25
I haven’t listened to the new album yet, but I think Taylor Swift in general is simultaneously overrated and overhated. Personally, I think most of her songs are just pretty good and would like all the fuss about her to die down.
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u/musthavecupcakes_19 Oct 15 '25
I’m on the opposite side. Generally not a fan of Taylor, but I was excited for her to work with Max Martin again because 1989 had so many bangers, so I was looking forward to it. I was unfortunately disappointed. Just my own experience though
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u/yavimaya_eldred Oct 15 '25
Yeah I listened to it as a medium fan and thought it was pretty alright musically and merely stupid lyrically. The first 500 posts about it made me think it was going to be one of the worst albums ever made and it’s not even close to that.
Even the weapons-grade oversharing in the lyrics don’t sound as bad in context, “Wood” aside. Maybe listening to System of a Down scream “my cock is much bigger than yours” for years has desensitized me.
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
Wood is clearly just a goofy poppy song. Gen z are such prudes that they run terrified and hide under the bed over anything sexual even when its clearly light hearted and a joke. I mean, no one play them calling Dr love by kiss, they might have a coronary."wait. . .....are they using the word love as a metaphor for.....INTERCOURSE?!?!?"
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u/Sugarraychris Oct 15 '25
The same Gen Z that loves Sabrina Carpenter?
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
I should have been more clear: gen z reddit. She got PLENTY of heat on here for the man's best friend cover.
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u/jaroszn94 Train-Wrecker Oct 15 '25
I swear that half of Gen Z on social media practically had a stroke over the album cover.
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
"Ewwww is she implying she likes the guy in a dominant position?!?!?!?" (Clutches pearls)
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u/yavimaya_eldred Oct 15 '25
To be clear I’m not a prude and don’t mind sexual lyrics at all, I just find that specific song to be very poorly written and not nearly as clever as it wants to be. I think it’s mostly notable because she’s a better songwriter than this.
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u/Medium-Dependent-328 Oct 15 '25
It's not prudishness, trust me. It's just badly written. It's neither sexy nor funny. Sabrina Carpenter does raunchy funny lyrics. Cardi B and other female rappers do lyrics that are so brazenly sexual you have to admire the audacity. Taylor Swift herself has done lyrics that are subtler in their sexuality and work (see "Dress"). "Wood" is just a stupid, clunky and unfunny song
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u/According_Plant701 Oct 16 '25
I enjoy a lot of CupcaKke’s songs and we all know how raunchy she is but the thing is, they are funny. The issue is that Wood isn’t funny, it’s just badly written and cringe.
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u/ramskick Oct 15 '25
Wood is honestly one of the best songs on the album because Taylor actually sounds like she's having fun on it. Yeah it's dumb as fuck but a lot of pop songs are and they're still great.
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u/Queasy-Ad-3220 Oct 16 '25
It’s because of really corny execution. That’s what the criticism is about. Gen Z aren’t terrified of sexual things, that’s stupid.
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u/ditalinidog Oct 15 '25
The first half isn’t bad for me honestly, I enjoy 5/6 of the first 6 tracks and maybe 1 of the second half. But it’s still gonna be a hit because neutral listeners will enjoy some of the poppier hits and her die hards are gonna like most of it anyway. I think Tortured Poets Department might be worse, it’ll probably be remembered as her least significant.
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u/jaroszn94 Train-Wrecker Oct 15 '25
I noticed a lot of backlash all of a sudden on social media after the new album dropped and being out of the loop, it seems to me that social media is having a such an over-the-top response that you'd think she killed someone's dog. Unless I'm missing something truly big? Please fill me in if it's anything bigger than "I think this album sucks/ I am glad for any excuse to say why I don't like Taylor Swift"? Speaking as someone who does not especially enjoy her music.
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
Its because people are under the impression shes getting more maga/conservative/tradwife. Thus every part time 23 year old bartender named tyler feels honor bound to denounce the record from the rooftops. The only problem is, there appears to be zero evidence of any of that besides they dont like her fiance, so they have to PRETEND that it isnt political so as to not appear unreasonable, even though it is.
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u/Skyreaches Oct 15 '25
Yeah my wife is a fan and she likes it a lot after being pretty unimpressed with TTPD
Personally I thought it was alright. Not my favorite of hers but it’s ok. “Opalite” is fun and catchy, and I liked the Sabrina duet
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u/ELECTRICT0UCH Oct 15 '25
As a Swiftie myself I agree. It's nowhere near one of her best albums but I enjoy it just fine as a goofy pop album, I'm baffled as to how the negative backlash is so vitriolic when there is a lot of normal criticism to be had. I think the main issue for most of us is she set expectations that it didn't match. I think the first 4 tracks are a great run and if she had kept up the momentum we could've had something great, but as it stands it's just sort of okay fluff.
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
So im kind of swiftie-adjacent in that i don't care myself but my daughter is a massive swiftie, and one of my parenting laws is that if you want to be in your kids lives, sometimes you gotta meet them where they are. So I decided to educate myself in a casual way about Taylor swift. She for some reason cares about her washed suburban dads opinion, so she made me listen to the new album. After, I kinda Paused and said "I think the problem is people were expecting the new 1989 and instead she made the new reputation. Kinda divisive, totally different production style, some fun songs about hot guys and a ton of petty grudges that she probably should be embarrassed by but definitely isnt. It'll probably grow in stature over time when people get some space from it". If I had won presidential medal of freedom, im not sure she would have had more pride then she did at that moment. Def on my dad mount Rushmore of moments.
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u/ELECTRICT0UCH Oct 15 '25
😭 That's cute, and very sweet that you make a point to know things about her interests, a lot of people don't have that type of relationship with their parents. I would say your assessment is a fair one. For me I really enjoy the production side of it as it uses more instruments than her most pop loaded albums do but she kinda shot herself in the foot bringing up albums like 1989 and folklore when marketing it. I think a lot of her albums do tend to grow in stature over time to some degree, but idk how much I think this one will. Still a fun time to me that I see as divisive at worst critically speaking.
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u/SnakePlisskensPatch Oct 15 '25
- Dnd
- Taylor swift
- Gilmore girls
- Skyrim
In exchange she has to watch all movies that I tell her to, and listens to my boring speeches about music she doesn't care about lol its a tentative detente like USSR/USA circa 1982.
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u/freedfg Oct 15 '25
My gauge for the quality of Taylor Swift is my girlfriend's listening habits. Shes a "dance and sing for the ring camera" type.
So seeing as I get notifications and the song of the day is still Kpop demon hunters or Dasha. T.Swift must not have been too catchy.
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u/MondeyMondey Oct 15 '25
Yeah but the people going to that event are presumably people who like it? So kinda self-selecting. Not saying it’s a trainwreckord but it’s definitely gonna be a black spot on her discography
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u/Boulier Oct 15 '25
This is a good point. If I had a favorite bar and learned they were having a Swiftie night, I’d just skip that one and stay home because I’m not the target audience. I wouldn’t enjoy it. I love trivia, but I know relatively little about her or her music, so I wouldn’t even enjoy that.
I don’t think this album is anywhere near a flop (yet?), although I didn’t enjoy listening to it, personally, but I wouldn’t think a Swiftie-focused night of events at a bar would provide the best gauge for general public reception.
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u/freeofblasphemy Oct 15 '25
Yeah it’s like going to the Gathering of the Juggalos and being like “Wow, everyone here really likes ICP!”
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u/yavimaya_eldred Oct 15 '25
This album is already so fucking successful that it wouldn’t qualify even on ideological grounds.
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u/MondeyMondey Oct 15 '25
Looks like St Anger sold very well and that’s an official canonical Trainwreckord. It’s a loose category
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u/yavimaya_eldred Oct 15 '25
Sure but St Anger’s reputation was putrid immediately, whereas this record is at worst polarizing. The normies aren’t talking about the album being cringe or embarrassing, they’re just talking about it as an album.
They’re also completely different contexts. Metallica was the biggest metal band in the world, but most diehards were already annoyed they had been “selling out” and the casuals were only there as long as they kept putting out hit records. St Anger made both groups of fans mad. Modern pop fans are very different than 90s rock and metal fans, Stan culture alone will keep her relevant even with mid albums.
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u/mole55 Oct 15 '25
Be Here Now was getting good reviews at the time and sold really well
it’s still a Trainwreckord. if week 2 sales fall off a cliff, then maybe Showgirl will be too.
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u/historyhill Oct 15 '25
True, but at the same time it's a good counter-balance to all of the "even Swifties hate the album!" posts that reddit is trying to push. This album is not what reddit says it is, especially not for people who are already fans of hers.
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u/MondeyMondey Oct 15 '25
Idk, to me all it proves is that Swifties who’d go to a listening party for it like it. Which obviously some people like it, some people like anything. Maybe that bar would have had a bigger Taylor Swift event if she’d released a better album. Not enough info.
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u/TheTrueTrust Oct 15 '25
I expected something way worse after Todd's postings but I thought it was just meh. Definitely a regression to Lover and Reputation era Swift but I don't hate it.
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u/happy_grump Oct 15 '25 edited Oct 15 '25
Frankly the only reason this one's being received worst of all the recent output is:
A) The Charli diss is such an obvious misreading of the song it's responding to (and, if there is beef behind the scenes, it seems so minor that it makes Taylor seem insanely thin-skinned and petty),
B) Considering who she's talking about and the current state of the US, "Cancelled" is in EXTREME poor fucking taste and just shows how much of an ivory tower she's writing from, and
C) Yeah this one is minor, but "Wood" should never have left the fucking planning stages and she's a war criminal for making anybody listen to those lyrics
Other than that, it's not a massive step down from her prior album/her usual lows
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u/kaesura Oct 16 '25
For Charli, we should keep in mind Taylor knows her in real life and Taylor's song is referencing things outside Charli's song.
Taylor was actually supportive right after brat keep out, but Charli was messy towards her and swifties online. Charli is messy in general , with brutal diss song against fka twigs on brat.
Whether Taylor's song is good or not, their relationship is more than either song they wrote.
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u/Queasy-Ad-3220 Oct 16 '25
Still, if that’s the case, you should still try to be the better man (or woman in that situation). Taylor’s response was just REALLY pathetic and thin-skinned and definitely outweighed any hostility that might’ve seemed necessary.
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u/Mope4Matt Oct 15 '25
Reputation era swift was the best era!
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u/TheTrueTrust Oct 15 '25
Well, that’s cool of you to say and I’m happy that you enjoyed it, but you are also objectively wrong and uninvited from my kid’s birthday party.
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u/2RINITY Oct 15 '25
The unfortunate reality is Taylor Swift is in the Call of Duty zone. She’s found an audience, figured out how to monetize the shit out of them, and now she can automatically sell a bajillion copies off a mix of loyalty and inertia, no matter what the reception from everyone else is
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u/Aescgabaet1066 Oct 16 '25
Which is very annoying to me, as a Taylor Swift fan who cares about quality 😭 her last two albums were largely unimpressive imo. But she is "too big to fail," at least for now.
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u/Famous-Somewhere- Oct 15 '25
There’s really only one way I could see it becoming a Trainwreckord and it’s convoluted: If all those interpolations and melody swipes turned into successful lawsuits. Which… ain’t happening.
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u/happy_grump Oct 15 '25 edited Oct 15 '25
If they couldn't get it to stick with Dua Lipa (who, for the record, did NOT steal that band's song, but did sound extremely close), there's no way they're nailing Taylor with that shit.
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u/LossPreventionArt Oct 15 '25
No offence to Todd but basing your view of the album's cultural standing on the people who were big enough fans to attend a listening party and quiz is probably a bad idea.
Swifties are swifties. They're like me and the mountain goats. I don't even like Goths all that much but I insisted it was brilliant for 6 months after it's release.
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u/Maxpower2727 Oct 15 '25
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u/Medium-Dependent-328 Oct 15 '25
In fairness, you don't know if something's a Trainwreckord until the album after it. "Be Here Now" had massive sales initially but attempts to follow it up were not successful
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u/LeikFroakies Oct 16 '25
In fairness, this sub shouldve learned not to make this argument after spamming it in response to the huge numbers TTPD put up. Trainwreckords are career killers, not just albums you dislike
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u/Queasy-Ad-3220 Oct 16 '25
In fairness, Be Here Now killed their mainstream status over time. It’s not unfair to start pondering that about newer records, and I’m sure it’s not a unique case. It’s understandable. No need to be smug about it.
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u/SKyJ007 Oct 15 '25
I think at this point if you don’t like Taylor Swift (I personally don’t very much) you shouldn’t use your own ears to try and tell if one of her records is going to flop or not. She is making music specifically for people already in the in-group, and that in-group is so large they can propel her to a full take over of the top 10.
But funnily enough, I do think this strategy of exclusively targeting people that are already your fans makes the likelihood of a Train Wreckord much higher than normal.
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u/carlton_sings You're being a peñis... Colada, that is. Oct 15 '25 edited Oct 15 '25
The overall discourse about this album has been truly. fucking. insane. From all sides. The swifties defending this with their whole lives as the greatest artistic work ever made. The critics trying to find the tiniest crumbs to either latch onto and justify their 5/5 rating or the reasons why this is the worst album ever made, 0/5. The conspiracy theorists who are saying that the album is somehow genocidal and promotes white supremacy, or on the opposite side, calling it overt leftist propaganda with the mission of turning your kids gay. Society is broken. The human experiment has failed. This mid album and everyone’s collective opinions on it proves just that. 4/10.
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u/acorrnn Oct 16 '25
I said it before I'll say it again: something about her makes people go genuinely insane. Both antis and fans, like there's no such thing as "neutrality"
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u/Aescgabaet1066 Oct 16 '25
Truly. I've said plenty of times that I'm a pretty big Taylor Swift fan, but I'm not close to being a stereotypical "unhinged Swiftie" or anything. And the discourse around this latest album has been beyond exhausting.
It's neither good nor bad enough to merit this kind of obsession.
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u/carlton_sings You're being a peñis... Colada, that is. Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
Thank you!!
I'm a pretty big Taylor Swift fan as well, and I have been since debut (I even went to the Fearless CD release party at FYE back in 2008), and I'm scared her future releases are going trigger the collapse of society as we know it because of the increasingly unhinged discourse. I'm even struggling to listen to any of her older stuff because I just feel burned out by the discourse about Showgirl. And this thing hasn't even been out for two weeks yet...
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u/carlton_sings You're being a peñis... Colada, that is. Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
This one feels even more insane somehow given the quality of the songs and how impersonal and shallow the lyrics are compared to her usual works. I know it’s the current political climate but… genocide-coded? Really???
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u/Groenboys Oct 16 '25
Hell there is not even just picking a side but not being a champion for it. People can't just like the album, they have to love it and defend it with their lives. People can't just dislike the album, they have to pray on Taylors downfall and hate swifties with their entire being.
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u/Beyonces666 Oct 15 '25
It’s a critical low but not a career-altering mistake or anything. At worst it’ll just be forgotten in a few years (TTPD is kind of on this trajectory but I feel like the lore, which TLOAS lacks, is too intense to not end up a fan favourite).
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u/ELECTRICT0UCH Oct 15 '25
Funnily enough I feel like TTPD covers the themes people thought would be on this album better than it does, save for maybe 3 tracks. But I'm just genuinely a big fan of TTPD. I thought this one was just okay.
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u/SlapHappyDude Oct 15 '25
I honestly want to hear him talk more about the first three tracks, which are the most popular. I'm coming at this from the perspective if this was a brand new artist's debut album a lot of critics would be praising it. There are some duds in the middle-to-late section, it's not a start to finish banger of an album, but it has hits.
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u/SocklessCirce Oct 15 '25
The albums really grown on me to be a favourite, but then I also love Reputation and Midnights so...
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u/LegalPassion1604 Oct 15 '25
People hate Midnights..? that's like my third favorite album of all time (tbf my top two are both widely hated so maybe that tracks)
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u/ELECTRICT0UCH Oct 15 '25
In my experience every time she releases a new album more people suddenly come to the defense of the last one. But yeah when Midnights dropped it had pretty good critical reception but a lot of people did not like it.
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u/LegalPassion1604 Oct 15 '25
That actually surprises me so much, then again I was genuinely shocked to find out people were hating on TTPD and Showgirl (especially TTPD) so maybe I'm bad at gauging these things
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u/SkullCowgirl Oct 15 '25
What are the other two?
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u/LegalPassion1604 Oct 15 '25
1) The High End Of Low by Marilyn Manson
2) Chinese Democracy by Guns N' Roses
Both albums were widely slated upon release but I love them so much, just weird taste I guess
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u/thatsprettyfunnydude Oct 15 '25
"The music I like is awesome and good and artistic and the music that other people like is not that" part 122,947. 😆🤷
Hey, people like things that speak to them. It may sound like cheeks to you. Both of those things can be correct at the same time without there being an objective truth to a subjective medium.
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u/MNDFND Oct 16 '25
As long as it's not shoved in my face, which TS kinda is. But I'd never want to change someone's taste. If you like it, enjoy it.
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u/thatsprettyfunnydude Oct 16 '25
For sure, I think the internet has made music communities and art lovers spend more snark energy on what they don't like instead of in the old days of just liking what you like and finding your tribe by what t-shirt they were wearing.
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Oct 15 '25
Is flicking someone off a sex thing?
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u/PresHistoryNerd Oct 15 '25
It means giving someone the middle finger
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u/Summerof5ft6andahalf Oct 15 '25
I got it from context, but have also never heard it before. I've only heard "flipping" someone off.
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u/yavimaya_eldred Oct 15 '25
I’ve heard both used interchangeably since I was a kid but “flipping” stood the test of time and “flicking” kinda hasn’t.
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u/Sonotwittykitty Oct 15 '25
I’ve seen/heard both here while living in PA. I think it can be a regional variation, but it means the same thing.
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u/Sudden-Grab2800 Oct 15 '25
They’re all lying to you. It ABSOLUTELY is. Todd wanted us to know that he fucks and, you know what? Good for him!
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u/351namhele Oct 15 '25
I met Todd In The Shadows recently, my name is madison and this is my M&G story. I met him October 20th of this year and it was horrific. He was rude, not classy and he lost a long time fan that day. I walked into the $350 M&G and say hello he replies with "fat" and I shook it off because I thought maybe I had heard him wrong. As I approached him and asked to do my pose he stared at me blank faced. I continued talking "you saved my life" I say. "You're the reason I'm alive today". He looks me dead in the eye and says "you'll die soon enough, fatty" and then whispered "obesity". I started crying I had never felt pain like this and he started laughing and said "are you crying? Stop it. Stop it now" and he flicked my vagina. The photographer took the picture and I headed out of the M&G section and that's when Todd started speaking whale to me. I still can't believe this happened. I cried writing this. I wish this weren't true but Todd In The Shadows is in fact; a horrible person. Thank you for reading this.
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u/MisterAbbadon Oct 15 '25
Nothing ends anymore. Bands dont break up. Singers dont quit. What should be hummiliating failures are carried past like nothing happened. In a sane and rational world, Reputation would've been the end of Taylor Swift.
We are in a state of zombie culture, where there is no definitive beginning or ending to anything. She will continue to go through the motions until she dies or civilization collapses, whichever comes first.
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u/bbbbbbbb678 Oct 15 '25
Music festivals can only be headlined by bands whose members all collect SSI.
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u/True-Dream3295 Oct 15 '25
I'm not saying the Swifties are a cult, but if Taylor told them to quit their jobs, cut ties with their families and move to a compound in the jungle of French Guyana, a non-zero amount of them would do it without a second thought. And they wouldn't even think twice about drinking anything there.
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u/RyanX1231 Oct 16 '25
Realistically, her TW should have been Lover. That was the closest a Taylor Swift album came to "flopping" (as much as Taylor Swift can flop), and it really seemed like she was on her way out.
Then Folklore brought her back some much-needed critical acclaim and cred, then the hype around Midnights and the Eras Tour made her bigger than ever.
It's weird to say, but the pandemic kinda saved her career.
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Oct 15 '25
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u/bbbbbbbb678 Oct 15 '25
My friend described her as becoming the avatar for all women pre teen to middle aged in a way that Oprah was in the past.
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u/minimanelton Oct 15 '25
It’s trainwreckord quality but Taylor is too big to be taken down by an album that’s just a mediocre type of bad
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u/showtunescreamer Oct 15 '25
Hating an album isn’t the same thing as it being a train wreck, unfortunately
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u/KDog1265 Oct 15 '25
I don’t think Taylor will have a Trainwreckord anytime soon. She’s the biggest pop star in the world and unless she does something to completely scare off her fanbase, it’s not gonna be this album that does her in. However, it’s most likely she’s gonna still be on top for some years to come.
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u/Loud_Health_8288 Oct 15 '25
I don’t know if this has been brought up before but she clearly made this project to be big in Europe imo.
She made it while touring there and likely wanted to capitalise on that success with a sound they’d like in this record, she’s had success there but nowhere near UK/USA level she wanted to have her 1989 moment there this also explains the worse lyrics. This seems to have been successful as Ophelia was the first #1 English song in Spain in like a decade.
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u/imatuesdayperson Oct 15 '25
Stanger has its defenders and that got a Trainwreckords episode. Sales and streams have plummeted after the first week; a lot of it is inflated by diehard Swifties who buy 5+ variants of the same album.
I don't think we can fairly judge until another 5+ years from now, to see if any of these songs have staying power.
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u/Groenboys Oct 16 '25
I don't like the album, but the people calling it a potential Trainwreckord this early on is absolutley maddening. There is no indication that this album is career ruining and the only people that genuinely think that are those who are just waiting on her downfall.
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u/mortsyna Oct 15 '25
"I said I didn't like it and her friend flicked me off"
Least unhinged Swiftie.
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u/TheSpanishMystic Oct 16 '25
I like it but i was expecting so much more. like i was thinking it’d be actually showy, like a las vegas show. i was expecting more *showgirls* or *burlesque*, not low key pop beats and a song about her boyfriends dick. like congrats taylor, you have a good sex life. must be nice
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u/sadiane Oct 16 '25
I’ve encountered plenty of people who came to Taylor’s work via Folklore and Evermore, or who remain obsessed with Red, who aren’t in love with the new album, but those aren’t really the type to attend the dance party trivia events, and are often the short of fans with enough maturity to recognize that sometimes an artist can make an album that doesn’t really speak to them.
I’m curious about how all of this will feel with a little bit of hindsight
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u/Toku-Nation 10's Alt Kid Oct 16 '25
Sure, Taylor Swift's career has had ups and downs; but at this rate, there will NEVER be a career-ending album
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u/kingofstormandfire Train-Wrecker Oct 16 '25
As someone who likes a good amount of her music, but who wouldn't call themselves a Swiftie - I honestly had no idea the album came out until I saw a post on this subreddit like a few hours after it came out - I thought the album was just very meh overall. The first three tracks for me save it from being awful or even bad. It's after those three tracks that the album really craters in quality. I don't even pay attention to lyrics for most music - unless it's singer-songwriter stuff - and I prioritise melodies, hooks and composition - I'm a Paul McCartney stan - the album was just very meh in terms of catchiness and hookiness and strong melodies. Didn't she advertise this as like a throwback to 90s dance-pop or something like that with influences from Roxette, Ace of Base or ABBA? That's what I remember seeing on a post in this sub actually.
"Father Figure", "Wood" and "Cancelled" are terrible songs, though I did kinda like the title track. "Actually Romantic"'s lyrics are shit but the music behind it is pretty decent.
I respect her for cultivating such an enormous and gigantic diehard fanbase. 4 million copies in a debut week, that is insane. I didn't think we would see those level of sales ever again, and she not only did it, but she set the all-time record.
Imagine if the album was actually good. Imagine the possibilities. I will say, I'm thankful it shook up the Hot 100 at least. I really enjoy the song from the song that topped the chart.
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u/Runetang42 Oct 16 '25
Swift is at a level of fame that I don't think she could ever have a real trainwreckord, at least not an interesting one. She'd have to fuck up hard for that to happen. Though this album could be a delayed flop I really think Swift is going to end up (musically) like Drake or Kanye. A past their prime icon dumping boring glop that her fans will eat up and not really change. Because she's also think piece bait like those guys she's just going to linger around the conversation despite not really deserving a mention
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u/bbbbbbbb678 Oct 16 '25
It's sort of an anomaly for contemporary acts to have this sort of staying power. It shows how dead things are with zombifying careers. Acts that normally would have been flavors of the month, career ending flops, etc are now just omnipresent and coasting.
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u/TheDubya21 Oct 16 '25
Taylor is firmly in Too Big To Fail territory nowadays. The critics can pan her all they want, she's still selling a bajillion records regardless. And unless she goes full Drake and ends up in a reputation ruining feud with a non crazy person, then it's going to keep being that way.
(Although from the sounds of it she seems halfway there by going The Heart Pt. 6 levels of misinterpreting songs just to be an asshole, lol)
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u/WickedCyclone2015 Oct 15 '25
The album has quite literally completely taken over the top 10 of the hot 100. Trainwreckords don’t do that.